| MPACUK London Branch say no to Injustice! |
|
|
| Thursday, 18 October 2007 | |
|
1) 'The pre-charge detention refers to the period of time that an individual can be held and questioned by police, prior to being charged with an offence. For individuals suspected of terrorism, the maximum period is currently 28 days – seven times the pre-charge detention limit for someone suspected of murder.'? (Liberty) 2) The current 28 day limit of detention without trial is already the longest in Europe? 3) The UK police terrorism arrest statistics (excluding Northern Ireland) show that from 11 September 2001 – 31 March 2007, 96.6% of those arrested under the Terrorism Act, usually in the full glare of publicity, were innocent of any terrorist activity? (Link) 4) The pre-charge detention consultation by the Home Office admits that the case for further extension does not have any evidential basis stating “…since the 2006 legislation came into effect, there has been no case in which a suspect was released but a higher limit than 28 days would definitely have led to a charge.”? 5) “There is a real danger that the longest periods of pre charge detention will be used for those people against whom there is the least evidence.” ‘Pre charge detention in terrorism cases.’ NEW LAW Journal, 20 October 2006? And So The Campaign Begins.... THE MPACUK RESPONSE MPACUK are alerting the public of the seriousness of such legislation which as shown above is likely to affect the Muslim community above all others. We must ensure that before Gordon Brown formally proposes a bill to Parliament doubling detention without charge to 56 days, MPs are lobbied to vote against this. We will be contacting MPs across the country to outline the arguments purported by major human rights organisations against extending the pre charge detention limit and how this as a measure in the long term to tackle terrorism is completely counter productive. In order to make this effective MPACUK need the Muslim community to take part in this campaign and help petition MPs who may otherwise vote for the proposal. We will also be taking this campaign into the mosques and encouraging community leaders and Imams to support the campaign so that this institution can be used to its full potential. It is a necessity for us to fight injustice not only reactively, as seen when protests are planned in reaction to cartoons about our Prophet which offend us but also pro-actively so that as a community we can reap the rewards of being organised and having our views listened to. If you are living in London or the surrounding areas come to our next campaigns meeting to find out how you can get involved. The meeting will be held at: Date: 21st October 2007 Timings: 11am - 1pm
Venue: Email us now at info@mpacuk.org for more information.           Readers have left 16 comments.
DaveZ:
Quote
Why do MPAC UK care about how long we detain terrorist suspects?
Its a law that applies to all UK citiziens. I don't see the Church Council or Beth Din holding meetings and inviting protest. I seem to remember that the result of protesting about cartoons was the arrest of people for incitement to murder and racial attacks. Is that something to be proud of?
(1)
2007-10-19 15:15:51
Syed:
Quote
Why do MPAC UK care about how long we detain terrorist suspects? — DaveZPresumably because figures released by the Home Office infer that it's mainly Muslims that are being detained. So although this law applies to all citizens in theory, that's not what happens in practice. "96.6% of those arrested under the Terrorism Act... were innocent of any terrorist activity" The message being sent out by the authorities is that simply being Muslim is a good enough reason to be suspected of terrorism - not acceptable for a multi-cultural democracy.
(2)
2007-10-19 15:51:25
DaveZ:
Quote
Why do MPAC UK care about how long we detain terrorist suspects? — SyedPresumably because figures released by the Home Office infer that it's mainly Muslims that are being detained. So although this law applies to all citizens in theory, that's not what happens in practice. "96.6% of those arrested under the Terrorism Act... were innocent of any terrorist activity" The message being sent out by the authorities is that simply being Muslim is a good enough reason to be suspected of terrorism - not acceptable for a multi-cultural democracy. Syed, isn't it a fact that since 9/11 there have been guilty verdicts against Muslims for terrorism charges, a current terrorism trial involving Muslims and there were four guilty Terrorists who were Muslims on 7/7. In addition there is the Airline plot waiting trial. As a British citizen aren't you pleased that for the discomfort of being under suspicion (based on profiles who people who have been terrorists) you are protected by the security services? Surely, if there is a consistent profile of who is a terrorist then that community will face more investigation. Surely its logic and not prejudice. During the times of the IRA it was Irish accents under suspicion.
(3)
2007-10-19 23:03:46
Zubair:
Quote
Why do MPAC UK care about how long we detain terrorist suspects? — DaveZIts a law that applies to all UK citiziens. I don't see the Church Council or Beth Din holding meetings and inviting protest. I seem to remember that the result of protesting about cartoons was the arrest of people for incitement to murder and racial attacks. Is that something to be proud of? Then you should also remember that MPACUK called for the arrest of those individuals on BBC News, or had you switched off by that time? The right to protest through legal channels is our democratic right. Well done MPAC for giving Muslims a channels through wish to register their protest peacefully.
(4)
2007-10-20 00:41:11
Zubair:
Quote
Surely its logic and not prejudice. I guess so.....if you're not Muslim and have no fear of being falsely accused and having your life ruined.
(5)
2007-10-20 00:44:27
muzzylogic:
Quote
@DaveZ
"Syed, isn't it a fact that since 9/11 there have been guilty verdicts against Muslims for terrorism charges, a current terrorism trial involving Muslims and there were four guilty Terrorists who were Muslims on 7/7. In addition there is the Airline plot waiting trial." Is it not also a fact that one of the largest explosive material hauls found in the UK received no attention since the people in question were white supremacists? Is it not also a fact that they were charged under an archaic explosive substances act. Is it not also a fact that they got off? Hmm, don't recall that one? Hardly surprising given the immense coverage it received. Look up Robert Cottage and David Jackson. Yes, they really suited your "profile" there, didn't they? No wonder they were completely innocent of planning any conceivable terrorist activity and therefore not even detained under these new laws we put in place to protect our safety. "As a British citizen aren't you pleased that for the discomfort of being under suspicion (based on profiles who people who have been terrorists) you are protected by the security services?" Why, would you? "Surely, if there is a consistent profile of who is a terrorist then that community will face more investigation. Surely its logic and not prejudice. During the times of the IRA it was Irish accents under suspicion." And what happened when lots of innocent Irish people were locked up on suspicion alone? Did it make the majority feel pleased that despite being under suspicion they were safer? Or did it only help radicalise further groups of angry young republicans? I lived under the era of IRA terrorism on the mainland. I recall the Brighton bombing, one of the most audacious acts they ever attempted. I narrowly avoided the 1996 Manchester bombing. Despite these and many other incidents, the country behaved with considerably more sense and stoicism than it has in face of the new "bogeyman". If we learned anything from that period at all it's that singling out people based on race/ethnicity/religion and cracking down on them simply because a minority amongst them causes us a problem is not a valid solution to that problem. Unfortunately, those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
(6)
2007-10-20 15:29:52
DaveZ:
Quote
@DaveZ — muzzylogic"Syed, isn't it a fact that since 9/11 there have been guilty verdicts against Muslims for terrorism charges, a current terrorism trial involving Muslims and there were four guilty Terrorists who were Muslims on 7/7. In addition there is the Airline plot waiting trial." Is it not also a fact that one of the largest explosive material hauls found in the UK received no attention since the people in question were white supremacists? Is it not also a fact that they were charged under an archaic explosive substances act. Is it not also a fact that they got off? Hmm, don't recall that one? Hardly surprising given the immense coverage it received. Look up Robert Cottage and David Jackson. Yes, they really suited your "profile" there, didn't they? No wonder they were completely innocent of planning any conceivable terrorist activity and therefore not even detained under these new laws we put in place to protect our safety. "As a British citizen aren't you pleased that for the discomfort of being under suspicion (based on profiles who people who have been terrorists) you are protected by the security services?" Why, would you? "Surely, if there is a consistent profile of who is a terrorist then that community will face more investigation. Surely its logic and not prejudice. During the times of the IRA it was Irish accents under suspicion." And what happened when lots of innocent Irish people were locked up on suspicion alone? Did it make the majority feel pleased that despite being under suspicion they were safer? Or did it only help radicalise further groups of angry young republicans? I lived under the era of IRA terrorism on the mainland. I recall the Brighton bombing, one of the most audacious acts they ever attempted. I narrowly avoided the 1996 Manchester bombing. Despite these and many other incidents, the country behaved with considerably more sense and stoicism than it has in face of the new "bogeyman". If we learned anything from that period at all it's that singling out people based on race/ethnicity/religion and cracking down on them simply because a minority amongst them causes us a problem is not a valid solution to that problem. Unfortunately, those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. What history teaches us is if Elvis Presley impersonators are shown to be responsible for terrorist atrocities, found to have plans for such atrocities or are involved in contact chains with other Elvis Presley impersonators then when we are on our guard against terrorism we look out for Elvis Presley impersonators. That is until Michael Jackson impersonators start to be a bigger threat.
(7)
2007-10-20 15:52:51
muzzylogic:
Quote
Ok, what about people that just happen to look like Elvis Presley?
(8)
2007-10-20 16:05:22
muzzylogic:
Quote
If you start banging up people that are superficially similar to Elvis Presley impersonators as enemies of the state, you are going to create a bigger problem as more of those people begin to sympathise with the impersonators proper and start growing big sideboards and donning rhinestone encrusted jumpsuits.
(9)
2007-10-20 16:07:56
muzzylogic:
Quote
Before I forget, would you care to remind us how the threat of Irish Nationalist driven terrorism has been reduced?
(10)
2007-10-20 16:09:24
DaveZ:
Quote
Before I forget, would you care to remind us how the threat of Irish Nationalist driven terrorism has been reduced? — muzzylogicBy making the IRA realise they could never win and getting them to make peace with the Protestants. I know you are now going to ask why this isn't happening in Israel/Palestine conflict - but it has been tried many times in many peace accords and the Palestinians refuse to acknowledge any peace process. Proof. The signed The Roadmap but refuse to undertake the "immediate and un-conditional cessation of violence and incitement". I suggest you read and understand The Roadmap. Its not an interpretation. The words are there in black & white.
(11)
2007-10-20 19:26:17
DaveZ:
Quote
If you start banging up people that are superficially similar to Elvis Presley impersonators as enemies of the state, you are going to create a bigger problem as more of those people begin to sympathise with the impersonators proper and start growing big sideboards and donning rhinestone encrusted jumpsuits. — muzzylogicI'm afraid anyone who looks like Elvis will come under extra caution. We won't be so cautious about Abba tribute bands. It stands to reason you use the most obvious filters when seeking potential suspects.
(12)
2007-10-20 19:29:02
DaveZ:
Quote
Interesting how a statistic can be manipulated for a purpose.
The quote:- "The UK police terrorism arrest statistics (excluding Northern Ireland) show that from 11 September 2001 – 31 March 2007, 96.6% of those arrested under the Terrorism Act, usually in the full glare of publicity, were innocent of any terrorist activity? " Big Deal. It doesn't tell the real story. Terrorist threats and plots have only been established over the last three years. 2001 to 2004 is almost irrelevant. No wlook at what the report linked to says:- "The threat from international terrorism is real and severe and shows no sign of diminishing. In fact, the reverse. • The police and Security Service are currently working to contend with around 30 known plots, over 200 groupings or networks, totalling around 2,000 individuals. This figure is the highest it has been. It is not a spike, but a new and sustained level of activity. • In this year alone, so far a total of 30 individuals have been convicted of terrorist offences in 9 cases. The number of people charged with an offence after arrest under the terrorist legislation grew from just over 50 in 2004 to around 80 in 2006." Clearly it shows that the threat has been recent and so the number of arrests in recent times is a lot higher than the MPAC quote. September 2001 is an arbitary date chosen to try and make a point that there is little threat when in fact there is a high threat.
(13)
2007-10-21 10:12:19
shan:
Quote
I would just like to say this issue has been debated before and all the reasons as to why this should not be extended have been given.
zionists with ever changing names come onto this blog and always spew the same rubbish every time,so do not waste your time by engaging with them as they are filled with hate for islam amd muslims. the biggest terrorists and acts of terror are being carried out in iraq-afghan-palestine-kashmir and chechnya everyday and the terrorists are non muslims,in europe according to europol 398 terror attacks were carried out last year only one was attributed to muslims. as someone said once find me the person and i will find the crime,what is happening is a witch hunt.
(14)
2007-10-22 11:40:55
DaveZ:
Quote
I would just like to say this issue has been debated before and all the reasons as to why this should not be extended have been given. — shanzionists with ever changing names come onto this blog and always spew the same rubbish every time,so do not waste your time by engaging with them as they are filled with hate for islam amd muslims. the biggest terrorists and acts of terror are being carried out in iraq-afghan-palestine-kashmir and chechnya everyday and the terrorists are non muslims,in europe according to europol 398 terror attacks were carried out last year only one was attributed to muslims. as someone said once find me the person and i will find the crime,what is happening is a witch hunt. shan, in the last two years how many Muslims have been found guilty of terrorist related offences in the UK? I believe I heard the figure of 30 on BBC yesterday. I have also heard the comment that there is a trial on terrorism related charges at a rate of two defendants a month. How many pending terrorism plot trials and defendants are in the pipeline? When was the last guilty verdict of terrorism charges? Yesterday. It is irrelevant to count the number of terrorist successes (based on old information) when the police are foiling plots and bringing the accused to trial. If its a 'witch hunt' then it is Muslim Terrorist hunting down innocent people. Why can't you face the reality instead of twisting a convenient old report that didn't count arrests and convictions?
(15)
2007-10-24 07:36:07
DaveZ:
Quote
I would just like to say this issue has been debated before and all the reasons as to why this should not be extended have been given. — shanzionists with ever changing names come onto this blog and always spew the same rubbish every time,so do not waste your time by engaging with them as they are filled with hate for islam amd muslims. the biggest terrorists and acts of terror are being carried out in iraq-afghan-palestine-kashmir and chechnya everyday and the terrorists are non muslims,in europe according to europol 398 terror attacks were carried out last year only one was attributed to muslims. as someone said once find me the person and i will find the crime,what is happening is a witch hunt. "CARRIED-OUT" not foiled!!!! 21/7 was carried-out. Glasgow was carried-out. Mayfair was carried-out. You deny those found guilty. You remove 7/7 from the equation. Why do you cling to the irrelevance of whether a plot was a success rather than how many were stopped? Denial!!! Sheer blindness and wilfully ignoring the seriousness of this.
(16)
2007-10-24 07:39:57
|
Did you know that...
Search MPACUK.org
Latest Discussions
Recommended Books
