| Why I despise so many 'practicing' Muslims |
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| Sunday, 15 June 2008 | |
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Instantly I clicked on the link. It was written by a brother who was narrating both his and other prisoners experience while being held in detention under the ‘terrorism bill’. It heartbreaking for me and at the same time made me realise why I despise so many practicing Muslims. The frauds with their Arabic style clothes and long flowing beards or sisters who knew every minor argument from the permissibility of nail varnish to pathetic over-pious segregation laws between man and woman (until they wanted to find a man at which point they dropped it all). I say they are frauds for a good reason; a fraud is a man who claims to be something he is not. Says something that he or she doesn’t do themselves. These so called self proclaimed ‘practicing Muslims’ call themselves this glorified name because they want to tell people they practice Islam. All very well if it was true, any practicing Muslim reading this will be well versed in telling people that they should follow ‘the sunnah’ of the Prophet PBUH, and that’s why so many of them dress the way they do, shorten their trousers, grow beards, put on hijabs and go the extra mile even going so far as not using a tooth brush and preferring Miswak. Yet how strange any good that the Prophet PBUH ever told them for society is dumped like a hot coal. The sunnah of the Prophet PBUH that was the greatest blessing to mankind, the greatest benefit to man, and the reason why Islam was greater then any other faith – the part where a Muslim would not allow society to be harmed by an evil, that part these practicing Muslims never mention nor follow. The Sunnah of the Prophet PBUH that attracted the Sahabah, made them love Islam – the very reason why Islam spread around the world these pacified frauds simply refuse to do. And there are two reasons for it, first because its hard, their isn’t any glory stopping injustice, stopping your fellow man from being beaten in a cold cell or tortured or starved to death or shot like an animal. You can act holy if your doing that – no, you actually have to be holy to do that. The second is their pathetic scholars and Imams and student ISOC emirs don’t teach them that part of Islam. How can a scholar tell Muslims to stop injustice when all he himself ever does is sit on backside and talk a good talk. So the oppressed remain oppressed. The Africans starve under crippling third world debt while white non-Muslims fight for them; The Dalits (india’s untouchables) remain slaves while a hundred million Muslims walk past them with their trousers shortened so their ankles don’t burn in hell. Little girls are raped and shot from Kashmir to Palestine while Muslim men debate about the whether it was permissible to kiss your fingers after the Prophets PBUH name or not and the perfect length of the Beard. Im sure many so called practicing Muslims will be upset by this post, and I reply – why are you upset with the bringer of Truth, rather be upset with those who look like you, call thrmselves what you call yourself but betray their God, their Prophet , their people and the world. I leave you with the words of the Prophet PBUH Abu Umamah Bin Sahl narrated from his father that the Prophet (SAW) said, “He in whose presence a Muslim is humiliated and who does not help him, being able to help him, God will humiliate him before all creatures on the Day of Judgment”.(Ahmed)
“And who is better in speech than he who says “my lord is Allah(swt)” and invites men to Allahs (Islamic monotheism) and does righteous deeds and says “I am one of the Muslims”
“The faithful believers are as a brick structure, each supporting one another”
At-Tirmidhi narrated from Jabir (ra) that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “On the Day of Judgement, the people who were in comfort (in the world), will wish that their skin was cut up with scissors, due to what they see of the reward of those who were tested and suffered (in this world). “           Readers have left 38 comments.
dude:
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Everything written in the article can be said about non practising Muslims - the practising ones are a minority. The whole Muslim population are at fault so stop trying to divide an already divided ummah.
I am practising but not upset at the article because it contains elements of truth - but it should be aimed at all muslims not only the practising ones, unless the non-practising ones think they are not accountable because they don't follow islam fully? What whole Muslim population should hang their heads in shame for allowing islam to be in its current state - After that stop feeling sorry for ourselves and start becoming active socially and politically to help the muslim population.
(1)
2008-06-16 00:32:02
common sense:
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What can you expect, Muslims left Muslim lands to live in non Muslim lands, did you expect your kids to be good Muslims with Islam in their harts? or money? After all isn’t it the money the Muslims were chasing when they came here (UK)?
This is a by product of mistakes of the past. Although some credibility is deserved to those who implement the little they know or as much as they can in the current climate, remember we are talking about people who have grown up in non Muslim lands under non Islamic laws, they have no guidance; little access to hadith…a recent brother said he doesn’t even know what hadith is. Yet in this lost generation, some have managed to maintain Islam in their lives. So to compare them against the true law abiding Muslim is a little far fetched, and the thorough and in-depth scriptures is unfair. Regarding fakes in other countries than the UK, And regarding the sister who drops her ethics when searching for a man, what do u expect her to do? We do not have the system for Islamic marriages, you are allowed to marry a Muslim man regardless of race and colour, relying on what seems the only option(marrying who your parents chose ie your cousins) a sister has little choice, and majority of parents are not capable of making decisions based on Islamic ruling. So what does she do? If you have answers, provide them. The harsh truth is for Muslims to express themselves they need a rep, a member in the house of commons representing Muslims, who meets the leadership criteria set by sharia. This person can at least be the voice of the Muslims. To create this leader/representative the community are meant to fund for this person to be trained and educated, according to the days of the famous 4 imams, they did not have full time jobs, they did nothing but study the sunnah and Quran, they were paid for by the community that means free travel, free food, free accommodation and any other needs because what they were doing was for the greater good of the ummah. Since no proper Muslim country exists, and a world wide effort is being made to stamp Muslims off the face of the earth, to redeem ourselves, our own people need to be educated about their religion fast, probably not possible, seems like annihilation is inevitable. Just don’t come out screaming and crying when the there is a ban on the hijab in the UK, your kids roam the streets fouling, out of control while its prayer time and are out on the drink until early mornings, on the premise that god will forgive them anyway so its ok to do as you please……little do you know, it never was OK
(2)
2008-06-16 01:19:44
Paul M:
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Can you give a single example of 'a little girl being raped in Palestine' (by, I presume you mean, the forces of the Israeli occupation) since the occupation began in 1967?
(3)
2008-06-16 07:42:39
Syed:
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Can you give a single example of 'a little girl being raped in Palestine' (by, I presume you mean, the forces of the Israeli occupation) since the occupation began in 1967? — Paul M
(4)
2008-06-16 09:59:46
zahra Jibril:
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This is nothing but stuff & nonsense, an emotional outburst at a nonexistent category full of contradictor statements. Firstly each Muslim is different both in their practice and knowledge. There is no correlation between Muslim by name or non practising Muslims or non Muslims and the likelihood they will care more about human abuses and suffering. In fact despite your ignorant assertion, the essence of being a “practising Muslim” is to observe all that Islam teaches. It is not as you claim wearing "Arab style clothes, long beard, etc"
Lastly when did practising Islam become something to mock? While trying to distance your self from "practising Muslims" you fail to notice, that you are in fact asking people to be practising Muslims with all its components, instead of picking and choosing that which suits them. Unless you are saying Islam does not teach these things, Which I don’t think you are. Humiliation comes from Allah, and it is precisely why Muslims are in their current state, abused in every corner of the world. It is not by mocking Islam and pretending that our limited two cent knows better then Islam and will change the course and position of Muslims. It is by returning to Islam in its purity, and the essence of Islam includes all that the poster mentioned and more, only then will Allah change our current condition. Go figure.
(5)
2008-06-16 11:35:13
shlemazl:
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Syed,
That's an Israeli girl, you plonker. And it's the case of underaged sex. Correct answer: "No, I can't".
(6)
2008-06-16 12:22:51
Goalshan:
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This is another example of a puerile, immature and inflammatory post by MPACUK. Perhaps the individual name of the poster should also be included.
This practicing label does not apply to Muslims in the same way as it applies to Christians and Jews. How do you define what makes a practicing Muslim? Someone who prays 5 times a day? Someone who eats halal meat? Someone who rushes into a mosque 5 mins before end of Friday prayer but doesn't pray otherwise? Someone who uncovers her hair but thinks herself practicing when wearing Asian dress? Someone who attends the pub but drinks only orange juice? Someone who attends "Khatams" and knows his/her way around the protocols? Someone who listens to "Qawwalis" and "Nasheeds" whilst zooming and revving in car past a mosque at prayer time. Someone who behaves the same as any other but starves during daylight hours during Ramadhan? Someone who does not pray but attends Funeral prayers? Basically all these people can call themselves practicing if you use the Christian/Jewish style labelling. These people virtually cover all of the Muslims in the UK. Do you despise us all? Lighten up on your inflammatory nature of your postings and give us a break. Stop doing all this "feeling sorry for ourselves" - it doesn't wash.
(7)
2008-06-16 12:33:17
Leila:
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This is nothing but stuff & nonsense, an emotional outburst at a nonexistent category full of contradictor statements. Firstly each Muslim is different both in their practice and knowledge. There is no correlation between Muslim by name or non practising Muslims or non Muslims and the likelihood they will care more about human abuses and suffering. In fact despite your ignorant assertion, the essence of being a “practising Muslim” is to observe all that Islam teaches. It is not as you claim wearing "Arab style clothes, long beard, etc" — zahra JibrilLastly when did practising Islam become something to mock? While trying to distance your self from "practising Muslims" you fail to notice, that you are in fact asking people to be practising Muslims with all its components, instead of picking and choosing that which suits them. Unless you are saying Islam does not teach these things, Which I don’t think you are. Humiliation comes from Allah, and it is precisely why Muslims are in their current state, abused in every corner of the world. It is not by mocking Islam and pretending that our limited two cent knows better then Islam and will change the course and position of Muslims. It is by returning to Islam in its purity, and the essence of Islam includes all that the poster mentioned and more, only then will Allah change our current condition. Go figure. Im sorry but i could not work out what exactly you are saying here, it seems a bit confused, can you clarify it?
(8)
2008-06-16 12:56:17
Jason:
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This is another example of a puerile, immature and inflammatory post by MPACUK. Perhaps the individual name of the poster should also be included. — GoalshanThis practicing label does not apply to Muslims in the same way as it applies to Christians and Jews. How do you define what makes a practicing Muslim? Someone who prays 5 times a day? Someone who eats halal meat? Someone who rushes into a mosque 5 mins before end of Friday prayer but doesn't pray otherwise? Someone who uncovers her hair but thinks herself practicing when wearing Asian dress? Someone who attends the pub but drinks only orange juice? Someone who attends "Khatams" and knows his/her way around the protocols? Someone who listens to "Qawwalis" and "Nasheeds" whilst zooming and revving in car past a mosque at prayer time. Someone who behaves the same as any other but starves during daylight hours during Ramadhan? Someone who does not pray but attends Funeral prayers? Basically all these people can call themselves practicing if you use the Christian/Jewish style labelling. These people virtually cover all of the Muslims in the UK. Do you despise us all? Lighten up on your inflammatory nature of your postings and give us a break. Stop doing all this "feeling sorry for ourselves" - it doesn't wash.
(9)
2008-06-16 12:57:58
Parvez Shah:
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Humiliation comes from Allah, and it is precisely why Muslims are in their current state, abused in every corner of the world. It is not by mocking Islam and pretending that our limited two cent knows better then Islam and will change the course and position of Muslims. It is by returning to Islam in its purity, and the essence of Islam includes all that the poster mentioned and more, only then will Allah change our current condition. Go figure. Its like going to a doctor with a stomach ache and broken leg and him replying 'make sure you are healthy that will solve it' .....be more specific! Right now it seems to just got onto your computer and started rambling.
(10)
2008-06-16 13:03:07
Banu Mia:
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Goalshan i think you will find certain muslims in the uk call 'themselves' practicing. I am not sure where you have been living all your life but those of us living in the UK have all heard people refer to themselves as that.
(11)
2008-06-16 13:10:03
Paul M:
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Syed - as pointed out this is not an example of a Palestinian girl being raped by Israelis.
I repeat - can you give me one example of such a thing happening in forty years of 'occupation'. The Muslims I despise are the Muslims who despise other Muslims who do not follow their political agenda. I also despise the Muslim who show not the slightest interest in the mass rapes and genocide of Muslims (by other Muslims) but harp on about genocides and rapes that are just figments of their over vivid, highly politicised and mendacious imaginations.
(12)
2008-06-16 13:20:23
Disgusted:
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Can you give a single example of 'a little girl being raped in Palestine' (by, I presume you mean, the forces of the Israeli occupation) since the occupation began in 1967? — SyedWhat type of Zionist animal rapes a 11 year old girl
(13)
2008-06-16 14:03:42
Conrad:
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Syed, — shlemazlThat's an Israeli girl, you plonker. And it's the case of underaged sex. Correct answer: "No, I can't". Hey Zionist plonker - you really believe you rats are above raping people - you kill little children and now you have the cheek to say you are above rape. Someone help me! See below for evidence of the rape 15 fellow Palestinian women were raped by Israeli interrogators to force them to confess to charges leveled against them and collaborate with the Israeli intelligence. http://www.islam-online.net/English/...rticle03.shtml see: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/02/361308.html
(14)
2008-06-16 14:12:11
Israeli Rapists Un Ltd:
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Written by Palestinian prisoners:
"They have used this raping techniques before my detention and continue to use it until today," said the Palestinian woman who spent nine years of her life in Israeli detention. She asserted that Palestinian women shy away from reporting such "disgrace" due to the sensitivity of the conservative Palestinian community. The Israelis also, she added, threaten to widely circulate the rape images if any of us take her complains to the public or the press. The sexual abuse practices are not restricted to detained Palestinian women alone. In a phone all from an Israeli jail, a Palestinian man told IOL he has not been allowed to put on any cloths since his detention eight months ago. "I haven't worn my clothes all this period. They (Israeli guards) searched continue to search such around the clock and if we resist they torture us." Replica " Israel , through the Shabak, violates the international convention against the torture which stipulates that all parties should take the necessary legislative, administrative and judicial measures to prevent torture under its jurisdiction," said a Palestinian human rights researcher. Shin Bet, also known as the General Security Services or Shabak, is Israel 's domestic security agency. "The convention clearly states that parties should not exploit extraordinary circumstances, such as war, a threat to wage war or domestic political instability, as pretexts for torture," Sameh El-Sayehn told IOL. He asserted that the U.S. soldiers' sexual abuse of Iraqi detainees in Abu Gharib was simply "a replica of a long-running Israeli practice". "Shabak has more than 25 different torture techniques to extract confessions from Palestinian detainees," El-Sayehn said. "The nudity technique used by the Americans against Iraqi detainees is a long time Israeli favorite but unfortunately pictured never surfaced to expose the barbarism and brutality of a country bragging about being a democracy oasis."
(15)
2008-06-16 14:14:49
Goalshan:
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Jason - I don't what is a practicing Muslim. If you're a Muslim, you should do your utmost to follow the rules. To a non-Muslim, one act by a Muslim eg. not drinking alcohol is enough to categorise that person as a practicing Muslim.
Banu Mia: I have yet to come across a muslim who says "I am a practicing Muslim" to other Muslims. I have only heard of a muslim saying he's a practicing Muslim to non-Muslims. Perhaps the poster should have used a different term eg: "Overzealous" Muslim.
(16)
2008-06-16 15:18:09
kermit:
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Can you give a single example of 'a little girl being raped in Palestine' (by, I presume you mean, the forces of the Israeli occupation) since the occupation began in 1967? — Paul Myou got us muzies there, but being shot by Israeli occupation forces, now thats another matter...
(17)
2008-06-16 15:48:40
Sham:
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Can you give a single example of 'a little girl being raped in Palestine' (by, I presume you mean, the forces of the Israeli occupation) since the occupation began in 1967? — kermitSee below for evidence of the rape 15 fellow Palestinian women were raped by Israeli interrogators to force them to confess to charges leveled against them and collaborate with the Israeli intelligence. http://www.islam-online.net/English/...rticle03.shtml see: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/02/361308.html
(18)
2008-06-16 16:28:42
shan:
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What i despise is liars and deceivers who support murders-rapists-sodomisers-humiliation and oppression,then have the nerve to lecture others about what is right and wrong.
Plestine is occupied at the moment,the number of rapes will only come to light once the palestinians have won their freedom. But the fact that their presidents and heads of armies have been involved in rape and sexual abuse on fellow jews peaks volumes about,what they are doing to palestinians.
(19)
2008-06-16 17:01:46
Syed:
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Lastly when did practising Islam become something to mock? — zahra JibrilMany Muslims do not pray or fast, and may even partake in forbidden acts. However, they believe in Allah, His Prophet (pbuh), His Book and the pillars of the faith and thus are still considered Muslim, albeit, not practicing Muslims. On the other hand there are 'practicing' Muslims that DO pray and fast etc. I believe the main points of the author are: 1) why do they consider themselves 'practicing' when they have failed to fulfil all their religious obligations, namely, protecting your brothers and sisters from oppression 2) this neglect is the fault of our leaders and scholars for not teaching such an important element of our faith
(20)
2008-06-16 17:06:54
Zahra Jibril:
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Leila: Let me break it down for you sis
1)The article is confusing, and just wants to blame what he/she terms as the “practising Muslims” then in the next sentence, it argues that these Muslims have left out or thrown out that which was beneficial about Islam. 2)But the author thinks the essence of practising is few traits he has observed, such as long beard etc. Is this not the same ignorance and generalization we fight daily against the western media. DO I really need to hear these randomly thrown together generalizations from a Muslim? 3)Even worse he seems to think that these practising Muslims will be offended because of what he said, because it is the truth, if they are as bad as he said, they really would not care. 4)Lastly he needs not to reinvent the wheel or come up with magical answers. The Umma is as it is, because no one is acting as they are suppose to be including those trying to shift blame. Parvez Shah: Nor I or the article claim to have a solution. There is no global solution as such, each person needs to analysis their position, the ability, their god given asserts and means to try and do something. At the same time, ignorance is not bliss, people need to learn and educate themselves, their children and society. There is no magic bullet to solve the Muslim problems, nor can I scream that my neighbour or shike has not done anything to help, when I myself have not done anything. Judge yourself, and hold yourself accountable for your inactions, for one knows your true ability and position to help other than you and your lord. Go figure.
(21)
2008-06-16 17:17:04
Zahra Jibril:
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think you're missing the point. Many Muslims do not pray or fast, and may even partake in forbidden acts. However, they believe in Allah, His Prophet (pbuh), His Book and the pillars of the faith and thus are still considered Muslim, albeit, not practicing Muslims. On the other hand there are 'practicing' Muslims that DO pray and fast etc. I believe the main points of the author are: 1) why do they consider themselves 'practicing' when they have failed to fulfil all their religious obligations, namely, protecting your brothers and sisters from oppression 2) this neglect is the fault of our leaders and scholars for not teaching such an important element of our faith Syed; That makes perfect sense to me. :) Salamah
(22)
2008-06-16 17:20:03
Parvez Shah:
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Leila: Let me break it down for you — Zahra JibrilParvez Shah: Nor I or the article claim to have a solution. There is no global solution as such, each person needs to analysis their position, the ability, their god given asserts and means to try and do something. .[/quote [Well no one is asking for panacea to every ill of the Ummah, the article in particular is talking about oppression of human beings and you have not given your solution? The article clearly implies that one should stop it if one is claiming they are practicing - solution. whether you agree or disagree the article has given a solution. Your argument is 'go back to islam' - which was so general that it was poinltess. Therefore if you disagree what is your solution?] [quote=Zahra Jibril]At the same time, ignorance is not bliss, people need to learn and educate themselves, their children and society. . [Can i ask educate them on what exactly, please be specific?] There is no magic bullet to solve the Muslim problems, nor can I scream that my neighbour or shike has not done anything to help, when I myself have not done anything. Judge yourself, and hold yourself accountable for your inactions, for one knows your true ability and position to help other than you and your lord. — Zahra JibrilGo figure. [Well you may not be able to 'scream at your shiekh if you have not done anything - but what if you are doing something? what of the small number of people who are doing smething - do they have a moral right to demand of others who after all claim to practicing to practice what they themselves are claiming they are - namely - islam? Im sorry but your argument is so mixed up as to be almost rambling. Be structured and make your points relate to the article or the questions posted by myself.]
(23)
2008-06-16 18:53:01
Bokuju:
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Zarah isnt it interesting that the Zionist Paul seems to dislike the article too. One wonders why you and a Zionist both dont like what MPAC are saying?
Perhaps they see something that ignorant muslims simply cant see - namely that MPAC are right, and the fear that. Go figure?
(24)
2008-06-16 18:55:44
Taz:
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Can you give a single example of 'a little girl being raped in Palestine' (by, I presume you mean, the forces of the Israeli occupation) since the occupation began in 1967? — Paul M
(25)
2008-06-16 19:45:47
the mirror:
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Assalaamu alaikum
There is some truth in this article, as there is some truth in those who debate against and for it as well. For me, I cannot look to blame fellow Muslims because this has done nothing for me. I cannot anymore live to despise, or feel down, or even wonder what has happened to our Ummah because it has for always, done nothing for me but feel pity for others or angry at them, or even confused at times. And I don't like feeling like this at all. I do believe there are Muslims who practise Islam but just don't do much for the Muslims who are oppressed and Non-Muslims too. And who do not participate but live their life with job, family, talk and going to Friday prayer. And then there are those who practise and do more. And there are those who don't practise at all, but may wear a hijab, or a beard, and rarely prayer but go to Jummah and so on. I know this exists because I see it everywhere and in most of my relatives but I don't have the power to change them. There is only one thing I can do. Change myself. Find out what I must do and do it. And be an example. That is it. Yes, it hurts, yes, sometimes I am dissapointed, and yes, I wonder, why, when there are so many of us, we can't even unite but I cannot do much about this because all this in a sense in not in my control. What is, is DOING, ACTIONS, see where I can help, what can I give, who needs support, which Imam needs assistance, what teenager needs help with reading and Islam, what person needs a job, what letter or article in newspaper needs to be replied to and so on. Hence, I can grow bitter, I can grow to blame, I can grow to judge, and I can do much more with "why and how come, and what the heck, and damn them all, and they are hypocrites" and so on. The thing is, it doesn't do much good to help me go out there to just do. I know how the author may feel. I know how others may feel too. I understand some of what other's say but in the end, I know, what I must do and rest I leave to Allah SWT. Tired of judging our Ummah or anyone else. rather just do what other's won't do and not judge those that don't do it. It's not my job. I pray things change for the better. I can only hope. Allah be with our Ummah and Wassalaam
(26)
2008-06-16 19:47:50
Taz:
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Syed, — shlemazlThat's an Israeli girl, you plonker. And it's the case of underaged sex. Correct answer: "No, I can't".
(27)
2008-06-16 19:49:11
zahra Jibril:
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Bokuju: Zarah isnt it interesting that the Zionist Parvez Shah Can I ask educate them on what exactly, please be specific? AS for your other question, depends on if you are doing all you can and why you are doing it. If you are doing it just to show off and the right to abuse people, then obviously its wrong. I don't really want to go around in circles with you or keep repeating the same things to you. So refer to my post above to Leila and Seyed with regards to what I think of the article. “Why I despise Practicing Muslims” is slightly misguided, unnecessary generalization and confusing. Who every wrote it was just having a emotional outburst, at worst based on revenge, and at best frustration. I really cannot make it anymore clearer for you, if again you think this is rambling then we are on opposite ends of the same road. I’m not going to argue backwards and forwards with you extensively. Salamah.
(28)
2008-06-16 21:31:14
Mohammed:
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Does the author of this article consider himself or could be considered by others to be a practicing Muslim? Does he have a beard? Does he pray salah 5 times a day at the masjid? Would others be able to vouch for his practices?
Only then would he have a legitimate point.
(29)
2008-06-17 00:06:26
Goalshan:
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This article has produced many reactions:
1) Israeli Military oppressing Palestinians: You guys keep going, I cannot add to your debate. 2) Zahra: Why does it seem that I am the only one agreeing with her. What she says makes sense. Why are Parvez nit-picking so much? Why is Bokuju equating her with Zionism - what's his/her problem? MPACUK DO NOT HOLD A MONOPOLY ON ISLAMIC VIEWS NOR DO THEY SOLELY HAVE THE MORAL UPPER GROUND. I think Parvez and Bokuju (the latter sounds like a mutilation of Bokhari) are MPACUK plants/cronies. You CAN be Muslim AND hold views that do NOT necessarily CORRELATE with MPACUK - IF YOU DISAGREE WITH MPACUK YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A ZIONIST. YOU GUYS AT MPACUK NEED TO CONSIDER GROWING UP!
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2008-06-17 00:53:18
Johnny:
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The simple problem is everyone blames one another. The moderates blame the extremists the extremists blame the moderates. The practising blame the non practising. At the end of it all it turns out to be all talk and a blame game.
Just do your own stuff and what you good at without putting someone else down just beacuse you dont agree with them. Accept that everyone is different and get on with life.
(31)
2008-06-17 01:53:03
shlemazl:
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Taz:
Just pointing out that the reference provided had nothing to do with the claim. Does that make me a rapist? Gentlemen, your sources are not worth very much. Hazem Nusseibeh, an editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service's Arabic news in 1948 admitted in a BBC television series, "Israel and the Arabs: the 50 Year Conflict,": "'There was no rape.' [Khalidi] said, 'We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews."
(32)
2008-06-17 02:40:40
Paul M:
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Taz - the article suggests rape of little girls under the occupation is going on all the time and Muslims should get angry about it.
When pushed, the claim seems to boil down to: - It happened in the war 60 years ago (tell me a war it did not happen in, and on both sides) - It is happening but Muslim women just do not complain about it because of their religious sesnsibilities (but it has not stopped them in Sudan and Bosnia) - Rape happens in Israel (whoever said it did not? we're not claiming it is a society without crime. who said it is OK?) So, in a nutshell, it is just another anti-Israeli lie. It's as if the BNP claimed that Muslims were taking Christian girls and forcing them into marriages in Muslim lands. Then it turns out that this is only happening to Muslim women (which does not make it acceptable) or that it happened in the 17th century. It would just be a lie as well and Muslims would be right to point this out.
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2008-06-17 09:05:28
kermit:
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Taz - the article suggests rape of little girls under the occupation is going on all the time and Muslims should get angry about it. — Paul MWhen pushed, the claim seems to boil down to: - It happened in the war 60 years ago (tell me a war it did not happen in, and on both sides) - It is happening but Muslim women just do not complain about it because of their religious sesnsibilities (but it has not stopped them in Sudan and Bosnia) - Rape happens in Israel (whoever said it did not? we're not claiming it is a society without crime. who said it is OK?) So, in a nutshell, it is just another anti-Israeli lie. It's as if the BNP claimed that Muslims were taking Christian girls and forcing them into marriages in Muslim lands. Then it turns out that this is only happening to Muslim women (which does not make it acceptable) or that it happened in the 17th century. It would just be a lie as well and Muslims would be right to point this out. good point, it should have said, Zionist Jews are killing little Palestinians girls...and then its ok for Muslims to get angry! thanks for the correction.
(34)
2008-06-17 09:49:54
Sarah:
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Taz - the article suggests rape of little girls under the occupation is going on all the time and Muslims should get angry about it. — Paul MWhen pushed, the claim seems to boil down to: - It happened in the war 60 years ago (tell me a war it did not happen in, and on both sides) - It is happening but Muslim women just do not complain about it because of their religious sesnsibilities (but it has not stopped them in Sudan and Bosnia) - Rape happens in Israel (whoever said it did not? we're not claiming it is a society without crime. who said it is OK?) So, in a nutshell, it is just another anti-Israeli lie. It's as if the BNP claimed that Muslims were taking Christian girls and forcing them into marriages in Muslim lands. Then it turns out that this is only happening to Muslim women (which does not make it acceptable) or that it happened in the 17th century. It would just be a lie as well and Muslims would be right to point this out. Its nothing to do with the BNP. The British army does not go into Ireland and start raping women - Israel does in the occupied territory and this has been documented. You can try to get out of it my mixing your argument, but I'm sorry Israeli's are rapists and do use it as a tactic to humiliate Palestinians. Eye witnesses have come out and had these cases documented.
(35)
2008-06-17 12:35:32
Rahul:
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This article has produced many reactions: — Goalshan1) Israeli Military oppressing Palestinians: You guys keep going, I cannot add to your debate. 2) Zahra: Why does it seem that I am the only one agreeing with her. What she says makes sense. Why are Parvez nit-picking so much? Why is Bokuju equating her with Zionism - what's his/her problem? MPACUK DO NOT HOLD A MONOPOLY ON ISLAMIC VIEWS NOR DO THEY SOLELY HAVE THE MORAL UPPER GROUND. I think Parvez and Bokuju (the latter sounds like a mutilation of Bokhari) are MPACUK plants/cronies. You CAN be Muslim AND hold views that do NOT necessarily CORRELATE with MPACUK - IF YOU DISAGREE WITH MPACUK YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A ZIONIST. YOU GUYS AT MPACUK NEED TO CONSIDER GROWING UP! I do not think Zarah is a Zionist at all, i just think her arguments are exactly what holds the Muslims back and the zionists like that so they agree. As for your points being 'Muslim' and not views not correlating with MPAC - what views? You dont seem to have made any points - you just seem to be shouting a lot that you agree with Zahra - fair enough but that takes one line and you seem to have written a whole paragraph.
(36)
2008-06-17 12:42:35
Goalshan:
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Rahul
I am not ranting. I was using uppercase because I do not have the means to emphasise my text in bold. I am not angry. I made my points in a post earlier above. I think the poster was having pot shots at what he /she perceives to be Muslims letting the side down. He/she seems to have singled out practicing muslims. Who does he define as practicing muslims ? my earlier post raised this issue. The poster effectively singled out nearly all muslims in the UK. OK some Muslims are overzealous - instead of MPACUK becoming confrontational and dispising them, how about channelising their positive energy towards good goals? MPACUK as it is appears to operate as a thorn in the side of Islam in the UK. It is merely acting as an irritant. I do not disagree with the main aims of MPACUK, but disagree with the confrontational manner it uses to reach those goals.
(37)
2008-06-18 01:04:38
Hannah:
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....slow clap to that rant....
Yes and Mr Self righteous, in all of that long complaining rant of yours not one solution or practical suggestion was given to us poor "practicing" Muslims only doing the fard 'ayn Allah asked us of us. Enlighten us what EXACTLY on a day to day basis should we do, where is your PROOF for your suggestion, and show us how it has worked. What have YOU doen to alleviate the starving in Africa. My guess is you ain't done skwat! You're just a moaner.
(38)
2008-06-27 12:52:49
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I was just reading a post put on our forum by a brother calling himself ‘Omar 247’, the article caught my eye because it blamed the mosque leaders for something, it was entitled ‘How our mosque Leaders let us down' and can be viewed 
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