 MPACUK is supporting the Lobby of Parliament: End Israeli Occupation: Peace for All. This is your chance to make sure your MP works for YOU - and urgently supports the human rights of our brothers and sisters in Palestine. Please make sure Muslims join all those working for justice at the important event.
Lobby Parliament
End Israeli occupation:
Peace for all
Lobby of Parliament
28 November
2–6pm Westminster
London
The Enough! coalition are organising a mass lobby of Parliament in support of the Palestinian people. To make it a success we need you to talk to your MP and tell him or her why it is necessary that Israel end it's occupation of Palestinian land.
For more details see The Enough! Coalition website.
What to do before the briefing:
Contact your MP as soon as possible and arrange a meeting with them on Wednesday 28 November. If you don’t know who your MP is, go to www.faxyourmp.com or phone 020 7219 3000. Briefly explain to your MP what you would like to speak to them about.
Please let us know when you have an appointment with your MP so we can co-ordinate with other people in the same constituency.
Download a guide to lobbying produced by CAABU.
When you meet with your MP, please make the following points:
Isolation
Our government must end the economic and political isolation of Gaza immediately. 1.5million Palestinians in Gaza are suffering a humanitarian disaster with 87% of Gazans living below the poverty line.
International law
Our government must insist that Israel complies with international law and ends its continuing expansion of settlements on occupied Palestinian land. There are currently 500,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
Illegal wall
Our government must respect the International Court of Justice advisory opinion regarding the illegal wall in the West Bank and Jerusalem and hold Israel to account. The route of the Wall is effectively annexing 10 per cent of the West Bank to Israel, leaving 49,400 Palestinians stranded between the Green Line and the wall.
Democratic principles
Our government must recognise those elected democratically by the Palestinian people and help to reconcile the differences between Fatah and Hamas. All illegally held political prisoners by both sides, especially children, must be released.
Readers have left 29 comments.
This is such an important event - I really recommend everyone makes the effort to go and meet your MP. I went last year and only saw a handful of other Muslims among the hundreds who were there lobbying their MPs in support of Palestine. I'm so ashamed that when it comes to taking action for the Palestinians Muslims just sit back and leave others to do the hard work.
It tends to be left wing non-Muslims who are all in a tizzy about Israel.
I wonder how many of their MP's are Conservative Friends of Israel or Labour Friends of Israel. Quite a lot.
The ICJ ruling has no legal enforcement. Its not a wall, Its a fence with a small section that could be called a Wall in Jerusalem.
Since its purpose is to stop Israelis being killed I don't know why people aren't more supportive.
With regard to 'International Law': will you also be insisting that Paletinian 'ploitical# parties accept Israel's right to exist as set down in UN resolution 242?
Surely this "Fence" saves Palestinian lives because suicide bombers find it difficult to get into Israel. Therefore, Israel has no need to re-invade Palestinian towns to find the suicide bomber infrastructure.
In fact MOSt suicide bombers are caught/stopped around the fence.
This is the option that cause least deaths. Why would anyone want to close it down?
Surely this "Fence" saves Palestinian lives because suicide bombers find it difficult to get into Israel. Therefore, Israel has no need to re-invade Palestinian towns to find the suicide bomber infrastructure.
In fact MOSTt suicide bombers are caught/stopped around the fence.
This is the option that cause least deaths. Why would anyone want to close it down? — SamsonThis would be true if the fence/wall/barrier only surrounded the Israel/Palestine border, but in reality the fence/wall/barrier has been constructed deep within Palestinian territory, restricting movement and splitting up communities.
Surely this "Fence" saves Palestinian lives because suicide bombers find it difficult to get into Israel. Therefore, Israel has no need to re-invade Palestinian towns to find the suicide bomber infrastructure.
In fact MOSTt suicide bombers are caught/stopped around the fence.
This is the option that cause least deaths. Why would anyone want to close it down? — SyedThis would be true if the fence/wall/barrier only surrounded the Israel/Palestine border, but in reality the fence/wall/barrier has been constructed deep within Palestinian territory, restricting movement and splitting up communities. No, its true even if the fence/barrier/wall was on Mars. If it is a deterrent then both Palestinians and Israelis benefit. Anyway, why are they suicide bombing Israel and firing Qassam's when there is a peace conference to settle it without bloodshed?
What makes you think jack straw will help muslims!! Muslims in Blackburn have no voice
What makes you think jack straw will help muslims!! Muslims in Blackburn have no voice — I SidatHave they tried gargling with salt water?
It tends to be left wing non-Muslims who are all in a tizzy about Israel.
I wonder how many of their MP's are Conservative Friends of Israel or Labour Friends of Israel. Quite a lot.
The ICJ ruling has no legal enforcement. Its not a wall, Its a fence with a small section that could be called a Wall in Jerusalem.
Since its purpose is to stop Israelis being killed I don't know why people aren't more supportive. — SamsonClearly you need your eyes checked, when was the last time you saw a fence built out of concrete? And why shouldn't left wing Muslims be in a tizzy about Israel? Let's see is it because; - Israel has been in open defiance of UN resolutions for decades - Israel has illegally occupied the Palestinian Territories for over 40 years - Israel has built illegal colonies which it calls settlements on the occupied territories which in which only Jewish settlers can live - Israel has constructed roads on the occupied territories that only Jewish Settlers can use...2 for the price of one! Occupation and Apartheid! - Israel is the only country in the Middle east to actually possess weapons of Mass destruction? I'm sorry...but all of this is fine because Israel is the only Democracy in the Middle East isn't it? Well that's the broken record we hear time and time again.
What makes you think jack straw will help muslims!! Muslims in Blackburn have no voice — SamsonHave they tried gargling with salt water? Yes we have tried everything from gargling to literally sucking upto him but there's no difference, can you provide us with a justification of a 'tolerant' society without a voice
It tends to be left wing non-Muslims who are all in a tizzy about Israel.
I wonder how many of their MP's are Conservative Friends of Israel or Labour Friends of Israel. Quite a lot.
The ICJ ruling has no legal enforcement. Its not a wall, Its a fence with a small section that could be called a Wall in Jerusalem.
Since its purpose is to stop Israelis being killed I don't know why people aren't more supportive. — ZubairClearly you need your eyes checked, when was the last time you saw a fence built out of concrete? And why shouldn't left wing Muslims be in a tizzy about Israel? Let's see is it because; - Israel has been in open defiance of UN resolutions for decades - Israel has illegally occupied the Palestinian Territories for over 40 years - Israel has built illegal colonies which it calls settlements on the occupied territories which in which only Jewish settlers can live - Israel has constructed roads on the occupied territories that only Jewish Settlers can use...2 for the price of one! Occupation and Apartheid! - Israel is the only country in the Middle east to actually possess weapons of Mass destruction? I'm sorry...but all of this is fine because Israel is the only Democracy in the Middle East isn't it? Well that's the broken record we hear time and time again. Please state a UN Resolution that Israel is in defiance of that they are legally bound to follow. I'll save you time. Zero. The whole of the Palestinian area is an Apartheid area since no Jews are allowed to live there without being attacked. There are many private roads all over the World who's destination is security protected. WHy would a Palestinian want to travel into a Jewish Settlement. One of the reasons in the past has been to kill Israelis. In Saudi there are roads that say "Muslims Only". That's Apartheid. Why is anyone upset that Israel has nuclear weapons except for all the Arab states who now find they can't attack Israel without getting a devastating response. Israel nukes keep the peace.
Samson you are right palestine is an Apaprheid area accept the aggressors are the Israeli's.
Why are Israel illegally building settlemnts outside the UN agreemnt and have stolen almost 50% of that agreemnt?
There are no such roads is Saudi that's a lie and you know it. If you want to know a stae of aparthied then i can only refer you to Rev Desmond Tutu who describes pealestinians state to the Apartheid of Africa.
Why are people upset about Israel's nuclear weapons? because one it can target every muslim nation in the world to defend themselves of a 'threat' the reality is there is no threat to them its a big lie, there is no comparison betweeen thier wmd's and an ak-47 of a palestinian.
It's simple in the words of George Galloway 'no justice, no peace' Israel must withdraw from all illegal occupied areas and return to the original UN mandate not any other mandates that have been created by idiots in washington, i don't think there will ever be a state palestine or there will be a very small palestinian state with over a million palestinians without a home people who were thrown out of thier own homes by Israeli thugs since the illegal UN resolution was apssed without the acceptance of the people of palestine, you talk about threats to israel and how 'it will be wiped of the map' a question for you where is Palestine? What happened to it?
There is no 'Palestine'. It was only ever a colony. Consequently there is no Palestinian national identity - which explains why it has no civic institutions, no bonds between the people. The 'Palestinians' are Jordanian and Egyptian ARABS. This is an Arab-Israeli conflict. The Arabs of the PA have been left with their asses in the wind - abandoned by Egypt and Jordan and the so-called 'Ummah'.
Samson you are right palestine is an Apaprheid area accept the aggressors are the Israeli's.
Why are Israel illegally building settlemnts outside the UN agreemnt and have stolen almost 50% of that agreemnt?
There are no such roads is Saudi that's a lie and you know it. If you want to know a stae of aparthied then i can only refer you to Rev Desmond Tutu who describes pealestinians state to the Apartheid of Africa.
Why are people upset about Israel's nuclear weapons? because one it can target every muslim nation in the world to defend themselves of a 'threat' the reality is there is no threat to them its a big lie, there is no comparison betweeen thier wmd's and an ak-47 of a palestinian.
It's simple in the words of George Galloway 'no justice, no peace' Israel must withdraw from all illegal occupied areas and return to the original UN mandate not any other mandates that have been created by idiots in washington, i don't think there will ever be a state palestine or there will be a very small palestinian state with over a million palestinians without a home people who were thrown out of thier own homes by Israeli thugs since the illegal UN resolution was apssed without the acceptance of the people of palestine, you talk about threats to israel and how 'it will be wiped of the map' a question for you where is Palestine? What happened to it? — I SidatTHE ROAD TO ARAFT MAKKAH HAS A SIGN THAT SAYS "MUSLIMS ONLY". Next to it the sign says "Taid Riyadh" and states "Obligatory for non-Muslims" - meaning that non-Muslim must leave the road and go to Taif Riyadh and not onto Mecca. The photo of this road sign is well-known on the Internet. If you google for "Saudi Arabia: 3 French travelers killed in Muslims-only area" you would find the article and photo at Jihad Watch (as I say, the photo can be found in 1,00o places). In this case non-Muslims were caught in a Muslim area. We also had the case of a non-Muslim taxi driver who strayed into Mecca and was in serious trouble. Suaidi Arabia is without doubt an Apartheid State. Once you have to quote Desmond Tutu and George (Top Cat) Galloway then credibility plummets. Tied in knots aren't you? You quote Galloway stating Israel to return to original UN mandate and then we have YOU commenting that the UN mandate was illegal anyway. Get a grip and get a coherent response. Its got more holes than a colander. You ignore the Arab War Machine that attacked tiny Israel so many times that Israel just got bored of it and the Arabs got fed up being beaten so badly. Come on, let's support a peace process.
There is no 'Palestine'. It was only ever a colony. Consequently there is no Palestinian national identity - which explains why it has no civic institutions, no bonds between the people. The 'Palestinians' are Jordanian and Egyptian ARABS. This is an Arab-Israeli conflict. The Arabs of the PA have been left with their asses in the wind - abandoned by Egypt and Jordan and the so-called 'Ummah'. — jeffStrange how "Palestiniain Solidarity" is ignored by Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia. You get the feeling they are treated in the way that the caricature suggests the Brits treat the Irish or Gypsies.
It tends to be left wing non-Muslims who are all in a tizzy about Israel.
I wonder how many of their MP's are Conservative Friends of Israel or Labour Friends of Israel. Quite a lot.
The ICJ ruling has no legal enforcement. Its not a wall, Its a fence with a small section that could be called a Wall in Jerusalem.
Since its purpose is to stop Israelis being killed I don't know why people aren't more supportive. — SamsonClearly you need your eyes checked, when was the last time you saw a fence built out of concrete? And why shouldn't left wing Muslims be in a tizzy about Israel? Let's see is it because; - Israel has been in open defiance of UN resolutions for decades - Israel has illegally occupied the Palestinian Territories for over 40 years - Israel has built illegal colonies which it calls settlements on the occupied territories which in which only Jewish settlers can live - Israel has constructed roads on the occupied territories that only Jewish Settlers can use...2 for the price of one! Occupation and Apartheid! - Israel is the only country in the Middle east to actually possess weapons of Mass destruction? I'm sorry...but all of this is fine because Israel is the only Democracy in the Middle East isn't it? Well that's the broken record we hear time and time again. Please state a UN Resolution that Israel is in defiance of that they are legally bound to follow. I'll save you time. Zero. You really should think or at least do some research before you type. UN resolution 242 calls for the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from the occupied territories And if you opened your eyes you'd realise that the territories are still occupied hence that would equate to continued defiance. I guess in your books this would only count as defiance if the resolution was against Iran, right? Given that you lack knowledge about this area here are a couple more resolutions that Israel has violated, thrown in for free! UN resolution 298 deplores Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem UN resolution 452 calls on Israel to stop building settlements in occupied territories To defend Israel is to approve of its racist apartheid policies and aggression towards the Palestinians in the form of continued occupation.
Jeff you really are a fool arn't you? Palestine is recognised all over the world, if you back in history you will see writings on this state get a grip and stop you stupidity for once, if you have a palusible argument then reply.
Samson:
Your first point is beyond sanity the reason for this is because it's holy land and is for religious purposes only, e.g. a non chrisitan can't stand on the pulpit (i think its called this) i wasn't allowed to do this in italy because its religious i accepted without hesitation why? because my religion tells me to respect other beliefs why can't you people understand this its an old age argument get over it.
Your second point has no real foundation, no my credibility has not plummeted, infact you did not reply as i can see it. Rev Tutu is the most revered man in the world he is my hero after Gandhi and i take these men's words above any one elses (obviously religion comes first).
Yes the UN mandate was illegal you can see the explanation above am not repeating myself.
Your last point is absolutley and utter rubbish no the Arab states didn't get tired they bombed by your wmds get out of the media for information and start getting some proper information for once in your life before you start talking about coherence.
Yes we do want peace but the original mandate must be in effect and that means israel withdaws from all occupied areas.
Zubair, you really should do some research before you answer.
Res 242 cannot be stated as a resolution Israel has breached or ignored. Res 242 was negotiated with Egypt and Jordan. Res 242 does NOT call for any unilateral withdrawl. It calls for a negotiated withdrawl based on agreement for 'secure and recognised borders' and recognition of Israel under an agreement of peace.
Hence, the Palestinians have flouted/breached or ignored Res 242 under you logic.
How can you breach/ignore a resolution that starts with "The UN deplores....." Big deal. It isn't a resolution you can breach its a resolution that is simply an observation.
Res 452 has no legal enforcement basis and is again observational. It conflicts with 242 in that 242 requires definition of borders and in the absence of any Arab/Palestinian willingness to negotiate 242 then Israel has decided where its border will be and built settlements.
What Israel have done is practical. If the other side is belliegerent and won't negotiate then Israel has been sensible in defining its borders by building settlements within them.
Perhaps the Palestinians should have recognised 242 and then this could never have happened in the same way.
If they are 'illegal' and the UN believes them to be so then what have they done about it. Nothing. Hence the UN Res has no force and isn't mandatory.
Israel has adhered to the spirit of 242 without the Palestinians bothering to do anything.
Withdrawl from Gaza is establishing a secure and recognised border in that settlements in Gaza (part of ancient Israel) were undefendable and hence not secure. So Israel gave it up.
Building settlements on the West Bank is building on ancient Israel again since The West Bank was part of the original League of Nations Mandate as well.
There have never been 'secure and recognised' borders of Israel and in the hiatus of the Palestinians refusal to negotiate it is no suprise Israel got on with it and decided to define them.
Have Israel been a bit naughty? Yes, they pushed the limits and took advantage but the Palestinians let them over their refusal to negotiate any number of peace deals.
They will get less today than they could have had after Camp David. That is THEIR fault.
If you have a belligerent party then you just move on.
I Sidat:
Your passion is commendable but it won't make up for academic thoroughness. That you think tutu is the most revered man in the world and that he's your hero is boyishly naive and proof of nothing. The Arabs of Judea/Samaria have had 60 years to recognise Israel and gain their independence as a 'state'. They choose not to - that's their fault. Any other group of people claiming to be a nation would have made different choices.
You should read more widely, less selectively. Don't read what you already know you agree with - that way leads deep ignorance.
Jeff the only person that is selective is you, what you have said has never tgouched the surface of academic reading, I do read widely and i have tried my best to find one book which saays the things you have, yes i have read how suicide bombing is wrong and i agree not only that but its un-islamic.
You think you know better lets put it to the test.
what happened to all those poor jewish families and jewish immigrants when the 'new' israeli state was formed?
What happened to all christians and muslims when the new israeli state was formed?
What happened peacefull protests and solutions were put forward to Israel?
Has there ever been a democratic leader in Israel who has not worn the army uniform?
If you can answer these questions honestly without looking at the internet or going to the media then reply
Jeff the only person that is selective is you, what you have said has never tgouched the surface of academic reading, I do read widely and i have tried my best to find one book which saays the things you have, yes i have read how suicide bombing is wrong and i agree not only that but its un-islamic.
You think you know better lets put it to the test.
what happened to all those poor jewish families and jewish immigrants when the 'new' israeli state was formed?
What happened to all christians and muslims when the new israeli state was formed?
What happened peacefull protests and solutions were put forward to Israel?
Has there ever been a democratic leader in Israel who has not worn the army uniform?
If you can answer these questions honestly without looking at the internet or going to the media then reply — I Sidat"Has there ever been a democratic leader in Israel who has not worn the army uniform?" What a stupid question. Is there any Israeli male over 18 who has not worn a uniform?? But, there is an answer. Golda Meir was never in the Army. Point lost! "what happened to all those poor jewish families and jewish immigrants when the 'new' israeli state was formed?" Some remained poor, others worked and made social progress. Some even got rich. Point irrelevant. "What happened to all christians and muslims when the new israeli state was formed?" Assuming the context is 'in Israel'. Answer: "They all became Israeli citizens with guaranteed equal rights and freedom of religion by the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. Spurious point! "What happened peacefull protests and solutions were put forward to Israel?" They were listened to! Its like the question "So what's wrong with the OTHER tie". Point irrelevant. I'm sure Jeff could answer more eloquently and in less bombastic manner but I find your questions rekatively purile versus the seriousness.
Doh!!! I missed it!
Has there ever been a leader of the Palestinians who wasn't a terrorist or leader of a terrorist group?
Arafat, Haniyeh & Abbas
Ha ha ha ha ha samson you really are an idiot. This bigotry just goes to show how twisted you are and all the, go abd research properly (other than the media) and just in advance yes i have throughly understood the conflict and agree with all academics, politicians (not the dumb british and american ones)and peace fighters. And by the way the questions were for some one else not you when i wanna talk to you i will, you've shown you hate towards muslims that's why i ignored the previous thread, word of advice please do your research before making stupid assumptions
Ha ha ha ha ha samson you really are an idiot. This bigotry just goes to show how twisted you are and all the, go abd research properly (other than the media) and just in advance yes i have throughly understood the conflict and agree with all academics, politicians (not the dumb british and american ones)and peace fighters. And by the way the questions were for some one else not you when i wanna talk to you i will, you've shown you hate towards muslims that's why i ignored the previous thread, word of advice please do your research before making stupid assumptions — I SidatI have great experience with blogging and debate on messageboards. Yours is the "I have to give up because I don't have a response so I will suggest the other person is an idiot - which relieves me of any requirement to show MY ignorance. And yet I have to answer to not let them have the last word (perceived as some sort of victory)" response. No problem. But its a bit too obvious. Try "We will have to agree to disagree". Leaves you in a neutral position.
Samson i have never gave up on any argument i ensure you get my message, i only agree with the truth and everyone knows what the truth is wether you like it or not. What's that saying oh yess 'truth hurts' i like this saying
Zubair, you really should do some research before you answer.
Res 242 cannot be stated as a resolution Israel has breached or ignored. Res 242 was negotiated with Egypt and Jordan. Res 242 does NOT call for any unilateral withdrawl. It calls for a negotiated withdrawl based on agreement for 'secure and recognised borders' and recognition of Israel under an agreement of peace.
Hence, the Palestinians have flouted/breached or ignored Res 242 under you logic.
How can you breach/ignore a resolution that starts with "The UN deplores....." Big deal. It isn't a resolution you can breach its a resolution that is simply an observation.
Res 452 has no legal enforcement basis and is again observational. It conflicts with 242 in that 242 requires definition of borders and in the absence of any Arab/Palestinian willingness to negotiate 242 then Israel has decided where its border will be and built settlements.
What Israel have done is practical. If the other side is belliegerent and won't negotiate then Israel has been sensible in defining its borders by building settlements within them.
Perhaps the Palestinians should have recognised 242 and then this could never have happened in the same way.
If they are 'illegal' and the UN believes them to be so then what have they done about it. Nothing. Hence the UN Res has no force and isn't mandatory.
— SamsonSo in a word, "might is right". I'm dumbfounded at your beligerence in failing to even acknowledge or consider that Israel's actions are wrong. You personify the term 'Blind support' Also, you talk of Ancient Israel, can you please point me to a museum that houses any artefacts from this ancient state? Every ancient state, even those ancient nations that were wiped out by invading forces, have left behind some ruins or physical reminders of their existence. Also, you classify all Palestinian leaders as terrorists. Would you then please explain to us all what the Stern Gang was? They were a terrorist group responsible for the murder of British troops in Palestine, the most famous of their incidents being the bombing of the king david hotel. But let me guess, for you they were freedom fighters right?
Zubair,
When you asked this asinine question:- "Also, you talk of Ancient Israel, can you please point me to a museum that houses any artefacts from this ancient state?"
My guess is that you just wanted addresses of any one of several thousand museums hosting artefacts from Ancient Israel rather than the denial of The Koran and its evolution of the period 2,000 years before Christ described in the Old Testament and incorporated into the Koran.
Your question is like "Prove to me there were Romans in the UK" - if otherwise.
King David Hotel could have been 100% evacuated following the warnings but the British ignored them.
Yup, they were terrorists - but then they were disbanded and outlawed at Independence. When will all the Palestinian terrorist be outlawed by the Palestinians?
Zubair, In your search for artefacts from the "ancient state of Israel" you might start with Tel Aviv museum, British Museum, and the Vatican. Israel's popular obsession with archeology has produced an astonishing wealth of material which has led to a detailed understanding of the the former Jewish states in the region. The Western Wall / Kotel is potent evidence of the spiritual centre of that political entity. The Jewish population were subject to continuous depradations of Empires - Persian, Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Byzantine, Arab, Mongol, Outremer and Ottoman. That they lacked the capacity to assert themselves as a nation state does not deny their association. If their continued exclusion and oppression denies them the right to re-assert their national identity then so too logically the Palestinians should be denied the same. The Books of Moses eloquently described the creation of a nation state with very distinct laws which ascribe rights to all beings (not just humans). These ideas were astonishingly radical for their time and shape many of our modern ideas. There is a tendency to view ancient Israel and Jewish nationalism through a filter of latter day religious prejudice, both Christian and Islamic, and that distorts our evaluation of the situation. This is firther compounded by the complexity of the relationships between Christain and Muslim societies and the Jewish communities that lived within them. Muslim societies are generally in denial about the treatment of Jews because of difficulties that would face them if they addressed their own history. Instead there is a tendency to create a myth which decsribes Muslims communities as being tolerant despite the plethora of objective evidence to the contrary. This denial does not affect the Jews much but it is profoundly debilitating for Muslim communities for as one commentator put it " a people without a (honest) history do not have a future"
|
