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It's Blind Puppet Muslims Who Are Unislamic - Not MPACUK! Print E-mail
Thursday, 22 May 2008

abbeymills_mosque_london.jpgFollowing our stance against the Mega Mosque, MPACUK was hit by a barrage of arguments, the most prominent of all being that our stance against the Mosque was ‘unislamic,’ so we decided to organise a talk and workshop on Saturday 24th for those who are sincere in listening to our reasons behind our stance, who are sincere in their concern for our institutions, unlike those who sat on their ‘Islamic’ high horse without looking at the context behind our stance.

Who, without even bothering to find out what prompted us to resist this Mosque, decided to instead blindly, like puppets, believe that opposing Mosque building is haram and anyone who does so is not Muslim. 

These are the very same people who turn a blind eye to everything by labeling it ‘unislamic’, prime examples being politics is haram, voting is haram (need I go on?). However right now I am not going to go into the argument of why politics and voting are not haram, and how those who think politics is haram are turning a blind eye to their brothers and sisters being oppressed all over the world. No, today I would like to explain part of the reason for MPACUK’s stance against the Mega Mosque. There is a precedent for not building a Mosque if that Mosque isn't needed and if its going to cause more problems than it can solve.

And there are those who put up a mosque by way of mischief and infidelity - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against Allah and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; But Allah doth declare that they are certainly liars.

Never stand thou forth therein. There is a mosque whose foundation was laid from the first day on piety; it is more worthy of the standing forth (for prayer) therein. In it are men who love to be purified; and Allah loveth those who make themselves pure.

Which then is best? - he that layeth his foundation on piety to Allah and His good pleasure? - or he that layeth his foundation on an undermined sand-cliff ready to crumble to pieces? and it doth crumble to pieces with him, into the fire of Hell. And Allah guideth not people that do wrong.

The foundation of those who so build is never free from suspicion and shakiness in their hearts, until their hearts are cut to pieces. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.

(Surah at Tawba, 107-110)



Context in which the verses were revealed

When the Prophet (SAW) first arrived in Medina everyone wanted to have the honour of hosting him (SAW). To not offend anyone he allowed his camel to decide by letting go of its reins and wherever the camel eventually stopped the Prophet (SAW) would stay.

It happened to stop at an orchard owned by two orphans. The land was purchased and the first mosque of Islam was built on this spot and is called Masjid-e-Quba.

Now at the time there was a man called Abu Amir who would have become the leader of Medina if the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) had not arrived to negotiate the ongoing civil war between the Aws and the Khazraj. As Prophet Muhammad (SAW) became the de facto leader of Medina, Abu Amir became more and more bitter and emerged as the leader of the hypocrites.

At the Battle of Tabuk against the Romans, Abu Amir had built a rival mosque next to Masjid-e-Quba called Masjid-e-Zarrar. He had asked Prophet Muhammad (SAW) to sanctify and legitimise it by praying in the Mosque, however Abu Amir really wanted to divide the Muslims and use his mosque to spread propaganda against Islam and Jihad. Prophet Muhammad (SAW) told Abu Amir to wait until after the Battle of Tabuk at which time Allah (SWT) revealed the verses above. After the revelations Prophet Muhammad (SAW) asked that the Mosque be destroyed and that order was carried out.

Explanation

The verses of the Quran use allegory, metaphor and real-world examples to establish precedents and laws. These precedents are for all time and are binding on Muslims. The inclusion of these verses in the Quran by Allah (SWT) was to remind Muslims to come that hypocrisy would infect the Ummah and that positive steps should be taken against it including destroying Mosques that are known places of hypocrisy and division.

The mosque built by Abu Amir was built right next to Masjid-e-Quba. There was no need from a worship point of view to build the mosque. The only purpose it served was to create sectarianism within the Muslim community which would lead to disunity and the weakening of the Ummah. Abu Amir believed that by causing division he could destroy the Muslims from within as all external forces by their enemies had failed due to the unity of the Muslims who were not divided on sectarian or racial lines.

Many have argued that to oppose mosque-building is a sin yet Allah (SWT) in the Quran makes it quite clear that if the mosque will create more problems than it will solve and lead to further disunity then it should not be built. No Muslim can argue against the Quran which has a higher status over hadiths and other Islamic sources.

Mosque building is considered extremely virtous in Islam however only where there is a need to build. Building mosques next to each other dilutes the unity of the community and prevents a single message from being delivered. Mosques built like this tend to create national, ethnic and religious divisions so that mosques become identified by being a "Deobandi mosque" or a "Salafi mosque" or a "Bengali Mosque" and begin to attract a specific type of Muslim into the congregation.

MPACUK poses some questions for you to think about

Now we ask you to think carefully about the following points:

Is there a need for the Mega Mosque to be built?

What kind of problems will the Mega Mosque be solving or will it just be creating more problems? For example:

Will it allow women on the committee?

Will it be non sectarian?

Will the committee be elected by democratic means?

What will its role be in this climate of ever increasing Islamophobia?

Will it stand up for our brother who has been locked up in Guantanomo Bay on no evidence?

Will it stand up for our sister who had her hijab ripped off her head yesterday?

Will it teach them and the rest of the Ummah how to defend ourselves?

The reason for opposing the Mega Mosque is that its just going to be a bigger version of the Mosques we already have in this country. It will be sectarian, women wont be allowed on the committee, it wont be democratic, it wont defend the Muslims, so why do we need a Mega Mosque when its just going to be another prayer hall. Don't we already have enough prayer halls already? What the Muslims in this country need is a MOSQUE, not another prayer hall. The Mega Mosque will not fulfill the needs of the Muslims in this country so for that reason MPACUK oppose the Mega Mosque being built. We will only back them if they are prepared to do something to change the situation we face in this country and teach the Muslims how to defend themselves - until that happens we will continue to oppose them.

Do you still not agree? Still have questions? Then come down to our workshop on Saturday to hear what MPACUK has to say about the role of the Mosques and if you are still not convinced then hold us to account.


Revival Is Our Survival - Visit Our Workshop on Saturday, 24th May

Luther King House,
Brighton Grove (off Wilmslow Road),
Manchester M14 5JP
Free Event – Book Now (Places limited)

Sat 24th May 1.30 – 5.00 pm
Call 0870 760 5594 or email info@mpacuk.org



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Readers have left 27 comments.
SA: Quote

I couldnt agree more. We dont need another Mosque like the ones we currently have...only bigger in size. We need a Mosque not a prayer hall....we already have enough of those!
(1) 2008-05-22 15:28:12
Gina: Quote

I understand better now MPACUK's stance about the Mega Mosque. Very good points you raise here. Thanks for the clarification.
(2) 2008-05-22 15:30:34
MAQ: Quote

Excellent clarification on your position, MPACUK.

You're right, we don't need just another exclusive prayer hall. We need our institutions to work for the community.
(3) 2008-05-22 15:50:41
spot on: Quote

I have to agreed, excellent article, and explained very well. Alhmadillah, this should really now explain it clearly.

Unfortunatley, the rift has set in our city. I swear, I stand in street, and in front of me, a few steps is a mosque and this is filled with Arabs.

If I turn to my right, and just 2 mins walk is another mosque and this is filled with Somalis.

I go down the road, 10 mins walk, and there is another one, and this is for pakistani's apparently. I walked in there and didn't feel I was welcomed at all. I felt a stranger in our own community, SubhanAllah. And I have to say the same with the rest of mosques too.

There is now, much enmity, distored Islam, and even the youths have been talking about for sometime. Actually, many are really upset because why build a million pound mosque when we could use the money for political campaigns.

Why build another mosque, when the other one is suffficient and we can pour the money out, to help our bros and sisters even in our city, and set up entreprises to train, to teach, educate or build in other countries.

I feel, we got enough, and I feel, there is much work to be done, with what we have and really make these work. At moment, we got lots of organisations, lots of mosques, and they are not working together.

Insha-Allah khair, but true, we don't need another exclusive mosque, prayer hall. We got plenty. I wish they could all unite in our city, so the message is the same, so the youths came at same place, and parents too, and really build with what we have.

Wassalaam
(4) 2008-05-22 16:50:34
Ali Abdullah: Quote

I'm glad the MPACUK position has been clarified. Why do we need a mosque like this which would be built for all the wrong reasons!?
(5) 2008-05-22 17:20:59
Faisal: Quote

There is no such thing as the 'Mega Mosque'. The Mosque will be built to accomodate approx 10000-12000 worshippers with a view of operating as a Tabligh Jamaat Markaz. i assume it will have a simplish structure keeping it inline with the other Markaz in UK
(6) 2008-05-22 17:35:19
Reality: Quote

Part 1:

“And as for those who put up a mosque by way of harming and DISBELEIF, and to disunite the believers, and as an outpost for those who WARRED against Allâh and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) aforetime, they will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good. Allâh bears witness that they are certainly liars. Never stand you therein. Verily, the mosque whose foundation was laid from the first day on piety is more worthy that you stand therein (to pray). In it are men who love to clean and to purify themselves. And Allâh loves those who make themselves clean and pure”
(At-Tawbah 9:107-108)


The explanation of this Verse by Ibn Kathir (rh) (died 774 H) from his tafsir:

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=22010
(7) 2008-05-22 21:27:21
Reality: Quote

Part 2:

Here is Ibn Kathirs (rh) commentary in specifically to [9:108]:

(Never stand you therein), until,

(...wrongdoers)Allah said next,

(they will indeed swear), those who built it,

(that their intention is nothing but good.) by building this Masjid we sought the good and the comfort of the people. Allah replied,

Allah bears witness that they are certainly liars) for they only built it to harm Masjid Quba', and out of DISBELEIF in Allah, and to divide the believers. They made it an outpost for those who warred against Allah and His Messenger , such as Abu `Amir the Fasiq who used to be called Ar-Rahib, may Allah curse him!

Allah said

Never stand you therein), prohibiting His Prophet and his Ummah from ever standing in it in prayer.



So from what I can see here from MPACUK’s “Fatwa” issued by “Ayatullah” Asghar Bukhari is that they are declaring the yet to be built “Mega-Mosque” that is going to be run by TJ as Masjid Adh-Dhirar – a Masjid built by Munafiqun (of major kufr such as Abu Amir - May Allah’s Curse be upon him) with intent to harm Muslims and Islam by making the “Mega-Mosque” an outpost to wage war with Allah and His Messenger (saw) out of disbelief to Allah!

And people here agree with this? – That the yet to be built Mega Mosque is Masjid Adh-Dhirar run by Munafiqun (I presume Ashgar means TJ) who harbour an agenda to disunite the Muslims and wage war on Islam from within as a fifth column?

Now - if one wishes to raise issues in regards to the problems of how a Masjids are run or going to be run or what facilities it lacks – that is all fine.

However what I find absolutely astonishing beyond belief is bringing forth these desperate arguments, and levelling these sorts of dangerous charges against Muslims without any precedence from any Alim whatsoever – specifically the delicate task of declaring masjids to be Masjid Adh-Dhirar and implicating nifaq and kufr on TJ.

My questions are:

1. Why this desperate intensity?? First u allied with the likes of secularist apostates such as Ed Hussain (who is currently trying to wage war on Islam – here’s ur “Abu Amir”), and allied with kuffar from Christian fundamentalists and their likes against the building of the Mega Mosque

Now – issuing a “fatwa” declaring it to be Masjid Adh-Dhirar and the implicated charge of nifaq and kufr upon those who will run it.

Where does all this hatred stem from – are u Shiites? And please do answer the question this time.

2. There are up to 2000 mosques in this countrey majority of them do not fit the "masjid criteria" that which u wish - will “Ayatullah” Ashgar Bukhari issue another “fatwa” declaring most of the majids of the UK to be Masjid Adh-Dhirar and urge all Muslim to work for their urgent closure? – Please answer the question and try to be consistent.
(8) 2008-05-22 21:30:31
Reality: Quote

Oh yeah I nearly forgot…………as for ur deceptive procedure in trying to discredit those who may disagree with u in this as simply belonging to the camp of “politics is haram” & “voting is haram” etc think again, here is a fatwa by an alim obligating the Muslims to support the Mega Mosque in fact his one of the shaykhs u quote in ur website endorsing voting!:
(9) 2008-05-22 21:45:20
Reality: Quote

http://www.islamicawakening.com/viewarticle.php?articleID=1293&
(10) 2008-05-22 21:45:57
Reality: Quote

The Obligation to Support the Proposed New Mosque in East London.
Sh Haytham bin Jawwad al-Haddad

Extract from it……………………

“I warn the Muslims who are working and striving against the establishment of this mosque that they may in effect be aligning themselves with those who are classified as hindering people from the path of Allah as mentioned in the Quran; Allah says: [translation of the meaning of (22:25)],

‘Verily! Those who disbelieve and hinder (people) from the Path of Allah, and from the Sacred Masjid (at Makkah) which We have made (open) to (all) men - the dweller in it and the visitor from the country are equal there (as regards its sanctity and pilgrimage) - and whoever inclines to evil actions therein or to do wrong, him We shall cause to taste a painful torment."
[end quote]


U see to me this whole issue just displays how MPACUK is out of touch with the Muslim community – they claim the mosque is sectarian and will hence cause disunity - go around - the support for the mosque is from all quarters of the Muslim community – the fatwa above is from a non-TJ scholar - in fact one cud even say the Muslim community is united on this – while on the other side u have MPACUK, Ed hussain and other hypocrites, and hostile non-Muslims such as the BNP etc – such a disgrace indeed.
(11) 2008-05-22 21:46:39
Muslim Women Fight Back: Quote

Mega Mosque should ONLY be allowed IF men are BANNED!

Make it WOMEN-ONLY' Then only it should get planning permission.

Enough already of men waving their stupid beards up and down all the mosques. They have ruined the Ummah.

Men, Step aside (and stay at home, you have become the laughing-stock of the world).

Women will show you how it should be done.

We will start by teaching the men to read and write.
(12) 2008-05-23 12:25:34
amjad: Quote

Oh yeah I nearly forgot…………as for ur deceptive procedure in trying to discredit those who may disagree with u in this as simply belonging to the camp of “politics is haram” & “voting is haram” etc think again, here is a fatwa by an alim obligating the Muslims to support the Mega Mosque in fact his one of the shaykhs u quote in ur website endorsing voting!:
— Reality


reality you really are a crack pot...

can you please read the article and respond to it rather then try to make this a personal issue between you and bro asghar.
(13) 2008-05-23 15:18:20
jammy: Quote

ERmm excuse me but is this mosque being built because Muslims don't have enough places of worship or is this mosque being built because muslims need a place of worship closer to their homes.

In my opinion for what it is worth, hundreds of thousands of pounds from the community are being raised here and as a dear friend of mine once said we have built the masjids what are we going to build next?

I think he meant that now we have to fill them and looking around our young people today(the next generation) will they be the ones filling this mosque..... will they be the ones occupying it 24 hours a day, due to lack of housing, lack of jobs etc.... because we just wanted to build more and more mosques without thinking about the other needs of the muslim ummah...
(14) 2008-05-23 15:39:14
false reality: Quote

reality Dismore the hard core islamophobe and zionist who has sponsored the killing of muslims goes unchallenged by you on this site, yet your worried about mpac legimate opposition to the mega mosque?

your below contempt.
(15) 2008-05-23 16:08:53
shan: Quote

From my own humble opinion as stated before to mpac was that you should send a action pack to masjids in the U.K.
Informing them what they need to do,to help the community in these testing times and if the masjids written to did not respond their name should be posted on mpac.
It seems this suggestion to date has not been taken up so far.
To point at the short comings of others is easy but to help them rectify those shortcomings is harder but more worthier in the sight of Allah the all mighty.
(16) 2008-05-23 16:58:01
Reality: Quote

Part 1:


reality you really are a crack pot...
— amjad

I will try to keep this as polite as possible, please do not be a blind follower and answer these simple questions instead of going down the usual bankrupt MPACUK method of simply calling those whom may disagree with u - with names:

My questions are:

1. Why this desperate intensity?? First u allied with the likes of secularist apostates such as Ed Hussain (who is currently trying to wage war on Islam – here’s ur “Abu Amir”), and allied with kuffar from Christian fundamentalists and their likes against the building of the Mega Mosque

Now – issuing a “fatwa” declaring it to be Masjid Adh-Dhirar and the implicated charge of nifaq and kufr upon those who will run it.

Where does all this hatred stem from – are u Shiites? And please do answer the question this time.

2. There are up to 2000 mosques in this countrey majority of them do not fit the "masjid criteria" that which u wish - will “Ayatullah” Ashgar Bukhari issue another “fatwa” declaring most of the majids of the UK to be Masjid Adh-Dhirar and urge all Muslim to work for their urgent closure? – Please answer the question and try to be consistent.
— Reality

And to add to them:

The majority of Masjids in the UK do not fit the criteria as what MPACUK (and most other Muslims do want) do YOU amjad -regard them as Masjid Adh-Dhirar too, as MPACUK does (since ur using that Verse against them)? – which will then entail us not to pray in these Masjids as it is FORBDDEN to pray in Masjid Adh-Dhirar – an outpost of the Munafiqun who wage war on Islam from within and will obligate the Muslims to strive for their closure and destruction.

My local Majid is Deobandi run – they don’t have facilities for the sisters their committee is run by the elders and it is not inclusive – what is MPACUK’s and their supporters advice to me – Do I agree with YOU that it is “Masjid Adh-Dhirar” - an outpost of the Munafiqun (of major disbelief) and thus consequently CEASE praying in it and try to rally and campaign with Muslims in the community to CLOSE it down – cos that’s what a Muslim HAS to do to the Masajid Adh-Dhirar.
(17) 2008-05-24 14:31:25
Reality: Quote

Part 2:

I’m not TJ, I don’t agree with Depbandi theology or necessarily how their current Masjids are run so Why Do I support the “Mega Mosque”:

1. It’s a MASJID and I don’t agree with “Ayatullah” Asghar Bukahri that it is a planned outpost of the Munafiqun (of major kufr) who plan to wage war on Islam from within

2. The institution once built will inevitably fall into the hands of the YOUTH in the years to come who can then use this facility to revive Islam and spread Islam effectively - why?:

Because OLD MEN IN MASJIDS DO NOT LIVE FOREVER.

3. Islamophobes, racists and other hostile kuffar who simply hate Islam are hating the idea of the “Mega Mosque” – why? - they see it as a symbol and advancement of Islam in Europe a sign of our presence – a sign that Islam is here to stay and spread:

^^Thus hostile kuffar don’t like the idea which then consequently the Mega Mosque has my support.


While MPACUK (the Trojan Horse) behind all the slogans and rhetoric opposes it for precisely all these 3 reasons.

Every concerned Muslim for his Deen is naturally not going to like how many of our current masjids are run but at the same time we shud be cautious when we hear these slogans for "Mosque reform".

There is a battle for hearts and minds in this current waged war on Islam – an ideological war refer - to the recent beneficial lecture done by Sh Anwar al Awlaki – its posted on ur forum – citing certain think tank reports (funded by the US military) published several; years back in pursuit to in effect CHANGE Islam itself.

One of those RAND Corporation reports talks about policy makers to:

“Foster Madrasha and Mosque reform”

^^in a nutshell to empower uncle tom -“Mullah Bradley’s” in the years and decades to come within our Mosques - in order to control what is taught to Muslims in their objective of creating “RAND Muslims” –to us simply - secularist apostates.
(18) 2008-05-24 14:33:39
Jammy: Quote

I can't believe that the building of a mosque can create so much resentment and name calling amongst muslims, especially as it seems by those in favour of it being built.

Where is our sense of the holy prophet (pbuh)

Did he answer critism with hate?

Did he answer critism with name calling?

Did he build masjids in the name of sects or did he just build masjids?

I would think noooooooo is the answer.

The problem with sects is that when we claim to be from a particular sect we are actually responsible for fragmenting the deen of islam because the whole purpose of a sect is to claim that one sect is right and follows islam correctly and all other sects are wrong and follow islam incorrectly.

Is this what it boils down to allah judging us on what sect we belonged to and all other sects being confined to hell.

How can any sect be right if it sets muslims brother against muslim brother/ sister etc and fragments the ummah????

(19) 2008-05-24 17:09:25
Reality: Quote

I can't believe that the building of a mosque can create so much resentment and name calling amongst muslims, especially as it seems by those in favour of it being built.
— Jammy

@Jammy

With all due respect what r u on about???

The severe resentment, hate and name calling stems from MPACUK alone! – they just declared the - to be built “mega mosque” as Masjid Adh-Dhirar by using that Verse against them!!

Do u understand the implications from this declaration and what it entails?! Please re-read my previous posts!

And the Mega-Mosque is going to be run by TJ – & I’m not TJ!! So there goes ur sectarian argument out of the window – the Muslims are united on this. The only sectarianism stems from MPACUK who probably belong to the same sect as Ed Hussein.
(20) 2008-05-24 19:53:49
Jammy: Quote

"....The Muslims are united on this. The only sectarianism stems from MPACUK who probably belong to the same sect as Ed Hussein".

Are you saying that mpac are not Muslims reality and this from someone that supports another mega mosque being built.
Can you prove your allegation of linking ed hussain to mpac in which case if you are a true muslim you shouldn't even be making the accusation.

If mpac make comments you don't like or critise what you are doing why do you have to respond in the same manner?

Shouldn't you be responding in an Islamic manner? By just blindly accusing someone of being a disbeliever and accusing them of acting as a hinderance to the path of Allah is not helpful either.

What is being missed here are the INTENTIONS of mpac behind this stance whilst I think only allah knows the intentions of those who are in favour of building another mega mosque.
(21) 2008-05-25 11:58:34
Jammy: Quote

With all due respect brother rality - it took be a while to fathom out what you mean by being TJ or not being TJ. This might be because the words TJ do not mean anything to some Muslims whilst to others Muslims they might.

You then say that the mosque is not sectarianism and that Muslims are united.
(22) 2008-05-25 12:07:00
A A: Quote

Bro reality,

You jump to many conclusions and your slandering and method of addressing people is un-Islamic.

You patronise those who reply to you and you seem to be showing symptoms of "Ummul Amraadh" (Mother of all ailments)which is kibr.

Do you personally know all members of MPAC? Have you met them all? Have seen what is in their hearts.

Do you realise that MPAC is non-sectarian?

I personally know many of them whom I have met at events and I can say that they are indeed very sincere Muslims.

Bro, you are committing a fitnah and a haraam act by slandering Muslims based on your misguided hunches.

Please reflect on what you are doing and get to know people better.

Jazakallah for your cooperation bro. I hope Allah will forgive you for your mistakes as do I pray He forgives mine.

WS
(23) 2008-05-25 22:41:38
Reality: Quote

@Jammy & AA

Bros,

If u wish to talk about slandering and declaring Muslims to be Kuffar – talk on the precise tissue of declaring the Mega Mosque to be Masjid Adh-Dhirar and the implicated charge of kufr and nifaq on TJ!

U can talk about my “adab problems” all day - but do try to tackle the issue that is been raised here.

I’m just simply dealing with this issue exactly how MPAC's role model the infallible -“Ayatullah” Asghar Bukhari wud do!!

“slandering Muslims, un-Islamic, causing fitna???” - what?! – give me a break!! << and that’s exactly how Asghar wud have responded.
(24) 2008-05-26 13:43:04
Muhammad Wajid: Quote

Asalaam Alaikum,

I read this article with dismay. On the multiple occasions i have had a chance to meet MPACKUK members inc. brother Asghar, we have agreed and disagreed on issues. However, one thing I have noted is an inability to concede that perhaps a certain viewpoint maybe (just maybe) ill conceived.

On the face of it, your idealism is wonderful. Yes, we should hold Mosques to higher standards. They should be community centres, places to organise and become active, inclusive to young and old etc... and not just simple prayer halls. Only the ignorant and the treacherous would argue against this.

We also agree that Mosques across the UK by in large fall far too short of the ideal. In fact, they barely function on any level apart from being personal fiefdoms and prayer halls.

BUT, and this is the big disclaimer - is the answer to this problem the suspension of building large prayer halls? I would advocate NO. The position of the scholars of Islam are unanimous in this regard and apart from a few secularist liberals like Ghiyassudin Siddiqui not one Muslim of any persuasion would find it easy to oppose the building of a Mosque.

The theological justification you have given applies to a Mosque run by hypocrites which actively spreads mischief and NOT a poorly organised unrepresentative Mosque which is more inept rather than corrupt. Please bring scholars to back your explanation of the verses and extrapolation to the situation and I bet that you will be unable to do so.

Your line of argument is very much regressive. Let me explain, in Saudi (I grew up there) there is a tendency amongst some of the scholars to attack the object of bidaa rather than the practice of it. So, for example, if they find that people visit the location of the Prophet (SAW)'s birthplace, their answer is to destroy the location rather than change the beaviour. This logic is counterproductive and nonsensical. It makes as little sense as opposing the building of the Mosque just because you know it will not be the ideal Mosque.

In doing so, MPACKUK has also handily joined forces with many of its own worst critics and enemies who fear that the Mosque will be another symbol of Islam in London and may advocate "regressive Islamic" views like hijaab, prayer and even Muslim advocacy.

Case in point? I used to go to Finsbury Park Mosque when it was a real dump. The Mosque was falling apart, they spent their time fighting everyone and nothing seemed to work. It was the ultimate symbol of Mosque gone wrong. Now, look at it. New team, new Imam and new outlook. The new Finsbury Park Mosque is a hive of innovation and activity with the youth and females getting involved. The new imam brings with him professionalism and passion that is inspiring the community. Its not hard to believe that other mosques can go the same way, but if you oppose the building of them then we'll never know and we can never try. By opposing the building of it in the first place, you are denying us all the opportunity to make it a better place - even if in the future.

MPACUK, you've missed a trick here. Rather than opposing the Mosque, you should have supported the building of it heavily. You should have offered to help once the Mosque is built inshaAllah and maybe you could have used it to further some of your other campaigns which are slightly more thought through. Instead, you've alienated many who would be your friends.

It isn't too late though. Change your stance. Btw - i would have loved to come to your meeting explaining your issues and debated but work doesnt permit me. I'd be more than happy to have an email exchange?
(25) 2008-06-11 13:47:25
Shah Jahan: Quote

Asalaam Alaikum,

I read this article with dismay. On the multiple occasions i have had a chance to meet MPACKUK members inc. brother Asghar, we have agreed and disagreed on issues. However, one thing I have noted is an inability to concede that perhaps a certain viewpoint maybe (just maybe) ill conceived.

On the face of it, your idealism is wonderful. Yes, we should hold Mosques to higher standards. They should be community centres, places to organise and become active, inclusive to young and old etc... and not just simple prayer halls. Only the ignorant and the treacherous would argue against this.

We also agree that Mosques across the UK by in large fall far too short of the ideal. In fact, they barely function on any level apart from being personal fiefdoms and prayer halls.

BUT, and this is the big disclaimer - is the answer to this problem the suspension of building large prayer halls? I would advocate NO. The position of the scholars of Islam are unanimous in this regard and apart from a few secularist liberals like Ghiyassudin Siddiqui not one Muslim of any persuasion would find it easy to oppose the building of a Mosque.

The theological justification you have given applies to a Mosque run by hypocrites which actively spreads mischief and NOT a poorly organised unrepresentative Mosque which is more inept rather than corrupt. Please bring scholars to back your explanation of the verses and extrapolation to the situation and I bet that you will be unable to do so.

Your line of argument is very much regressive. Let me explain, in Saudi (I grew up there) there is a tendency amongst some of the scholars to attack the object of bidaa rather than the practice of it. So, for example, if they find that people visit the location of the Prophet (SAW)'s birthplace, their answer is to destroy the location rather than change the beaviour. This logic is counterproductive and nonsensical. It makes as little sense as opposing the building of the Mosque just because you know it will not be the ideal Mosque.

In doing so, MPACKUK has also handily joined forces with many of its own worst critics and enemies who fear that the Mosque will be another symbol of Islam in London and may advocate "regressive Islamic" views like hijaab, prayer and even Muslim advocacy.

Case in point? I used to go to Finsbury Park Mosque when it was a real dump. The Mosque was falling apart, they spent their time fighting everyone and nothing seemed to work. It was the ultimate symbol of Mosque gone wrong. Now, look at it. New team, new Imam and new outlook. The new Finsbury Park Mosque is a hive of innovation and activity with the youth and females getting involved. The new imam brings with him professionalism and passion that is inspiring the community. Its not hard to believe that other mosques can go the same way, but if you oppose the building of them then we'll never know and we can never try. By opposing the building of it in the first place, you are denying us all the opportunity to make it a better place - even if in the future.

MPACUK, you've missed a trick here. Rather than opposing the Mosque, you should have supported the building of it heavily. You should have offered to help once the Mosque is built inshaAllah and maybe you could have used it to further some of your other campaigns which are slightly more thought through. Instead, you've alienated many who would be your friends.

It isn't too late though. Change your stance. Btw - i would have loved to come to your meeting explaining your issues and debated but work doesnt permit me. I'd be more than happy to have an email exchange?
— Muhammad Wajid


Asalaam Alaikum,

Brother Muhammad, after reading all the comments yours is the only one that makes sense.

I agree with you, MPACUK has taken a stance that has alienated muslims.

They should have supported the construction of the masjid and worked to make it a model masjid.
(26) 2008-07-25 18:13:32
Shah Jahan: Quote

Also, there seems to be a lot of arguments arousing from this subject but everyone seemed to stay quiet when plans where put in place for the construction of the Baitul Futuh masjid in Morden Surrey. Which is regarded as the largest masjid in the UK, with a capacity of 10,000.
(27) 2008-07-25 18:16:25
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