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| 'Voting is Haram,' say Witless Hypocrites |
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| Tuesday, 15 April 2008 | |
 Those who say voting is haram are witless hypocrites. I had the
misfortune of bumping into a few of them recently whilst at the youth
conference in North London Mosque. The arguments they were using
included statements like “I don’t want to mix with taghout brother”, “I
don’t want
blood on my hands”, “voting is haram”, “seeking help from the kuffar is
haram”.No matter how much I tried, I couldn’t get any sense through their thick skulls so I thought I’d share my thoughts with MPACUK. Whether these people like it or not, they are engaging in British society. Food, shelter and security doesn’t land from the sky as everybody here has to work. Those that are employed, pay tax. i.e. fund government decisions, but do not want to have a say in how the money is spent by not wanting to vote. As long as they can feed their own stomach with the money they earn, they don’t give a hoot about how the rest of their money is spent. MPs, Mayors, Councillors are all public servants. They work for you. The public employ them by using their right to vote. Those Muslims that work for non-Muslim employers are quite willing to be employed by non-Muslims but see it as a problem to be served by one. The training of the colonial age is still with them where the white man was always seen as master and never the servant. These Muslims are still living in medieval times when people were subjects to be subjugated by the leader. Someone should bring them back to the future by giving them lessons in citizenship and democracy. Those who don’t work are being supported by the Government and all those hard working tax payers up and down the country, Muslim or not. They are the ones that misquote lines from the Quran and warn other Muslims about taking non-Muslims as friends while they are the very people who depend on these people for their livelihoods and security and give nothing back. If a government comes to power and then takes our country into an illegal war, the blood of all those innocent victims are on the hands of those that allowed the MPs that supported the war to get their seats in Parliament. This includes those that voted for the said MPs and those that did not vote at all. So the twits that say voting is haram for fear of getting innocent blood in their hands are drenched in that very same blood. And then you have those that don’t feel that Britain is their country because their parents were not born here. Although they are born here, their children born and raised here, the first language of their children is English and they and their families will most probably die here. They consider themselves guests in a host country as do the BNP. Maybe if the wrath of the BNP descended on them it might awaken them. Also see: The Imam interview Readers have left 26 comments.
Tahira:
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As voting intelligently is an effective way to protect our rights and freedoms IT IS AN ISLAMIC OBLIGATION TO VOTE!
Shaykh Salman Al Awdah: “Being aware that a particular party will be more willing to fulfil our Islamic rights, not to vote for this party will he tantamount to transgression and breach of trust in the eyes of Shariah.” If anyone is in any doubt the Voting in Islam section on this website has all the evidence on this. Those who claim voting is haram have no evidence to support them, and they are betraying the Muslims by giving away their power to the Zionists and Islamophobes. Muslims who don't vote are directly helping the BNP. The BNP need a low turn-out to win a seat because if only a small number of people vote then their supporters can make up the 5% of the total vote they need to win a seat on the London Assembly.
(1)
2008-04-15 10:56:18
shan:
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These guys are part of the hidden agenda of getting muslims to not use their voting rights.
as the number of british muslims has reached 3 million people they will have a more larger say in politics and those punching above their weights are afraid of losing out.
(2)
2008-04-15 11:07:37
shamsur:
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Pause your overworked brains for just minute guys!!!!!!
Lets look at the facts: Muslims like me do not vote simply because, there is no political party in the country which represents the views of a Muslim. Before you start protecting your beloved labour parrty and respect, might i say they definately do not represent any Muslim views. Ive heard countless amounts of time the idea that the Jews are ahead of us and their influence is widespread because they have infiltrated every political medium. What sheer evil! I am a Muslim, i have supreme beleif in Allah SWT and his beloved Messanger SAW. I do not need political influence to pursuade the Non Muslim figures to symphasise with my cause even when i know they don't give a damn and will listen to anyone to get a vote through. It is a fact that when you vote for labour or are a so called Moderate Muslim, eager to become a Councillor of your local borough, you will stand beside those who are responsible for the War and kiling of innocent Muslims. "Allah shall judge you by every atom of your action, however small or big, on the Day of Judgement". Lets assume you are correct that voting is not haram!, fine give me a Muslim party akin to the Brotherhood in Egypt, than i may feel inclined to go out and tick a ballot paper, until than theres nothing MPAC can say that will change my mind. Fact: Labour went to WAR Fact: Conservatives supported it Fact: Liberal Democrats support the Troops Dear Muslims, our boys are not the British Troops, wake up from your mentality, our boys are the innocent stone throwing Palestinian children being killed for just that one action. And before you shout HT, i am not a member of HT or any other group, i am a Muslim of this Ummah which is bleeding everyday, and by Allah a vote for your silly parties will not help my UMmah one little bit.
(3)
2008-04-15 11:30:42
Abdi Hamid:
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Brothers,
voting is haram! Support the brothers in Hizb Ut Tahrir!!!! Brothers, don't let the disbeliever take you away from the deen.
(4)
2008-04-15 12:08:48
Liger05:
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the figures show it aint just the muslims dont vote. People are not interested in politics how it stands and dont care about this election.
(5)
2008-04-15 12:25:31
Imran Khan:
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Salaam alaiakum
Firstly, not voting in a non-Muslim country is a legitimate Islamic position with tonnes of proof from the Qur'an and Sunnah to back this position up. Secondly, this proves that the least we can say as "tolerant" Muslims is that there is a legitimate difference of opinion in the issue. Thirdly, differences of opinion are to be respected; although this is not to say that both opinions are necessarily correct since only one will be. Fourthly, it can on occasions be difficult to determine the truth of the matter in a given difference of opinion in certain subjects due to the strong proofs available from both sides of the argument. Hence, to call a Muslim a hypocrite in an area in which a legitimate difference of opinion exists is incredibly dangerous and points out to me two things: 1. The ignorance of Islamic etiquettes in how to deal with differences of opinion, which usually stems from not even knowing such a difference exists. 2. Incorrectly declaring Muslims to be wrong which can have dire consequences for the accuser. Of course, the writer of this article fails to clarify what he means by hypocrite: does he mean it in the linguistic sense or legislative sense? If it's legislative then what does he mean: nifaaq al-Akbar (greater form of hypocrisy) that expels from the religion or the lesser form? Either way, it's incredibly childish and dangerous to call another Muslim a hypocrite especially in this issue of voting. Of course, opinions can change due to changing circumstances. And an example of this is the opinion from the current Mufti of Saudi who recently issued a fatwa allowing voting in non-Muslim countries for Muslims to secure their rights under strict conditions that Muslims do not go to extremes in pursuing politics, which some Muslims like MPACUK have done; thus beguiling so many of the youth from concentrating their efforts on issues related to the religion that take greater precedence. Salaam alaiakum
(6)
2008-04-15 12:53:12
Sultan (in Oxford):
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Assalaam wa-alaikum and Greetings
This issue of ‘voting is haraam’ amongst some Muslims will always remain with us. I fault not only the Muslims who have this (extreme) view, but also the Mosques, the Parents, and friends who preach such a view. Has it not occurred to these Muslims that the rights which they enjoy so much in the West, such as the freedom to express their faith in Schools, at work, in Mosques, etc, has come about by the early generations participating in local elections so that their needs can be heard. Or, do they think a non-Muslim minister suddenly woke up one day and decided that the Muslims should be allowed Mosques and rights. The ballot box is the means by which Politicians hear Muslims. What some Muslims should understand is that by NOT VOTING, you are still participants in the elections, in the sense that by the very absence of your vote you are actually assisting in allowing undesirables to get into power. Undesirables who may cause more harm than the people who you decided not to vote for. Like an Ostrich, with it’s “head buried in the sands approach”, you can continue to feel safe that you are somehow protecting the ummah but this is just an illusion. The non-voters, by voluntarily giving up their rights to vote, cannot then complain if their local MP is not sympathetic to their issues. I see VOTING and NOT-VOTING as a choice between 2 Evils. NOT VOTING is more evil than VOTING. Finally, how many of the Muslims who declare ‘voting is haraam’ on the one hand have no objections on the other hand when they • Seek Protection within ‘kuffer’ Countries • Live off Benefits and Aid (such as Housing, Income Support) from the ‘kuffer’ • Request Community Grants from the ‘kuffer’ • Giving Birth to Children in ‘kuffer’ countries so as to acquire Western passports. ‘Voting is haraam’ but the above is (obviously) not haraam, if you are able bodied. This is double Standards, and no wonder Muslims become ridiculed and Islamophobia is spreading. Wasalaams and regards
(7)
2008-04-15 15:05:26
Abu Haadiya:
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Since you guys are so keen on voting, can you please outline what are the major differences between the three main parties on issues pertaining to foreign policy. Would any one of them have conducted themselves differentley on issues such as Afghanistan, Iraq and the ongoing genocide in Palestine? If not, then a vote for any one of the three could potentially make a Muslim voter an accomplice to the murder and terrorism that this country carries out against innocent Muslim civilians. A vote for any other alternative party such as Respect, or Craig Murray etc., is simply an endorsment of, and gives legitimacy to a political system that has a facade of choice, but in reality is far from any such thing.
This view of mine does not render me into a 'hypocrite', or a supporter of extremism. My view is that voting in a non muslim country is commendable ONLY if there is a real choice, and unfortunatley there is none. Of course, if this country moves away from a 'first past the post system' to a Proportional representation one, then i would endorse voting for an alternative party, as every vote would give such a party a say in parliament.
(8)
2008-04-15 16:18:53
Sultan (in Oxford):
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Fact: Labour went to WAR Fact: Conservatives supported it Fact: Liberal Democrats support the Troops Dear Muslims, our boys are not the British Troops, wake up from your mentality, our boys are the innocent stone throwing Palestinian children being killed for just that one action. Here's some facts for the Brothers and Sisters, who believe 'voting is Haraam'. Unless Muslims become influential and a force to be reckoned with, (a united political stance would be one way) then Muslims will always be ignored. To have a say in matters that concern us, we need the politicians to listen to us. We are living within a non-Muslim state (by choice, not by force, I would add). The Ministers will not listen if we abstain from voting. In this case, our views will always be ignored. They are more likely to listen and make laws appealing to our issues, if we participate and vote via the ballet box and tell them what we want. This is how their democracy works. In order to Help the Palestinians and other oppressed Muslims in illegal Wars, you need to convince those in Power the rights and wrongs of their actions. You cannot do that by NOT VOTING. You can only do this by promoting those who have sympathy for the Muslim cause. Even then, the single person in power may ignore all of his party members. So, voting by the ballet box you are making a progressive change, to get to an end goal which suits us as far as foreign policy is concerned. But, unfortunately, we Muslims always require immediate fixes. How can someone do a quick fix after decades of ignoring the issues, and we are still arguing over this. Blowing up innocents "in the name of Islam" is not the right way. Neither is abstaining from voting. In addition, abstaining from voting does not mean you are 'helping the ummah'. Your absence means you are indirectly allowing a person who has the more extremist view against Islam to come into power. In this case, you have 'voted' due to your silence. I find it surprising that some Muslims think that by not voting they are helping their brethen in Palestine. You are still contributing to the Wars by * Having Monies in the Bank Banks use the money earned through interest to loan to companies in Israel. Thus supporting Israel. This is independent on whether you accept interest payments or not. * Spending in Western SuperMarkets Whether you shun Israel goods, it matters not. Each profit a Western Supermarket makes, means more money to its 'friends' in Israel. * Paying Taxes So, you can't escape. You have involvement in the very issues that you resent, one way or another. Wasalaams
(9)
2008-04-15 16:20:35
Musa Evans:
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Assallamu'Alaikum,
In my 30 years I have not yet voted and let me asure you that the Islamic Movement believes in nothing more than the Qur'an & Sunnah as practiced by the Companions, in the sole Soverignty and Lordship of Allah (swt) upon his earth and seeking His pleasure alone. The intention with which the middle and representative party is pursuing this course of action is not for any love or desire to appease a party or government, niether is it because they love the chosen candidate and his policies, for ultimately they are all taghoot. It is soley because the greater evil of Boris is such that he will surely cause hardship through his policies and speech towards this great community. Will you then stand on that day of Recompense and say you did nothing to stop this Islamophobe... On a normal electoral morning you wouldn't see me anywhere near a polling booth, because it is difficult to distinguish between favourables and non-favourables, but on this occasion in the Mayor ballot everything is as clear as day. Furthermore the Hadith of the Prophet (pbuh) is concise,'Inamal amal bin niyat' that all actions are but based upon the intention with which they are committed. Allah (swt) will know my intention on May 1st, Insha'Allah. We know that the true, accredited and authentic scholars of this faith are like the heirs to the Prophets, as mentioned in a hadith of the Prophet, and their guidance affirms the adopted tactical, collective approach in this particular contest, context and time. Obviously they know better than us...don't they?? May Allah protect, guide and grant sucess to His Ummah. Musa
(10)
2008-04-15 17:58:38
Twit with Wit:
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Muslims are for sure witless. Worse than twits. Especially the HT kind. If you're against showing any support to this government, why do you pay tax? Maybe you don't you freeloaders. Get out of Britain then we won't have this debate on immigration. Its' because of you Britons have to suffer. Go back to your Islamic State. Muslims can do one of 3 things.
1.vote someone who's bad for Muslims 2.Not vote 3.Vote someone whos better for Muslims. The former two options favour the Islamophobes which in my book is HARAM. So you HTs, if you read my book - you're all Pepperamis. I guess you won't be reading my book. No probs, you won't get it if you did.
(11)
2008-04-15 18:10:25
Call me 'Madam':
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The fact is that these so-called 'Muslims' are in fact not Muslims at all. Sure they grow beards/lollop around in jilbaabs but they don't practice 'Islam'. What they do is simply prance around in 8th Century Arab dress, shouting 'sharia, sharia!'. They are just 'sheikh worshippers'.
If voting is 'haraam' because you shouldn't 'take help from or give help to' the 'kuffar', then do these fools travel on trains? Who built those? Not the Muslims. Do they drive on the road? Who built those? Not the Muslims. Who built the cars? Not the Muslims. Who invented light-bulbs? Not the Muslims. Who invented gas/electric cookers? Not Muslims. Do they watch TV? Do they fly in planes? Do they use computers? Do they eat sliced bread? Do they eat margarine? These are ALL the work of Kuffaar. It is time that the West started charging these extremist Muslims 'jizia'. These idiots should be required to pay double tax, because the State has to spend more money to protect the rest of us from them. If they don't pay, they should be expelled, deported to their beloved woman-beating, hand-chopping lands.
(12)
2008-04-15 18:34:29
z:
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Shamsur you may have a point as there are many disillusioned voters that will not vote at all as the parties and the people who call themselves policians are not worth voting for.
Sure we live in an imperfect democarcy with many flaws, but allah has placed us in a situation where we have the power of vote. WE are part of this country and we have even helped this coutnry to be what it is whether directly or indirectly. The article said that by your not voting, a party and people are still elected and your views and vote have not counted and illegal invasions still take place and muslims are still slaughtered. By not voting you could be letting in an anti-muslim policitian as so many seem to be nowadays. So what are you doing to change things. You are giving up the fight without fighting it. Sure it is a long hard fight that we may not even win by getting the people and party into power that we would like but that does not mean we should give up. Islam, itself started from our noble prophet (pbuh) when he was one. What kind of Islam do you think we would have had if his attitude would have been nothing will ever change? We are not relying upon other but rather trying to influence what others do on our behalf. You are right when you say that each and everyone of us will be held to account for our actions. Just call me madam - on what do you base your ludicrous assumptions..... I woudl think your overactive imagination.
(13)
2008-04-15 19:26:04
pt:
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Shamsur you may have a point as there are many disillusioned voters that will not vote at all as the parties and the people who call themselves policians are not worth voting for.
Sure we live in an imperfect democarcy with many flaws, but allah has placed us in a situation where we have the power of vote. WE are part of this country and we have even helped this coutnry to be what it is whether directly or indirectly. The article said that by your not voting, a party and people are still elected and your views and vote have not counted and illegal invasions still take place and muslims are still slaughtered. By not voting you could be letting in an anti-muslim policitian as so many seem to be nowadays. So what are you doing to change things. You are giving up the fight without fighting it. Sure it is a long hard fight that we may not even win by getting the people and party into power that we would like but that does not mean we should give up. Islam, itself started from our noble prophet (pbuh) when he was one. What kind of Islam do you think we would have had if his attitude would have been nothing will ever change? We are not relying upon other but rather trying to influence what others do on our behalf. You are right when you say that each and everyone of us will be held to account for our actions. Just call me madam - on what do you base your ludicrous assumptions..... I woudl think your overactive imagination.
(14)
2008-04-15 19:27:17
Mujaahid:
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While one may disagree with a brother's belief that voting is haram, and for sure he didn't arrive at that conclusion himself - many respected scholars also believe it is - to resort to using derogatory terms such as 'witless' is probably not the most respectful approach. Voting should be used expediently and not as a means in and of itself.
(15)
2008-04-15 19:53:21
Mohammed:
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The authors argument seems quite illogical. If approximatley 39% of the voting population didn't vote in the last general election, then how does that translate to them not being eligible to access services, banks, etc. We all pay our taxes, don't we? Just out of interest how have you affected government decisions by voting.
How does putting a cross on a ballot paper every five years get us favours from parliament. Since the last election the will of the people has been ignored, we have anti terror legislation targeting muslims, the list goes on and on. We are living in a capitalist country, where the interests of big business are more dearer to the politicians then the ordinary people. Your suggestion that the people who didn't vote are now somehow complicit in the death of innocent people in Iraq, is maybe stretching beyond the bounds of reality. Isn't it more plausible that the people who did vote for one of the parties ( Especially Labour ), had aligned themselves with the perpetrators of the bloodshed of innocent people in Iraq?
(16)
2008-04-15 21:33:19
Taz:
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Ooh it look like the witless hypocrites of HT are getting their nether-garments in a twist. What is amusing is how they end up tying themselves up in knots.
HT are promoting extremism by promoting separation.
(17)
2008-04-15 22:44:57
F Cockburn:
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Can Sultan abbreviate his articles or bring them out in paperback (I won't be buying).
He does go on a bit with his wasalaaaaams and regaaaaaards and long good byes etc. Worse than a bloody Romeo.
(18)
2008-04-15 23:03:28
K. Urban:
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VOTE.
If the politicians then abuse their powers ...PROTEST Whether you vote or not the politicians will affect YOUR life. So influence them. Or let influence them. And then you can be another silent Muslim victim. A baby cries when it wants milk. A Muslim baby is crying somewhere and YOU are doing nothing to influence the cause. Do so legally. But respect Britain.
(19)
2008-04-16 06:32:49
ali akbar:
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While one may disagree with a brother's belief that voting is haram, and for sure he didn't arrive at that conclusion himself - many respected scholars also believe it is - to resort to using derogatory terms such as 'witless' is probably not the most respectful approach. Voting should be used expediently and not as a means in and of itself. — Mujaahidmany scholars do not believe it. only HT scholars dont believe in voting, from Pakistan, to Morocco, Indonesia to the US muslim scholars believe in voting. you dont have scholars you have pseudo cult leaders.
(20)
2008-04-16 08:54:42
lucilavelle:
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Salaam Alaykum brothers and sisters I have just been introduced to MPAC and find this debate really interesting - I am the election agent for Ali Shelmani, Respect Candidate for Moss Side in Manchester. I am a revert to Islam and took Shahada 18 months ago. I remember in my early lessons about Islam I was told that the Prophet Mohammed SAWS told us to always consult the people when making a decision and I believe that message is compatible with campaigning and voting. There are points on both sides of this arguement that I agree with but more important than the debate about do we vote or not is the question what are we doing to stop evil in the world? I agree that the political process in the West is not perfect, far from it, and it is often corrupt and unrepresentative but surely going out and speaking to people about the issues of today, the Imperialist Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Global Warming and the destruction of the planet by huge corporations, fighting Racism and Islamophobia - to name a few issues - is something that each and everyone of us should do? and offer people an alternative to the corrupt politicians? Getting people out to vote may not be the most important part of the process, but opening their eyes to an alternative world that is based on Peace, Equality and Justice is surely the most Islamic action? If we manage in the process to get someone who truly represents us into a position that they can make a difference - then even better. I cannot believe that Allah would want us to sit back and allow Shaytan to take control, if so why did he send us his messenger to instruct us on how to live our lives? I apologise if my arguement is very simplistic, I'm not a scholar but I believe that Justice is worth campaigning for, just as Mohammed SAWS did 1400 years ago.
(21)
2008-04-16 10:08:22
Mujaahid:
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Quote: "many scholars do not believe it. only HT scholars dont believe in voting, from Pakistan, to Morocco, Indonesia to the US muslim scholars believe in voting." "you dont have scholars you have pseudo cult leaders."
That's a ridiculous comment to make and one that clearly indicates a lack of understanding on your part. HT of course do not believe in voting, but many MANY respected scholars such as Bin Baz, Uthameen, Al Albani, MUqbil and Wadi'e etc also believe voting is wrong and they do so for good reason. However, Al Albani was also of the opinion that if a greater good can be brought about through inclusion in this act, and this is specific to Muslims living in non-Muslim countries, then it may be permissible. As I said in my first post, we should use our right to vote expediently. It is a means to an end, not the means or the end in and of itself.
(22)
2008-04-16 17:41:25
dumbingDown:
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I call it, "dummbing the Ummah down." That's what those people who say "voting is haraam" are doing.
Just playing very hard to dumb the Ummah down.
(23)
2008-04-16 17:52:47
Mohammed:
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It sounds like new labour spin has affected people on this website. Instead of the participants throwing insults, maybe they should provide more constructive arguments like Lucillaville.
The capitalist system will change a person, the person will not change the system, ie a Muslim voting for the Iraq War ( Khalid Mahmood ), a Muslim wanting the 90 days for anti-terror legislation ( Shahid Malik ), as well as many other examples. The capitalists run the show, the politicians change, but the system remains the same. Ofcourse, we all need to be active citizens by getting involved in youth projects, becoming school governors, working with mosques to promote reform, etc, etc. The question is can a person be an active citizen without marking a cross in a box every 4/5 years?
(24)
2008-04-16 19:31:00
spidey:
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Interesting debate about whether to vote or not to vote, what the "anti-voting" group seem to fail to understand is that, with respect, if the Muslim (or Ethnic) block don't vote they have no electoral use to the political parties, subsequently they will take less notice of you and when needs must will sacrifice you to the alter if it appeases others who will vote for them.
I think MPAC do a good job and its a pity that biradari (wrongly observed in most cases) leaves Kashmiris / Pakistanis (where I'm from) being forced to pick the people who want power and are not very interested in true public service, I also know that this and the disaster of political correctness (white liberals talking on behalf of others) has left a part of this area not just segregated but under the yolk of oppression from hardliners and the vast majority of people in that area don't want it, how do I know this because I get told it by Kashmiri / Pakistani Muslims and believe it or not this is despite me being in the BNP (the far more moderate lot than the Griffinites) because they know they get honesty as it is not done for any electoral gain. P.S. It's Dewsbury so if MPAC want to pay a visit they can enjoy a meal and see that the division Labour would love you to believe is far from accurate up here where Muslim Tories, Muslim Lib-Dems even Muslim Labour Councillors will chat and drink and eat with the more moderate BNP types, the only ones the BNP have issues with are the "White Labour Councillors", very ironic.
(25)
2008-04-17 00:59:57
Faisal Sheikh:
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I'll be voting in the Mayor election for Ken & the Green Candidate, and for Respect in everything else. Do I agree with thier politics? No. Do I think they're muslim-friendly? No. Is voting for them wrong? Possibly.
But I firmly believe it would be more wrong to not vote, and to let someone like Boris Johnson or the BNP into power. The sister who mentioned not voting because all the parties are pro-war/troops, and all have the same policies, I know what you mean. But here's a scenario. You've got a gun, you've got one bullet, and you've got the chance to kill someone who's going to murder 50 people or someone who's going to murder 10 people. What do you do? Is it haram to kill? Yes But is it not more haram to not kill the person who's going to murder 50? Maybe then the person who's going to murder 10 might re-evaluate... A bit of hikmah folks...
(26)
2008-04-29 15:29:44
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