i agree with the author. my advice to that sister is that for people to start taking her seriously, she needs to fulfil her islamic obligations first and foremost. its good that she feels for the muslim suffering but it needs to be done in conjucntion with our other obligations

a hypocritical salifi saying

Just to further stress and clarify here that this is not to suggest - that one needs to become a "perfect Muslim" to engage in Islamic work - rather I pointed out it would be HYPOCRITICAL for a Muslim to engage in Islamic work - championing the lofty Islamic cause if he/she fails to apply the BASIC OBLGATORY fundamentals of the Deen themselves that is Ordered by Allah (SWT) (i.e Salah, Hijaab etc)

Allah (SWT) said: “O you who believe! Why do you say that which you do not do? Most hateful it is with Allâh that you say that which you do not do.” (As-Saff 61:2-3)

The Messenger of Allah (saw) said:

"A man will be brought on the Day of Judgment and thrown into the Hellfire where his intestines will spill out. So it will be said (to him): 'Weren't you the one who used to command good and forbid evil?' So he will say: 'I used to command you to do good yet not do it myself. And I used to forbid you from evil yet commit it myself.'" (Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim)

It is absurd for brothers/sisters who fail in practicing the obligations to start preaching about how to revive the Muslims or start "working" for the Deen!? (When they need help themselves on the BASICS) - How on earth will we gain victory from Allah like this?

How are those bros/sisters who find difficulty to implement the basic obligations - which is a severe “manifested” sign of weakness in their imaan - expect any of their “Islamic work and Action" to bare fruit and be granted success and victory from Allah? We should be helping them to implement these BASIC OBLIGATIONS instead of encouraging them to get sidetracked away from their basic obligations.

What is the whole purpose of “Islamic Work”? – it is to please Allah to Grant us Paradise in the next life – thus it is ibaadah (worship) and in ibaadah - the basic OBLIGATIONS come first and foremost and the rest are built upon that.

Also with regards to the title you have chosen for my post: “Without Hijaab you cannot activate anyone” - of course non-Hijabis or non-practising Muslims can be “active” in the avenue of “Islamic work” – but that’s not the point - as we need to recognise the following:

1. Victory in any "action" that we undertake is ultimately in the Hands of Allah (SWT) regardless of whatever or how much one exerts effort and resources or does.
2. The Personal Faith related element thus - is essential for Allah to Grant Victory in whatever we undertake

Thus, one may be extremely “active” but if the individual did not implement ones obligations that is necessitated as a Muslim – you may lose the Barakah in these “activities” to begin with – and hence face defeat – further set backs & further humiliation.

This is why we find in our history – Muslim Generals requesting their soldiers BEFORE commencing a battle - to ask Allah to Forgive their Sins – for they recognised that defeat can be inflicted upon them simply due to it - regardless of how much manpower, resources or weaponry they had.

The comment above is indicative of how some Muslims in the UK engender mistrust amongst the population who are not Muslim. Leave women alone to make up their own minds ...... trying to control and own women goes against British norms

Reality, you make an interesting point.

I wonder though, if it's hypocritical for the sister in question to advocate defending Muslims even though she is not wearing hijab, is it hypocritical for someone to advocate wearing hijab even though they don't fulfil the fard obligation of defending Muslims?

i'm really offended by this comment just shows how some Muslims only judge others on appearance. its just one step away from saying we will only help those Muslims that do wear hijab/beards or fulfil obligations that we (the good practicing Muslims) stipulate, the rest of you can continue to suffer...

ok the above comment is really really apalling....muslims are being demonised in the media, the tabloids scream about the 'Islamification' of Britain, worldwide Muslims are suffering, parents in Iraq are having to sell their children because of war/poverty, there are so many problems every where yet this wonderful 'brother' is more concerned about a womans hair..that is how narrow minded and blinkered he is he simply wants to judge women on their appearance....yes that will better the lot of the ummah inshallah! i'm digusted with this focus on hijab/jilbab/noqab by so many people its turning into some sort of fetish and guess whst it doesnt encourage any woman to observe hijab it just scares them off!

the assertion is preposterous and it actually prevents women who may not have observed hijab yet from being active and joining orgs like mpacuk etc. I have many friends that aren't observing hijab yet and they do not join Islamic orgs or go to Islamic meetings because they have in the past been harrassed and abused for not wearing hijab/or they think they will be belittled and insulted the way 'reality' is belittling mpacuk and the mpac sister, never mind their good work and intentions he implies they are hypocrites...subhanallah! Does he really care about the Ummah or is he only showcasing what a good jugdemental brother he is by pointing out the shotcomings of others...i hope it makes him feel good about himself because it makes me feel as disgusted as previous poster.

so a woman with no hijaab is considered unworthy of any humanist action, because she does not refer to the most obvoius islamic rule regarding her hair?

so in essence there is no voice unless there is a obvious adherence to islamic dresscode for the sole benefit of fellow muslims around her, so the muppets will listhen because shes a holy holy mary.

You don’t have to be religious to be a decent human who stands against murder and oppression.

Whoever made that comment i hope you wear a white man dress like your passive girly saudi men do right now! All they do is arrange their headress!

Whoever made that comment is a classic example of a scholar whorshipper, mesmerised by the isalmic dress and constant Islamic rethoric.

I bet you also condone the killing of non muslims around the world, because if you think a person without a scarf need not be heard because of their lack of religious attitude.
Well you’re the anal muslim, see how unislamic that is, read the seerah.

To respond the the brothers assertion that you cannot do one fard without observing another is silly, after all a greater frd is Jihad, it is greater as a reposibility then wearing a hijab, (and that depends on the types of hijab), or having a beard etc.


however I have noticed that some of the women I know who wear hijabs also have the biggest beards!!!!!


yikes...

I must admit I am confused? How does a BASIC stop one from doing another BASIC.

Most Muslim women who wear the headscard nearly all abandon the FARD (BASIC) of Jihad, most will never allow their husbands to take part prefering to sit in pointless and cosy Islamic circles and yet not a single Muslim stands up and accounts them!

Now a sister does the GREATER BASIC (Jihad) and someone says this without Hijab this is pointless?

I have read many of 'Realities' previous posts and he seems an intelligent person - so I am surprised at his stand on this. Please can you clarify?

Yes a woman should guard her modesty, but guarding your modesty as most do and yet doing nothing in Jihad is worse then not wearing a headscart and taking part.

One night in Jihad is equal to a thousand nights in Prayer according the Prophet PBUH.

the main reason for the poor situations of the Muslims (in the middle east etc.) is the breakdown of and lack of importance given to learning over the last century in comparison to former centuries. Not how women CHOOSE to dress. That point of view is proof of the above problem.

I think the point being made is a simple one, clouded by emotional outbursts.

I don't think the pro-hijabi comment that sparked this debate off is saying that non-hijabi sisters shouldn't be active. I would argue the opposite, and the point about doing the basics stands, that ignoring one basic does not mean we are not active, otherwise all those brothers that don't pray shouldn't defend their community either, which is plain stupid and unIslamic.

I think what the comment is saying is YES non-Hijabis SHOULD be active, but having a non-Hijabi as a leader or representative of an Islamic group is another story, and a different point.

I think that Reality needs to refer to the following checklist: Shahadah, Salat,Zakaat, Sawm and Hajj. Sounds familiar? I think so.

So lets not confuse Arabism with Islam.

And before we start trading Hadith with each other, remember that these were compiled 200-250 years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh). There is absolutely no guarantee that these are all accurate (Allah (swt) has not given a gurantee for the Hadith, but only a guarantee of protection for the Quraan).

If you can sincerely tick-off each of the above five, then no one who calls him/herself a muslim can rightfully accuse you of unbelief.

So instead of dancing around a hijaab, and following men around with a tape measure to see if their beard in long enough, why not follow the five real basics?

Those who are of strong/genuine faith are tolerant of others: why else is there a Day of Judgement? Who is the judge? Not us mortals, that's for sure!

Well in that case all leaders in Britain should be deposed, since nearly all ISOC's and Mosque Leaders abandon Jihad?

So they have far less of a right to be 'in an islamic group or leading us' then a woman who does her GREATER duty, but fails in the lesser one - correct?

With the greatest respect - 'Reality' needs a reality check in the 21rst century . The nonsense about wearing hijabs, calculating the lenght of trousers or beards is what detracts from the truth of Islam. The requirement is to dress modestly not ape a Byzantine headress or a Gulf cultural practice. In other words stop wasting time on trivial externals and live an exemplary life of decency and kindness, recognise the wood from the trees and the true message of Islam will be apparent to all. Self serving and self righteous hypocrisy based on external practices is abhorent.

europamedical

Very well put. I agree with everything you've said.

I would just add that along with leading an exemplary life of decency and kindness, one should also be a seeker after knowledge: scientific/medical/philosophical/historical etc. (and not just religious knowledge-- although that's obviously desirable too).

I think some people have got the wrong angle on this. Everyone should be active in the defence of Islam/Muslims/Human rights etc. However we must remember that the conditions prevailing upon the world are from the 'amr' (will) of Allah. Favourable conditions come upon the Ummah when they are obedient towards their creator. Conversley the 'nusrah' (help) of Allah is witheld when we move away from the Quran and Sunnah. How is Allahs help going to come when the vast majority of the Muslims cannot even fulfill the Salah which is the First thing that will be accounted for on the day of judgment. Of course this does not mean that we all have to become perfect Muslims before we embark on any efforts to defend the Muslims. Rather we should do both ie increase our attempts to mould our lives according to the correct teachings and at the same time defend Muslims. This toghether with dua to Allah and sincerity in our actions will inshallah bring the help of Allah we crave. The sister who is active in her 'jihad' should ask herself how she can help the Ummah, when in order to do so she is breaking one of the basic commands of Allah. She should not have to choose between activism and hijab- she must do both. Many people think the Ummah will resolve all their problems by simply emulating the methods employed by the Kuffar. eg lobbying etc; whilst they forget Allah's role in the equation. Lastly NEVER EVER denigrate the sunnah of the Prophet pbuh like many of the above comments are doing.

Like i stressed in my previous post:

I completely agree that it would be HYPOCRITICAL of a Muslim to not engage in the BASIC OBLIGATORY fundamentals of the deen but isn’t the sort of work mpacuk is doing one of the BASIC OBLIGATORY fundamentals of the deen that Muslims nowadays have conveniently forgotten just how fundamental.

Hadith: One is not a Muslim until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.

When our brothers and sisters in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan and other Muslim countries are being oppressed and enduring the worst forms of human rights abuse, when our sisters in this country get verbally abused for being a Muslim, when our brother in this country gets thrown into Guantanomo Bay for a crime he didn’t commit, it becomes a BASIC OBLIGATION on us to help them, to protect them. Yet what are we doing? While our brothers and sisters are being subjugated we are more focused on the basic obligations of wearing a hijab.

"Hypocrisy – 'a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.'"

What would u call a sister who wore a headscarf but didnt lift a finger to defend the interests of Islam or her fellow muslim brothers and sisters. what would u call a sister who wears a headscarf and knows another sister who had her headscarf ripped off her head in a racist attack yet did nothing to defend that sister.

Ill tell you what u would call her. You would call her a hypocrite because her scarf would just be a pretense of her moral and religious beliefs, a pretense of her virtue. Her scarf would just be a ritual she thinks makes her religious.

who will weigh more heavy on the scale? the sister who wears the scarf yet doesnt lift a finger in defence of her brothers and sisters or the sister who didnt wear the scarf yet lifted a finger in defence of her brothers and sisters? Like i stressed in my previous post that is not for me and u to judge.

one of the main causes for the Current situation of the Muslims is not so much as the failure of Muslims to adhere to the basic obligations of the Deen but more the fact that muslims have made the bsic obligations of the deen into no more then meaningless rituals and have become so fixated on them that they neglect other basic obligations.

You would never say to a sister, "you don't wear hijab therefore it is hypocritical of you to offer your fard salah".

Defensive jihad is FARD (whether fighting back when under physical attack, or the Jihad of the Pen). Jihad is no less obligatory than salah.

Hijab is a fard on Muslim women and I wear it - and I am appalled that Muslims value this obligation above the obligation to defend the lives of our brothers and sisters.

The real hypocrisy is that of brothers who tell us to wear hijab, but do nothing to stop the Islamophobia that leads to hijabi sisters being attacked in the street.

The problem for me that seems to be surfacing from the comments is the complete belittlement of ritualistic side of Islam and its obligations and disregarding it as totally irrelevant to the awakening of the Muslims - harvesting such notions I believe is dangerous to revival of the Muslims itself - I am of those who are absolutely all for being active in defending our rights and interests but not at the expense of completely disregarding the importance of any of the Commands of Allah: None of The Commands of Allah or the Prohets(saw) are mere insignificant superficial elements - it is this type of thinking that has brought humiliation upon the Ummah of Muhammad (saw) today.

The same way I would speak out against the blameworthy Brothers and Sisters who ONLY concentrate on the ritualistic side and nothing else - it seems to me MPACUK are going down the same slippery slope of disregardment and belittlement of an aspect of Islam - lets get the facts straight - Islam is not a “ political party” with its objective limited to only “social justice” whereby "activists" in this field are the only ones who are considered engaging in Gods work regardless if their “activists” implement the obligatory basics of the faith or not.

It is Paramount we take a holistic approach in the Deen - prioritizing our obligations in accordance to what is most important whereby a community produces serious and committed brothers/sisters in Deen who consequently manifest their emaan in "Action" in striving to work for Islam - imitating the attitude of the first generation of Muslims. It is this attitude coupled together with action that will bring forth results and victory. Like I stated before Lobbying activities, media campaigns and raising awareness in defense of our interests is praiseworthy and an obligation that needs to be fulfilled - but do not disregard our other obligatory responsibilities as a community - I can safely say (well at least where I reside) that majority of the Muslims are not even practicing - this is a severe disaster - what are people doing to solve this crisis?

I am not belittling the action and obligation to help our oppressed brothers and sisters or suggesting it as insignificant or otherwise whatsoever - rather quite the contrary - the issue here is that I sincerely believe that if one who fails to practice the Deen in the basic fundamentals who then starts to spearhead Islamic activities or gets into the "frontline" it may bring more harm than good to the Islamic cause itself in the end - serious and committed practicing people is whom we need to be in the "frontlines" to achieve results. Thus this is about "attaining fruitful results" from our actions to help Muslim causes and interests.

With regards to "obligations" itself - we as Muslim individuals must always judge our indented actions of ibaadah/Islamic work or fulfilling duties and responsibilities by asking ourselves and possessing the attitude of - "what would Allah want us to do first" and priorities accordingly - for example the brothers who are not practicing (do not perform salah etc) - Allah would want from them - fist and foremost - before anything else - to establish their Salah first, and the imams/da'ees in the masjids who have the pulpit must use it to what most benefits the Ummah - as this is what Allah wants - so it would not be befitting for them to do lectures for 20 years on zikr and not address the issue of the oppression of the Muslims and how the Muslims can help at all, likewise in occupied Muslim lands such as Kashmir, in this situation and circumstance - Allah would want - first and foremost - the believing men and women to FIGHT the polytheist occupiers (in accordance to their ability).

Everyone has their own weaknesses, situations and circumstances etc and everyone is different, hence there may be many obligations that arises but the key is to prioritize to what’s most important in accordance to necessity, capability, and circumstance.

Thus to be blunt - sincerely ask yourselves dear brother/sisters –a sister who does not wear Hijaab - would Allah want her to distribute leaflets, go to demonstrations, attend meetings etc exposing her awrah or would Allah (SWT) Want her to first and foremost wear the Shari obligated Hijaab before she walks out of her home? And have we really come to a situation where there are no committed practicing Muslims who would engage in defense of Muslim rights and fulfill this duty in this field that we are so desperate in need of non-practicing Muslims to fill the void? - If this is the case then what a sad state of affairs indeed.

And I ask here to the commentators - as we find it disgraceful to see hypocritical Muslims who may have "big beards" etc (amongst the community leaders and others) who don’t move a finger to fight oppression or revive the Deen and we try to hold them to account for it - why shy away or have double standards in holding to account brothers and sisters who are not practicing the Deen in the basics but wish to "work for the Deen"?

the main reason for the poor situations of the Muslims (in the middle east etc.) is the breakdown of and lack of importance given to learning over the last century in comparison to former centuries. Not how women CHOOSE to dress. That point of view is proof of the above problem.

I completely understand your point, however your initial comments did not elaborate on the fact that you believe one should be fulfilling all basic obligations i.e. that of wearing hijab, praying AND being activists for the cause of Allah. Nobody is belittling the ritualistic side of Islam. We are belittling the fact that Islam rituals have become nothing more than meaningless rituals.

In the video there are brothers and a sister who fit the image of what ‘practising’ muslims look like, yet you never judged the organisation on the basis of them. You never praised them for being in the frontline. You decided to belittle the whole organisation on the basis of one sister. You decided that she was the one in the frontline.

I agree we shouldn’t disregard any of our obligations, however neither should we discourage people from picking up what they can. In fact we should encourage them to pick up more.

“I can safely say (well at least where I reside) that majority of the Muslims are not even practicing - this is a severe disaster - what are people doing to solve this crisis?”

There is much going on in terms of Islamic talks, events, Quran classes, dawah etc, yet there is hardly anything, teaching muslims to defend themselves and other Muslims. Most Islamic events and khutbas at mosques are concerned with issues such as which is the best way to pray salah or which is the best way to wear hijab. While I agree these are important aspects of Islam we need to get our priorities right. In times such as these we cannot afford to waste time on debates such as these or who is or isn’t the best person to defend basic human rights.

defending our brothers and sisters is an obligation for all whether they are practising or not. If a non practising muslim wanted to help in the way of defending the rights of our brothers and sisters then i certainly would not discourage him/her from doing so. I would not say to her 'sister you cannot defend the rights of our brothers and sisters because you arent wearing a hijab' and i would not say to him 'brother u cannot defend the rights of our brothers and sisters because u dont have a beard.' If i did that do u think it would make them come towards Islam?

Excellent point made.

You say yourself that everyone has their weaknesses yet you belittle this sister for her weakness. ‘the key is to prioritize to what’s most important in accordance to necessity, capability, and circumstance’. Nowadays with all the islamophobia it is a priority for Muslims to defend ourselves, however when someone takes positive steps to do so muslims start debating as to how ‘islamic’ that someone is. And this is what is dangerous to the situation of muslims. That we never see what positive steps anyone is taking. For example take the commotion your comments are causing, look at how many people are debating over your comments. If this was an article asking Muslims to defend their bros and sisters it wouldn’t be worth posting any comment except to perhaps target the people calling for that.

U have to admit that organisations like mpacuk are doing more then distributing leaflets, and attending demos and meetings, however the question u pose is one that only Allah is able to answer. There is a hadith of the practicing woman yet she was cruel to a cat and that incident cancelled out all her good deeds and there was another woman who was considered the worst possible woman in Islam yet because she was kind to a cat that incident was so big in the eyes of Allah that He forgave all her past sins. So, we can’t answer such questions as to who Allah would prefer.

"And have we really come to a situation where there are no committed practicing Muslims who would engage in defense of Muslim rights and fulfill this duty in this field that we are so desperate in need of non-practicing Muslims to fill the void? - If this is the case then what a sad state of affairs indeed."

Yes we have unfortunately come to that situation. In fact forget even non practising Muslims. The majority of people engaging in the defence of Muslim rights or otherwise are mainly NON MUSLIMS. And yes it is a sad state of affairs indeed.

Reality check....


seem's that only blokes have an issue with sisters wearing Hijab.

maybe you want to focus on yourself rather then what girls are wearing?

Too true! All those commenters who consider themselves practicing Muslims should focus less on whether someone else is wearing hijab, and more on what they are doing to defend Islam - remember that sister's right to wear hijab is under attack. What have most 'practicing Muslims' done to defend those sisters prevented from wearing hijab in France, Turkey... or even in Britain in certain jobs or dangerous racist areas?

It seems to me people simply do not wish to read the content of my Original Post carefully or understand what it actually entailed - commentators have either come with pre-conceived notions of what I am exactly stating or are motivated by the “blameworthy defensive attitude - regardless of whatever the issues raised” - a disease that is rampant amongst various other groups where sometimes the truth is rejected due to group partisanship.

what I see here is either comments left by individuals who have either some sort of sick hatred against or an attitude of "belittlement" of the shari obligated Islamic obligations such as Hijaab,.............or comments left by those who are pursuing to create a straw man argument going on about "defending Islam" when this is not being disputed here in the first place and insignificant irrelevant comments left by hostile kuffar who just hate anything "Islamic".

1. The cost of hypocrisy:

We see constantly MPACUK with an aggressive harsh approach trying to tackle the issue of the Muslims who are practicing the basics amongst groups, Masjids, leaders, elders etc but who fail in the obligation to defend our interests - to hold them to account and disparage them due to this failure - now refer back to the original post with this context - when videos such as this surface - it is the very same people whom you would call hypocritical individuals who do not fear Allah etc due to their pacifism who would throw this vid back at you and laugh at you - calling you a bunch of hypocrites who have no fear of Allah - discrediting the very work of making Muslims – active - itself.

This is the main issue and the cost of hypocrisy - we wouldn't respect nor take the advice of say an Imam of the masjid who provided excellent lectures but then visits the pub after every Isha Salah now would we? Thus the whole point is if your going to get in the frontline attending meetings and giving lectures talking about how to revive the Muslims or talk about the problems of the Muslim mindset etc - expect the Muslims to hold you to account when you manifest clear cut disobedience to Allah and failure to fulfill basic obligations - for surfacing hypocrisy is not defending Islam nor helps the cause of Islam and the Muslims.

Can you not see this at least as - shall we say “a strategic blunder” that harms the actual objectives.

thus the issue raised here is pretty simple and straightforward - basically common sense - something that which I really thought would be quite simply agreed upon by all not something to fall to dispute in and I seriously didn’t really expected this much commotion about it - which to me clearly manifested some deeper more disturbing issues of your (mpacuk) supporters, sympathizers and members on this issue.

And as I stated before:

As we find it disgraceful to see hypocritical Muslims who may have "big beards" etc (amongst the community leaders and others) who don’t move a finger to fight oppression or revive the Deen and we try to hold them to account for it - why shy away or have double standards in holding to account brothers and sisters who are not practicing the Deen in the basics but wish to "work for the Deen"?

2. The issue of achieving victory from our actions:

If non practicing Muslims do engage in these activities it then also needs to be stressed to achieve results we also need to work on all fronts to the best of our ability on the personal level thus have a serious attitude personally with regards to Islam itself - the post of brother Abu Haadiya has quite proficiently articulated this point - pleaser refer to his post -#18

And under no circumstance should we foster this absurd attitude as some have manifested of - "hijaab is less important because they are doing the greater Jihaad" - appeasing non practicing Muslims for them to leave the basic obligations thinking it is - “ok” - since they are “undertaking the greater Jihaad” and thus they are some sort of "Mujahideen" - "leafleting, attending “Mujahideen” shoorah meetings and delivering “fantastic” lectures (which only to surface hypocrisy)”

[clap-clap-clap]

- And quoting them Ayats and Ahadith to motivate them in this flawed understanding -that are specific in relation the virtues and rewards of the ibaadah of kitaal (Fighting in Jihaad) in relation to a combat situations and scenario such as in Chechnya etc.

Is this exactly the message to the non-practicing brothers/sisters you wish to give out – “leafleting, meetings and demonstrations” takes precedence above the perceived “minor” - Hijaab

In fact this issue is broader than just "wearing the hijaab" rather it is about taking the Deen as a whole and not concentrating on one aspect - it is Jihaad (in the linguistic sense) or struggle to better oneself and fulfill basic obligations, it is Jihaad to preserve the Shariah and the Sunah from innovation and deviation, it is Jihaad to combat quasi Islamic sects/groups and all forms of deviation which dilute the orthodox Islamic creed, it is Jihaad to strive to defend our rights and interests and defend Muslims when attacked in the Media etc – all of this is part and parcel of defending Islam and furthering the cause of Islam.

The main thing is to priorities our responsibilities in terms of necessity but this does not negate any obligation that are there - thus it is not befitting that we push Muslims to concentrate only on the social and political issues - although vital - in total negligence to the theological and spiritual side of the revival likewise it would be blameworthy for those who concentrate on the latter to completely neglect the social and political issues.

Muslim women raped int he 1990s in bosnia, Muslim women raped in Gujarat 2002, Muslim women surrently victims of sexual violence in darfur, Iraq, traficking, domestic violence, female circumcision, honour crimes, dowry deaths, poverty, lack of education, discrimination so many problems women face not enough being doen about any of these, the children of the Umman suffer when their mothers are treated like this but brothers like 'far from reality' will never help the unfortunate they are too busy looking at the uncovered heads of sisters, no wonder we are in this mess...

Reality,

I can see your frustration but can't understand it.

YOur frustration seems that you are saying one (hijab) and Jihad are not mutally exclusive but should be done together.

Where you loose me and it seems other people on this site is that, you seem to think that doing the Jihad without the Hijab is valueless. (sorry but my interpetation). It seems a lot of people including a lot of sisters find offence at you telling women that to do one good deed they have to do another.

First of all, who are you to tell a women what to wear?

secondly, If MPAC allow non Hijab wearing women into their organisation, I struggle to understand what your issue is. It seems they are saying their is something all of us can and should be doing, and you are saying only those who wear Hijab can do it?

Sorry but your frustrations are only leading to more confusion in your points.

The question I would like you to answer is...

Can a non Hijab wearing sister, participate in Jihad to help the oppressed.

and

Can a Muslim organisation allow non beared or Hijab wearing sisters into their organisation or should that be a pre-condition.

Please do not answer with a question or a yes but style answer.

By the way no one is talking about Salaat, Haj, fasting, Zakaat, or Shahaada.


thanks in advance

@reality

I have taken all your comments into consideration and agree with most of them, however there are some points and comments that readers have been making that you don’t seem to be realising:

1) if it's hypocritical for the sister in question to advocate defending Muslims even though she is not wearing hijab, is it hypocritical for someone to advocate wearing hijab even though they don't fulfil the fard obligation of defending Muslims?

2) would you discourage women who don’t wear hijab from joining an organisation to help carry out the work in defending our brothers and sisters? Would u tell them to go away and wear a hijab and would that make them do as you ask or would that make them avoid islam further?

3) Would u discourage a muslim woman from doing one obligation just because they don’t do another? For example, would u discourage a woman who doesn’t wear a hijab from praying? Would you discourage a muslim woman from doing one fard just because she is not doing another?

4) would u belittle a whole organisation and call them hypocritical on the basis of one sister in a videocast whom u don’t even know whether she is a member or just someone who once came to one of their open days? Whom you have taken as a representative on the basis of a videocast. In fact why did you take her to be a representative and not the sister in the hijab?

5) If yes to point number 4 then why not post a public comment on the site of MCB belittling them for allowing brothers who don’t have a beard into their organisation and having a famous spokesperson in the media who represents them at every point and doesn’t have a beard.

6) does only wearing a hijab prove someone to be a decent human who stands against murder and oppression?

7) can you honestly say for sure which act Allah will be more pleased with…the act of hijab yet not lifting a finger for muslim brothers and sisters or the act of not wearing a hijab but helping muslim brothers and sisters?

8) if we agree a muslim should be both practicing and involved in defending other muslims, then we should be engaged in both and helping organisations like mpacuk who NEED such individuals. If you feel mpacuk needs religious people in their midst then instead of you pointing out the gaps to what it needs, why don’t u fill the gaps and help them out? If we are going to point out what is missing then we should also fill what is missing. It is easy to do the former but not the latter. A person with your religiosity and knowledge would be exactly what an organisation like mpacuk needs to be on the frontlines to help them defend our brothers and sisters. So instead of saying, brother what’s this you are doing, that’s not right and turning your face away, you can say, ‘here brother this is what you need to make things better, i'll help you out. Ill give you this.’ If only more muslims were like that, we would not be in the situation we are in today.

@Galaxy:

With regards to your points 1 – 3 & 7:

First and foremost - Hijaab is a specific obligation for the Women without exception as is Salah is for all Believers without exception – while defending Islam comes in various forms, methods and in various fronts and categories - some of which will be specifically obligatory on some while not on others, while other categories will be specifically obligatory on all.

Refuting with the pen in the ideological arena false anti-Islamic ideas and quasi –Islamic sects or refuting Christian missionaries and the various literature they bring to attack Islam is apart of defending Islam - however this is an obligation on those who have the ability and knowledge to do so- for the layman Muslim failing to engage in this arena is he hypocritical – no.

Palestine has been under occupation by the spiteful Zionist Jews for over 80 years – it is an individual obligation of over 1.3 billion Muslims to liberate Al Aqsa Masjid and the Muslims in Palestine from the cancer that is bleeding the Ummah – the failure in this for over 80 years does it necessitate that all Muslim from the 1940’s until today are hypocritical – not necessarily if it is due to inability.

It will be hypocritical for one who preaches the Islamic cause but not fulfill the responsibilities and duties that are within his scope and ability and this can be in any of the categories in the defense of Islam and Muslims not just in the social/political arena.

“O you who believe! Why do you say that which you do not do? Most hateful it is with Allâh that you say that which you do not do.” (As-Saff 61:2-3)

Likewise it is hypocritical as mentioned - for those who preach about the causes of the weakness of the Muslims ie – pacification - when they manifest a part of the problem of the weakness of the Ummah.

With regards to non-practicing Muslims who wish to “work for Islam” – refer to the first paragraph from my post #32, - however I certainly wouldn’t be making youtube vids of them lecturing Muslims and then stick it on the net

The attitude we should have is to fulfill all Fards and priorities to what’s most important and in my honest opinion I believe sisters to wear Hijaab is more important for a sister than distributing a few leaflets and shouting in demonstrations likewise Salah is more important than Hijaab – in fact many classical ulema such as the Hanbali scholars would regard those who do not pray – as apostates. A person who does not establish Salah is worse than a person who performs Salah but does not wear Hijaab. The only time I can think of a Fard that will supersede these obligations is in Jihaad of fighting (in conflict zones such as Kashmir etc) – the Shairah will not mandate that a sister starts praying Asr or starts wearing hijaab when kuffar invaders enter her house to dishonor her – rather to pick up the AK47 and send them to hell.

@Galaxy

With regards to 4 – 5:

If you read my Original Post - I stated:

“I do sincerely hope that this is not reflected across the spectrum within your organization – were there are brothers/sisters who are not even fulfilling the Basic Obligations of the Deen (Hijaab, Salah etc) and then start preaching to the general Muslim Masses for this will indeed backfire and cause your sincere efforts to go to waste - please do sort this out.”

I only provided advice – but for it to be seen as an “attack” by those who “harbored” hatred against the shari obligation or possessed a diseased standpoint of belittling the Islamic rituals and obligations judging from some of the comments – which widened and developed the issue.

With regards regard to point 6:

In Islam we take what is apparent for we do not know what is within the hearts – a sister who wears hijaab is considered a better Muslim than a sister who does not-from what is apparent

With regards to point 8:

Like I stated “defense of Islam” comes in many forms and fronts – and is the individuals Muslim to decide in accordance to his/her scope, ability and duty to decide how they can best serve the Deen and Please Allah (SWT). Everyone is different with different skills, talents and capabilities that can serve the Deen – there are many areas were Muslims are in need to defend Islam - it is not MPACUK who are only ones trying to defend Islam and Muslims – there are many brothers/sister who are committed in different areas – and to simply make a comment raising an issue on such a simple matter – where instead of people saying : "Ok brother we recognize the point your making, we are not belittling or disregarding ANY of the obligations rather we do stress its importance - but can I just say………” and then constructively reply with any points to be stated and move on - rather - you see “group partisanship, defending that which cant be defended, and comments from individuals which manifest some severe issues that they may have in respect to their understanding of Islam.

@hafeeza:

I am not telling the women to wear hijaab or invented it - rather:

“O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft¬Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Al-Ahzab 33:59)

“…………………… and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful. (An-Nur 24:31)

Nope……….these are not my words rather the translated Words of your Creator – you know - the Lords who is allowing us to breath at the moment – and let us do remind ourselves:

“It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allâh and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.” (Al-Ahzab 33:36)

As for you question – can a non-hijaabi participate in “jihad” to help the oppressed ……..erm when you say “jihad” – you mean “leafleting, attending meeting etc” – then wearing the hijaab is more important to these sisters – if they participate it will bring more harm by discrediting the objectives – and the reasons how and why - I have stated it in my various posts, - and even jihad in the shari context – which is fighting to defend Muslims and Raise the Word of Allah Supreme by fighting –women - non-hijaabi or hijaabi are not required to partake unless only in defensive circumstances to themselves.

With regards to the beard – we need to look at this in context and in the reality of affairs – I am of those who see the beard as obligatory upon the men – however I recognize that the brothers who do not grow their beard who maybe in the dawah arena – in the frontline or otherwise – do not see it as obligatory – and thus do not perceive as committing sin – even though I may see this as due to mis-interpretation – but the fact is they will provide – “shaykh so and so said this and shaykh so and so said that” – and due to this context for them not seeing it as a sin and also recognizing many Muslims within the community even some brothers who do grow beards but also see it as non-obligatory – it is not a question of being hypocritical here etc but interpretation – an interpretation I believe that should be corrected however tackling it with wisdom in this context. – While Hijaab is consensus – anyone who believe it is not obligatory or a difference of opinion apostates from the Religion –

So if you ask a non-bearded brother in dawah etc – why not grow the beard – he will respond – I follow the opinion it is not obligatory –this does not mean he is hypocritical rather for me due to mis-interpretation, While if you ask a non hijaabi sister who is in the “frontline” – why not wear the hijaab – looking at the comments here – instead of responding – I recognize it’s a sin etc – and leave it on this line – the “MPACUK non-practicing Muslim Mujahida” may respond simply by saying – “bruv - I am doing the greatest Jihaad” - which will cause the questioner to -lol.

I am sorry but the form of your original comment, if you would care to read it again, does sound like an attack, which is why it has resulted in all these comments. . It was your attack on a sister and your belief that she should not be allowed to defend Muslims which widened and developed the issue not some ‘hatred’ or ‘diseased standpoint of belittling Islamic issues.’

I think you have exaggerated the matter a great deal by making accusations such as ‘hypocritical’ on the basis of a videocast. Again you accuse all the readers here for having a ‘hatred’ against the shari obligation and ‘possess a diseased standpoint of belittling Islamic rituals’. I do not know about other readers but I for one adhere to Islamic shari in all respects Alhamdulillah, therefore I cannot be accused of possessing a hatred for them or indeed of ridiculing any aspects of Islam. If you had read my posts more carefully you would know that I mention ridiculing those rituals which have become no more than meaningless actions. Again your accusations are most unjust and offensive.

Defending Islam is obligatory in this day and age. Defending Islam is said to be the peak of Islam. I am not sure what u mean by muslims ‘inability’ to do so. Are all muslims disabled? Do they have no vision? No hearing? With regards to your point abt the pen one can hardly make lack of knowledge an excuse and even if he can then he should engage in other forms like you said. If one cannot walk, they can write. If one cannot write they can speak. And the majority of muslims can do plenty but they don’t even do one form.

I didn’t see the video as a bunch of non practicing muslims lecturing nor did the video or the sister in it, in my opinion, come across as some type of ‘frontline’, it just came across as a discussion, therefore I believe you have greatly exaggerated the issue.

"Ok brother we recognize the point your making, we are not belittling or disregarding ANY of the obligations rather we do stress its importance - but can I just say………”
I have already said this to you under the original videocast comments so I think it is really yourself who needs to do this. I believe I made it clear that I absolutely agree that having people who were both practicing and engaged in defending muslims would be dynamite, however I do not believe in discouraging any muslim from engaging in defending muslim just because they do not have a hijab or do not have a beard. In that case there are many organisations beside mpacuk who need holding to account. And the fact is when ‘religious’ people don’t step up to defending muslims then they can hardly complain when non religious muslims do.

Yes I agree there are other organisations engaged in defending islam but that wasn’t the point I was making. I was saying that if one feels that there is something missing somewhere then one should fill the gaps. Like I said, if practising muslims believe that non practicing muslims shouldn’t be defending muslims then why don’t the practicing muslims start doing it.

I am a reader of this site who doesn’t agree with some of the comments u have made so when I dispute some of what u say, please do not accuse me of engaging in group partisanship. You have made many accusations through your posts which are unfounded and exaggerated. Just because people don’t agree with your comments about discouraging a sister from defending muslims, doesn’t mean they have some ‘severe issues’ in understanding Islam.

With regards to your last paragraph, I think mpacuk’s work involves more then shouting in demonstrations and handing out leaflets. I do not think you should be downplaying any good work that brothers and sisters engage in. Just like you shouldn’t discourage and downplay this sister for any good work she is involved in. Yes the sister should wear a hijab but she shouldn’t be discouraged from doing any good work just because she won’t wear a hijab.

People..give Reality a break.
If a woman chooses to do hijab or not is entirely upto her and does not bother me as she will be held accountable for not adhering to Allah's instructions as contained in Surahs Nur and Al Ahzab (and not as some ppl seem to insinuate that its been invented by Reality). However, as a practising, hijab-wearing FEMALE Muslim, I am incensed when non-hijabi's used to advise me on how to practice Islam..(there was a particular girl at uni who used to make it her business to criticise others who in my opinion were better practising Muslims than her whereas she was completely heedless and exposed her legs, hair, chest and seemed oblivious to the fact that she was the last person who should be preaching Islam). Hijab was ORDAINED originally in the Qurán to the ignorant person who thinks its Hadith and I highly advise you get a copy of it with English translation to read it up for yourself. It is stated CLEARLY. Therefore anyone who argues otherwise is sorely mistaken. There are likewise many other things we are commanded to do that we perhaps neglect or are unaware of or weak in doing. However I agree with Reality in that to not wear hijab and be on the forefront of campaigning Islamic issues would bring the subject under criticism and discredit her good intentions. The first question people are likely to ask is who is she to tell us what to do when she is blatantly not practising one of the basic commands herself. I am equally opposed to practising women and men who judge others and constantly criticise smallest of details etc.
What is wrong with doing all the 5 basics of Islam and wearing hijab and engaging in political jihad and defending Muslims in need??????????
The simple truth is nothing is wrong with it. In fact it is highly commendable though in practice for those that are too modernised or feel ashamed of their identities or don't have enough Taqwa to be adherent to Islam in 2008, probably don't and hence all these issues of priorities arise.
Furthermore I have 2 questions to any non-hijab wearing female (by the way hijab is a way of life not just a head cover)...providing and assuming that you pray salat but don't cover your hair..what do you do?? Do you go out dressed liberally and then when its prayer time go someplace secluded, put on something to cover your awrah and then pray??? why??? I am asking a genuine question here not being sarcastic...I'm just curious. In addition, I want to know what justification do you use for not wearing hijab? (and a good number of them even bash women that do and brand them as being illiterate and backward which I find disgusting and its on this site that I have read many anti-jalbab/niqaab comments which I think should make the commentators ashamed of themselves) I mean do you admit it as being a weakness of yours? Pls dont answer this with round about things like you can still do so and so and be a great Muslim and not wear hijab, that is not my question..my question is simple when you know its stated in Qu'ran how do you justify going against that in practice? Again, I am indifferent to women not doing hijab and only get irked when they attack women that do but I'm just curious to know how they think/feel. In addition, I think its so important for a woman to educate herself on hijab and make the decision herself and for others not to force her to do it as thats just pointless and oppressive. If a woman understands and chooses it she is more likely to adhere to it and this will prevent the breakout of such negative stories that come out in the press of some woman from some Islamic country that came to the UK/some non-Islamic land and sold her story to the papers how her family/govt/husband forced her to cover up her body and how it made her feel weak, oppressed etc but how now that she's found "freedom" she chooses to abandon it and live as she pleases and dress how she feels is good and how she's so thankful for democracy and Western ideals and values their way of life etc..