if they dont stand up and say anything isnt that because of the fact they wear one in the first place?

If the only reason that any woman would cover up to that extent is to avoid unwanted male attention, what does that say about you and your people? also assuming women have desires too why dont the men wear them as well.

if they dont stand up and say anything isnt that because of the fact they wear one in the first place?

If the only reason that any woman would cover up to that extent is to avoid unwanted male attention, what does that say about you and your people? also assuming women have desires too why dont the men wear them as well.

Bravo - kick your sisters when they're down.

What kind of brother or sister are you. Sure, it was be better for them if they did, but why ask such a dumb question as whether they care about islam or not?

People say that they choose to wear them.
Maybe they do. After all nothing covers the bruises up off a wife beater better than a burqa

They are wearing one in order to withdraw from society and not engage in politics.

There have been a few cases of men pretending to be women in burqas to rob banks and jewellers. The ban could be justified on crime prevention grounds, and to protect the women from the fear and hatred they arouse with what they wear. And to protect the Muslims who like this sort of thing from the hatred and fear they arouse. It is for YOUR protection too.

Show me the verse in the Koran where it says: "Allah commands women to go around wearing black binbags."

To answer the question: "Do veiled women care about Islam?", I would say no. The converts who do so only care about indulging their female neurosis when they drop out of the rat race of making men want to have sex with them to wearing a black binbag to proclaim that they no longer care about this sort of thing.

The Koran commands that we do not strut about [drawing attention to ourselves] or pray ostentatiously.

Think upon this and ask yourselves why these women do what they do when they know that they are hated more when they beetle around in black.

It is a kind of defiance and pride in being ostentatiously Muslim, designed to cause hatred and fear to non-Muslims whom they think wil go to hell anyway.

If they cared about Islam they would wish to show why it is a good thing for them and to suggest it might be a good thing for non-Muslims too.

But these unthinking and mistaken women care nothing for others or for Islam while they make themselves stand out for being alien and alarming to others whom they already know dislike them and their religion.

"I know a number of sisters who wear the niqab and not a single one seems to have come forward and raised her voice to shut the voices of Islamophobic hate mongers who are using them to vilify Islam".

The whole point of wearing the niqab, and this is exactly what it is designed or, is that the women inside remain secluded, comnication is shunned and identity hidden. How do you expect niqab women to assert themselves when the very item of clothing they are defending prevents them from doing so in the first place?

There does not need to be a verse in the Qur'an as the sources of Islam are the Qur'an and the Sunnah. The commandment for the hijab itself IS in the Qur'an, but there is a difference of opinion regarding the niqab itself, although many scholars regarded it as compulsory and all regard it as recommended. "It's not in the Qur'an" is always the trump card of people who want to pull veils off women; it's a give-away of an ignorant person.

As for veiled women and politics, there are definitely a few involved in the HHUGS/CagePrisoners fraternity and I always saw a few at the anti-war demos.

In Islam men and females are both given a dress code which both men and women must adhere to. The cover up is ut of modesty and sense of identity! Women wear the Hijaba nd Niqaab to present themselves as modest and also show that they are prod of being Muslims! This shouldn't stop them from standing up for their rights! You use speech and intelligence to defend yourself and seek your rights it is stupid to suggest that just because someones face isn't visible, they are somehow UNABLE to defend themselves! GET REAL! GET SOME SENSE! MUSLIMS SHOULD AND INSHALLAH ONE DAY WILL DEFEND THEMSELVES BEING JUST WHO THEY ARE AND WEARING JUST WHAT THEY WEAR!

Very well put. Totally agree.

Am I the only one who finds this offensive and patronising towards Muslim women?

Firstly, the assumption is that Muslim women that wear the niqab are somehow themselves to blame for this Islamophobic attack on them because they don’t “speak out and tell us whether this is the case or not”.

Is that how we in the Muslim community deal with the victim of racism? The victim has brought it on themselves and therefore they are responsible. Thus taking away any form of responsibility from the attacker? Next time someone has a go at me in the street for wearing my hijab I guess I shouldn’t get angry with the person attacking me or expect others to defend me, after all it’s probably my fault for not walking around telling people why I wear it rather than just getting on with my life not hurting anyone else. If we follow this logic we would stop campaigning against climate change because after all it’s those people in Bangladesh who are suffering and it’s their fault for not speaking up before hand! Does anyone else think this position is unacceptable?

Secondly, maybe he hasn’t spoken to many Muslim women because I can tell him we’re involved in a number of political campaigns up and down the country.

I can remember when Jack Straw made his comments on this topic and a demonstration was called outside his surgery. I’m proud to say the majority of people the turned up were Muslim sisters, many of whom wore the niqab. As chair of stop the war I was invited to speak but I’m proud to say that there were so many local women wearing the niqab who spoke so well before me that I was left with very little to say on the topic.

And you only have to look at the many demonstrations, fund raising events, solidarity and awareness raising campaigns that take place as a result of the consistent and tireless work done by Muslim sisters as well as being students, workers mothers etc.

Maybe the problem isn’t that Muslim sisters aren’t political and therefore don’t speak up but on the contrary, we’re too busy being political and turning our politics into actions to really have time to “talk about ourselves and how we dress”.

Is it to much to expect to just be able to get on with our lives without being attacked for the way we dress? Surly living in a tolerant society we should be able to dress and live our lives in any way we choose without being attacked for not explaining the choices we make to others?. Or must we continue to play into the attacker’s hands and accept that it’s our fault for not explaining ourselves better?

Finally, when others are attacking a tiny minority within our community is it too much to ask that our Muslim brothers not take this opportunity to attack them as well less we forget who the real enemy is?

As far as I am concerned, Yusuf Smith, the Koran is good enough.

If the Koran is the Word of God, then the Hadith is Man's interpretation of the Word of God and therefore a secondary source, compared to the primary source that is the Koran.

If therefore the Koran is the equivalent of saying "All animals are equal", then the Hadith is the equivalent of saying "but some animals are more equal than others".

The Islam of the Koran is good enough. Do not try to improve upon perfection by over-egging the pudding with the Hadith.

Maybe that is why Muslims remain in such a mess despite their perfect religion.

They like sticking to their irrelevant considerations and justify the practice of something irrational and useless with the excuse that their ancestors did it too - something the Koran has warned against.

It is just as much a sin to forbid what God has not forbidden as it is to allow what he has forbidden.

It is time some people questioned the relevance of the Hadith to modern life.

The Hadith is confined by time, geography and local custom, while the Koran is eternal and universal.

The Koran enjoins us to dress modestly and to speak to the wives of the Prophet behind a curtain. The burkha became this wearable moving curtain.

The wives of the Prophet have been long dead. The ones who like to pretend they are the wives of the Prophet are as deluded as the ones who like to pretend they are the brides of Christ.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it before calling anyone ignorant, Yusuf.

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Nahella, please do not accuse me of racism simply because you disagree with me. I do not have a racist bone in my body and admire your religion precisely because it is anti-racist and anti-tribal.

If I say that a woman who walks around in a short skirt in a high-crime neighbourhood when it is dark and late should not be too surprised to be mugged and raped, I do not say she should be mugged and raped, merely that if she had any sense she would not behave so recklessly and then complain that the world is full of horrible people who would exploit the situation she has created.

The same principle applies to Muslim women who like wearing their burkhas. They should not be surprised when they find themselves hated, the way someone going to Saudi Arabia should not be too surprised by the local reaction if they go around in shorts and a revealing top. The offence that is caused remains the same even if the means of causing offence are different.

When in Rome ...

I am just a little surprised that so many of you don't get it, or pretend not to get it.

Let me just say this: putting on the burkha is the equivalent of tattooing your face and sticking all sorts of metal objects into your face.

You may think it is different because you do it for religious reasons, but the degree of fear and loathing is the same.

Now, why would you wish to drag your religion of reason and perfection into the mire merely because some of you have an obsession about going around wearing black binbags, thinking you will get into Jannah quicker if you do?

You do your religion a disservice, and cause others to hate you and your religion.

For the protection of sensible Muslims and the good name of their religion, I would ban the niqab today if I could.