| Terrorist - or just a curious teenager? |
|
|
| Friday, 29 August 2008 | |
|
The conviction of Hammaad Munshi as Britain's "youngest terrorist" – he was a 16-year-old about to take his GCSEs when he was arrested two years ago - marks an appalling new low in the use of section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000 which states:
I argued previously on Cif during the case of the "lyrical terrorist" that this is a vaguely-worded piece of legislation that seeks to criminalise people's thoughts. In effect, it says that if you possess material that teaches you how to make explosives, even if you are just reading it and do not intend to do anything wrong, well, someone else who reads it may - so, er, you are guilty. Let's look at what had Hammaad Munshi is actually said to have done. According to all accounts of the case, Munshi surfed the internet and is said to have downloaded material about the making of napalm and other explosives. He also had "al-Qa'ida propaganda videos" on his PC. So what? That's freedom folks. Just think how many British teenagers have got hold of the Anarchist's Cookbook over the years and how much easier the internet has made it to seek out and read such material? How many of them went on to become terrorists? And if people want to download videos of US army tanks being blasted apart by Iraqi resistance fighters then that is surely their own business, right? Where have all the "free speech" warriors gone now? Note that Munshi was not convicted of any actual plan to carry out a terrorist attack – it is just presumed that that is what he would have graduated to do because the state now wants to have the right to police our minds. Oh, I nearly forgot: "Two bags of ballbearings – described as the shrapnel of choice for suicide bombers - were found in one of his pockets." Well, I suppose there could not possibly be any lawful reason why a person might have some ball-bearings in one of their pockets. In court, Munshi's lawyers tried unsuccessfully to argue that he had collected the internet material out of teenage 'curiosity'. Munshi is due to be sentenced in September and faces up to 10 years in jail. The continuing reluctance of Muslim organisations to speak out forcefully against the malicious use of anti-terror legislation in cases such as this is deplorable. It appears that many of them are either too afraid to raise their voices for fear of being branded as terrorist sympathisers and "fellow travellers" or are worried that they might lose lucrative Preventing Violent Extremism money from the government. They should be ashamed of themselves. For too many young British Muslims like Munshi, the UK has come to resemble a republic of fear. While there is undeniably a terror threat to this country, it is also apparent that this government has been more than eager to exaggerate the extent of the danger posed by people like Munshi in order to generate panic and fear among us. All the better to distract us from the horrific scale of their own misdeeds due to their warmongering abroad. Of course, members of the government who lied to us in order to shore up support for an illegal invasion of a sovereign country that posed no threat to us could never be thought of as terrorists. Source: Comment is free           Readers have left 37 comments.
TARIQ ALAM:
Quote
I went to Iran, Tehran for a hoiliday in 2007, March. I was interviewed by anti-terrorist Police and my house was searched, because they thought i was a terrorist and muslim extremist. I was even working for the MINICTRY OF DEFENCE AND TA SOLDIER.
(1)
2008-08-30 00:45:24
markuk:
Quote
"While there is undeniably a terror threat to Britain, the government has been more than eager to exaggerate the extent of the danger"
I wonder if it was jews or members of the none muslims community planning to blow planes busses and trains up would say its being exaggerated. Why dont you say muslims exaggerate when they claim soldier are over in iraq murdering all the iraqis?
(2)
2008-08-30 00:45:49
joe:
Quote
MAYBE NO ONE WANTS TO SPEAK OUT ON HIS BEHALF COS LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO C.A.I.R. THEY ASSUMED THE PIPE BOMBS IN THE CAR WERE JUST FIREWORKS THEN THE STUDENT ADMITTED IT AND C.A.I.R. GOT EGG ALL OVER THEIR FACE SO BE CARE FULL THIS POOR INNOCENT LAD MIGHT JUST BLOW YOU UP TOO. PLUS NO ONE WILL LISTEN TO A MUSLIM DEFEND ANOTHER MUSLIM AS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO WHETHER OR NOT THE PARTY INVOLVED IS GUILTY OR INNOCENT AS PER HARD TALK WITH ANJEM CHAULDRY THE SPOKES MAN OF ISALMIC LAW.
(4)
2008-08-30 03:23:03
shan:
Quote
As i have said before this labour scum government will by hook or crook get naive young muslims or mentally challenged drug abusers or criminals to look like hardened terrorists to fellow british people.
The threat is being manufactured as required by labour scum. Also as i have stated before if i was given the same powers as british security agencies have then i can bring forward terrorits on a conveyor belt from within the BNP suporters everyday. Having studied previous british governments and their methods one thing is clear they will scapegoat and villify minorities to pass laws,that ha sbeen the case for centuries and some british people will be gullible enough to fall for thsi method everytime.
(5)
2008-08-30 10:40:08
Colin the Athiest:
Quote
The article title: terrorist or curious teenager? I would answer it does not matter, he broke the law. The law is the law. I would like to drive my car at 80mph everywhere, I can't, its against the law and I would be prosecuted if I did. There are laws about downloading child pornography. Someone might be 'curious' and do it, it's against the law and you are going to get prosecuted. Likewise, if you are stupid enough to download terrorist manuals, terrorist snuff movies etc, you are going to get prosecuted, and this guy should be for what he has done.
As for the last paragraph of this article, Mr Bungawala then claims there is an exaggerated fear of terrorism stoked up by the government. So its the government that forced people to plant bombs in London (three times), plant bombs in Exeter, try and blow up Edinburgh airport, plot to kill Gordon Brown, plot to kidnap a solder and take his head off? I'm sorry, that line of argument won't do Mr Bungawala.
(7)
2008-08-30 12:33:20
Kuffar:
Quote
So its the government that forced people to plant bombs in London (three times), plant bombs in Exeter, try and blow up Edinburgh airport, plot to kill Gordon Brown, plot to kidnap a solder and take his head off? — Colin the AthiestColin, the trouble is that many people using this forum believe the above idiocy is true. This is the problem.
(8)
2008-08-30 16:30:12
shan:
Quote
Yes colin the atheist the law is the law so why are white christian/atheist extremists not hunted down the way young muslims are hunted down for using words.
I see on the motorway the the speed is 70 but people are overtaking people who stick to 70 yet i have not seen millions prosecuted for doing more than 70 in a matter of weeks. So the 8 bombs let of by white christian guy or the bombs planted by racists extremist do not show up on your graph,the white guy who blew up a policman with a van bomb does not show up on your radar,there are many more that can be bought by research. As i said before if i have the same powers i woud be able to bring terrorism charges to white christian/racist bigots day in day out. Markuk the racist bigot rears his head again but cannot condemn the racist attacks in quenchwell and belper,more than a million dead iraqis may not register in the mind of racist bigots but it does with humans. as for bombs beng planted in london untill there is a independent inquiry carried i will not beleive a word this government says in light of the lies used to attack and slaughter iraqis period.
(9)
2008-08-30 17:18:24
Zionist Alerted:
Quote
The article title: terrorist or curious teenager? I would answer it does not matter, he broke the law. The law is the law. I would like to drive my car at 80mph everywhere, I can't, its against the law and I would be prosecuted if I did. There are laws about downloading child pornography. Someone might be 'curious' and do it, it's against the law and you are going to get prosecuted. Likewise, if you are stupid enough to download terrorist manuals, terrorist snuff movies etc, you are going to get prosecuted, and this guy should be for what he has done. — Colin the AthiestAs for the last paragraph of this article, Mr Bungawala then claims there is an exaggerated fear of terrorism stoked up by the government. So its the government that forced people to plant bombs in London (three times), plant bombs in Exeter, try and blow up Edinburgh airport, plot to kill Gordon Brown, plot to kidnap a solder and take his head off? I'm sorry, that line of argument won't do Mr Bungawala. Your right it wont do, since if zionist jews in britain were stopped from going over and killing palestinians for sport, or diverting british foreign policy to attack muslim countries none of this would happen. Inayat should focus on the REAL issue - ZIONISM!
(10)
2008-08-30 17:57:22
Khurram:
Quote
"While there is undeniably a terror threat to Britain, the government has been more than eager to exaggerate the extent of the danger" — markukI wonder if it was jews or members of the none muslims community planning to blow planes busses and trains up would say its being exaggerated. Why dont you say muslims exaggerate when they claim soldier are over in iraq murdering all the iraqis? Yes the Zion jews are blowing trains up all the time! - Muslim ones in muslim countries? Or does that not count? ...oh yes you dont like to talk about that do you :) What of the jews involvement in the neocon movement? - that killed a million muslims - want to apologise?
(11)
2008-08-30 18:06:19
markuk:
Quote
Khurram we are talking about the uk. why didnt you say there are zion jew blowing trains up in the uk or none muslims blowing trains up in the uk?
because its doesnt happen. Only muslims do it
(12)
2008-08-30 19:54:10
Colin:
Quote
Thank goodness this particular teenage horror was stopped from carrying out his murderous fantasies, but so awful to have yet another sample of home-grown horrors. The only compensation is that some unknown hero like like Ed Hussein had a hand in catching him. I wonder if Bunglawala has ever done as much, rather than asking us try and understand 'curious' teenage terrorists. I must say that some of the contributors here give me the heeby-jeebies: I only hope they are penning their backward rantings from somewhere far away and not from some nice ghetto in England.
(13)
2008-08-30 21:38:02
Palestinian:
Quote
Khurram we are talking about the uk. why didnt you say there are zion jew blowing trains up in the uk or none muslims blowing trains up in the uk? — markukbecause its doesnt happen. Only muslims do it lol so you admit they blow people up then! - thats a first! A zion scum bag admitting they kill innocents! I bet your pay masters are not going to be happy you let that slip - you might get the sack now andhave to get a real job ??? How much do they pay you to post comments on websites by the way - can i get a job with them?
(14)
2008-08-30 23:41:06
George:
Quote
Thank goodness this particular teenage horror was stopped from carrying out his murderous fantasies, but so awful to have yet another sample of home-grown horrors. The only compensation is that some unknown hero like like Ed Hussein had a hand in catching him. I wonder if Bunglawala has ever done as much, rather than asking us try and understand 'curious' teenage terrorists. I must say that some of the contributors here give me the heeby-jeebies: I only hope they are penning their backward rantings from somewhere far away and not from some nice ghetto in England. — ColinYou mean like Tel Aviv? me too - that way they can greet you with a happy smile next time you go there to kill palestinians and give you a little present :)
(15)
2008-08-30 23:43:25
wendy mann:
Quote
Thank goodness this particular teenage horror was stopped from carrying out his murderous fantasies, — Colinso now having a fantasy is a criminal act? how do you intend to stop all of those teenage girls having their fantasies .. and all of those grown men fantasising over barely 16 yo page 3 gals? but so awful to have yet another sample of home-grown horrors. The only compensation is that some unknown hero like like Ed Hussein had a hand in catching him. I wonder if Bunglawala has ever done as much, rather than asking us try and understand 'curious' teenage terrorists. its so easy to become a 'terrorist' these days .. even people like you are most probably breaking some part of the anti terror legislation since it is that broad and open in the way it is defined. lets face it an 81 yo ex war hero was caught up in it and so was that woman who stood outside number 10 reciting the names of the uks war dead. I must say that some of the contributors here give me the heeby-jeebies: I only hope they are penning their backward rantings from somewhere far away and not from some nice ghetto in England. i dont think you do yourself any favours, yes by all means be a troll but at least be an intelligent troll and know when to stand up for what are hard won civil liberties and human rights .
(16)
2008-08-31 00:37:18
joe:
Quote
dont hold your breath colin!
shan thinks the world is run by Zionists, next it will be lizards, until muslims kill everyone and theres no else to blame.
(17)
2008-08-31 05:49:51
joe:
Quote
sham is a sham.
will he be watching channel 4 Monday 8pm when Undercover Mosque returns to see if they are still preaching hate ?
(18)
2008-08-31 05:58:58
joe:
Quote
Oh, I nearly forgot: "Two bags of ball bearings – described as the shrapnel of choice for suicide bombers - were found in one of his pockets."
maybe he was the school champ at marbles? "oh i nearly forgot" no you didnt you said that to trivialize the matter and try to play it down like you are all ready preparing something of the same for Undercover mosque 2 to be aired 8pm Monday channel 4.
(19)
2008-08-31 06:07:43
K. Urban:
Quote
Colin the Atheist says:
''I would like to drive my car at 80mph everywhere, I can't, it’s against the law'' As everywhere includes hospitals, outside schools, this brings to question Colin's judgement on matters.
(20)
2008-08-31 08:06:53
Colin the Athiest:
Quote
"While there is undeniably a terror threat to Britain, the government has been more than eager to exaggerate the extent of the danger" — KhurramI wonder if it was jews or members of the none muslims community planning to blow planes busses and trains up would say its being exaggerated. Why dont you say muslims exaggerate when they claim soldier are over in iraq murdering all the iraqis? Yes the Zion jews are blowing trains up all the time! - Muslim ones in muslim countries? Or does that not count? ...oh yes you dont like to talk about that do you :) What of the jews involvement in the neocon movement? - that killed a million muslims - want to apologise?
(21)
2008-08-31 08:26:52
Colin:
Quote
Let’s try and come to an agreement. Let’s say that a teenage Jew was found searching the Internet for ways to blow up the pseudonymous Wendy Mann, discussed this fantasy by phone with other teenage Jews and started collecting the wherewithal to carry out the fantasy. I can say that if my knickname were Wendy Mann I’d be very relieved if the long arm of the law intervened and the courts put the little horror out of the way of harming the pseudonymous Wendy Mann, even if the little horror turned out not to be a Jew but some other ethnic, even an English ethnic. Are we agreed?
(22)
2008-08-31 12:15:44
Ahmed:
Quote
There is another kind of threat that the government and media simply turn a blind eye to and that is the kind of racial hatred that means that a gang of white thugs can murder someone simply because of the colour of their skin.
(23)
2008-08-31 19:31:51
Colin the Athiest:
Quote
There is another kind of threat that the government and media simply turn a blind eye to and that is the kind of racial hatred that means that a gang of white thugs can murder someone simply because of the colour of their skin. — Ahmed
(24)
2008-08-31 22:40:35
markuk:
Quote
There is another kind of threat that the government and media simply turn a blind eye to and that is the kind of racial hatred that means that a gang of white thugs can murder someone simply because of the colour of their skin. — AhmedWhy is it you muslims like to make sweeping accusations but dont give any example. Ahmed has just blatantly diverted from the topic about a muslim terrorist and used a typical tactic used by muslims by playing the victim and making up silly stories like the government let white people murder others as long as the victim isnt white. Lets stick to the topic eh.
(25)
2008-09-01 00:16:07
shan:
Quote
markuk the racist bigot lectures us again but cannot condemn the racist and bigoted attacks in quenchwell and belper.
As someone famously said give me the person and i shal find the crimes to pin him on, what is happening is state machinery is being used to villify and create terror,if i was given the same powers i could come up with racist/christian terrorists using the same by hook or crook we will get you laws.
(26)
2008-09-01 10:12:23
A A:
Quote
[quote=markuk
Why is it you muslim................ [/quote] That's enough to see where your xenophobic veiws are coming from. Grow up!
(27)
2008-09-01 11:34:36
markuk:
Quote
As always you have no examples so you decide to call me a racist instead.
Why is it shan that you dont feel the need to call ahmed a rasict for making up racist stories? Also about quenchwell and belper i did condemn it. But not as a racist because there is no evidence of it being because of race. A pigs head on a wall of a muslim community centre would say that it was aimed at muslims. I didnt hear you condemn Hammaad Munshi as Britain's youngest terrorist. Does this make you a racist then?
(28)
2008-09-01 13:54:02
shan:
Quote
markuk several months have passed and to date you have not condemned the racist and bigoted attacks in quechwell and belper.
you have attempted to play down the racist and bigoted attacks by saying they were not racist as they left a pigs head,the fact that the pigs head was meant as warning to get out or you will be killed is clear for all to see. The centre was to be a asian community centre as described by the police,since you try to playdone crimes by racist and bigots by not condemning them it leaves the feeling that you are one of them. I condemn every single terrorist whgo kills innocent people be he christian/atheist/muslim or any other faith period. As someone who grew up with i.r.a bombings i know that organisations who wish to carry out strategic acts of violence will use clean and educated people who will not be detected,what has been seen in britian when dealing with so called muslim terorists is former criminals-drug abusers and naive young kids being stitched up like irish people were stiched up.
(29)
2008-09-01 17:07:36
Polly:
Quote
markuk several months have passed and to date you have not condemned the racist and bigoted attacks in quechwell and belper. — shanyou have attempted to play down the racist and bigoted attacks by saying they were not racist as they left a pigs head,the fact that the pigs head was meant as warning to get out or you will be killed is clear for all to see. The centre was to be a asian community centre as described by the police,since you try to playdone crimes by racist and bigots by not condemning them it leaves the feeling that you are one of them. I condemn every single terrorist whgo kills innocent people be he christian/atheist/muslim or any other faith period. As someone who grew up with i.r.a bombings i know that organisations who wish to carry out strategic acts of violence will use clean and educated people who will not be detected,what has been seen in britian when dealing with so called muslim terorists is former criminals-drug abusers and naive young kids being stitched up like irish people were stiched up. you wont get anything from markuk - he is a zionist ..expect him to simply try to get the general public or muslim mind to become confused on the matter. If he achieves that his job is done.
(30)
2008-09-01 20:05:50
George Bush:
Quote
dont hold your breath colin! — joeshan thinks the world is run by Zionists, next it will be lizards, until muslims kill everyone and theres no else to blame. another zio-pig trying to pretend the dont run foreign policy in america .. err perhaps he needs to read the book 'they dare to speak out' by Paul findly?
(31)
2008-09-01 20:10:36
mark uk:
Quote
What if the people who put the pigs head on the wall were black? Does this mean im not a racist any more or what if half of the community centre are white am i only half racist.
Its starting to bore the crap out of me this forum. Shan i couldnt have typed it any clearer but ill give it a go. why havent you condemned hammaad Munshi as Britain's youngest terrorist. Goes this mean your a racist. Yet again you muslims have managed to divert thetopic to one of being a victim when it was about a muslim who is a terrorist.
(32)
2008-09-01 21:43:27
shan:
Quote
markuk still making excuses for racists and bigots, what is the matter the master race cannot do any wrong.
Read the comment above and if you have problems understanding the words i condemn all terorists who kill innocent civillians then get someone to help you understand that terrorists are people who kill innocent people whether they are muslims/christians or atheists. If in your master race theory only people of certain belief or colour who are killed can be victims of terrorism then we cannot help you.
(33)
2008-09-02 10:23:58
RSD:
Quote
Shan's comments are clearly wrong. The IRA was fundamentally different to the "Muslim terrorists". In the first place the IRA saw itself as an undergound army with a clear command structure and stated objectives. It drew its forces from a broad swathe of Irish Catholic Nationalists, but there was tendency for them to be working class. Above all the IRA saw itself as an army in every sense of the word. The IRA were very aware of the media impact of their actions and deliberately set out to contain the impact to prevent the loss of support. Governments were able to engage with the IRA command.
The "Muslim terrorists" appear to operate largely independently from one another and have no clear command structure. They appear be drawn from a wide background, and are not necessarily from poor social backgrounds as Shan claims. The suicide bombers at Glasgow airport certainly weren't uneducated or disadvantaged. The absence of structure and clear objectives of the Muslim terrorists poses the security forces with a real problem. As does the development of the internet which did not exist at the time of the IRA's major campaigns. It is in response to these that they have demanded the draconian measures that are in place. There is no one the government can engage with and no certainty that any action by the government can delivered up an end to the violence.
(34)
2008-09-02 20:46:07
Aaranovitch:
Quote
Shan's comments are clearly wrong. The IRA was fundamentally different to the "Muslim terrorists". In the first place the IRA saw itself as an undergound army with a clear command structure and stated objectives. It drew its forces from a broad swathe of Irish Catholic Nationalists, but there was tendency for them to be working class. Above all the IRA saw itself as an army in every sense of the word. The IRA were very aware of the media impact of their actions and deliberately set out to contain the impact to prevent the loss of support. Governments were able to engage with the IRA command. — RSDThe "Muslim terrorists" appear to operate largely independently from one another and have no clear command structure. They appear be drawn from a wide background, and are not necessarily from poor social backgrounds as Shan claims. The suicide bombers at Glasgow airport certainly weren't uneducated or disadvantaged. The absence of structure and clear objectives of the Muslim terrorists poses the security forces with a real problem. As does the development of the internet which did not exist at the time of the IRA's major campaigns. It is in response to these that they have demanded the draconian measures that are in place. There is no one the government can engage with and no certainty that any action by the government can delivered up an end to the violence. what a load of rubbish - if you had any clue at all of what you were talking about you would be dangerous. Basically in all the crap that you wrote, that was so long and so boring that i had to slap myself to stay awake the only thing you could say was 'one thought it was an army the other doesnt' ....man stay away from analysis - your rubbish at it. The IRA was fighting occupation - so are Muslims - thats were it starts and ends. How long did that take to right Zio-moron? - Keep your moronic reply short!
(35)
2008-09-02 23:45:31
markuk:
Quote
Who is occupying Darfur and who is occupying india
because muslims are doing an awful lot of killing in these places
(36)
2008-09-03 05:04:31
shan:
Quote
RSD still going full steam with your usual hot air,trying to make excuses for terrorists.
markuk the racist bigot who refuses to condemn the attacks in quenchwell and belper, darfur is in sudan not in the united kingdom,the sudanese government is fighting foreign backed-financed and trained terorists who wish to stop sudan from modernising its nation using its resources for their own benefit,it is power politics america and her stooges want china out as stated by these terror groups in sudan. Kashmir was sold into wholesale slavery by the evil slave master nation known as britian, it was lord mounbatten whose wife was friendly with nehru who had the borders redrawn so that inda could occupy kashmir in 1947. markuk if you are going to lie then make sure i am not around on the blogs as your lies will be swept away. 600,000 indian state terrorists to date have killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of kashmiries for daring to demand freedom. BTW i think in you hatred for muslims you forget it is hindus who are killing your fellow christian brothers in orissa or maybe as they are not from the master race so they probally do not matter.
(37)
2008-09-03 10:39:21
|
While there is undeniably a terror threat to
Britain, the government has been more than eager to exaggerate the
extent of the danger
Search MPACUK.org
Latest Discussions
Recommended Books
