| Are We Going To Have One Start Date For Ramadhan & One Eid? |
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| Monday, 25 August 2008 | |
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The differences on the celebration of Eid this time round were because of which country's sighting of the moon, we should follow. The choices are many: the first Muslim country to see the moon, the closest Muslim country to see the moon, the UK's observation of the moon. Let us start by ruling out any voices of deviance who may suggest visualisation of the moon from other planetary bodies. We live on Earth; it is from Earth that we shall observe the moon. Then it remains to be answered, should we follow the moon of another Muslim country or the moon of the UK? The answer is simple and so elegant, yet it is denied by the some of our Mosque leaders, as it would undermine their authority and their coveted positions. During the time of the Prophet Peace Be Upon Him, the Muslim empire had expanded over three continents. When the moon was observed in Damasacus, the Makkans did not follow. It simply was not possible, and the knowledgeable Companions May Allaah Be Pleased With Them, did not have issue with the fact that they would celebrate Eid based on an observation of the Moon in their own locality. Not in a locality a hundred thousand miles away. However times have changed, now we have one "global community" and communication problems do not remain as they did then. So whose moon should we follow now? In Islam we pray Fajr before sunrise. Maghrib prayer is offered at sunset. Every school of faith, every sect in Islam agrees on these approximate timings, give or take a small margin of error. What they ALL also agree on is that when it says sunrise it means the sunrise in your location. A Muslim living in Japan will not follow the sunrise of Saudi Arabia, a Muslim in the outskirts of Outer Mongolia will not follow the sunrise of Morocco. So why do some of our Imams insist on following the moon sighting of another country? It defies belief. That is not all, it gets better. The whole year round, Muslims follow the Lunar calendar. It is not just during Ramadan. There are other months, Rajab, Shaban, Shawwal. Once the new moon is seen the new month will begin. The whole year round these leaders follow the dates given by British observations. Yet only when it comes to Eid, this whole thing becomes an issue. Why do they follow the British moon the whole year round EXCEPT for two Eid's and the start of Ramadhan? This is where I will introduce an Arabic word, but I promise to explain. Fitnah. It means disruption, corruption, disorder. At a time when Muslims need to remain united during one of the most troubling periods in our history we are being ripped apart by these elements. As our brothers and sisters die, we celebrate our Eids in extravagance, and not only that we celebrate them as we fight between each other. This whole situation is just further proof of the sad and sorry state of certain Muslim leaders, and no longer is it an excuse for you, the reader, to just feign ignorance. These leaders are causing this deliberate difference between Muslims at a time when it is imperative that we stay united. And your silence is doing nothing but giving them the power to do so. If anything you are aiding and abetting. Be part of the solution, not the problem. What do you think about this? If you have any comment to make on this or other topics mentioned, have your say, right here on Britain's Biggest Muslim Website.           Readers have left 15 comments.
Solaiman:
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Muslims one day for Ramadan? Are you crazy. That is never going to happen. The Salafis and the Sufis hate each other so much they would rather eat their children alive then do such a thing.
(1)
2008-08-25 16:33:30
I Sidat:
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The person who wrote this article seems to have very small understanding of the fundamental laws of Shariah.
The reason why we must look at the next Islamic country for a moon sighting has been laid down by shariah which we must FOLLOW and told by our prophet. Shariah laws says if there is no moon sighting in one Islamic country then you look to the next until there is a clear message saying that there is no sighting, this must also be in approximation of the time lapses of sunrise and sunset. Now it's difficult to have EID on one day due to the way in which this has been practised as if we change it then we will be breaking fundamental laws. People follow Morocco incidentally these people look at the moon and cut their hair it's their culture but these people don't follow Shariah law apparently in their country it's a debatable issue which I find abhorrent, they don't look at the next country to see if there is a sighting which they bound to do, so those people following Morocco are doing it wrong not only that but it's not an Islamic country neither is Turkey or even Iran because they don't implement the Shariah law properly which is a fundamental requirement. People following India/Pakistan and are wrong because it's obvious to everyone that a moon sighting is going to be seen in Saudi first and they shouldn't be following these. As in these regions (Indian subcontinent and some part of Asia, Russia areas of the oceanic regions) you will see a significant difference of sunrise and sunset. People following Saudi, Egypt and many other countries in the region are correct because in these areas the UK will be in similar time span for sunrise and sunset or let’s call it day not only that, it's been proven that moon sightings a more clearer in these areas than any other place on earth. So it would be ideal for a Muslim in the west to look here as their second point of call but as we know that isn't the case. People may reject my comments but this is the truth in Islam you must carry on questioning until a moon sighting has been made but you can't ask a country that doesn’t practice Shariah law properly or non-Islamic country.
(2)
2008-08-25 20:03:19
Mujaahid:
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The fitnah has arisen simply because some have chosen to use a means other than that prescribed in the Quran and Sunnah. The answer is to return to that which is revealed - plain and simple.
(3)
2008-08-25 21:12:27
Tahseen:
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I Sadat
"The reason why we must look at the next Islamic country for a moon sighting has been laid down by shariah which we must FOLLOW and told by our prophet. Shariah laws says if there is no moon sighting in one Islamic country then you look to the next until there is a clear message saying that there is no sighting" No wonder the Muslim 'world' is heading rapidly back to the 8th century. Don't you KNOW that the Sun/Moon rises/sets on a country whether it is an 'Islamic' country or full os Kaffirs? Best thing is to take the Latitude at Mecca, and at the point where it intersects the Equator, take the start of the Lunar month by a simple observation: does the sun set before the moon sets? If so, then the moon can be 'visible'. However if the moon sets before the sun, then it will not be visible. These times can be predicted years, even centuries in advance. The confusion is caused every year, without fail be backward 'sheikh worshippers', who heed the buffoons and deny clear science. They ignore one of the basic lessons of Islam: obervation of Nature (being Allah's creation). Cut off you beards of stupidity; remove your jilbaabs of ignorance. Embrace the spirit of Islam.
(4)
2008-08-25 22:54:08
Sultan (in Oxford):
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Assalaam alaikum and Greetings
Getting Mosques united to perform ONE Ramadan start-date and ONE EID is like asking oil and water to mix. It will never happen unless we remove certain committee members (the same lot who have run down the Mosques into mere prayer halls) or add a catalyst (stick) to get them to agree. Ramadan should be a sign of unity, since there is ONLY ONE Ramadan start-time, one EID, and one Ummah (globally) but unfortunately RAMADAN is a sign of disunity when our true 'sectarian' colours shine through. I say 'sectarian', as Mosques seem to follow their home Country, their own interpretations, when it comes to commencing Ramadan and completely miss the whole point of Ramadan. UNITY. You have Mosques leaders quarelling over whether Moon sighting should be via the naked eye or via a telescope. Whether we should trust calculations or whether we should see the moon for ourselves (despite the fact that these same illiterate leaders base Maghrib and Fajr prayers based upon timetable calculations, rather than seeing sunrise/sunset for themselves). Whether we should follow Saudia, or Pakistan, etc. The Result : Different MOSQUES within the same locality have different start dates for Ramadan, much to the amusement of the non-Muslims. I disagree with the original poster as to why should NOT follow Saudia Arabia. His/Her assertions are incorrect. While there are many hadiths on sighting the moon, to judge the start time of Ramadan, there are also hadiths placing TRUST on the person who saw the moon. The way I see it, since we are one Ummah (supposedly), and since there is only one Ramadan and EID, then each Islamic Country should be looking for the moon on its designated night. We have been on this earth long enough to know EXACTLY where the NEW MOON will be and for how long it will last. We can use calculations here to help us. Once it is sighted in ANY ISLAMIC Country, then it is the duty of all Islamic Countries to trust the citing and begin Ramadan immediately, if their time-zone allows it. If Saudia Arabia is privilaged to see the moon 1st then we in the UK (who are 3-4 hours behind them) should trust their sighting. We should not break free and go on our own paths and based Ramadan on our OWN Moon sighting because the SAME moon has already been sighted elsewhere (in a country 3-4 hours ahead of us). To do so would mean we start a day AFTER the moon was sighted. We live in a day and age where information is spread rapidly and we cannot assume ignorance. And, I would rather show a sign of UNITY than to appear breaking the ummah. If the Saudis have got it wrong then Allah(SWT) will hold that person accountable. BUT, of course, if one follows Saudia Arabia then one gets accused of following 'wahabis' or 'Saudis' and you get the typical statement of 'if you follow Saudia, why not follow their salaat timetable as well'. As the poster states. This statement is very naive and ignorant, because salaat is based upon rotations of the SUN, whereas the Islamic Calender month is based upon rotations of the MOON. Two completely different sources. So it is perfectly acceptable to align oneself with Ramadan of Saudia but NOT their salaat times. I have found that the Mosque leaders who do not engage with the Saudi Sighting are typically those who say that the Saudis do HAJJ on the wrong day. Interestingly, these same Mosque leaders have no objections to doing the HAJJ 'on the wrong day' themselves when they are there to perform HAJJ. Wasalaams
(5)
2008-08-26 12:41:27
I Sidat:
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Tasheen you make no sense, first of all the Islamic date starts at Maghrib time and for the new month we look for the moon. So where does the sun come into this?
And are you trying to say we should ignore the Shariah?
(6)
2008-08-26 13:24:14
Akbar:
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A few years ago - the thought of having Ramadan and Eids on different days angered me. Nowadays I make the best of the opportunity. It means I can have Eid on one day with my family and the next with someone else. I know people who belong to different sects when they got married. Their in-laws celebrated Eid on different days.
I think it is high time for Eid to be granted as a 2 or 3 day holiday, in this way everyone is covered! Chill guys!
(7)
2008-08-26 17:42:06
Abu_Maryam:
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I think things have got better in recent years. Ideally we need one committee who's decision Muslims in UK should abide by. If thats not achievable we should do want the Pakistanis do and celebrate Eid over three days.
(8)
2008-08-26 18:36:58
Tahseen:
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I Sadat
Islamic month begins with the 'visibility' of the moon; and you cannot see the moon if it sets just before sunset (because the western sky is far too bright to see the thin crescent of the new moon). However, if the sun has already set, then the sky may just be dark enough for the cresecnt to be seen. Sunset and Moonset times are known months/years/centuries in advance. Yes, maghrib is at senset, but the Islamic month 'begins' with the 'sighting' of the new moon. I trust you've understood that now. Solar and lunar days vary (on the SAME calender date) according to the latitude/longitude. So, in order to have a place agreeable to all Muslims, why not say Longtitude Mecca, and Latitude Equator? At the place where these two intersect, just take the day when sun sets before the moon (in the last quarter of the lunar month) and call that the start of the new lunar month. Thus you have Islamic ingredient/scientific method but utilising known natural phenomena. No reason why this should not be 'Shariah'. The key is the 'visibility' of the moon. Who knows: had there been clocks in 7th century Arabia, we may well have this very method prescribed. Muslims should stop tying their minds to the pre-scientific age, like a goat tied to a gate-post! (Remember also that at the North/South Poles days/nights can be six months long. So when is Fajr and when is Isha? And how do you begin fasting before 'daybreak', and end at 'sunset'? It's a very long wait! Is there any Hadith regarding the Polar regions?)
(9)
2008-08-26 18:41:52
kermit:
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i want to know 'if' in the Prohets (pbuh) time, there was telescopes or stalites, or adavanced mathamatics which could predict new moons would he have used them to determine Eid, if yes, then surely the Quran and Sunnah in this case is taken out of the context it was revealed...?
secondly surely what ever method is used to determine Eid, the need to have some unity, is a imperative that shouldnt be over looked easily on a base on valid and differnt interpretations of the rules governing the Sighting of the moon. secondly
(10)
2008-08-27 11:53:47
I Sidat:
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Tasheen what i say and what you say is no different. But what am pointing at is Should we ignore Shariah Law? And if you clearly read there is no discrepency.
If we have to decide the month or day on visibility of the moon we could be saying there are 31 days!! which is wrong..... Fundemental point the people who follow other countries other than Saudi are doing thier Eid and Ramzan wrong why because when they count the days to second Eid it falls outside of Islamic laws. Second Eid has to be in line with Makkah but some people do it the day after!!!!
(12)
2008-08-27 23:38:20
kermit:
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Tasheen what i say and what you say is no different. But what am pointing at is Should we ignore Shariah Law? And if you clearly read there is no discrepency. — I SidatIf we have to decide the month or day on visibility of the moon we could be saying there are 31 days!! which is wrong..... Fundemental point the people who follow other countries other than Saudi are doing thier Eid and Ramzan wrong why because when they count the days to second Eid it falls outside of Islamic laws. Second Eid has to be in line with Makkah but some people do it the day after!!!! interesting points, but can you explain the Sharia laws regarding unity and what at what cost (in the hereafter, and in this world), would the obvious conflicts between legitimate interpretations of how to identify Eid. I want to know, are we doing a bigger sin, by ensuring that Eid is not a unifying day and rather a day that enforces our differences in regards to sects and nationalities.
(13)
2008-08-28 14:42:52
Liberator:
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The whole debate hinges on 2 main issues.
1.) Local sighting vs Global Sighting 2.) Calculation vs Moon Sighting On both issues it is the shariah that decides what is best. Not your layman interpretation and 'what i think' nonsense. 1.) As for this issue. The global sighting position is stronger than the local sighting position as it is a minority opinion. The hanafi's malikis and the hanbali schools of thought all support the global. There are some shafi's who support the local. 2.) The dispute here comes from the hadith of the Prophet(saw) which states that "The month is thus and thus. (He then withdrew His thumb at the third time indicating 29). He then said: Fast when you see it, and break your fast when you see it, and if the weather is cloudy do calculate it" There was difference of opinion on what is meant by 'calculate it' but then this iss clarified by another hadith "The month consists of 29 nights, so do not fast till you have sighted it (i.e. the new moon), and if the weather were cloudy, then complete it as thirty days." So to calculate does not mean your astronomical calculations nonsense and when the moon sets and the sun sets. It means to complete the 30 days and the next day is the beginning of the new month.
(14)
2008-08-29 10:51:13
Islamic Torch:
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Well hope a friend of mine who is a Police officer with West Midlands Police is allowed to celebrate Eid with his family this year unlike last December the internal affairs, West Midlands Police called him in on Eid. He missed the Eid prayer and one of the officers made remarks which the Muslim officer and others found quite shocking.....
(15)
2008-08-29 19:30:05
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Muslims have reached a new low, so low that we compete with each other in levels of ignorance. While the diversity in our religion is a form of blessing, the nature of the differences we observe during Ramadhan, which should be a communal festive period, is based on nothing but a lack of basic knowledge and common sense.
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