Well Done guys for highlighting this issue.I pray the

muslims do 'finally' become unified through peaceful

political engagement in this country,to ensure

justice prevails in the land globally and sovereignty

is only for the Creator.Well done HT for finally

taking steps in the right direction.

Hizb ut-Tahrir has a history of behaving irresponsibly on university campuses. They have many absurd views and are responsible for deterring vast numbers of Muslims from voting in elections. I would rather see Muslim students uniting against this group. They are an absolute liability.

the issue here is the HT bend their rules, its not ok for Muslims to vote in a democracy becuase of legislation...errr it is ok for students to vote for us, because errrr....

well because!

The article is full of ignorance as are some of the comments that follow it.

HT has never stated that voting in itself, as a way of electing, is wrong. In fact it stipulates that a first past the post system can be utilised to appoint a khalif.
The issue is what you are voting for and in. To vote for someone to legislate on your behalf is clear cut kufr as you are attributing something that Allah(swt) has reserved exclusivity over. Hence voting for an mp to represent you and so make up the legislature is clear cut kufr.
Running to stand for ISOC president, a role which is administrative and not legislative, is perfectly fine.
In fact the Prophet(Saw) mentioned, "When three persons go on a journey, let them put one of their number in command." (Abu Da'ud on the authority of Abu Sa'id)

This persons role is limited the running of the ISOC.

Ignorant piece of writing at best, disingenuous at worst.

HT also work for the ummah in their own way. I respect their opinion re. elections, although i do not agree with their argument based on the lesser evil principle. As long as someone is trying to work for the ummah it makes no sense to stand against them. Thats a bad attitude to hold.

That's a lie and Insha-Allah, this post coming from many will post details of that lie. Hizbit Tahirir did members did say no to voting.

Countless times. In fact, Hizib are the thorn in this political process in which Muslims didn't vote.

The ballot is a bullet. It's a strategy. Use it as that.

But no, first we hear no to voting.

Then someone in Hizib goes for it and now, it's..

"Oh no we didn't say this but said, if you vote for a kafir then this is wrong.."

If you think ISOC and whatever they do, and stepped into is limited...THEN you got no friggin idea whatsoever the power behind universities.

That's the place where minds are shaped. That's where the world begins...in school, college and university.

That's where leadership needs to be shown and where power and the might of our Lord should be revealed by sheer leadership example.

Where else you can do that? Eh?

Your crummy job, working for a kafir? As an average joe citizen who just votes and that's it? Thinking it all be alright.

You got it wrong about politics from day one. It is a strategy, a process and it doesn't start or stop at the ballot.

That's the point you missed and maybe you should liberate your mind on this point.

I have to say, people are now so confused with HT...it's ridicolous. One minute...you're not allowed to vote, and next minute...you can but not for a kafir.

To 'Whatever'

The Hizb has never said that it is haram to vote per se. However it does say voting for a non islamic party which has legislitive power is haram.

Another thing, even many non muslims are fed up with the corrupt political process so the majority of them dont vote because they know no real change will ever happen.

I find it quite funny that people from mpac say the Hizb has no real influence amongst the muslim community and then say it is the Hizb which prevents the muslims from voting, which means that the hizb infact does have real influence within the community.

Also mpac seem to be infactuated by the hizb since it is always criticising them. When was the last time you saw the hizb have a go at mpac on their website.

yes they have, they have only changed their positon recently.

you are uninformed or lying. either way, unforgivable.

@ the comment posted by 'liberator'

well why don't you get involved in the political system and get people to vote for you???? Numbskull

What kind of gibberish is this ?

Again the pathetic fools at Mpac cannot tell the difference between their right and left hand. As Liberator stated the position of Isoc is completely different to that of an MP, one is purely administrative and the other is belieivng in and up holding kufr laws. It is as different as chalk and cheese. That is the problem with Mpac they don't know the difference between right and wrong.

watever - learn to string a sentence togther then post on this forum beacuse i cannot make heads or tails of your post.

voting to run a student organisation is hardly comparable to running government or implementing laws of the land. Mpac scrapping the barrel again what a pity reminds me of the daily mail.

I have already passed the info to ppl abt Sri Lankan Muslim Cultural Centre UK,

Asalamalaikum

Dear brothers from MPAC, arguing back and forth through the internet only deepens the divisions of the ummah and serves only the agenda of our enemies. I ask you, did you consult HT on why they allow student elections and refuse to participate in other elections? Or did you simply seek to slander them. The argument as it seems to me falls on whether the elections lead to legislation. The student election did not where as other elections do. The MPAC argument is that they feel the HT are bending their rules. That is where the issue lies...i urge you to meet and discuss with sincerity...and finally, for the sake of fareness to our brothers in HT, this article should be withdrawn until clarified...think about your own afterlife brothers...do not be amongst the slanderous

Hye Ive been on that Khilafah website (Ill get arrested now by MI5) but it seems to me they more against certain Muslims than they are speaking up for injustice. On one of the articles it says Muslims of Pakistan reject democracy before threatening certain politicians. How is that going to solve anything?

thats just talkng about levels. And voting is democracy and as HT tell everyone democracy is haram.

student ISOC or National elections. the principles of democracy are the same.

HT are hypocrytes.

voting is allowed in islam voting for man made systems is not. Mpac please learn basics of islam and refrain from slandering other muslims we have enough lies to deal with from neo cons like civitas and policy exchange!

Firstly, Those that are throwing insults around ands not speaking with the islamic adhaab are not doing themselves any good, seems like you are insincere and here just to hate.

Secondly, Islam doesn't reject voting, the caliph will be voted, HT members vote for their exec committee, isocs vote for their presidents, we vote for a team leader when we have group presentations at uni, we vote for a course representatives at uni.

Democracy-definition is laws that are for the people, by the people, of the people....or 'render unto ceasars what is ceasars and render unto god what is god's.'

Islam-definition is laws BY Allah, for the people.

theres a stark difference.

just because we have voted for something or someone in a certain position does not make it a democratic- as democracy is not just about the voting process.

Thirdly, if you disagree that the root of enjoining in Quraishy like politics is haraam,why don't you practice what you preach?, why don't you go join the police force and see how far you get, why don't you start becoming a politician, or a lord and see how far you get, maybe you'll get further than lord ahmad who has been arrested for talking on a mobile phone, while MP's and lords who break the law by trying to change it with money and get way with it, with a mere apology, and maybe when the discussion of anti terror laws is taking place, and all the muslim MP's were 'coincidently absent', maybe you'll be there...lets see how far you get and then you can come back to us all and tell us how successful you were.

How did we find this out is he openly a member or is it stipulation?

alhamdullilah theres still sense among the ummah we should all take a lesson from the sisters kind words and if its true why would you highlight the fact that the brother has been elected if his intention is to do good for the ummah surely you have undermined him in this article

demo = people
cracy = power

you clearly do not know the meaning of democracy yet you are against it. ironically you are for it, when it comes to voting (democracy) for a HT candidate?

in regards to the two quotes...

Abraham Lincoln made the Gettysburg address...that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government : of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth'

notice the UNDER GOD part...

and render unto Ceaser...is a quote from the Bible. nothing to do with democracy.

Fricken illiterate HT quote monkey

to kermit,

I can see you like to throw insults around.

I'm not even a HT member and I got that quote from Imam Anwar Al Awlaki's talk! we are being governed in a secular country hence the quote.

like I said why don't you practice what you preach?, why don't you go join the police force and see how far you get, why don't you start becoming a politician, or a lord and see how far you get, maybe you'll get further than lord ahmad who has been arrested for talking on a mobile phone, while MP's and lords who break the law by trying to change it with money and get way with it, with a mere apology, and maybe when the discussion of anti terror laws is taking place, and all the muslim MP's were 'coincidently absent', maybe you'll be there...lets see how far you get and then you can come back to us all and tell us how successful you were.

and refrain from writing abuse on these pages.really annoys me.soo insincere in this discussion.

to brother islam

voting is allowed in islam, voting for man made systems is not. Thats my end point

and thats the part that makes you a HT quote monkey!

as to the why don't you...

don't be silly this is a comments section and you dont know who i am and I dont know who you are.

however judging by your ability to quote without thinking, it is no surprising that you can be told that their is a difference between one type of voting and the other.

to extend HT's argument to its logical conclsion. No ISOC is in an Islmaic state therefore voting in an ISOC election confirms that the Kufr non Islamic education ( a secular education system and education legislation), is endorsed over Allah's rule of an Islamic education system. You are now endorsing free mixing, the acceptance of gay and Lesbiansocieties, the student funds given to Zionist groups...lions, tigers and bears oh my.

The argument is an extention of the not voting in democracy (which HT have said is haram). If you can't see the extension its because you are to stupid.

HT have contradicted themselves and are not consistant when it comes to their own fatwas, strategy or principles.

Astakfarillah MPAC makes me sick how can you do such a thing of baiting up another brother to the kuffar, have you not heard of brotherhood in islam?

MPAC should be accounted and this should be taken down
Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: 'And Allah will surely help the person as long as he helps his brother.'

the Prophet said:
'Don't exchange hatred, envy or forsaking, for every Muslim is a brother to other Muslims. Thus he should not wrong him, nor surrender him, whoever walks to fulfill the needs of other Muslims, Allah will attend to his needs.'

Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) pacified her saying: 'You should have said only, same be upon you also, for the Muslim is not an offender, nor a curser nor a mischief monger nor one who uses dirty language.'

Qur'an: 'And cooperate with one another in all that is good and pious and don't cooperate in sin and aggression.' (Al-Ma'idah: 2)

'He who slanders others in front of you will eventually slander you.'

read these hadith and learn!

Astakfarillah MPAC makes me sick how can you do such a thing of baiting up another brother to the kuffar, have you not heard of brotherhood in islam?

MPAC should be accounted and this should be taken down
Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: 'And Allah will surely help the person as long as he helps his brother.'

the Prophet said:
'Don't exchange hatred, envy or forsaking, for every Muslim is a brother to other Muslims. Thus he should not wrong him, nor surrender him, whoever walks to fulfill the needs of other Muslims, Allah will attend to his needs.'

Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) pacified her saying: 'You should have said only, same be upon you also, for the Muslim is not an offender, nor a curser nor a mischief monger nor one who uses dirty language.'

Qur'an: 'And cooperate with one another in all that is good and pious and don't cooperate in sin and aggression.' (Al-Ma'idah: 2)

'He who slanders others in front of you will eventually slander you.'

read these hadith and learn!

Kermit,
so this is what you mean by another HT quote Monkey...


taking quotes out of context to silence critism of HT's hypocracy.

love the name, HT Quote Monkey.

I cannot believe that MPAC has posted such a thing on their website! To sell out someone from the Ummah like that, its an all new low! From now on, everytime I see someone from MPAC i will try my hardest to spit on them just like they have spitted on the brother they have sold out!

No-one actually cares very much about either HuT or MPAC.

However, it is hilarious to see quite how much both these organisations think of themselves and (inevitably) how little they think of each other.

Popular Front for the Liberation of Judea, anybody?

Nah, splitters!

Grow up, the pair of youze.

Ah, how nice. HT get some taste of power and immediately the quote monkeys gather to contextualise all this, brandishing their usual collection of dodghy ahadith and associated opaque religious snippets.

O HT (to borrow some of their pseudo-Islamic style)! Recall the Axiom of Acton:

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Not that HT would, actually, know anything of either - being an utter irrelevance to one and all.

I don't know how they sold anyone out? They are just asking a question, how a HT brother can get involved yet continue to say that voting is Haram?

salamz.honestly....from a complete humane point of view...MPAC???YOUR OBJECTIVES BEING? aggressors and slandering is all you've illustrated, an ounce of your own conscience will have the truth embedded, and exactly that is what's causing the current guilt and shame you're struggling to come to terms with...ergh how do you turn so bitter in the namme of Islam???may Allah (SWA) guide you...assalamualaikum WRB.

lol,

sounds about the intellectual level of a HT supporter,when you can't win the argument, spit and shout Kufr.

Bad Quote Monkey...no banana!

hey I just found out that there was vote-rigging done by those HT goons. What a disgrace! Muslims cheating in elections and giving us a bad name

Just a reminder that a sign of nifaq is to throw insults and abusive language at your opponent when involved in a debate.

Kermits 'argument' is pathetic. Voting for an ISOC president is not an endorsement of the SU or the educational system within the UK. Prove the link if you think that is the case. If it is proven then yes, it is haram. The principle is not discarded just because the application is inconsistent. But rather than give muslims the benefit of the doubt which is how a muslims treats another muslim, we jump headlong into accusations of hypocrisy which are extremely serious.

It is extremely disingenuous to continue reciting the mantra of 'HT believe voting is haram except for a khalif' as it has never said this. Provide evidence if you are truthful.

OK follow the HT argument.

If you vote for a student soceity that is a component part of the Student Union, then you are voting for a by extension the legitmacy of the SU and all its polciies.

(Following this so far..ridiculous I know, but, this is HT's argument, not mine. But bear with me...)

The SU only exists by the legislation passed by the UK 'Kufr' Goverment, which is 'not' an Islamic goverment and therefore its laws are not based on the Quran or Sunnah.

So therfore you are endorisng man made laws over Islamic ones.

I know its a rubbish argument, and that is why I have nver joined HT, but even a muppet can spot that HT are theologically weak and inconsistant, and when their ideology is used against them, they...YOU, try to wriggle out of it.

any other questions, or do I have to explain it again?

It seems that the HT explanation (doing the rounds in the London colleges) for their blatant rigging of the Westminster Uni election is as follows:

Westminister College elections are of the kufur, therefore it is legitimate to rig these elections so that... erm... HT can win kufr elections.

Hopefully, the HT members responbsible for this electoral fraud will now be expelled from Westminster.

Prove that this is HT's argument. And why do you put 'kufr' in between uk and government in quotation marks? do you believe that they are islamic?

And lastly, what is the 'theological' argument FOR voting for MP's and other positions of legislature?

First of all I would like to point out that he won the election for the Westminster University Students Union not Westminster University. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Secondly, the guy who ran for President is a complete joke. I have personally met him, and I can honestly say that he is not representative of any students, forget Muslim students.

Thirdly, HT are a joke. They are hypocritical, in the sense that they permit things when it suits them. I'm pretty sure if you told them to vote in the General Elections, they would refuse, even if there was a BNP member standing.

Would they have allowed 'voting in a democracy' if a Muslim member was standing in the SU elections, but he/she wasn't part of HT.

Think about it.

you should read Animal Farm, Orwell describes how the pigs keep changing rules to suit themselves. Now I know where HT get their tactics from.

You still havent answered my question. Just illustrated your analogy of animal farm of indoctrination through repetition.

no the analogy is one where the PIGS keeps changing the seven principles at first subtly so no one notices and then overtly.

So when you are me to prove that HT have said don't vote, you are assuming anyone can prove it on a message and that no one will notice the shifting of HT's position.

If you need actual evidence, I suggest you research it, rather then defending Napoleon's dictates (the head pig, in this case HT).

should we even be discussing a rumour?

state ur sources please mpac.

I am so disappointed in this article and in most of these comments, I had a positive view of MPAC before I saw this article, I surely thought that MPAC's mission was to empower muslims.
but how is that possible by slandering a brother(or do you not see him as your brother in Islam?)
I do know the brother you are accusing personally, and he is a good brother who does his best to help everyone.
I am neither a HT member or MPAC member
but I am a brother who will make dua for the ummah to unite.
may allah guide us all ameen