“1. Choosing to focus exclusively on the experiences of converts from Islam to Christianity…”

The programme was absolutely right to focus on Islam. Muslims are unique among followers of the major religions in proscribing death for apostasy.

All five major schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree that a male apostate must be put to death unless he suffers from a mental disorder or converted under duress, for example, due to an imminent danger of being killed. A female apostate must be either executed, according to Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanbali schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh), or imprisoned until she reverts to Islam as advocated by the Sunni Hanafi school and by Shi'a scholars.

Today execution for apostasy is carried out in the countries of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Yemen, Iran, Sudan, Afghanistan and Mauritania.

In Pakistan, the Palestinian territories, Turkey, Nigeria, Indonesia, Somalia, and Kenya, there are documented cases of vigilantes killing, beating, and threatening converts.

“2. …footage of ordinary Muslims walking down the street helped associate the violence and extremism with all ordinary Muslims “

The programme presented evidence that 36% of young Muslims agree with killing converts. HuT proscribes the killing of converts in its utopian Caliphate. This is a very real and serious problem in the Muslim community and should be represented as such.

“3. Although Ibrahim Mogra made a valuable contribution to the programme we felt Dispatches was irresponsible not to have provided further context about the traditions of tolerance within Islam, especially given the background of rising Islamophobia “

Dispatches was making a programme about the treatment of converts by Muslims, not about traditions of tolerance. Yes Ibrahim Mogra looked as if he disagreed with the killing or punishment of converts but even he chose his words carefully. He spoke of “British Muslims” living in “Britain” obeying “British Law”. Did the caveat “British” imply that he wouldn’t oppose the killing or punishing of those who leave Islam in so-called Islamic countries?

A significant number of Islamic scholars and ordinary Muslims believe that their religion demands that converts should be killed. This reality discredits Islam far more than programmes spotlighting the issue. Yet instead of asking Muslims to write to their Imams demanding they publicly renounce this practice, MPACUK asks them to write to Channel 4 as victims of ‘Islamiphobia’.

What a shame.

The Dispatches investigation about the violence and intimidation facing Muslims who convert to Christianity in the United Kingdom is certainly worrying. I personally disassociate myself from the radical elements promoting such an extreme form of discrimination towards those leaving Islam. As a British Muslim, I accept the Dispatches analysis illustrated that there is no “clear leadership” within the Muslim community to condemn this type of intimidation. If there were, these leadership organisations would have by now disassociated themselves with these violent extremist and clarified the Islamic position on their website.


All Islamic leadership organisations, including the Muslim Council of Britain should release a public statement condemning wholeheartedly the violence and intimidation experienced by those whom willingly leave Islam and make it absolutely clear that there is absolutely “no compulsion in religion”. This must be extended to condemning those individuals responsible for perpetrating acts of aggression. No Muslim leadership organisations in the United Kingdom have taken such a stance yet. This is terribly important that Muslim leadership organisations demonstrate to us that they distance themselves away from these criminals within our richly diverse Muslim community. As the Hadith affirms so eloquently, “He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet." Furthermore, I am sure you all accept that there should be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And God heareth and knoweth all things. (Surah 2 Verse 256)


The Muslim Public Affairs Committee must stop directing responsibility elsewhere; this is not a matter of any other faith, as stated in Dispatches. This is a matter for the Muslim community and one that needs to be fully addressed by both leadership organisations and wider Muslim population.


A special meeting of imams (leaders) and ulama (scholars) and Muslims throughout the country should be convened by The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) and other Islamic Leadership organisations to discuss what measures can be taken in order to prevent incidences such as what we heard on Dispatches from reoccurring in the future. It is not our responsibility to decide who should belong to what religion; it is the responsibility of that particular person. Additionally, I was horrified to hear how Muslim families are responding to their children or family members converting away from Islam, by utilising intimidatory and fear mongering in order to prevent that person from leaving Islam.


I though I would share those thoughts with you.

In Islam, apostasy is seen as treason against the ummah, and thus punishable by death. However, you'll find that most scholars will not condone capital punishment unless the apostate openly paraded their conversion and encouraged others to do so. In addition, this would only be applicable in an Islamic state.

Incidentally, treason is still a capital punishment in England, as are sexually assaulting the Queen and piracy in British waters.

Having watched the programme it was nothing but hyped up media as usual without hard facts.

if the programme had been carried out about people converting from other religions to islam then you would have found the same kind of expirences those people went through.

it was the normal gutter type journalism being shown at the moment.

one thing that has confirmed my beleif form previous comments is that most of these so called muslims converts to christianity would be shias as shism and christianities structures of beleif are similar.

the other was that most of these converts are desperate people who need permission to stay in this country,no person with sound logic can leave islam after fulling understanding islam and then reading other religions.

MPACUK, I agree with your stance on some issues but not this. You are quite wrong to criticise the media for their accurate portrayal of how Muslims regard 'apostates'. Ask yourself were despatches telling the truth? It was and it is simply weasel words to say they are 'maligning Muslims'. Aren't those that follow the Hadith and then threaten or attack those who change their religion maligning Islam? Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Narrated 'Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

The treatment of apostates is appalling just like the treatment of detainees in places like Guantanamo is wrong (separate issue). Khalid, there is no death penalty under UK jurisdiction for any offence since the HRA, off topic I know.

Shan: Please stop making generalised sweeping statements. You may be Muslim and the religion may be truthful to you, but to others Islam may have some faults, which they feel require them to convert another faith. People convert to religions, as they want to feel at peace, they have problems in their life, which they feel Islam cannot answer. They therefore go to other religions to seek truth. I do not blame them, for instance, look at our uneducated Mosque Imams who are not even versed in English, many of them cannot even answer pressing questions that Muslims ask them. They do not have the time to answer question, they are in the mosque praying every single minute of the day. The mosque has become alien to many young and older Muslims. Many do not go, as they feel rejected by the mosque and therefore people feel they would be accepted by other faiths.

oh ****, can MPAC UK remove the above article, some stuff i was writing up on my computer was accidentally put on the message hahahah but it sounds funny.....

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MPACUK Mod: What was presumably the "additional stuff" has been removed from the above comment.
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it would better to read my comment again mashfiq,i said anyone who fully understands islam and then reads other religions will not leave islam.

all other religions cannot answer more questions then can islam,as i said before the programmme showed the majority of these people to be asylum seeking iranians,these people need to gain rights to stay in the U.K and they feel by doing this it will help them.

some people are so desperate they will do anything to stay in the U.K,As for the laws of apostasy i am no expert so will not indulge in that except to say that apostasy laws are not applicable in the U.K as we live in non muslim country.

as to nations having apostasy laws in muslim nations that is their right just like it is the right of non muslim nations to make their own laws,just like nations make laws contradicting divine laws and actions.

i personally feel sad for these people that they feel so emotionally disturbed that they think the only way to stay in the U.K is to convert to christianity.

Not true.

The religious leaders of all other religions would publicly condemn punishing and killing converts. Only the leaders and followers of Islam approve of this barbaric intolerance in any significant numbers. Only Islamic law is considered, by some Muslims, to advocate the killing of converts. Only in Muslim countries is the killing and punishing converts state law.

So why aren’t there 1000s Muslims speaking out against this? In 2004 Prince Charles urged the Muslim leaders in Britain to criticise openly the traditional Islamic law on apostasy and call for it to be abolished throughout the world. They didn’t. Why aren’t Muslims taking to the streets to demonstrate?

If some Muslims believe that killing or punishing converts from Islam is a fundamental part of their belief system then so be it. However those Muslim forfeit their right to be respected, even tolerated, in countries like Britain. And they drag Islam and all Muslims into disrepute with them.

Such views are abhorrent to the fundamental values of human rights throughout the Western world. Its proponents here occupy the the same moral category as vilest intolerant totalitarians such as those neo-Nazis who call for the murder of Muslims, immigrants and Communists.

If Muslims want respect, tolerance and acceptance here then they should deal with this dark and dirty side of their religion. Don’t write to Channel 4, write to your Imam! Demand they renounce this barbaric view of apostasy.

Otherwise Muslims should accept that the more non-Muslims learn about these unpleasant beliefs, the less tolerant they are likely to come. The non-Muslim world will never tolerate the intolerable.

Shan, you are speaking nonsense on every level
1. Asylum seekers? Many asylum seekers are Muslim and UK law does not require a change of religion to claim asylum.
2. How do you know the people concerned were 'emotionally disturbed'? Oh I get it you are bigoted.
3. If it is the right of Muslim nations to have apostasy laws isn’t it the right of people in the UK to choose their religion?
4. Do you or do you not condemn violence and threats against apostates in the UK?

Your attitude goes some way to displaying the ignorance and bigotry that causes the violence, so at least in that regard your contribution to this debate has been useful.

Shan:

This is again a sweeping generalisation. Where is your evidence to prove any of this? Please stop using conspiracy theories and arguments, which are quite simply flawed.

all other religions cannot answer more questions then can islam,as i said before the programmme showed the majority of these people to be asylum seeking iranians,these people need to gain rights to stay in the U.K and they feel by doing this it will help them.

The programme may have done. But again that does not mean that every person that leaves Islam is somehow an illegal immigrant or Iranian or whatever else. They are using their common sense and researching and exploring other beliefs. I encourage anyone to learn about whatever faith they want, of course, I would want people to be good Muslims and remain Muslim. But that is a personal decision between that person and his belief with God or Gods or no God.


P.S. Thank you MPAC UK Mod for deleting that part. Much appreciated for your swift response.

rezav dark and dirty maybe your thinking and mentality,which no one can help.

you may find it hard to understand what my comments were,the laws of apostasy cannot be applied in the U.K as this is a non muslim country,if muslims nations have apostasy laws then it is their right.

in other countries there are dark and dirty laws which allow homosexaulity and lesbianism,those countries have decided to have these laws,it is there choice.

what muslim nations choose to have as their laws is their choice,all nations have laws whether they be treason laws or apostasy laws.

we know what human rights are and we are seeing them in full glory in iraq and afghan were nealry a million human beings have been killed by western occupation which cliams to bring human rights.

laslty tell me how many converts to christianity have been killed in britain,as far as i know the number of converts to christianity from islam is very minimal probally around a few hundred at the most.

asylum seeking shia iranians looking for stay int he U.K can harldy be held up as a example of muslims converting to christianity,it shows only desperate and emotionally scarred people can be coerced into accepting christianity.
also i said similar experiences and i know from people who have converted from sikhism who were told they will be killed if they are ever found,they were verbally abused and cut of from family.

as i mentioned before people who convert from other religions go through similar experinces so lets not try and act in a patrionising behaviour.

instead of telling us what to do maybe you will write to your godfearing human right loving christian soldeirs to stop the slaughter of muslims every day in iraq and afghan.

the number of apostates executed in the the last 1000 years will probally be less than the number of muslims butchered in iraq and afghan every week.

the nerve of these mass murdering butchers telling us about barbarity when they own the patents on the word.

yes the non muslism world will never tolerate that muslims make their own laws and governements they want lackeys and stooges,but on the other hand muslims will never tolerate being lectured to by mass murdering hypocrits.

Finally rezav and jamala are these new zionist names or former shias now christians.

Everyone else here is discussing the Dispatches programme and the attitude of Muslims towards converts and you bring up Iraq?

Is this moral relativity? Non-Muslims kill Muslims so Muslims should be allowed to kill converts?

I’m not sure your post really dignifies a response except to say that you are typical of so many Muslims who, instead of addressing the dark and dirty aspects of their religion prefer to claim victim-hood, live in denial and blame everyone else.

Where are all the ‘peaceful’ and ‘tolerant’ Muslims speaking out against killing converts?

So far we’ve got Khalid, Shan and Shalom denying, diverting and blaming whilst either supporting or refusing to condemn the killing of converts and only Mashfiq who has come out against it. That’s 3 to 1 against tolerance. On a Muslim website!

And you complain of ‘Islamiphobia’. Reading these posts, what is a non-Muslim to conclude about Islam?

well james if you bothered to READ MY COMMENTS the law of apostasy is not applicable in the U.K as this is a non muslim country.

do read the comments before shooting of your preheld comments.

james and masfiq we are discussing the programmes finding not my or your personal findings so lets stick to the programme.

finally mashfiq i speak from personal experience i was educated in a roman catholic school and i have studied christianity and other religions that is why i make the statements that i do.

rezav are you mentally challenged or are you plain outright devious.

from my first comment people can see that i said THE LAW OF APOSTASY IS NOT APPLICABLE in this country as we live in a non muslim country.

it seems some zionist is suffering from amnesia again.

Shan, I did read your comments and answered them. Unlike yourself I did not engage in moral obfuscation, i.e. mentioning Iraq, calling anyone who disagrees with you Zionist etc. The findings of the programme were about widespread abuse and threats towards converts from Islam to Christianity in the UK. Now how many more tangents shall we go off on? You have mentioned them being asylum seekers, which is utter nonsense. Then you said about Iraq which has nothing to do with the subject discussed. Let’s stick to what despatches were on about. But you can't as you know you are on weak ground; hence blame someone else for a tragedy affecting UK muslims caused by UK muslims.

james i suggest you go back and watch that programme again so that you do not embarass yourself by claiming that they are not asylum seekers.

the programme presenter stated that there is no exact figure but the majority of these converts are asylum seekers from iran and some afghanis.

you are making your arguement look weak and like a spoilt child you make up things instead of accepting facts shown by the programme makers.

when someone patrionisingly telll muslims what to do then he shall be given a response that is befitting to what has been said,iraq is what human rights are as practiced by chrisitian soldeirs.

how can something be widespread when the converts number in the hundreds,for something to be widespread there must hundreds of thousands of converts for people everywhere to abuse them.

as to calling people zionist when they assume muslim sounding names but show contempt and hatred for islam then they can only be zionist chameleons.
once again APOSTASY LAWS ARE NOT APPLICABLE IN THE U.K AS WE LIVE IN A NON MUSLISM COUNTRY.
I hope these words in capital letetr willhelp you,a sypous uffe rfrom amnesia that only converts to chrsitnaty have problems but no one else.

In order to understand this issue we need to examine the Islamic law on apostasy.

firstly Islam has never forced anyone to accept their religion as can be seen from this verse in the Quran,'There is no compulsion in religion' (2:256).

Secondly Islam encourages mankind to reflect and ponder on the universe around us and the message of the Quran,'Do they not ponder over the Quran or are their hearts locked up? (47:24)
And on earth are signs for those endowed with inner-certainty; and [likewise there are signs] in yourselves, do you not observe? (51:20-21)

So, Islam requires that ones faith be made on the logical investigation and the study of the universe in which we live. Through logically contemplating one realises the Supreme Authority of God and the authenticity in Muhammed (PBUH) claim to prophethood. Thus we find that in the history of Islam is that no knowledgeable Muslim has ever left Islam. The only cases of Muslims leaving Islam are of those who were never practising Muslims in the first place without a good understanding of Islam. However on the other hand there are many educated converts to Islam such as priests, rabbis and atheists.

In history we find that those who have left Islam may fall into 3 categories:

1)those who left having never understood the religion
2)those who faked a conversion to Islam in order to undermine the islamic community from within
3)those who left to support opposing forces in battle against the Muslims

Because of the first reason Islam requires that anyone wishing to leave the religion be consulted with first so that any doubts they have may be overcome.

The reason for Muhammad (pbuh) statement on apostasy is that at that time jews of madinah pretended to convert to islam and later openly rejected it so as to undermine the confidence of newly converted muslims. This is why the prophet ruled that a punishment be announced so that whoever accepted islam did so with conviction and not to destroy the confidence of the Muslims.

Now about the actual law of apostasy, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh did say, in the above historical context, "Whoever replaces his religion, execute him" (Bukhari, Abu Dawud) But how do we understand this statement and does it conflict with the principles of freedom? There is a hadith narrated in Sahih Muslim where the prophet (pbuh) mentioned that the one who was to be fought against was the one who "abandons his religion and the Muslim community". We should take into account that every country has maintained punishments, including execution, for treason and rebellion against the state (See Mozley and Whitley's Law Dictionary, under "Treason and Treason Felony," pp. 368-369). Islam is not just a set of beliefs, it is a complete system of life and this includes a Muslim's allegiance to the Islamic state. Thus, a rejection against that would be akin to treason. Rebellion against God is more serious than rebellion against one's country. However, one who personally abandons the faith and leaves the country would not be hunted down and assassinated, nor would one who remains inside the state conforming to outward laws be tracked down and executed. The notion of establishing inquisition courts to determine peoples' faith, as done in the Spanish Inquisition, is something contrary to Islamic law. As illustrated by the historical context in which it was mandated, the death penalty is mainly for those who collaborate with enemy forces in order to aid them in their attacks against the Islamic state or for those who seek to promote civil unrest and rebellion from within the Islamic state. When someone publicly announces their rejection of Islam within an Islamic state it is basically a challenge to the Islamic government, since such an individual can keep it to themselves like the personal affair it is made out to be.

Source: http://www.load-islam.com
under misconceptions

Take a walk down the Edgeware Road any Friday night and you will see a huge number of American missionaries targeting Muslims trying to convert them. Who is paying for their "work", why are they paying and are they working in the UK legally?

So you don't agree with killing converts in Britain because it's against the law here. How civilised of you! But you don’t have a problem with killing converts in Muslim countries.

Similarly, despite being an intolerant, violent, Islamophobic fascist, I disagree with killing Muslims in Britain. Got to respect the laws here don't we Shan? Obviously, in Iraq, I fully support the killing of Muslims as it is part of my sincerely held beliefs.

So, by your argument, that makes me a 'civilised' person, worthy of tolerance and respect.

No? Why not Shan? Why not?

Obviously, I am not a fascist and I don’t agree with harming anyone, anywhere for their religion or beliefs. I’m illustrating the double standards and crass stupidity of your argument. Do you get it?

Anyone who believes in the killing of anyone, ANYWHERE, for changing their religion is unworthy of respect. They show themselves to be intolerant savages who have no place living among decent, tolerant people. They disgrace Muslims.

You Shan appear to be the fascist here. Shame on you.

So why aren’t more Muslims denouncing Shan's vile views?

So far, in 22 posts, only Mashfiq has come out and condemned killing converts unequivocally.

It seems that Dispatches survey showing 36% of Muslims support killing converts may have been on the conservative side.

It's sickening.

Shalom, you have gone somewhat off topic. The bit about Asylum seekers is nonsense as UK law allows Muslims to seek asylum, indeed such a law is exploited often by radical Islamists and terrorists e.g. Kemal Bourgass. In fact if anything the immigration authorities appear to be more favourable to Muslims than Christians. MPACUK, it might be time to stop this debate. It has wondered off topic and sadly only one Muslim has condemned acts against apostates in the UK.

Rezav that took you a long time to twist my words into something else.
as i said before if muslim nations want to make laws that is their choice,just like nations make treason laws and laws to promote homosexuals and lesbians.

again it seems either you are mentally challenged or outright devious zionist,i said nations have the right to make laws they see fit,since when did iraq belong to america or britain.

if you are going to twist words think before embarassing yourself.

finally i say again that more muslims have been buthcered in iraq and afghan in a few weeks then have been killed in 1000 years due to apostasy laws.

who are the barbaric buthcers can be seen from this information.

Mashfiq like you is probally another zionist hiding behind false names.

What on earth are you talking about Shalom?

This is a thread about Dispatches and the barbaric belief some Muslims hold that converts from Islam should be killed.

A question to Muslims; does this person represent you? Is it just me but doesn’t it seem all too common that in rational debate, so many Muslims go off topic, become irrational, blame Jews/Israel/US/Masons, the plight of Palestinians/Iraqis/Afghans, claim victim-hood, and accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being a Zionist or evangelical?

Aren’t there any sensible, rational Muslims (except for Mashfiq) out there who can contribute some sanity to this topic?

I can’t believe that Islam is really a barbaric intolerant ideology that calls for the killing of converts and is incapable of rational morality.

But whenever one looks at boards such as this it seems that the majority of comments from Muslims are like Shalom’s?

Aren’t you ashamed of the ‘Shaloms’ in your midst and concerned that they are increasingly being heard as the voice of British Muslims?

If Muslims sincerely want respect and tolerance then they need to speak out against the irrational and extreme elements in their community.

You have an opportunity to refute the mounting criticism, throughout the world, against Islam and Muslims yet you stay silent and allow the likes of Shan and Shalom speak for Muslims un-opposed.

Is the killing and intimidation of peaceful converts, both here and overseas ‘Islamic’? Is it right or wrong?

The silence is deafening.

I can't comment on the program as I didn't watch it, but based on the above:

If Muslims are committing acts of violence against apostates then I'll condemn it without reservation as there is no compulsion in religion.

Considering the sheer number of Quranic verses and Hadiths that advocate mercy and compassion to fellow human-beings (regardless of religion or ethnicity), I would suggest that one would have to be quite insecure in their beliefs to feel threatened by an apostate to the extent that they would act violently.

As for whether it is right or wrong for Islam to subscribe the death penalty for those that apostate. This is not a general ruling but only applicable in particular (and rare) situations (see Galaxy's comments above).

Also it should be noted that ANY punishment for ANY crime under sharia law is the MAXIMUM sentence/penalty. Again, in numerous hadiths it is recommended to show mercy and to accept something less than that maximum.

In my opinion, all Islamic countries in the world today that claim to implement sharia law do so erroneously. They are tyrannies, pure and simple, and have forgotten the very essence of the spirit of Islam.

Wa Salaam

rezav you are so cvilised and tolerant that you are asking muslims to talk against laws of soveriegn nations,did it ever occur to you that your extremist drivel is getting boring.

shan speaks because other muslims can not be bothered to respond as they do not control the laws of sovereign nations.

lets put the boot on the other foot do you condemn christians for the rape-sodomy-torture and slaughter of nearly a million muslims in iraq and afghan in the last 5 years.

also during this time can tell us how many people have been executed for apostasy.

it fits truly with the pattern of hypocrits,who hide their own slaughter of humanity but beat drums and shout their heads of about,oh oh how evil are these people they have laws aginst apostasy,they are evil,but we love humanity never mind we butucher them like chicken but we love humanity really.

Jesus said if someone slaps you turn the other cheek but we follow jesus so much we go around killing people to show how much jesus loves them.

muslims will speak when they know people are sincere but when people talk down or patrionise them,they shall respond in the manner and tone they are being spoken to.

is killing humans being in the hundreds of millions using jesus,s name not proof that rezav and his like are supporters and backers of barbaric and evil people.

Thank you for your eloquent and helpful contribution Syed.

I fully appreciate the historical relevance of the apostasy laws. It is obvious that the Islamic texts which appear to advocate the killing of apostates, were written/revealed at a time when Muslims were at war with Christians, Jews and Pagans. Therefore a Muslim who changed their religion would be viewed as a traitor, as would a British citizen who became a Nazi during WW2. And I also appreciate that over a thousand years ago, punishments for ‘thought’ crimes were harsh throughout the world and across most religions.

However, I believe that the application or even support of these laws today is inappropriate and wholly unacceptable. It paints a very negative image of Islam as an insecure, intolerant and barbaric ideology.

It also contradicts the universally accepted human (and I believe Islamic) right of “no compulsion in religion”.

I found Galaxy’s comments helpful and reasonable but would take issue with the last paragraph quoted above, which I’ve heard from Muslims before.

When one changes their religion and wishes to practice it publicly then surely they have that right as long as they they do so peaceably. It is unreasonable and oppressive to ask them to hide in secret. There have been occasions throughout history when Muslims, Jews and Christians have each been forced to keep their faiths secret for fear of persecution. Surely we all agree that this would be unacceptable today.

It is up to educated and rational Muslims like you, Sayed, to present the civilised and acceptable face of Islam to people in Britain. Make your voice heard. And challenge the Imams and scholars who promote a barbaric, medieval and intolerant version of your religion.

Otherwise non-Muslims will be left with increasingly negative and hostile views towards all Muslims based upon hearing only the intolerant and irrational rants of the fanatics and fundementalists in your midst who are clearly shouting the loudest.

Shalom, it is a matter of historical fact that Christians have killed and persecuted thousands of people who expressed views and beliefs contrary to those accepted by its leaders. The fact is however, that today Christians aren’t killing apostates, in the name of Christianity, whith the approval of their Church leaders and using the Bible to justify their actions.

You ask a reasonable question and I’ll give you an unambiguous answer. Yes I condemn, without reservation the killing of innocent Muslims throughout the world. I’d go further and state that I condemn the killing of any human being for any reason. And yes, I scream and shout about it whenever I have the opportunity.

I’m not a Christian (although I don’t take it as an insult to be called one). Neither am I a Muslim, Jew, Hindu or Buddhist. However my understanding of Christianity and my conversations with Christian friends leads me to believe that pacifism and the love of others, whatever their religion, is a fundamental principle of Christianity.

Remember, Bush and Blair represent Christianity in the same way that Saddam represented Islam. They are not sanctioned by any Christian 'Authority'.

I know of no mainstream, Christian leader who supports the war in Iraq. Do you?

Finally, Shalom, don’t allow your justifiable anger and hurt at the actions of the US and Britain in Iraq cloud your judgement. This is not a war of Christianity against Islam. It is a war about oil, power, influence and control.

And don’t blind yourself to the indisputable fact that more Muslims are dying at the hands of Muslims than at the hands of the foreign occupiers. Denial of this fact makes Muslims weak. It makes them easy victims of manipulation at the hands of those who want to divide and subdue them.

But this is a discussion about killing converts. Take a deep breath. Stop being angry. Take time to read Syed’s post and think about what he says.

Your god gave you a brain and judgement, the ability to reason right and wrong. Killing or punishing someone for their peaceful beliefs is wrong, wherever they are.

Accept this and we agree on far more than you imagine.

Due to the majority of comments being off topic, we're closing comments on this article. You may continue this discussion in our forum.

If you have a genuine comment about this alert, email: info@mpacuk.org