Specialist teams of bomb disposal officers were sent to
Haymarket, near Piccadilly, following a report from a member of the
public just after 2am.
Haymarket was closed off while the
experts examined the car, causing major disruption to rush-hour
commuters. The bomb, believed to be a crudely-made, propane gas-based
device, was made safe.
According
to some witnesses, the light metallic green Mercedes saloon was driven
erratically and crashed into bins near a nightclub. The driver was then
seen running away.
During an initial investigation of the vehicle, officers found a potentially viable device. It was made safe three hours later.
Police
are now frantically searching landmark sites across the capital for
further explosive devices. They were not sure whether the bomb was a
lone device or one of several deployed across London.
A police source said they did not know as yet who was responsible. No warnings were received.
The
car was later loaded onto a lorry and taken away. Its most likely
destination is the forensic explosives laboratory at Fort Halstead in
Kent, site of a specialist facility known as the Igloo.
It is
understood the device was very crudely made. TV pictures showed a green
gas canister - the colour for propane - on the ground behind the car.
The
security scare near Piccadilly Circus, one of London's best-known
landmarks, poses an early test for the new prime minister, Gordon
Brown, who succeeded Tony Blair just two days ago, and the new home
secretary, Jacqui Smith, who was today chairing a meeting of Cobra, the
government's emergency response committee.
The alert marked an immediate test for his new team of ministers, Mr Brown said.
"The
first duty of the government is the security of the people, and as the
police and security services have said on so many occasions, we face a
serious and continuous threat to our country," Mr Brown said.
"We
should allow the police to investigate this incident and then report to
us. But this incident does recall the need for us to be vigilant at all
times and the public to be alert at any potential incidents. I will
stress to the cabinet that the vigilance must be maintained over the
next few days."
The defence secretary, Des Browne, told BBC Radio
Scotland: "It does appear to be a very serious incident. My first
reaction to this is, thank God that we have police and explosives
experts who can make these devices safe, and the arrangements they
appear to have done, and that nobody has been injured."
The bomb was found a few hours before the new cabinet was to hold its second meeting in as many days.
Earlier
this year Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan police commissioner, warned
that what takes place on the streets of Baghdad - where car bombs are a
frequent occurrence - could eventually reach London. It emerged that
anti-terrorist police last month were spot-checking lorries on the
outskirts of the city amid growing fears that extremists would use a
bomb in a vehicle.
It is almost two years since four suicide
bombers brought carnage to London's transport network, claiming the
lives of 52 people on July 7.
The current threat level for
terrorism in the UK, set by MI5, is classed as "severe". It is not yet
known if that will change in light of today's events.
But senior
police sources have stressed they have no direct intelligence that any
group or individual is planning such an attack on London.
One
eyewitness told Sky News that door staff at the nightclub Tiger Tiger
alerted police after the car was driven into bins and the driver ran
off.
The witness said the large Mercedes was being driven
"erratically" before the crash. The driver was not stopped. Tiger
Tiger, a popular bar, club and restaurant with branches across the UK,
is located at 29 The Haymarket.
Readers have left 105 comments.
Judge Dredd:
Lets wait and see if this was:
1) organised by misguided non-believers chanting "Islam" and retaliating for the murderous foreign policies of Blair.
OR
2) was organised as a marketing stunt by SANE, MEMRI, or another unofficial branch of the IDF Intelligence section.
Whoever it was, it is very scary to think that the war is being brought to our streets just because Britain has taken part in the murders of millions of muslims abroad and ecouraged Israel to behave in the same criminal manner.
I maybe completely out of synch with the fanstasy world. I mean this may have absolutely nothing to do with foreign policy in somebody's deluded world.
Judge Dredd:
Mike Bloke,
Why did you take your posting off again?
I actually thought it was a good primer albeit a bit too succinct.
Rain:
I read on the HT website the attacks on Muslims will increase because there is a anti terror law they're trying to pass and need to scare us and other MP's so they don't oppose the legislation. So it could be a plot by the Gov't.
ROB NAWAZ:
How convenient a person drives a mercedes into a bin then gets out and runs away.
if this was a terrorist action all he had to do was reverse his car and carry on with were he was going,unless someone wanted this to be found the way it has been.
quite convenient i say,it seems as the saying goes the king has died long live the king.
sky news are doing their bit,we have no information but it might be fundamentalist islamists,it could of course be irish dissidents or a homegrown fanatic or might be a simple case of the guy had no license or insurance and did a leggar.
we are told there was a gas cannister in his car boot so this is was a big car bomb,things are certainly being stretched.
Raja77:
david blind Blunkett
When will you accept responsibility for Abu Gharib, Guantanamo Bay, killing of thousands of civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine.
Then can you please tell me how are we supposed to get the extremist in our midst under control?
Do you have any suggestions?
Judge Dredd:
Thats the delluded fantasy world I was referring to.
David:
I agree completely with you Judge Dredd,
it is utterly deluded of me expecting you muslims to march FOR peace as opposed to you lot marching demanding death to: Salman Rushdie, to danish newspaper editors or demanding death to anyone else who offends your medieval religion!
Judge Dredd:
You said you were delluded.
I didnt put the words in your mouth.
If you are delluded about one thing, just imagine.......
ROB:
last time you looked throught the lens of dr goebells method of blaming the victims for carrying out crimes agianst themselves.
the world is wide awake to the reality of the occupation and the iraqi people are wide awake as well.
80 per cent of iraqis want the occupiers out,as they are the best ones to know who is butchering hundreds of thousands of them.
where ever so called christians have gone whether it be under the demented cause of civilising savages and pagans or the new perverted cause of bringing democracy and liberation one thing is fact hundreds of millions have paid with their lives.
i am sure the world does not want to be civilised or liberated by psychotic mass murderers.
If the rape-sodomy-sexual humiliation-torture and death of hundreds of thousands civilians in iraq is easy to explain away by saying we demonstrated then muslims too have demonstrated and condemned all forms of terror be they individual or states.
i for one can categorically state that any form of violence by british citizens of the muslim faith is wrong when carrying out political acts of terror.
now david will you state the same that no individual or state has the right to use violence against other nations for economic and political gain.
Judge Dredd:
So how do you know these are not more dellusions from you?
You already accepted you are delluded.
David:
TO ALL OF YOU MUSLIMS
So how about it eh? How about you lot organising a huge muslim march against violence, against muslim terrorism, in support of non-violence, in support of peace?
How about it?
Surprise us all.
Can you do it?
Judge Dredd:
......and those ones?
David:
Judge Dredd
Answer the question
Will you help organise this Muslim peace march?
If not, why not?
.
................................:
David - you should stop trying to play the governement blame game and take responsibility yourself before trying to dish it out.
and try not to be a racist whilst you're at it.
Judge Dredd:
you first.....about your dellusions. Have you seen a specialist? like mad mel, or daniel pipes or someone from Memri or inSANE - they may have convinced you of your dellusions but I am glad that you accept you are delluded.
Which only leaves one thing to say, you don't seriously expect an answer to a delluded question do you?
David:
..................:
Pray tell me, what I am to take responsibility for? Enlighten me.
And how is criticising a religion, or religions, racist? Englighten me on that as well.
Wellies:
It's a sad reflection on the state of the British Muslim community that you can guarantee that whenever something like this happens, a healthy amount of them will be saying it's the work of Mossad or MI5.
"This isn't Islam, Islam means peace" isn't going to cut it any more. You have a problem in your community, a problem that could have led to the deaths of nearly 2,000 innocent clubbers earlier on tonight. This isn't the rational reaction to foreign policy - mass-murder of civilians by Muslim extremists was going on long before the Iraq War. It's the consequence of the Islamist movement that has been growing in the Muslim world since at least the 60's.
Only Muslims can solve this problem. And that doesn't mean meetings between "community leaders" and police in which the former reassure the police that Islam means "peace." It means breaking the wall of silence in which these people are operating. Their friends, family, members of their congregation MUST know what is going on. They have a DUTY to inform the police. And if they don't, sooner or later the British public will demand real action. And then they'll see what it's really like to live in a police state.
Judge Dredd:
David, are you true to yourself?
Are you steadfast in your beliefs and what you stand for?
Are you an Israeli?
Judge Dredd:
Wellies, same old....
Keep up to speed will you?
Judge Dredd:
David Israeli,
Calm down, no reason to get fanatical and extreme, this is not a Palestinian concentration camp in Israel,
So apart from the answer being yes to all of the above,
Don't you feel that people like you are a venom to these kind of debats and should keep clear of such debates?
Judge Dredd:
Calm down again David Israeli,
You can be both English and Israeli you know?
Do you accept that it is the Israeli war crimes in the concentration camps (Gaza & West Bank) that are directly responsible for terrorist actions in the western world?
And if so, how do you think we can better reprimand Israel?
Why should the West pay the price for Israeli uncivlised ruthless barbarians?
Judge Dredd:
Wellies, don't get angry.
It you lot can only repeat the same thing over and over again, and cannot move the debate on, then I would say that it is clear that you are living in a fantasy world that has led to the situation in which we find ourselves.
Judge Dredd:
Rudeness is not going to further your points Wellies. Anyway, when you are ready to move on with the debate, I will be here.
Do you also accept that it is the Israeli murderours policies and our blind support of them that leads us to the current situation?
You are terrifying when you say you are going to "sort" out the situation Wellies, but you silly sounding name just fails to live up to you threats.
................................:
Our government went into a war in afghanistan but we had had not been attacked.
Our government then went into an illegal war in Iraq.
As a result thousands and tens of thousands have been killed. The numbers of injured and maimed are in their millions.
You should take responsibility for that.
Judge Dredd:
David,
I think we have moved ahead with your specific case despite your self confessed dellusions in you fisrt few postings.
So the rest of your rants are not clear?
Did you imply that we should withdraw all support from the uncivilised Israeli barbaric murderers of innocent muslim women, children and old men?
And do you feel enlightened enough to accept that Israel is deliberately importing terrorism into our country?
We should do something about it.
Will you organise a march against Israel?
Judge Dredd:
Ok, wellies, nice of you to withdraw your thinly disguised threats of sorting out the Muslims using Mob rule and the rule of the pro Zionist newspapers like the Express.
So can you stand firm and say that you will put your weight behind a march if David Israeli organises one against the cold blooded Israeli murderers of children?
Or is that just not important to you because you equation of "life" is warped?
Judge Dredd:
Uberastera do you also agree that we should organise a march against the Israeli murderers of children and importers of terrorism from their "country" to the UK?
Will you take part in a march organised by David Israeli?
Judge Dredd:
David,
Have you started organising the march against Israel to stop that "country" from importing terrorism into our country?
By the way, does MEMRI or inSANE pay you and the others for posting on here or do you get your paychecks directly from IDF?
Anyway, I am glad that in your specific case we have made progress and that you have accepted that Israel imports terrorism into the UK.
defender:
Why the arguments, this is Britain and every one here will damn well abide by the rules of this country when here. no argument ,no debate and no special treatment for anyone. If one sector will not abide by our rules then why do we have you here? Tolerance is not an unlimited quantity, there is a limit before it turns to rejection. What ever problems muslims have here in this country deal with it and take responsobility for your deeds. I for one has had enough of you constantly blaming every one else for your problems. When we have problems we deal with it.
Judge Dredd:
David, honestly, your dellusions aside,
how about if we reccomend that we get all the Muslims to leave the UK and go and settle in Israel and in return we get the Israelis to settle in the UK?
I know it is a wild card of an idea, but seeing as how you raised the idea of getting British Muslims to leave the UK, it just gave me an idea..
What do you say?
How is the anti-Israel Terrrorism march going?
Judge Dredd:
David, more name-calling,
May work in Israel (along with killing innocents) but not over here in our country.
Judge Dredd:
Uberastera - you first - you dont have to take my ideas and spin them around...
PS: does MEMRI pay you check?
Judge Dredd:
Uberastera,
Is that a no?
I take it that inSANE pays your check?
Do you also agree that Israel imports terrorism into our country and it is high time we abandon it and rescue our own country from the failed policies of are governments?
Judge Dredd:
defender, sorry everybody seems to be ignoring you and your insignificant post.
A suggestion: take the advice that David Israeli took and move the debate ahead.
I promise, I will reply to you when I see some evidence of the above.
Judge Dredd:
Uberastera, you would be well to know who inSANE are - they have the same insane delluded message as yours.
So do you agree that we should abandon Israel as a punishment for them importing terrorism into our country?
Barry:
Why can Muslims not discuss anything without blaming Israel?
ROB:
david i am still waiting for your response,will you condemn violence in all its forms whether by individuals or states.
defender:
judge dread, who are you to give me advice. dont be under any illusions that i am here to debate with you. from what i have read from you it is clear that you dont know the meaning of the word. read my post again, its quite clear what i have said.
Judge Dredd:
Uberastera, In an attempt to move the debate ahead, I take it that you DO condemn Israel for making the world a dangerous place. Barry....please! You are showing the same symptoms as David Israeli.
Judge Dredd:
defender, is that you DEBATING with me?
If you admit it then I will answer you.
I am waiting for your next posting to me.
ROB:
well barry if zionists and islamophobes stopped lecturing muslims then they might have no need to tell them their reality.
as jesus said he who has no sin should throw the first stone.
so i feel zionists and islamophobes are in no position to throw stones.
Judge Dredd:
Uberastera, I know that you like name calling but I have to take my hat off to you for calling Israel "pathetic really".
My only fear is that we cannot stop at that and we need to organise a march to prevent Israel importing terror into our country.
Judge Dredd:
So let me get this right Uberastera, you think that when someone points out the following:
1) Israel murders innocent children, women, old men
2) Israel has two open air concentration camps called Gaza and West Bank.
3) Israel has high-jacked the foreign policies of western governments through the fifth columns.
4) Israel is now importing terror into our countries
THAT IS JEW HATING???!?!?
Are you sure you are not throwing empty words around?
Are you sure?
And do you really think that calling someone a Jew Hater justifies the above attrocities?
ROB:
sorry to disappoint you uberastera muslims do not blame jews or hate them,the christians are quite capable of doing this.
as so vividly shown during world war two,the little matter of 6 million dead jews as claimed was done by christians from europe not muslims,at least have the decency to get your facts right.
it is jews who are daily humiliating-imprisoning-torturing and murdering muslims under occupation in palestine.
Judge Dredd:
Defender,
Was it you who said:
"dont be under any illusions that i am here to debate with you."
Well, when you eat those words, then I will get back to you.
ROB:
defender you will get the answer to your question if you honestly answer the following question.
if somr one comes and kicks in your door kills your son and rapes your daughter and takes over your home,forcigng you to live in the open what will you do.
the police say sorry we have no powers to help you,no ones helps you and this carries on for years while you are living in the open,the guys who took over your home lives with his kids and enjoys everything that was yours,what will you do.
Judge Dredd:
Uberastera,
I think you are leaping way ahead of David Israeli by openly making the following satements:
"horrible Israel"
Israel is "pathetic"
Now I would ask you to imagine vividly the innocent muslim children, women, and old men being shot dead by IDF soldiers.
Ready to take the next step?
Are you ready to take quite a few steps and denounce Israel for importing terror into our country?
Judge Dredd:
I "Defender" F,
you attempt at debating is falling below a certain intelligence limit so I will just ignore your remarks as you porking around.
Judge Dredd:
ROB, I will leave the MEMRI and inSANE employees to you as I have to call it a day.
Barry:
No Judge Dredd, I aren't.
I have been reading the forums on this website for a long time. There are a few shining lights among the Muslim posters who give me a real hope for the future. But there are far too many who make me deeply worried about about the people I am sharing a country with.
Muslims bring a lot to the UK and the UK is a better place for Muslims being here. I hate to see the way we are being split by the media, by foreign policy and also by the actions of a few Muslims. Blowing people up no matter how many times it is done is not going to make people see things how you would like them to.
defender:
I have slowly come round to seeing the problems dealing with muslims and i am starting to say i cant blame isreal from having to take whatever actions are necessary to propect life and property, it wont be long before we will be in the same situation.
ROB:
uberastera dr goebells would be proud of you with the figure of 400,000 dead in darfur,it seems you have learnt from him that if you repeat a lie often enough some people will beleive it.
please advise who carried out a scientific medical survey to show that 400,000 were killed,most of the aid agencies have stated that round 50,000 to 80,000 have died due to disease and starvation but on by drought and fighting between nomads and farmers.
the number directly killed in fighting on both sides is around 5000 as listed by the governemnt of sudan i would for the time being take their figures rather than yours.
as you are probally aware the biggest anti-semites in the world are the 80 per cent or more of ashkenazis jews claiming to be semitic when they have nothing to do with being semites.
its quite rich when a khazar of turkic background claims to be a semite and calls other semites anti-semite,for those who do not know 90 per cent of semites in the world are arabs.
................................:
David, " Well, tell me how I can accept responsibility for the war in afghanistan and iraq! What can I, or any other victim of muslim bombs in london, do about that????"
Well your rants seem to be seriously saying that all muslims can stop 77 etc... so stop being hypocritical for starters.
Judge Dredd:
Last few comments as I am getting ready to leave.
Uberastera, I am glad you made your last posting as it shows you to be a hating Israeli with all the right mix of dellusions to incriminate muslims.
Your posting about mastubating over dying muslim children is really quite typical of an IDF soldier.
Oh....and about the 400,000 figure, I am glad you didnt use your delluded fantasy to say 4 million.
Barry, I haven't a clue what you "aren't". So you also agree that Israel should not blow up innocent Muslim children, women and old men?
Lets hear condemnation instead of the sick words of mastubation from MEMRI/inSANE employee Ubi.
K.R.S.:
So....
A new PM is installed.....
The jury considers its verdict over the alleged 21/7 bomb plot.....
A "car bomb" is found outside a london night club.....
The area in question is covered from all angles by CCTV (Stores, Street, Buses, Tube etc), and will we get anything resembling a photo fit of the suspect....dont hold your breath.
Draw your own conclusions.
..............................:
David - stop delluding yourself about defending yourself and just look in the mirror and admit that you are after cultural and religious genocide with the intent of coloniolising and enslaving the muslim community just like the did the black man.
Judge Dredd:
I would just like the end the day from a phrase by Uberastera:
"masturbate over pictures of other Muslims being killed"
Everybody, judge for yourself anything this poster has to say about Muslims and about him throwing the Anti-Semitic card around to justify his "masturbae" comment above.
SICK.
TOTALLY SICK.
And we have to look for the perpetrators of terrorism?
Arrest people like Ubi for a start!
don:
Uberastera and all the other sick racists on this web stite, if you want to hate someone then hate yourselves for having such sickness and disease in your hearts and minds.
ROB:
uberastera i am still waiting to hear when this scientific medical survey was carried out to say that 400,000 people have been killed in darfur.
until then you can rant and rave as much as you want.
Idf soldeirs do not kill civilians they just use them for target practice and they like to practice on small kids and see if they can hit hem in the chest or head.
I see you have decided not to deal with the issue of who is a semite and who is not, i know you have been trained never to answer a question except with another question.
ROB:
Mia Smith america goes to war to free it self and free people period,you could have fooled me what happened to the tens of miilions of native americans.
is that what you mean by freeing people,exterminate them and take their lands and homes.
Then mia smith we have to ask the question why did we fight the germans when all they were doing was attacking nations and taking their lands and homes.
surley if its ok for the americans then it must surley be ok for the germans to have done the same.
it would be better to safeguard christian females from rape and paedophiles before you worry about muslim women,get justice for the 50,000 raped in britain every year and the 600,000 raped in america every year,the conviction rate is less than 10 per cent which means 90 per cent of rapists are free on the streets.
ROB:
uberastera the first sign of some one who has lost the debate is to make rude and personal remarks.
the facts speak for themselves check the records of young palestinians killed and see how many have been shot in the chest and head.
i am still waiting for the proof uberastera not your what pal goebells taught you,which scientific survey was done which says 400,000 have died.
then i shall tell you the reality of darfur from personal expirience,as to whether muslims care about the people of darfur or not check the number of british muslim charities who are workign in darfur.
if you do not like hamas delivering their bombs in person then give them f16s-apaches-cobras-tanks and missiles and then they too can shoot them from above and if one soldeir and twenty civilians die then they to can say we targetted the soldier and regret the colateral damage.
until then we are in no position to lecture them as they are doing with what they have,coincidentally why do you not metion that the majority of israelis are solderis serving-ex or intending conscription sees to that.
ROB:
whats the matter uberastera is the truth to painful to take,if you cannot take it do no give it.
your swearing proves that you have lost the debate,i think you better cool down and then respond logically.
BTW in saudi arabia the man was punished as well and in pakistan the conviction rate is 65 per cent if you go by their records,also they use DNA evidence as well in rape cases.
but guess what in israel rapists and sex assaulters are told be a good boy and do not do it again and this starts from the top, i am sure you know the president of israel moshe katsav.
ROB:
I am still waiting as to when and were a scientific survey was carried out prove or disaprove the number 400,000.
answer that basic and simple question in iraq the john hopkins university carried out a medical survey with 10,000 people and in 90 per cent of cases death certificates were provided,that is what you call a scientific survey.
The U.N is a pathetic joke on the worlds poor and oppressed people ask the palestinians-kashmiries-chechens-iraqis-afghans-tibetans-turkestanis and many others under oppression.
ROB:
thats the fantasy of people with perverted minds such as yours.
i again ask you give the proof that she was 9 .
answer a question with another question i am still waiting for the proof of 400,000.
ROB:
Mia smith and i am a offspring of the pilgrim fathers guess what the native americans welcomed us and we got them hooked onto alcohol and killed them slowly.
guess what if i could ever go back i would tell the natives to kick the pilgrims father arses back to their boats the minute they see them.
what next we will read some one claiming to be a jew and saying the nazis were right to kill the jews because the jews considered women as second class and not equal to men.
the jews were greedy and bad people so they in a way deserved it.
ROB:
uberastera it no were in the quran to be seen and it seems that you will not come up with the proof just like you have is fair failed to give th eevidence for your 400,000.
i shall respond to only when you ahve answered my question with proof.
don:
Uberastera - thinks muslims are not a race which is why they seem an easy target for racists.
All muslims have an ethnic origin and white people consider muslim are foreigners and not of this country. That sounds like racism to me.
You may want to call it religionism but that doesn't make it not racism and you not a racist.
Planet Earth:
It's very entertaining reading your posts. But then I remember you are actually real people and it's just weird. All sane people on this planet know that the Muslims are going to be wiped out, we just don't talk about it.We are civilized and have lives. We can't spend all of our time worrying about some sort of "meteor god" and who we should kill next.
It's called evolution, survival of the fittest. You're stone age minds are pathetic and you are therefore doomed. I feel sorry for you that your "religion's" place in history will be a joke and only remembered as prehistoric and barberic and most of all childish.
Feel free to say something about the Jews now, dead people.I'm going back to reality and my great life free from phcho's like you !!! Have fun being mad forever losers.
.............................:
MPAC - There really are some sick racists about. they just do not make any sense and just want an outlet for their sick hate filled lives.
I did't realise there were so many violent extremists about who want to target muslims with their racism and violent extremism.
What is the government doing about it this potential terrorism? I think this definitely shows that not all the extremist violent jihadists are muslims and so I would expect new anti-terror laws that mean it is not only muslims that are arrested.
Asquith:
Mia Smith
Who said the follwoing
I'M FREE!!!!
My father and or husband does NOT OWN ME!
and
Umm, who said I was married,
What on earth made me think that you were?
I' still waiting for you to tell us all what the rest of the quran says about the verses that you want to use for your propaganda.
By all means continue to tell us how the native americans were wiped out for their own benefit but genoicde is genocide.
...............................:
David
Uberastera - thinks muslims are not a race which is why they seem an easy target for racists.
All muslims have an ethnic origin and white people consider muslim are foreigners and not of this country. That sounds like racism to me.
You may want to call it religionism but that doesn't make it not racism and you not a racist.
defender:
we dont really care that you think british people are racist, we are not as racist as muslims in any case. We are not buying the racist card anymore. you will never be satisified until we submit and you will lie and kill to get your way. that is so clear now. we will never submit to your evil endevours
Uberastera:
## You may want to call it religionism but that doesn't make it not racism and you not a racist. ##
I'm not a racist. A white fundamentalist Muslim and a brown fundamentalist Muslim earn equal contempt in my eyes.
Stop trying to defend your pathetic, barbarous, backwards ideology through cries of racism. Especially when that ideology itself is racist.
Elusive:
Hahahaha
It seems this site has been infected with fascists. (Little green fascists probably)
Don't worry the virus usually clears itself up within 48 hours (short attention span)
Symptoms include the inability to enter into a debate without resorting to attacks against Muslims and selected ‘quotes’ from the Quran.
The failure to notice that there is currently no evidence at all to suggest that 'Muslims' had anything to do with the car bomb in London. It could equally be the Catholic IRA or the ALF or some right wing nutcase like Timothy McVeigh... who knows?
The genuine belief in retarded comments such as...
“Do you HATE my freedoms?”
And
“Why do you HATE AMERICA?”
Note the rather cute belief that placing something in CAPS somehow makes your point more compelling.
People really do believe that there are human beings out there busy 'hating freedom'... fantastic pseudo logic!
It is pointless asking them where you stated that 'you hated America' because such people will assume that you by definition 'hate America' simply due to the fact that you don't agree with them. It matters not what you actually said. This thread is non sequtuir heaven…
Considering the personal attacks, the number of ad hominem fallacies and the inability to answer simple questions it may be prudent to ask why they hate your freedom! Your freedom to hold the opinion that you do without being accused of 'hating America.' The freedom of ACLU or the red cross or the UN or Arabs or Europeans or even the majority of human beings outside (and probably inside) the U.S to criticise the foreign policy decisions of the U.S or Israel without being accused of holding Anti Semitic or Anti U.S. tendencies. Freedom appears to be conditional with these guys.
Many on the 'right' do not want to allow woman the freedom of choice when it comes to abortions. Some dislike the freedom of the Media to express any view that is critical of the right wing. Most do not want to allow immigrants, (in a land of immigrants!) the right to sing their national anthem (which is actually a British drinking song called 'To Anacreon in Heaven') in another language. They disapprove of the right for Muslim woman to wear the veil. They can be found supporting the religious profiling of Arabs. Criticism of Islam is compulsory whilst a criticism of Israel is taboo. Attacks aimed at ‘Mohammed’ are considered perfectly acceptable but the burning of ‘U.S flags’ (that were probably made in China) is considered insulting. They claim to support the idea of democracy... Well unless Hamas wins then they support all attempts to overthrow the such named democratically elected government.
They hate the way the terrorists behead people but say nothing when the U.S government gives substantial financial aid to President Karimov of Uzbekistan who has a little habit of boiling people to death. The list is endless…
Hypocrisy is alive and well it seems. Along with Xenophobia, Islamophobia and Fascism.
I hope your infection clears up soon…
Dom:
The opinions of people like Judge Dredd are so totally consistent with the strategies of a jihadist organisation such as Hizb ut-Tahrir that the only cause for addressing them is to highlight the fact. They are promoting an anti-western, anti-Israeli and pro-Islamist viewpoint at odds with the humble piety of their family elders, and being committed will not bend. Don't let yourself be wound up, because the agenda is one of sly deceit. Fact. I may as well add that I will read responses but not trouble myself to debate this point.
Cynic:
Everytime i feel abit sorry for some folk, i look at the above posts and my sympathy just vanishes.
can i ask all the racists and islamaphobics one thing, stop sending your troops to muslim lands and attacking and killing innocent civilians. Once you do that then may be maybe those physchos on the other side might stop their attacks
Stop intefering in muslim lands if you want peace from the crazies.
TAYAB:
Excellent comment by ELUSIVE. YOU SUMMED UP THE ZIONIST COMMENTS PRETTY WELL.This website should be renamed Zionist PUBLIC AFFAIRS COMMITTEE FOR ALL COWARDLY JEWS TO HIDE AWAY AND ATTACK ISLAM.very amusing
Raja77:
WOW!! Looks like all hells broken loose on this thread.
I have just been at a local Muslim gathering were there are talks of holding a rally against the terrorists.
After my first post, David suggested that we should demonstrate and show everyone as Muslims that what the terrorists are doing are not doing it in our name. I took this suggestion to some mosque elders, it was a long shot but I thought they might listen. To my amazement they did!! And there are talks with other mosque leaders and community leaders, of organising a march.
Thanks for the suggestion David
BTW, Where did all racists and Islamophobes come from. I would love to answer some of these posts, but there are so many I'll probably be here all night. So maybe another time
TAYAB:
Raja 77. Which terrorists are you refering to? For God sake don't be so naive as to follow the government agenda and start attacking any Muslim who questions this country's disgusting foreign policy. Remember that there has only been one on-Islamic retaliatory attack against this country a couple of years ago. The government wants to create a climate of fear amongst the Muslim community,so do not be so blind as to follow there agenda. I am not surprised to hear that the 'mOSQUE eLDERS' would be for this so called peace rally as they have proven to be the most cowardly when it come to our obligation of speaking the truth no matter what
David Grossman:
The Muslims have been implicated once more in trying to destroy Western civilization and killing innocent people.
The gauntlet must be thrown down now: either the Muslims in western society must aid in the crackdown against Islamic terrorism, or our countries must ask those who came from other lands to leave and take their extremism with them.
These two attempted car bombings are the end of my feelings for Muslims. Buckle down or leave my country, damn you!
Mr anonymous:
well its a similar story when the "terrorists" strike, when a bomb goes off and people die its because of western terrorism that has destroyed the lives of millions of muslims. incidents like july 7th happened because of the killing and imprisonement of muslims. MSK himself said this. so dont blame the evil mozlem terrorists BLAME THE GOVT.
Terror threat has increased in the west as a direct result of british foreign policy. the same goes for the USA and the other countries that have took part in this crusade.
the ringleader of july the 7th (MSK) made it perfectly clear....as long as the killing of muslim continues then the west will be a target.
now whether or not the killing of civilians is allowed is a completely different story, the point here is that the terror threat is only here because of the actions of the govt. so ultimately blame them.
TAYAB:
I do not want conflict and I deplore the loss of innocent life as Islam teaches me to. However, I will not be cowered by bigots who lay the blame on the entire Muslim community for the actions of a few hot heads wanting revenge for the thousands killed in Iraq etc.Surely any rational,sane,unbiased person would understand this?
David Grossman:
And I am tired of hearing Muslims blame Israel for their problems. Muslims in those areas where Palestinians now live - there has never been a land called "Palestine," it is a fantasy and will never be - are their own worst enemy. Hamas? Hezbollah? Do you think these savage killers will destroy Israel?
The Muslims of the world are the most backward, most poor, most unintelligent peoples on the earth. If Israel vanished tomorrow they would have something else to whine about.
How about bringing your religion into the 21st century? Stop treating women like shit, stop taking offense at everyone who is not a Muslim, and keep your stinking thuggish cult ideas to yourself!
Nathan:
Muslim better do something more then just talk and denonuce terrorism in the name of Islam, because terrorism in the name of Islam could lead to a war of religions that could find Islam on the losing end of nuke strikes.Just some friendly advise.
Nukemcausewecan:
What sort of people would "nuke" anybody after seeing the results of previous "lessons" from bullies.
Sloooow learners with short attention spans......what most doctors would diagnose as A.D.D. Ritalin is what usually helps Nathan.
don:
Uberastera:
"I'm not a racist. A white fundamentalist Muslim and a brown fundamentalist Muslim earn equal contempt in my eyes".
I don't think you read the post. All muslim have an ethnic origin but what you're saying is that they are all the same which is tosh. White muslims can be victims of racism as well.
Can't be openly racist against black people, can't be openly racist against jews so being racist against muslims is just an outlet for your racism. That's why religionism doesn't exist and racism does. As I said you just can't help being a racist but that doesn't excuse it.
carl smalls:
well to be truefull with you i came here expecting this muslim organisations web site to be comdeming this attemped bombing.
how suprised am i to see that people here are finding excuses for these killers.
ROB:
nathan-nathan nuke strikes you probally think its 1945 and only america posses nukes.
the world is very diffrent today and people such as yourselves show your true mentality by such comments.
for you and mr.grossman get a reality check the muslims have no wish to destroy anyones civilisation all they want is to be able to live in peace in their own nations without being massacred.
now is that too much to ask,the day all muslim nations are free from foreign occupation then we can stand up lecture them about human rights and democracy.
ROB:
well carl smalls who do we condemn because no ne has been arrested charged or convicted of any criminal activiety.
we all condemn acts of violence by individuals or states using terror tactics.
carl i hope you will agree with us in condemning all forms of violence from state or individuals.
Dom:
MPACUK is nothing but an Islamist front.
Judge Dredd:
Uberastera (who needs to be arrested for his terrorist ideas), Grossman, Natanayu, and other Memri & inSANE employees posting on this website have really shown the whole world their backwardness (& the backwardness of their Idol, the Golden Calf Zionist State). They have shown sheer contempt for the lives of innocent Muslim children, women and old men.
They have failed to criticise even ONCE the evil apartheid state of Israel for its criminal acts and contravention of accepted norms and laws of the Global community. They continue to argue against reality with the citizens of this country and continue to live in their own incubated fantasy that is drip-fed directly into their brains by MEMRI and inSANE.
In order to justify the criminal terrorist state of Israel and their importation of Terror to the Streets of our country, these 5th Column agents of the IDF constantly flick the Anti-Semitism card with worrying ease.
Memri and inSANE employees, or rather "5th Column", could you please answer the following questions to further shed light on the evil that you have made the whole world aware of through your previous posts:
1) Is it anti-semitic to point out that Israeli Zionists (IAF - Israeli Attack Forces) sacrificially slaughter innocent Muslim children?
2) How can you make such ludicrous, racist, evil, hating murderous claims about Islam and Muslims whilst hiding yourselves behind the Anti-Semitic shield?
3) How can you deny that Zionism is evil and a deadly threat to the lives of not only muslims but the natives of Europe and the UK?
4) Why do you apologise for Israel even to the extent of justifying murder?
Lastly but not least:
5) WHY WHY do you cowardly hide your "5th Column" evil hearts and hide behind the nationality (and white-ness) generously bestowed upon you and your relatives by OUR NATION half a century ago?
Raja77:
TAYAB:
Raja 77. Which terrorists are you refering to? For God sake don't be so naive as to follow the government agenda and start attacking any Muslim who questions this country's disgusting foreign policy. Remember that there has only been one on-Islamic retaliatory attack against this country a couple of years ago. The government wants to create a climate of fear amongst the Muslim community,so do not be so blind as to follow there agenda. I am not surprised to hear that the 'mOSQUE eLDERS' would be for this so called peace rally as they have proven to be the most cowardly when it come to our obligation of speaking the truth no matter what
-----------------------------------
Tayab Tayab Tayab
What are we discussing here. I am not attacking any Muslim who speaks out against foriegn policy, I myself am always criticising the governments foriegn policy, because it is an unethical forien policy, but that's a separate issue. What this rally is about is condenming the killings of innocent people here and around the world.
I am fed up to the back teeth when non-Muslims are always asking us to condenm terrorist attacks. Our leaders and numerous Muslim groups have condenmed the attacks and have always maintained that position. Bur everytime there is an attack or an attempted attack, we are asked to condenm it again as if our last condenmnation has worn off.
What the Non-Muslim majority don't realise is that we are made targets too.
Now when someone plants a timebomb in London to go off at a busy time the bomb is not gonna look up and say,
"Wait a minute, there are lot of Muslims in the area, I will wait until all the Muslim's are clear the I'll go off".
No, that's not what happens, the bomb still goes off and kills everyone Muslim, non-Muslim indiscriminatley.
The Peace rally is for all Muslims and non-Muslims to join. You can still go on this rally and continue to attack the governments foriegn policy, The racist state of Israel and the homegrown Islamophobes. This rally is about showing our non-Muslim friends here in the UK, that we condenm the killing of innocent people, whether they be in Palestine, Iraq, Darfur, Chechnya or here in London. We detest all killers, whether they be Americans, British, Israeli, or our own mislead fellow Muslims who think they are doing it for Allah, Because the way I see it, killing innocent women, children and non combatants is against the teachings of Islam.
Now thats what the peace rally is about.
All were are saying to the terrorists is this
NOT IN MY NAME!!
YOU DO NOT REPRESENT ME OR ISLAM!!
Hope you join us brother Tayab
Judge Dredd:
Raja,
I am interested in this rally.
Who is organising it? Is there a link?
Question:
Tayab
'...the actions of a few hot heads wanting revenge for the thousands killed in Iraq etc.'
If that is the case then Tayab why are these hot heads not killing and targeting Muslims in Europe ? After all the reality is that the overwhelming number of dead in Iraq are the victims of factional infighting between Shi'ites and Sunnis.
Somewhat reminiscent of something we got over in Europe some 400 years ago when Catholics and Protestants were busily butchering each other, people were being burnt at the stake for what they wrote and thought (Rushdie ring any bells ?)etc etc
The likes of JudgeDredd fill me with despair. Any problem and it always the same old garbage - " It's the responsiblity of the Jews/ Israelis/ 'Crusaders' etc etc "
We hear a lot of talk about the anger of Muslims in this country. I
will say this as someone who is educated, liberal, tolerant and in no way racist. Many Muslims I encounter seem totally oblivious to the quiet not publicly vocalised anger (very much the British way) of the majority of non-Muslim citizens of this country with regards to the most vocal elements within the Muslim community who are the first to talk about offence given to them at the slightest thing, yet are totally oblivious to the sensitivities they trample on and offence they cause to others.
Sometimes I think it is forgotten how tolerant this country is by some.
For example during the Rushdie affair there are those that demonstrated, thus excercising their right in a liberal democracy. Even though they had patently not read one word of the book that angered them.However they were not prosecuted under British law, as they should have been, for carrying placards chanting for the murder of a fellow citizen ie incitement to murder.
Contrast this with the film 'The Life of Brian.' Some Christians were upset at the time it came out, yet most realised that any religion is not beyond criticism or ridicule. If it is strong enough and inherently attractive enough it does need protection, or it's adherants to burn things in the street and make death threats.
We have Mosques with minarets in this country. How many Muslim countries can you state hand on heart allow churches to be built in the same way with the public display of the crucifix ? Muslims are free to protelyse their religion in this country, how free are other religions to protelyse and practice in the makority of Muslim countries.
Anyway most of this will no doubt fall on deaf ears of the zealots here. After all everything is always the fault of the Zionists isn't it ? For example Fatah and Hammas busily murdering each other, Sunnis and Shi'ites busily murdering each other etc etc. Anyone but themselves are responsible for their actions in the eyes of those with a mental blind fold on.
ROB:
well question lets take your argument that it is muslims killing each other in iraq and palestine and why do muslims blame others.
the answer is very simple occupation,if there was no occupation of palestine and iraq then you and everyone would be right to say why are you blaming americans or israelis when these peolple are killing each other.
the reality is fatah stooge abbas is being finacially supported by america and militarily armed by israel to fight the democractically elected hamas government you have to be naive or blind not to see that reality.
in iraq death squads trained and fianced by america using black ops attack sunnis one day then shias the next day trying to create a civil war thus saying look we cannot leave if we do there will be a bloodbath,this is the oldest trick of the occupier since ancient times.
Answer:
'....in iraq death squads trained and fianced by america using black ops attack sunnis one day then shias the next day trying to create a civil war thus saying look we cannot leave if we do there will be a bloodbath,this is the oldest trick of the occupier since ancient times.'
Here is prime illustration of what I was talking about. Pure loony tune conspiracy theory territory.
I'm suprised that you don't go the whole hog and suggest that these individuals busily blowing each other up and murdering each other are not in fact Mossad agents wearing beards.
People were quite busily murdering each other before the 'occupiers' were there, Saddam (a murderer himself) just kept a lid on these two factions being at each others throats. A reality you can't just bear to entertain.
Of course Iran (Shi'ite)for example has no ambitions in the region and has no input in fanning the flames of this factional fighting. That in your mind is no doubt just Judeo-Western propoganda.
Believe me I'm quite sure the Western forces would be glad to pull out, as would we all in the West, and leave these lunatics to it. Who no doubt, like you, will blaming the West as they blow up each others mosques, kill each others children etc etc After all we made them do it and they have no free will because they are just bunch of mindless sheep.
The same goes for Palestine.
It's all about power,conflicting factions seeking to seize it and exclusivly exercise it.
The fact that you cannot see that simple reality about the folly of human behaviour illustrates your naiivity and blindness to that simple reality.
Answer:
Rob
As an afterthought, with regards to Darfur.
Who do you blame there ? Is it the Jews again,Mossad/MI5/CIA in disguise, the West?
Or could it be that your Arab 'brothers' are happily murdering (on a racial basis) the indigenous 'brothers' there. Or is this just Western/Zionist propoganda again?
Able to acknowledge the truth in this instance ?
No doubt if Western forces intervened there you would be blaming them for the previous actions of your Arab 'brothers' in Darfur. They made them kill them before they got there.
Or perhaps the individuals who murdered Margaret Hassan, a Western woman married to an Iraqi who spent many years helping afflicted children in Iraq, are also your 'brothers' ? Her murder was not her killers responsiblity, but the Wests/Israel/USA/Mossad -insert the favourite bogeyman of your choice to deflect culpability.
ROB:
you call youself answer and question if you know everything then why bother commenting because self delusional people are beyond help.
since you find it hard to see the diffrence bewteen a criminal and victim,the only way you will undertand is if what is happening to iraqis is experienced by you,the rape-sodomy-torture and sexual humiliation in american and british run concentration camps.
darfur is very simple it is called power politics,since the chinese moved into sudan big time and started developing the oil fields,the western nation found their interests would not be served with china becoming a key player in africa,so they did what all western nations do in africa,gather theives and murderers and say we are fighting for our rights,it does not matter that those same groups are nothing but gansters who kill the people they are suplosed to be representing.
i wish to ask you a simple question what is the problem with people like you,why do you always have to rob and kill people when they have done nothing against you,is there a inherent gene that turns you into theives and killers.
Dr. Terrorist:
Robbo,
You sound like a defeated child. Grasping at nonrelated issues, whining about irrelevent events. You are done. Cry yourself to sleep or get angry somewhere else. There is nothing left for you to say. Superior men have defeated your lame arguments. You are embarrassing yourself.Unless you are a 10 year old girl.It would all make sense then. If you are you should have talked to your parents first before going on the computer.
ROB:
well dr terrorist or whoever you are with your ever changing names,the fact that you are making personal remarks is proof that you have lost the debate and have nothing to say that is logical.
Answer:
Rob
Do not confuse me with Dr above, we are not one and the same.
'..self delusional people are beyond help.'
Yes, you would appear to be right here at least, then you illustrate this point with the following with regards to Darfur -
'....so they did what all western nations do in africa,gather theives and murderers and say we are fighting for our rights,it does not matter that those same groups are nothing but gansters who kill the people they are suplosed to be representing.'
Delusional rubbish. An Islamist ethnically Arab militia raised by the government and let loose on the indigenous people of that Darfur and yet you still resort to the stock irrational delusional nonesense of them somehow being in the employ of the West. Absolute garbage. These are Islamists acting under the juristriction of themselves and their government and nobody else. All your pathetic conspiracy theories seeking to deflect that and blame it on anybody and everybody else is just sad delusional nonesense.
It is not hard to see where the kind of irrational nonsense that filled the heads of the perpetrators of 7/7 emenates from originally. You just illustrate the thin end of a similar larger wedge.
ROB:
Answer watch the news carefully and you shall see that darfuris are muslims and they are the same colour as the nomads,also watch the news were they tell you that the groups who state they are fighting for the rights of people are forcing people to stay in camps and join their groups.
this information was on the main news media not made up by me.
why have millions died in congo-rwanda and west african countries its called the diamond trade,watch blood diamonds and you may get a whiff of reality.
4 million dead in the congo yet do we see marches for congo,do we see actors pretending to care for congo like they care for darfur.
you can cry wolf for as long as you want but the people of the world are aware of the games of these hypocrites.
ROB:
it seems you have been well trianed to answer a question with another question.
you can say whatever you want but the reality is there for you to see.
check the main stream news media reports and you shall see what i have stated about these gansters has been confirmed,by calling one section of muslims islamist and the other darfuris you are insulting the very people you seem to be shedding crocodile tears for.
i am still waiting for answers to the china connection and the actors.
Answer:
Seems that MPAC can't handle some difficult points and questions hence the censoring of my previous post.
so much for their respect for freedom of speech, in spite of the post being civil.
Can't handle the realities re the Janjaweed or the persecution of the Christian minority in Indonesia obviously. Hardly surprising as it doen't fit in some picture of universal innocence and exclusivity of collective victimhood.
ROB:
Answer i am still waiting for your answers to my remarks.
as for chrsitian minorites facing persecution in indonesia it seems if a criminals act is carried out you call it persecution,if we use that standard then muslims are persecuted all over europe.
they are beaten sworn at and in some cases killed by criminals so can we claim this as persecution.
in my understanding persecution is when the state acts against one section of the communinty but not others.
in indonesia no such policy exists as is the case in sudani provice of darfur.
Police today defused a suspected propane gas bomb found inside a car
abandoned in central London, sparking a major security alert in the
capital.
