| The Nakba for Dummies |
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| Saturday, 17 May 2008 | |
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What is the Nakba? Readers have left 49 comments.
kam:
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In listing the reasons for the Arab failure in 1948, Khaled al-
Azm (Syrian Prime Minister) notes that “…the fifth factor was the call by the Arab governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it (Palestine) and leave for the bordering Arab countries. Since 1948, it is we who have demanded the return of the refugees, while it is we who made them leave. We brought disaster upon a million Arab refugees by inviting them and bringing pressure on them to leave. We have accustomed them to begging...we have participated in lowering their morale and social level...Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson and throwing stones upon men, women and children...all this in the service of political purposes...” -- Khaled el- Azm, Syrian prime minister after the 1948 War, in his 1972 memoirs, published in 1973.
(1)
2008-05-17 11:18:09
kam:
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“The 15th May, 1948, arrived ... On that day the mufti of
Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead.” -- The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, October 12, 1963.
(2)
2008-05-17 11:19:52
kam:
Quote
“Since 1948, the Arab leaders have approached the Palestinian
problem in an irresponsible manner. They have used to Palestinian people for political purposes; this is ridiculous, I might even say criminal...” -- King Hussein, Hashemite kingdom of Jordan, 1996.
(3)
2008-05-17 11:21:44
kam:
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“The Arab Exodus …was not caused by the actual battle, but
by the exaggerated description spread by the Arab leaders to incite them to fight the Jews. …For the flight and fall of the other villages it is our leaders who are responsible because of their dissemination of rumors exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs ... By spreading rumors of Jewish atrocities, killings of women and children etc., they instilled fear and terror in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled leaving their homes and properties to the enemy.” – The Jordanian daily newspaper Al Urdun, April 9, 1953.
(4)
2008-05-17 11:27:37
kam:
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Sir John Troutbeck, British Middle East Office in Cairo,
noted in cables to superiors (1948-49) that the refugees (in Gaza) have no bitterness against Jews, but harbor intense hatred toward Egyptians: “They say ‘we know who our enemies are (referring to the Egyptians)’, declaring that their Arab brethren persuaded them unnecessarily to leave their homes…I even heard it said that many of the refugees would give a welcome to the Israelis if they were to come in and take the district over.”
(5)
2008-05-17 11:34:19
kam:
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Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) wrote an article in March 1976 in
Falastin al-Thawra, the official journal of the PLO in Beirut: “The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe.” As Abu Mazen alluded, it was in large part due to threats and fearmongering from Arab leaders that some 700,000 Arabs fled Israel in 1948 when the new state was invaded by Arab armies. Ever since, the growing refugee population, now around 4 million by UN estimates, has been corralled into squalid camps scattered across the Middle East - in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Gaza, and the West Bank. In 1950, the UN set up the United Nations Relief and Works Agency as a temporary relief effort for Palestinian refugees. Former UNRWA director Ralph Galloway stated eight years later that, “the Arab states do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore, as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders do not give a damn whether Arab refugees live or die. The only thing that has changed since [1949] is the number of Palestinians cooped up in these prison camps.”
(6)
2008-05-17 11:39:28
kam:
Quote
“Abu Mazen Charges that the Arab States Are the Cause of the
Palestinian Refugee Problem” (Wall Street Journal; June 5, 2003):
(7)
2008-05-17 11:41:11
ahmed:
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In 1967, the Arab states again launched an aggressive war against
Israel and as a result Israel became the governing authority in the Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula, the Golan Heights, and in the West Bank. Under Israeli rule from 1967 to 1992, The Palestinian population of the West Bank experienced the highest standard of living of any Arab country with the exception of the oil states. The same is true of Arab Israelis. The Arab population of the West Bank and Gaza has tripled since June 1967! By contrast, since the transfer of authority in the West Bank to the PLO in 1993, the condition of the Palestinian population under the Palestinian Authority has declined precipitously. The standard of living of the West Bank Palestinians has eroded, and GDP is one-tenth of what it was under Israeli control. This is due to the mis-appropriation of more than $5.2 billion by the rule of the Palestinian Authority into the personal accounts of Arafat and his lieutenants for weapons stock-piling, neglect of the infrastructure, and due to the continuous terror war, against which Israel must exercise defensive controls and deterrents. Justice for Jewish and Arab refugees could have been part of a peace settlement if the Arab states had been willing. Today, solutions are possible, but only if the Palestinian Authority will stop its new war of terror.
(8)
2008-05-17 11:47:06
kam:
Quote
“The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence
of the act of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem.” – Emile Ghoury, secretary of the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, in an interview with the Beirut Telegraph September 6, 1948. (same appeared in The London Telegraph, August 1948)
(9)
2008-05-17 11:54:35
kam:
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“The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order
of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city.... By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa.” -- Time Magazine, May 3, 1948, page 25
(10)
2008-05-17 11:56:10
kam:
Quote
“Every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab
populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe.” -- Haifa District HQ of the British Police, April 26, 1948, (quoted in Battleground by Samuel Katz).
(11)
2008-05-17 11:57:52
kam:
Quote
“The most potent factor [in the flight of Palestinians] was the
announcements made over the air by the Arab-Palestinian Higher Executive, urging all Haifa Arabs to quit... It was clearly intimated that Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades.” -- London Economist October 2, 1948
(12)
2008-05-17 12:01:57
Tahira:
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Do you SEE how active Zionists are in spreading their propaganda?
Muslims WAKE UP!
(13)
2008-05-17 16:33:10
Tahira:
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Do you SEE how active Zionists are in spreading their propaganda?
Muslims WAKE UP!
(14)
2008-05-17 16:33:10
Kam2:
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If anyone could have made hitler look good it was this kind of kam's propaganda machine kam and thank god decent right minded thinking people woke up to the real hitler before it was to late by.
This kind of propaganda is the same as saying slavery of black people was a good thing as it gave them something to do or the aborigines din't deserve to live in australia because they didn't really make use of its resources anyway. Any evil action in history can be twisted and excuses made as to evil actions but evil is evil and the way the palestinians have been treated israeli forces trying to conduct their own ethnic cleansing is evil.
(15)
2008-05-17 20:29:26
mick:
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On April 3rd, 2008 US passed a legislation urging the president that any reference to Palestinian refugees must “also include a similarly explicit reference to the resolution of the issue of Jewish refugees from Arab countries.” [3].
Joseph Crowley (D-NY) one of the sponsors of the bipartisan decision - which passed without objections - said: “The world needs to understand that it is not just the Arabs and it’s not just the Palestinians in the Middle East, but also Jewish people who themselves were dispossessed of their possessions and their homes, and were victims of terrorist acts. These are people who lived in Middle Eastern communities not for decades, but for thousands of years.” Mr. Crowley added that the resolution will “bring light upon an issue that has been swept under the carpet.” “Discussions of Middle Eastern refugees invariably focus exclusively—and shortsightedly—on the plight of those of Palestinian descent,” said Rep. Ros-Lehtinen. “Far fewer people are aware of the injustice faced by Jewish refugees from Arab lands and Iran. Many Jews saw their communities, which had existed vibrantly for centuries, systematically dismantled. They lost their resources, their homes, and their heritage sites, fleeing in the face of persecution, pogroms, revolutions, and brutal dictatorships.” yeah wake up Muslims! not everything is as black and white learn the facts of both sides and somewhere between the lines you might find some of the truth THINK for yourself ASK questions.
(16)
2008-05-17 20:30:39
Zubair:
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Do you SEE how active Zionists are in spreading their propaganda? — TahiraMuslims WAKE UP! Absolutely! As per the usual Zionist tactic blame the refugees, blame the arab governments...in short blame everyone apart from Israel. Pathetic!
(17)
2008-05-17 20:41:43
Kam2:
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You can quote as many people asyou want kam and you may even misquote them for your very own evil purposes as I have said there is no justification for the evil that the israselis inflict on a daily basis upon the palestinians.
(18)
2008-05-18 10:12:39
kam2:
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In listing the reasons for the Arab failure in 1948, Khaled al- — kamAzm (Syrian Prime Minister) notes that “…the fifth factor was the call by the Arab governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it (Palestine) and leave for the bordering Arab countries. Since 1948, it is we who have demanded the return of the refugees, while it is we who made them leave. We brought disaster upon a million Arab refugees by inviting them and bringing pressure on them to leave. We have accustomed them to begging...we have participated in lowering their morale and social level...Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson and throwing stones upon men, women and children...all this in the service of political purposes...” -- Khaled el- Azm, Syrian prime minister after the 1948 War, in his 1972 memoirs, published in 1973. How does this justify Israeli's evil kam? Just why were palestinains encouraged to flee their lands? please tell us kam?
(19)
2008-05-18 10:18:52
kam2:
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“The 15th May, 1948, arrived ... On that day the mufti of — kamJerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead.” -- The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, October 12, 1963. Why did the arab armies have to fight kam? Who were they going to fight against and for what reason kam? Why weren't the palestinains able to fight themselves kam?
(20)
2008-05-18 10:20:32
kam2:
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“Since 1948, the Arab leaders have approached the Palestinian — kamproblem in an irresponsible manner. They have used to Palestinian people for political purposes; this is ridiculous, I might even say criminal...” -- King Hussein, Hashemite kingdom of Jordan, 1996. Are you trying to say that the arabs are responsible for the jewish invasion of palestine kam?
(21)
2008-05-18 10:22:12
kam2:
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“The Arab Exodus …was not caused by the actual battle, but — kamby the exaggerated description spread by the Arab leaders to incite them to fight the Jews. …For the flight and fall of the other villages it is our leaders who are responsible because of their dissemination of rumors exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs ... By spreading rumors of Jewish atrocities, killings of women and children etc., they instilled fear and terror in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled leaving their homes and properties to the enemy.” – The Jordanian daily newspaper Al Urdun, April 9, 1953. Are you saying that this newspaper opinion is factual kam or are you just selective in what you would like to believe? Without the invasion of palestine none of this needed to have happended did it?
(22)
2008-05-18 10:25:32
kam2:
Quote
Sir John Troutbeck, British Middle East Office in Cairo, — kamnoted in cables to superiors (1948-49) that the refugees (in Gaza) have no bitterness against Jews, but harbor intense hatred toward Egyptians: “They say ‘we know who our enemies are (referring to the Egyptians)’, declaring that their Arab brethren persuaded them unnecessarily to leave their homes…I even heard it said that many of the refugees would give a welcome to the Israelis if they were to come in and take the district over.” Good old divide and rule tactics then kam? If everything else fails then balme it on someone else isn't that right?
(23)
2008-05-18 10:28:00
kam2:
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Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) wrote an article in March 1976 in — kamFalastin al-Thawra, the official journal of the PLO in Beirut: “The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe.” As Abu Mazen alluded, it was in large part due to threats and fearmongering from Arab leaders that some 700,000 Arabs fled Israel in 1948 when the new state was invaded by Arab armies. Ever since, the growing refugee population, now around 4 million by UN estimates, has been corralled into squalid camps scattered across the Middle East - in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Gaza, and the West Bank. In 1950, the UN set up the United Nations Relief and Works Agency as a temporary relief effort for Palestinian refugees. Former UNRWA director Ralph Galloway stated eight years later that, “the Arab states do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore, as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders do not give a damn whether Arab refugees live or die. The only thing that has changed since [1949] is the number of Palestinians cooped up in these prison camps.” Nothing I have read so far shows that Isreal is anything but an angelic state kam? Are you sure you're not biased and just trying to get the arabs to fight amongts themselves? Afterall this openess and willingness to be self-critical is only displayed in free and democratic nations isn't it?
(24)
2008-05-18 10:35:19
kam2:
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“Abu Mazen Charges that the Arab States Are the Cause of the — kamPalestinian Refugee Problem” (Wall Street Journal; June 5, 2003): Isn't it good that even though the israelis consider the palestinians as sub-human that the arab countries are still wiilling to stand by them? By the way why are the palestinains refugees kam?
(25)
2008-05-18 10:37:57
kam2:
Quote
In 1967, the Arab states again launched an aggressive war against — ahmedIsrael and as a result Israel became the governing authority in the Gaza Strip, Sinai Peninsula, the Golan Heights, and in the West Bank. Under Israeli rule from 1967 to 1992, The Palestinian population of the West Bank experienced the highest standard of living of any Arab country with the exception of the oil states. The same is true of Arab Israelis. The Arab population of the West Bank and Gaza has tripled since June 1967! By contrast, since the transfer of authority in the West Bank to the PLO in 1993, the condition of the Palestinian population under the Palestinian Authority has declined precipitously. The standard of living of the West Bank Palestinians has eroded, and GDP is one-tenth of what it was under Israeli control. This is due to the mis-appropriation of more than $5.2 billion by the rule of the Palestinian Authority into the personal accounts of Arafat and his lieutenants for weapons stock-piling, neglect of the infrastructure, and due to the continuous terror war, against which Israel must exercise defensive controls and deterrents. Justice for Jewish and Arab refugees could have been part of a peace settlement if the Arab states had been willing. Today, solutions are possible, but only if the Palestinian Authority will stop its new war of terror. Why have you decided to change your name kam?
(26)
2008-05-18 10:39:15
kam2:
Quote
“The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence — kamof the act of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem.” – Emile Ghoury, secretary of the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, in an interview with the Beirut Telegraph September 6, 1948. (same appeared in The London Telegraph, August 1948) So someone expresses an opinion that you want to agree with then kam? All you are doing is showing how the palestinians and arab countries have always wanted peace but the isrealis have always wanted to spread their propaganda and grab more land.
(27)
2008-05-18 10:41:43
kam2:
Quote
“The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order — kamof Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of Haifa a ghost city.... By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa.” -- Time Magazine, May 3, 1948, page 25 You really should start putting you quotes into context kam and so far there has not been a single condemnation of israeli aggression. Why are the palestinins refugees again kam? What started all this?
(28)
2008-05-18 10:44:25
kam2:
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“Every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab — kampopulace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe.” -- Haifa District HQ of the British Police, April 26, 1948, (quoted in Battleground by Samuel Katz). I think you're making up your own quotes as you have a vested interest kam? Just why did the palestinains find any of the people who were asking them to leave believable? Maybe they could see with their own eyes and first hand expriences as to what was happending to them and their families, neighbours and other palestinains otherwise why would you want to beleive waht someone said about having to leave your home?
(29)
2008-05-18 10:48:36
kam2:
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“The most potent factor [in the flight of Palestinians] was the — kamannouncements made over the air by the Arab-Palestinian Higher Executive, urging all Haifa Arabs to quit... It was clearly intimated that Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades.” -- London Economist October 2, 1948 Are you saying that the london economist was expressing a fact kam? Why was this announcement made and why didn't did it say well the jews love you really muslim arabs really?
(30)
2008-05-18 10:51:22
kam2:
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On April 3rd, 2008 US passed a legislation urging the president that any reference to Palestinian refugees must “also include a similarly explicit reference to the resolution of the issue of Jewish refugees from Arab countries.” [3]. — mickJoseph Crowley (D-NY) one of the sponsors of the bipartisan decision - which passed without objections - said: “The world needs to understand that it is not just the Arabs and it’s not just the Palestinians in the Middle East, but also Jewish people who themselves were dispossessed of their possessions and their homes, and were victims of terrorist acts. These are people who lived in Middle Eastern communities not for decades, but for thousands of years.” Mr. Crowley added that the resolution will “bring light upon an issue that has been swept under the carpet.” “Discussions of Middle Eastern refugees invariably focus exclusively—and shortsightedly—on the plight of those of Palestinian descent,” said Rep. Ros-Lehtinen. “Far fewer people are aware of the injustice faced by Jewish refugees from Arab lands and Iran. Many Jews saw their communities, which had existed vibrantly for centuries, systematically dismantled. They lost their resources, their homes, and their heritage sites, fleeing in the face of persecution, pogroms, revolutions, and brutal dictatorships.” yeah wake up Muslims! not everything is as black and white learn the facts of both sides and somewhere between the lines you might find some of the truth THINK for yourself ASK questions. You right kam we shoudl ask question and my first is? why have you decided to change your name again kam?
(31)
2008-05-18 10:53:56
stu:
Quote
"In listing the reasons for the Arab failure in 1948, Khaled al-
Azm (Syrian Prime Minister) notes that “…the fifth factor was" I just want to know what the other four factors were
(32)
2008-05-18 13:31:44
kam:
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Israel is the only known country in all of history to
come into existence via legal and beneficial land development (as opposed to the almost universal method of conquest). Israel’s victory in the 1948 war and in the 1967 war, in which it was the victim of genocidal aggression, and the refusal of Arab nations to join it in peace negotiations, give Israel the legal right to maintain its sovereignty over its newly won territories, and to develop those territories in any manner that is not prejudicial to the well-being of the indigenous civilians. Had Arab leaders been amenable to peace with Israel, there could have been a Palestinian state in 1937, and again in 1947, and again in 1949; and there would never have been an Arab refugee problem.
(33)
2008-05-18 17:44:28
kam:
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Contrary to current Arab propaganda, but congruent with all
news accounts contemporary to the events, Israel was the victim of Arab genocidal aggression in the 1967 War. On May 15, 1967, Egypt demanded that the UN peacekeeping forces, in place since the Sinai Campaign, evacuate at once. UN Secretary General U-Thant, for reasons never fully clarified, complied at once. Then, Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran, blocking the Israeli port of Eilat for shipping, and moved two tank battalions and 150,000 troops right up to Israel’s western border.
(34)
2008-05-18 17:52:08
kam:
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The reason why there was no agitation among Palestinians for
their own national identity prior to 1967 is perfectly clear. The concept of Palestine as a nation and Palestinians as a separate people did not exist among the Arabs of the Turkish provinces that became British Mandatory Palestine after World War I. Despite the contorted, forced, and contrived narratives of apologists for the Palestinian war against Israel like Rashid Khalidi, Baruch Kimmerling and others, there was never any state called Palestine, no country inhabited by “Palestinians”, and before 1967 no concept of a separate political, cultural, or linguistic entity representing a defined group that could be identified by such an appellation.
(35)
2008-05-18 17:59:38
kam:
Quote
In a March 31, 1977 interview with the Amsterdam-based
newspaper Dagblad de Verdieping Trouw, PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhse’in said: “The Palestinian people does not exist. 8 Yasir Arafat in his authorized biography, “Arafat: Terrorist or Peace Maker”, by Alan Hart, 1982 The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people’ to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
(36)
2008-05-18 18:03:08
kam:
Quote
Syrian 5th Grade social studies textbooks show
“Greater Syria” as Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Israel. There is no nation called Palestine. The concept of “Palestinians” as Arabs living for millennia in “historic Palestine” is a fiction created for the political and military purposes described by Zahir Muhse’in. This latter day frenzy of Palestinian agitations for national self-determination is simply the faux mantle of respectability behind which genocidal Arab terrorism can be perpetrated against Israel with the support of international do-gooders and “idealists.” After the Holocaust, Western liberals cannot look kindly upon genocidal terrorism; but they can embrace warmly and enthusiastically the deep and heartfelt yearnings of an oppressed people struggling to be free. Hence, Arafat’s terrorist propagandists needed to invent the lies of Palestinian National Identity and Israeli occupation and oppression.
(37)
2008-05-18 18:10:26
kam:
Quote
In August 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza strip
and removed all Israeli settlements from the area, along with all 8,500 Jewish settlers. In addition, Israel dismantled settlements at the northern part of the West Bank. Israel had made an historically unprecedented concession in an attempt to jump-start the peace process, and demonstrate to the Palestinians that it was willing to trade land for peace. Yet, there was no movement on the part of any Palestinian leader to reciprocate. Instead there were terrorist leaders on Arab TV, radio, newspapers, all declaring that the withdrawal was a great victory for Arab terrorism, and that the terrorist attacks must escalate so that Israel could be annihilated and all of Palestine “liberated.” In other words, the problem is not the settlements. They were dismantled. The problem is the existence of Jews in the land between the Jordan River and the sea, and the commitment of the Arab terrorist leadership to the destruction of Israel and the genocide of its people.
(38)
2008-05-18 20:53:51
RSD:
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This is conflict will not be resolved until each side under its own motivation acknowledges the injuries done to the other side. This includes the pre-1856 sectarian apartheid style government, the massacres stretching back into the 18th century, the nature of the occupation, the failures of government and leadership, etc etc. Unfortunately those so-called supporters of both sides discourage any real progress towards self-honesty.
(39)
2008-05-19 08:52:09
shan:
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What KAM is stating is that might is right and i agree with him that is the case.
but i do wish to ad that might is not anyones patent right,it is a slippery thing and the time for the other person to have the boot is approaching.
(40)
2008-05-19 11:04:05
KAM3:
Quote
RDS,
I AGREE BUT THAT ENTAILS BOTH SIDES TO THINK IN THE SAME TERMS. ARE YOU AWARE OF THE MEANING TO THE RADICALS OF 1/ DARL AL ISLAM AND DARL AL HARB? 2/ "1ST COMES SATURDAY THEN COMES SUNDAY? 3/ MOHAMMED (PBUH) WHY (PBUM)WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHY DO MOSLIMS SAY IT EVERY TIME THEY MENTION MOHAMMED ?
(41)
2008-05-19 12:05:05
Kam2:
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You haven't answered a single question kam but just want to spread the hate and contempt that israel has for humanity and the international community including un resolutions and the international courts.
(42)
2008-05-19 15:59:40
RSD:
Quote
Kam3 - I am perfectly aware of the terms of Dar El Islam / Harb / Dhimmi, and how they have been applied over history and how their legacy informs both sides paradigms in this conflict. I am also aware that Christianity when it split from Judaism established Sunday rather than Saturday as the Sabbath. I am also aware that Muslim invite Praise Be Upon Him when they invoke the name of Muhammed out of respect to the founder of their religion. However this does not diminish nor does it augment my statements. Until the perpetrators of violence in its many forms acknowledge their own wrong doing will there be any leaningful progression towards peaceful co-existance. I remain deeply disappointed that many contributors to the MPACUK site cannot move beyond their own introspection and begin to understand the motivations and hurts of others. Were the Israelis and Palestinians and their respective supporters to progress beyond this largely self-destructive introspection the promise for the future is enormous. It is a future which could entail the combined Israel / Palestine / Jordan (& Lebanon?) becoming an example of how ordinary people can share equally in the commonwealth of the nation states. As one Jordanian writer recently pointed out, the most galling aspect of Israel is that it appears to be a rather nice place to live and Jordan and elsewhere in the region seem so awful in comparison. There is much to be gained through peace and sharing the land, and little or nothing to be gained through constant war.
(43)
2008-05-19 18:47:18
Kam2:
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RDS, — KAM3I AGREE BUT THAT ENTAILS BOTH SIDES TO THINK IN THE SAME TERMS. ARE YOU AWARE OF THE MEANING TO THE RADICALS OF 1/ DARL AL ISLAM AND DARL AL HARB? 2/ "1ST COMES SATURDAY THEN COMES SUNDAY? 3/ MOHAMMED (PBUH) WHY (PBUM)WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHY DO MOSLIMS SAY IT EVERY TIME THEY MENTION MOHAMMED ? Go on tell us then kam??
(44)
2008-05-19 19:09:40
kam2:
Quote
"I remain deeply disappointed that many contributors to the MPACUK site cannot move beyond their own introspection and begin to understand the motivations and hurts of others".
RSD i can understand your total dispapoint that you feel unable to brainwash mpac and others into your twisted reconing whereby only israeli jews have been the victim of injustice. You should start clearing thine own eye instead of casting the first stone against others.
(45)
2008-05-20 15:23:44
RSD:
Quote
Kam2 - It is sign of maturity and a developed intellect to be able to move beyond one's self and appreciate the emotions and motivations of others. It is only through understanding the "other" that individuals and communities can expect that their own issues will be addressed. It is of course difficult and challenging, but not to embrace this condemns all sides to an endless cycle of violence and oppression. I do not exclude the Israelis and their supporters from this admonishment, but it is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect something from them that it is not expected from others, and to do so merely fuels their sense of continuing victimisation. There are many who will not or cannot countenance critical self-examnination, and this can only be rooted either in immaturity or fear of the outcome.
(46)
2008-05-21 11:50:31
Jackson:
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Sir John Troutbeck, British Middle East Office in Cairo, — kamnoted in cables to superiors (1948-49) that the refugees (in Gaza) have no bitterness against Jews, but harbor intense hatred toward Egyptians: “They say ‘we know who our enemies are (referring to the Egyptians)’, declaring that their Arab brethren persuaded them unnecessarily to leave their homes…I even heard it said that many of the refugees would give a welcome to the Israelis if they were to come in and take the district over.” "There was a big British camp in Sarafand. When they withdrew, they left the tanks, cannons and guns for the Jews. We only had old rifles. Some people sold their wives' gold to buy guns to defend themselves. Jews used to live in a high area and they placed cannons to shoot down at us (Gaza, 1st generation, male)" http://www.rsc.ox.ac.uk/ (search for nakba) I'll be damned if I take the word of a British Official!
(48)
2008-05-21 22:29:15
Theo:
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There were some British that were appalled at the happenings there. And there are some British who are trying collect the witness stories so that the accounts are never forgotten. You cant paint everyone with the same brush. The same way not all Jews are Zionists. The same way not all Muslims are extremists or suicide bombers.
(49)
2008-06-12 13:25:32
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This year the Nakba will be remembering 60 years of occupation and 60 years of inhumane terror and injustice. Some children will have been born refugees and have now grown old as refugees. This year Israel will be celebrating 60 years of an independent state. 60 years of denying the right of refugees to return, under the UN law. 60 years of contempt. 60 years of pride of their actions
This particular mass execution was infamously led by the former Israeli President Menachem Begin, as Zionist forces cleared the area for Israeli settlers.











