this is a joke, the programme was shoddy journalism, but the response is worse. Comming from Birmingham i am aware of the poison Abu Osama preaches against other Muslims, forget what he says about non-muslims. But i must say, although it is the saudi funded wahabis being attacked, and i strongly disagree with their innovation, brand new ideology, we as Muslims should stand by them, as this is not just an attack on the wahabis, but an attempt to brandish Islam and the entire British Muslim population as bigots and racists. The documentary was poorly timed and just another attempt to increase ratings by using Muslims as an easy target. The Sun's venom seems to be spreading throughout British society, and resulting in journalists leaving any principles they may have, just to sensationalise a news story.

Man!!!!!!! you got caught saying stupid, silly,childish, and immature stuff in a position of responsibility and as a reflection of your community and now you saying it was all out of context!!!!! Well i'm sorry the speech and talks they showed in whatever context has done irrefutable damage to Islam and Muslims in Britain and more grotesquely distort Islam to the non believer....Also all spoken with the arrogance and superiority of extremisms..Your's and others words in that program are now going to be used and distrubted by the BNP. They will hand out copy of that program like sweets and say LOOK we told you so...."Islam Is wicked and Evil faith" "they say one thing in PUBLIC and this what they truly think in PRIVATE as they claim already.....some of the best muslims were kuffar...But you and the others my friend use the term as a racist epitaph for the other, the non Muslim, the people of the book, etc, etc, etc. Be honest that is in your heart, when you use that word, the tone and when mixed with the word scum, filth, dirt, etc, etc, etc it is all to clear for me. the hatred, the distain in the speakers for the non belivers........I loved this show as it shows how a bunch of hypocrites rule over such communities, his lordship and how inept and so generally incompetent the MCB and other so called muslim organizations, groups, trusts and committee are on this and allow religious edict from a misguided Saudi cleric's

"we rent the place out" yeah well i won't accept that...you don't get your local church or synagogue rent a room out the BNP equivalent to give blooming talks about how they are superior to non believers or allow the sell of their DVD's and CD's....... I was Loving It. well done Channel 4 and Dispatches

having viewed the Programme last night I can say it was heavily edited and for someone who has walked and sat amongst the Muslims for 12 months - it shows the pain-staking efforts he must have gone to, to get such little information. Which shows the viewers that its not as abd as dispatches were making out to be.
And what was totally out of order was how the Sufi council slated of the scholars - especially targetting Green Lane mosque. And how the programme time after time highlighted the Governments support for the organisation UKIP .. i think.
One could think that could it be the Sufi Council allied with the tories came up with this documentary - never the less I will be attending Green Lane mosque and listening to the lectures and making up my own mind what is right or wrong .... in a way thank you dispatches for highlighting Abu Usamah, shame you didn't show the full lectures - and how he came to Islam and how much knowledge he has gained with Allah (SWT) blessing.

What a dirtbag! What a liar! Time for all "kaffirs" (or however they spell it) to go on the offensive.
Muslim women are SHEEP! Get up and fight girls. Your Muslim men are pigs.

totally biased/distorted/and manipulated..edited..with horror/sinister music


WE ARE TOTALLY ON QURAN AND HADITH.ISLAM...NOT DISTORTED/OUT OF CONTEXT/EDITED...TR.ASH

HAQ
http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=21905

1.OUR conduct should be sublime and captivating.

2.Whosoever should see us should accept Islam.

3.Whosoever sits with us should be inclined towards Islam.

4.There should be no need to convince anyone to accept the Truth.

5.Therefore, in this country if we wish to live peacefully and have an opportunity to present Islam to the host community, we will need to inculcate and manifest sterling qualities, not just inside the Mosques but also outside in the streets, in the markets, in your daily activities, and at home.

6.A life of Taqwa will immediately attract non-Muslims towards Islam.

7.we should earn your place and leave an imprint on the host community of your value and significance.

8.we must show your exemplary conduct is far nobler than that of other people.

9.we must impart on them the lessons of humanity.

10.we should demonstrate such commitment and noble virtues that impress on people that there cannot be found more upright humans elsewhere besides you.

11.we need to establish our worth, showing what blessing and mercy we are for the country.



DONTS.
1.If however we decide to live in an enclosed environment simply content with our Prayers and Fasting, apathetic to the people and society we live in, never introducing them to the high Islamic values and our own personal qualities, then beware lest any religious or sectarian violence flares up.


If we do not lead an upright life, if we continue to live an insular lifestyle, and if we fail to manifest the beauty of Islam to non-Muslims, then we face some real dangers.
Gain proficiency of the national language and use it to effectively propagate Islam.

Prepare writers and orators to convey the message of Islam.

Although we will distance ourself from their religion, do not distance yourself from them



Great Prophetic Lecture And Advice From Dewsbury Markaz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wonderful speech which was given 23 years ago by Shaikh Abul Hasan Ali An-Nadwi (author of qisasun nabiyeen)..... the speech was given at the opening of Dewsbury Markaz in 1982

http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=20081
__________________

I feel the show broadcasted last night showed the negative side to Islam to people. There are always two sides to a story. I live in a area where there is also a islamic community which prompts peace and sunnahs od the propeht SAW, and nobody cames there and broadcast that on TV. There are always people in any religon that take things too far. Also the comments about the women I believe are so wrong. Our Prophet SAW never said women are there to be hit and are mens shoes. For now this is want I want to say.

Can't answer a straight question can he?

Salaams
i think Dispatches’ has chosen to portray Muslims in the worst possible light. ‘Dispatches’ has opted for sensationalism over substance with total disregard for peaceful community relations.

This so-called ‘undercover’ investigation merely panders to age-old anti-Muslim prejudices by employing the time-honoured tradition of cherry picking statements and presenting them in the most inflammatory manner i have ever seen.

The problem is that little is done to criticise the Wahabis who are seeking to colonise this country as well as control Islam. It seems like Usamah in the documentary you prefer Islamic extremists to non Muslims as the extremists are Muslims. If you think this documentary which included comments by Muslims who were critical of the Wahabis, was against all Muslims you are wrong. Why do you think the Muslims in the documentary were critical of the Wahabis? Unlike you they have the sense to see the harm the Wahabis cause.

As a non-Muslim, I found last night's programme pretty shocking.
What is more disturbing, though, is that, even though Abu Usamah in this response sounds much more eloquent and reasonable than he did in the programme, he STILL sounds like an extremist - and there should be no place for extremists of any persuasion (Christian, fascist, Jewish or any other) in British society.
Learned he may be (although he doesn't seem to realise that the word "crucify" comes from the Latin word "crux", meaning cross), but his suggestion that Muslims are currently "weak" and should therefore wait a while, gathering strength, before embarking on military jihad is menacing to say the least. Sadly, characters like him - however they are portrayed by the media - do more good for the BNP than they do for anyone else.

As Muslims we should believe in and defend everything Islam has to offer. Islam covers everything from A-Z. We should not apologise for Islam, we should openly declare we believe in the A-Z of Islam. We should not suddenly disbelieve in 'J' for Jihad, 'C' for Caliphate, 'H' for Hudood Punishments and 'S' for Shari'ah Law. Especially because of some poxy documentary made by people who beleive in a different way of life from us.

Islam is our Deen, if you don't like it... tough luck.

Abu masa- if you don't like the way of life in this country, tough luck- we ain't going to change it to suit your religion.

The dispatches programme was not "shoddy journalism" and it is not the case that these Imams were quoted "out of context".

I viewed the programme last night and as an indigenous Briton and non-Muslim I was deeply angered and deeply offended. These individuals made unambiguous calls for the overthrow of the British state with an Islamic state, in which I - as a "kaffir" - will become a second class citizen in my own country.

If you cannot recognise how offensive and how dangerous the clearly stated views of those preachers within your community are then I despair of a happy outcome to this issue.

For God's sake rid your community of these extremist figures before the British populace elect a truly fascist government, and we all will suffer together.

This is the press release i took from there website, seems like ch were in the wrong and taken out context.

PRESS RELEASE (16/01/2007)

Re: Channel Four Dispatches Programme “Under Cover Mosque” (15/01/2007)


It is extremely disappointing but not at all surprising that ‘Dispatches’ has chosen to portray Muslims in the worst possible light. ‘Dispatches’ has opted for sensationalism over substance with total disregard for peaceful community relations.

This so-called ‘undercover’ investigation merely panders to age-old anti-Muslim prejudices by employing the time-honoured tradition of cherry picking statements and presenting them in the most inflammatory manner.

It is disingenuous of ‘Dispatches’ to give the impression that they have infiltrated secret lectures/gatherings at Green Lane Masjid and then sell this as an ‘undercover investigation’ when every lecture, in its entirety, has always been available in the public domain.

Dispatches failed to adequately differentiate between the application of Islamic Shariah in an Islamic State and its application within a minority Muslim community in modern day Britain. This vital distinction would have been self-evident to any viewer had the relevant statements been presented in their correct context. Dispatches further failed to distinguish between those individuals who work with us and those with no connection to our organisation who expressed views that we may not agree with.

We are taking these allegations seriously and we will conduct a thorough investigation into all of the alleged remarks and will interview all of the speakers in question.

Markazi Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith UK is an independent national organisation where democratically elections are held every three years and follows mainstream Islam, based upon the Quran and the authentic traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

We have a long track record of good community relations and peaceful co-existence with all sections of the wider community. We will continue to strengthen our positive partnership with the authorities in addressing the needs of our communities in areas such as spirituality, health, education and crime prevention.

We also deliberate the effort of tarnishing the image of national Muslim organisation and main institutions that follow moderate Islam.

Markazi Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadith UK unequivocally condemns all forms of extremism and terrorism, regardless of the perpetrators. We strongly encourage the upholding of the law and integration of Muslims within British society.


[END]

As a devout Muslim I found the documentary pretty shocking. Abu Usamah is caught red handed, and now it is almost entertaining to watch him try to weasel himself out of it.

In the Dispatches programe he says:

"No-one loves the kuffaar, no-one loves the kuffaar, not a single person here from the Muslims loves the kuffaar, whether those kuffaar are from the UK or the US. We love the people of Islam and we hate the people of kufr, we hate the kuffaar"

And here he says he was talking about the hatred for the deen of the kuffar?

I don't think so buddy. Pull the other one.

And the out of context excuse is just ballony. Read the quote above and tell me how can that be out of context?

After watching the whole dispatches programme, i found it deeply disturbing to find out that journalists are now so desperate to demonise muslims that they will use cut and paste jobs and refer to them as documantaries.

if the way this dispatches programme was made, was used as a example then Bush and Blair will be made to look like evil warmongering genocidal christians in their own words.

i think its time todays so called journalists were taught journalistic integrety, instead of hype and exaggeration.

The word for people who are not muslims is kafir, this is a general term used to describe people who do not beleive in islam, yet the programme tried to show as though the word has some sinsiter meaning to it.

its freedom of speach to insult and humiliate muslims, but when muslims practice freedom of speech its classed as intolerant.

The hypocrisy is only too glaring,muslims beleive non muslims will go to hell,christians beleive all those who do not believe in christ will go to hell, the pope says muhammed bought nothing but evil but that is classified as freedom of speach even though its totally false and not based on reality,father fessio one of the popes advisors says the quran is the work of the evil one ie the devil and its classed as freedom of speach.

i think what the establishment is trying to say is we are free to say what we like, but when it comes to you we shall decide what you can say or not.

The SUFI's were behind this programme, as all the experts were so called scholars of Islam (SUFI ISLAM), I would advice everyone to be careful as this is an attack from a group of Muslims to another group. The Sufi Muslim Council has some connection in this programme as well as the experts from other sufi organsations. Well done SUFI MUSLIMS your dividing your own community as well as giving a chance for the rest of us to criticize Muslims, let me say what goes around comes around.

Nice one Abu

This is not a muslim country - never will be.

If you don't like it... tough luck.

Shame on those preachers filled with hate and venom, now telling us they were misquoted! How many preachers are now claiming they have been misquoted? Why do muslims preachers keep saying in private, what they cannot defend in public? They were certainly not misquoted, their speeches were full of hatred, bigotry and venom (for non-muslims) and it is not acceptable in our deen. Our Prophet (saw) never hated anyone nor harboured bigotry even against those from whom he directly faced persecution.
Here's what they said:
The jews snorting like pigs joke, dirty filthy dogs (to describe homosexuals) and dirty filthy kuffaar, - it is not acceptable!! "Are you not ashamed that your mothers, sisters and wives are uncovering themselves in front of dirty filthy kufaar" (in reference to doctors). "You must not allow your children to go to schools with the kufaar". "I don’t believe them, because they are kuffaar, lying is part of their religion" - would we like it if the same thing was said about Islam and Muslims? What part of all those comments has been taken out of context?? Not to mention the derogatory way in which the word kuffar was being used for non-muslims eg. 'dirty filthy kuffar', where in our deen does it tell us to say this?
Althouhgh this is nothing new for us, what this documentary did is show (mainly for benefit of non-muslims though) that not all muslims are filled with hate, but that this is infact restricted to a specific minority group assisted by funds from Saudi Arabia. This is what is important, for me anyway. I and I'm sure we all, do not want the average moderate muslim in this country to be made or held responsible for the hate filled actions of a few, nor for the image of all muslims to be tarnished in this way.
Injustice, hate, venom and bigotry is being targetted at non-muslims by muslims (wahhabis) in the very society (UK) that muslims need to live in. So we, as muslims, first and foremost need to do something to stop this because it threatens everyone of us, our livelihood, our safety and Islam in this country. The shariah in this instance does not allow you to defend your muslim brothers and sisters when they transgress just because they happen to be muslim. A muslim must equally be brought to justice as a non muslim.
When you live and participate in another society then to some extent you will be told what is acceptable or not acceptable in that society, just the same as if they lived in an 'islamic society' we would be laying down the law to them, saying exactly what is acceptable to us and what isn't, public nudity for example will not be accepted by us. In this case, it is quite reasonable for the society we live in, to hold us to be responsible for the opinions we propagate/ preach in that society, especially if it is repulsive/ offensive to that society or will cause harm to others. There is nothing wrong in that.
I will feel more confortable being able to explain to people around me that this hate filled ideology does not represent me nor Islam.
I am sorry to say, that what has gone round for the wahhabis has finally come round for them. 'You shall reap what you sow' - Quran. I hope and pray that this will shake them up, and other hate filled preachers will learn from this, and those presenting similar rhetoric from non-wahhabi circles, and bring them all to their senses.

After watching last nights programme I was somewhat taken aback, and thats putting it mildly.

I've been watching Dispatches for years, and this is the first time I can vividly remember the programme not being subjective and impartial to its content.

The conclusion of the programme had already been reached from the outset, and the following 58 minutes were used to prove their point, with misquoted, sensationalised quotes.

So called "undercover scenes" were so badly edited and chopped and put together that they were so clearly taken out of context.

I have never seen such as a hatchet job carried out by a well respected "documentary maker" before....Channel 4 and Dispatches have certainly gone down in my estimations.

Whatever happened to journalistic integrity and looking at the issue in a just and level manner?

Recently all charges against the head of the BNP were dropped, and now this, funny how free speech only works one way isn't it?

This is a blatant attempt to smear Muslims, if you listen and watch the video cast above it explains hes rationale behind hes arguments. This man doesn't like usmmah bin laden, doesnt belive in violence in this country and promotes multiculturalism, and you call him an extremist! Channel 4 have done the British public a disservice by making this programme and and taking quotes out of context and its correct frame work. He says that punishments can only be given by imams of an islamic state, the uk is not an islamic state and neither will it be one. He explains that he does not believe in violence towards homosexuals, he believes its a grave sin which is what christians and Jews also believe. Abu usamah is not the extremist, the channel 4 producers are the extremists here as they had an agenda to create divisions within the communities in the uk.

This is a blatant attempt to smear Muslims, if you listen and watch the video cast above it explains hes rationale behind hes arguments. This man doesn't like usmmah bin laden, doesnt belive in violence in this country and promotes multiculturalism, and you call him an extremist! Channel 4 have done the British public a disservice by making this programme and and taking quotes out of context and its correct frame work. He says that punishments can only be given by imams of an islamic state, the uk is not an islamic state and neither will it be one. He explains that he does not believe in violence towards homosexuals, he believes its a grave sin which is what christians and Jews also believe. Abu usamah is not the extremist, the channel 4 producers are the extremists here as they had an agenda to create divisions within the communities in the uk.

WELL DONE JAMES FOR THIS EXCELLENT COMMENT. I ALSO WATCHED THE PROGRAM AND I HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU 100% EVERY SENTENCE HE SAID WAS MISQUOTED. I AM DEEPLY UPSET WITH CHANNEL 4 BEACUSE THEY USUALLY ARE VERY UNBIASED IN THERE VIEWS.

From what I saw last night the programme was badly edited, I truly beleive my 16 yr old brother could do a better job!!! But one thing know one can edit is the whole truth.

This programme is just trying to make Muslims divide and Non-Muslims hate Muslims.. Everybody should unite agianst this B/S, no matter what religion.
STAND UP FOR THE TRUTH

Some of you are missing the point about the Dispatches team, which is that their work is often the result of long and carefully-researched projects that do not normally make it onto terrestrial television. They also have a reputation for anti-establishment investigative journalism, which is what makes last night's view all the more shocking.

What I think would be most shocking to English viewers is the complete ignorance of English religious history which is diplayed by some of the more outrageous preachers. When you criticise secularism you criticise the Protestant society that made it. Perhaps those preaching hatred of the kuffar in Saudi-influenced mosques should be made to study seventeenth-century Puritanism as a form of punishment. They might learn something.

That said, I am surprised they only persuaded one Cambridge academic to act as a voice of moderation.

Lord Nazir Ahmed said on Islam channel news that some of the people have links to NEO CONSERVATIVEs and Jerusalem...

That moderate was also a Sufi, I have to agree with Tom an English man that knows how the Muslims work and their groups.

This moderate from Cambridge academic has from day one been, against all those who don’t agree with him, all those from Saudi, and anyone who speaks the truth which he does not agree with because his from Cambridge? He does not represent us moderate Muslims, he represents him self ? May Allah guide me and him to the straight Path.

Extremely shameful and disgusting. Fortunately/unfortunately I had stopped going to these lectures long ago. I have no desire to go to these Islamic circuses to entertainment myself with such hurtful, shameful and absurd jokes made by the clergy looking jokers shown in the dispatches. We have the Qur'an and hadith and books by established scholars and do not need the nonsense of these hate mongers.

By God the hatred this programme has generated against Muslims and Islam, its sin is upon the heads of these irresponsible/mischievous lots. Had I not seen the programme I would not have believed that such absurdities could be uttered inside a mosque.

The out of context excuse is utter nonsense. If these lots have any sense of responsibility and if they are really sincere to Islam and Muslims then admitting their the harm they have inflicted they MUST immediately resign from their positions or the mosques where they are employed MUST sack them immediately. As a matter of fact we the Muslims must demand the committees of these mosques that they get rid of these venomous creatures. I agree with Mr/Ms Damascus that the harm they have done to Muslims and Islam is indescribable.

As a Jew, I empathise with the isolation that Muslims must feel. Every documentary must feel like a slur.

We Jews have been vilified, lied about and hated for centuries.

The fact is that ordinary Muslims are just not like the extremists shown in Dispatches.

The fear is that ordinary people will assume they are.

However natural a ghetto mentality must feel when you are under attack, it will not change the situation.

It's painful to be introspective when you feel hated and threatened, but the only answer is for ordinary Muslims to go on the offensive. To take the initiative and kick out the extremists. To speak out against them. To take to the streets and protest against them. To brand idiots like this imam "a non-believer".

People need to see a divide, instead of blurred lines.

The naivety or gullibility of some people never fails to amaze me. Even when a murderer is presented with all the evidence against them, the eye witnesses, the physical evidence, the video evidence, the DNA, the victim's dying statement they still continue to deny their involvement or guilt.

Out of the woodwork crawl the supporters. “He was misquoted”,” he was misguided”, “he had a terrible childhood”, “he deserves another chance”, “the evidence was fabricated”, “he’s a loving, caring, human being”. All the while closing their minds to what the murderer actually did, the murderer’s lack of remorse and the disingenuous excuses for why he did it.

There is absolutely no excuse for a person in authority to make unequivocal statements about under age sex, vilification of women, homosexuality and the rest. Full stop. No excuse. You cannot say he was quoted out of context – he said it and not only once. It is not a matter of cut ‘n paste, the words he used were not cut ‘n pasted together, he actually said the complete phrase or sentence.

Islam is now maturing and becoming more fragmented. There is the true Muslim who believes in the words of Allah (may peace be upon him) like Muhammed Ali the boxer, then there is the interpretation of Islam like Abu Usamah who has his own agenda and then the interpretation of someone like Bali bomber Imam Samudra.

I want to live, love and work with more Muslims like Muhammed Ali, to learn their dignity, beliefs and truths and send people like Abu Asamah to somewhere they can live their hate filled lives with others with their way of thinking.

This is free speech.
The BNP get rewarded for propogating hate against muslims. British subjects of Israeli parentage are allowed to go to Israel and fight in the IDF. Melanie philips degrades and attacks Islam and muslims on her website as well as being allowed to publish her book 'Londonistan'.

For Muslims there is no free speech, or freedom of expression. Shame on the sell outs in the neocon Sufi Muslim Council, also shame on the sell out who filmed the whole saga.

Your approach and the approach of those you follow is not new. Only few years after the death of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) a group called Khwarijz was born. The Khwarijiz did not hesitate in declaring the great companions as Kafirs and this is what the preachers like the ones shown in Dispatches are doing. They are the , the modern day Khwarijiz. In an ideal Islamic state they and their followers will be treated like the Khawarijz were dealt with.

Where does Qur'an say that an individual has a right to take laws in his/her hands? But one of the so called preachers went to the extent of prescribing that a Muslim dentist should discriminate against homosexuals by inserting thick needle in his mount (sic).

Without taking into consideration the impact of climate and culture on the physical development in that area and making the marriage of Aisha (may Allah be please with her) with the Prophet (peace be upon him) a precedent and encouraging marriages between old man and a young woman people like you so conveniently forget that except Aisha (RA)all of the Ummahat-ul-Muslimeen were widows and Khadija (RA) was 15 years elder to the Prophet. How many of you and ilks like you would be willing to marry widows and with ladies elder to you? If your wife asked for a divorce a male chauvinist like you will probably murder her and accuse her of immorality but the Prophet (PBUH) was asked by a lady who said to him that she wanted to divorce from her husband as she did not like her, he immediately called her husband and asked him to divorce her. May the Almighty bless us all to learn the true Islam brought by our beloved Prophet (PBUH) and not the one preached by you that does not look any different fascism.

With preachers like the ones shown in Dispatches Islam and Muslims do not need enemies.

As a non-muslim and an agnostic I agree with Shazy who says "Do unto others as you wish done to yourself". The imams in this programme were more racist than Nick Griffin of the BNP but it seems won't be prosecuted for the filth they uttered. Some commentators say that Dispatches is demonising Muslims - this is rubbish - the nutters featured in the programme managed to do that all on their own.
Until normal Muslims take a stand against people like these and some of the bloggers above then the rest of us will definately become more uncomfortable with Islam. I mean, the Pope is against homosexuality but he doesn't advocate murdering them like the dimwits on this programme.

Thank you AK for making your agenda clear. I wonder if any allegedly moderate Muslims reading this will take the opportunity to challenge your views?

AK - the Koran exists, but the reason why there are so many different sects and scisms in Islam is because different people interpret Islam differently.

You want Islam to rule Christians and Jews and put other religions to death. That is your interpretation of Islam. It is an foul, ugly, fascist interpretation of Islam and has no place in modern society.

Thankfully, the majority of Muslims do not adhere to this ugliness, but sadly you drag them down into the gutter with you.

The net result is that 1) TV channels make programmes about the ugly side 2) ordinary Brits see the ugly side and can't distinguish between the fringe and the mainstream which leads to 3) Muslim advocacy groups attacking the programme for telling the truth rather than addressing the problem and 4) more people joining scum like the BNP

Solve the problem of Islamic supremacism, fascism and violence and Muslims will be accepted as every other religion is. Ignore it and reap the awful harvest.

I'd like to thank the moderator at MPACUK for being broadminded and open enough to allow many different viewpoints onto this area of the site.

To watch a program and believe "everything" is difficult, in most cases, the problem lies in that the cameras were hidden and the people who were speaking have all been caught red handed.

There is "NO" defence for the the speakers, nor the broadcasts or documentation Dispatches provided. It was a program that most of us (average UK citizens) and I personally find the preachings shown as a disgrace to your religion...to educate the youth is one thing, to educate them into violence is another....prod your wife with a clenched fist!! In this country that is a criminal offence, always remember where you live, there will be no uprising here..to sit with the Prime Minister after the London atrocities and then to support the "guest Speakers" How often do these guests speak?....For people who actually defended Muslims, including myself, it is time now to stop and realise the true story....thank-you to Dispatches, hidden cameras have exposed underlying hatred and extreme beliefs in the Muslim community, no amount of replies or defences can delete the facts.

ken hidden cameras have proved nothing because those people gave lectures that were open to people and they had cameras there recording the events.

what you can say about dispatches is they listened to people talking about subjects for lenghty times giving their opinions,dispatches did not show us the full discourse but rather did a propaganda excercise.

There are people who call themselves christians but call for paedophiles not to be prosecuted if the children were willing participants, so should we consider them to be representatives of christianity,currently the age for this kind of behaviour has been endorsed in holland were the age has been lowered to 12.

No community is perfect but to constantly attack one community shows a concerted campaign of demonisation and degradation, as jesus said he who has committed no sin should through the first stone, i think this applies perfectly in this instance.

Salaam. This programme from the outset was designed to create further demonisation of the muslim community, to create division amongst its people and finally to create fear, hatred and anger amongst the non muslim community. The governments agenda is clearly to radicalise its own population with lies, deception and propaganda, in order that it can continue to pursue its colonialist agenda, diverting attention from the atrocities that it has carried out, trying to deceive its population of the true extremists and terrorists, ie themselves. Has anyone ever asked why are people angry, particularly muslims? The governement to this day still denies any link to its foreign policy. Ask yourself if tomorrow England was invaded by a foreign army, killing thousands of its civilians, raping its resources, how would the english population living around the world feel about this? Would they not get angry? Would they not express hatred? And lets be clear the hatred is towards the government, but this of course is spinned in such a way that it is shown to be towards the people of the country.

Numerous authors made comments as above
particularly what I found offensive was E Davies remarks, its individuals like this who sit in their council, state sponging, flats with 20 kids from different males - smoking cheap brand cigarettes and drinking cider from their 2 litre bottles and make such offensive statements most likely on a stolen Laptop, that make Abu Usmaah and other scholars tell time and time again to the Muslims and others - wake up and see what this country is becoming and look to your deen.
Now faced with a population that is either like ED or a population that still lives in the good ole crusades or the British Empire think tanks - what do they expect Muslims to do, BECOME one of them ...living zombies.

i didn't see the program but as a muslim i do not condone such behaviuor. however i also have little faith in the british media. so unless i have heard the talk myself and incontext he might have been right. but it all depends on how and why he said it. but generallising all is not right.

The Sufi Muslim Council are a filthy govenment organisation who have totally sold out. As for the Wahabis they are known to be literalist but atleast their sincere

I think the whole debate is going the wrong way, it should be the people who are running muslims down at every chance on trial here.

the question that arises is why are the british forcing their beliefs by gun point on the people of iraq and afghanistan, since those people have rejected the beliefs of the british governemnt why are they being massacred and tortured to death.

what are the british people doing to stop extremist christians like blair and others who are using force to make people do what they say.

By voting blair back into power are the british people not proving that they are the supporters of extremists and mass murderers,if you check british imperial and recent history they invade and occupy foreign nations and rob their resources, when the people of those nations fight to free themselves they are massacred and tortured and called terorists.

so i feel the question should be why is it always extremist christians who force their beleifs on others by the gun, if you muslims can be labelled because of individuals than i am sure since blair was voted into power by the british people, then they can be labelled as such easily.

Muslims should really think about their future in the west. It's getting bad to worse by day, it's not going to get better. Islamophobia is on the rise, we could always blame others but we have to accept our own faults as well, whatever happends is for the good and Allah will protect His religion and purify it from the excesses of the ignorants and the false claims of the enemies. The future is for Islam, and we Muslims have to work for it by learning and practising our religion whole heartedly with Ikhlas. And we can't do it in the west living under a people who hate us. Our situation is different from that of our pious predecessors, we have Islamic countries we could migrate to. It is better and more rewardable to suffer under corrupt Muslim rulers than to live in the lands of the disbelievers even if they treat us nice, because we will never please them nor will they ever be pleased with us.

We Muslims seriously should consider the future of our children, because things are getting tightened down. As for dawah than we certainly don't need thousands of us living here. Allah will guide those He chooses to guide, and whomever Allah guides none can misguide and whomever Allah leaves astray none can guide.

Muwahhid,

What an excellent suggestion.

I would be more than willing to help fund your (and as many of your fellow muslims) transfer back to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh or whereever your heart desires.

Hey, we could even set up a lottery to ship you guy back to the stone ages, if thats what it takes !

As long as we live in a democratic country which claims to have freedom of speach, then we shall use that freedom of speach which we are so lectured upon when muslims are insulted demonised and humilated.

as the saying goes if you cannot take it do not give it, the only ones going to the stone age will be the ones with no oil or gas.

Yo Rob, would you like some financial assistance to get back to your Islamic paradise ? You know, like Saudia Arabia, which as you well kwow, is a leading believer in the concept of freedom of speech ?

Just say the word, we will be more than willing to help you get on your way.

Having read some Islamic books on fiqh, history of the Caliphate, etc. I wasn't surprised by what these preachers said - it seemed to be pretty standard orthodox Islam. Mild compared to some bits, even.

What I found most interesting though was not the preachers, but the audiences. These were said to be some of the largest mosques in Britain, and dozens, possibly hundreds of people heard them speak. Did nobody ever think to report them? Did nobody ever think to tell the mosque committee, or mpacuk, or the moderate Muslim community at large, that this was going on? Did they somehow vet these meetings so only radical fanatics were invited?

That some Muslims are sufficiently orthodox and knowledgable to actually believe this stuff is no surprise. That dozens, possibly hundreds, of randomly selected Muslims in Britain are prepared to go along with this happening in their mosques...

I'm sure there's so much more to tell. And nothing would combat Islamophobia, and defend Islam better than for everyone to see how moderate Muslims won't stand to see their religion perverted and their places of worship desecrated by this intolerant ideology. So all of you who strive for the peaceful Islam to be uppermost over the violent one, tell us of your struggle. Please.

I rather my child was left in the company of these preachers than a catholic priest!! Say no more!! SUBJECT CLOSED!!!

It is interesting - and perhaps somewhat revealing - to see Sufism being denounced so comprehensively on this messageboard.

The idea that Jihad will lead to the establishment of an Islamic state in England is fanciful. You have about as much chance of establishing Muslim supremacy in England as the Nationalists in Northern Ireland have of imposing the Mass and Papal Supremacy on the Protestants. Forget it and move on - it simply ain't gonna happen!

It works both ways ....

If you dont like the way the Middle Eastern countries are running with Islamic LAW - then stopping invading these countries and spreading your Western Democracy!

It's depressing reading some of the comments, The fact that a well over 650, 000 people have been murdered in Iraq and God knows how many in Afghanistan and now we have Somalia. They went on to insulting the Muslims by hanging Saddam on the day we are celebrating EID.

We have cowed Muslims commenting on this board attacking fellow Muslims who have no blood on their hands. These preachers have said noting that demand our attention. Just listen to some Christian Zionist in America and Rabbis in Israel. I tell you they will out do any Muslim Preacher on extreme views.

The virile comments made by non Muslims are to be ignored as they are the ones who will always support murder and subjugation of our community. They rant and rave the loudest in times of war on a country that is not there own. I stand by these preachers wholeheartedly; in other times I probably would show no support. The biggest crimes are happening front of your eyes and all some Muslims can do is be cowed down; that's truly depressing.

An excellent response by Imam Aboo Usamah.

Their envy of Islaam is nothing new. The polytheists at the time of the Prophet lied calling him (peace be upon him) a magician and other lies.

This guy is a scumbag. The muslim community need to get rid of him (& others like him) quickly or us 'kuffar' will do it for you.

Well done, Abu Usamah! May Allah spread the truth throughout the world!

I suggest every Muslim look at the response by Sheik Yasir Qadhi: http://youtube.com/watch?v=jwx7S8ugFcs&eurl=

Of course, non-Muslims may not like it, especially if they have little understanding for Islam. May Allah set the affairs of the Muslims straight.

Assalamu Alaykum,

1. standing by your fellow muslim does mean, that you have to tell him (at least), when he's wrong. Preaching unity when you've done wrong and transgressed is really not very original. I would even compare that to the neocon-doctrine, that the country will stand by the president in a time of crises and not hold him accountable for human rights abuses or unjustified wars. Of course none of the preachers actually started a war, but the comparison stands. (@shan)

2. The preacher's messages can't be in any way justified or made harmless by any unjustified war or any oppressive country/regime. The muslim should stand with the truth, even if it is against oneself (@Cowed Muslim).

3. free-speech: there are two issues here: Saying something that is clearly your personal opinion is one thing and should in general be covered by the free-speech. Driving people to do things that are harmful isn't free-speech or else we wouldn't be able to sue BNP or other right-wing extremists. Justifying one selves hate-mongering with that of others (known hate-mongers) is unacceptable!! Or does the imam like to be compared to the BNP?? Another point would be the status of an imam: If the person thinks, that some people are filthy or he wants to compare them to pigs, then he might do that on the street (on his time) and preferably to their faces, so they have the chance to prove that they're not. But saying that in the capacity of an imam (and especially in the Friday sermon) is a disgrace to the mosque he's sitting in and to the intellect of the people in front of him.

4. The response of Abu Usamah presents lame excuses. I'm sorry to say, that the man is making things even worse. Not only that many of his comments even in the response aren't justified, but moreover there are clearly visible lies, such as the thing with liking the kuffar ("No one loves the kuffar" ).

5. I would like to thank Farzana, who pointed other main points out.

6. That the people behind the program have an agenda, doesn't mean they made the quotes up. So i think, as muslims we should point out where the program is discriminatory, but at the same time try to see the errors, that those mosques and/or imams did and correct them.

Salam.

An excellent and intelligent response by Aby Usamah. Anyone with even basic knowledge of Islam can see that Dispatches reported out of context. Abu Usamah gives detailed explanations and even backs them up with evidence from the Quran and Sunnah. It is clear that the whole thing is in fact a non story blown out of proportion. Those who hate Islam will always hate Islam.

Britain is a liberal country with a well established tradition of free speech, no matter how odious the speech.

Unforunately it also has a press with a well established practice of focussing almost exclusively on rent-a-loons with their vitrolic ravings; Nick Griffen, Abu Hamza et al.

Which is why the press in Britain generally fails to accurately convey the bigger picture and instead serves up a load of horse manure.

Well now. We have some Muslims complaining that these preachers are not representative and the kuffar should not tar them all with the same brush, and others saying that there's nothing wrong with what the preachers said, and it's all being misinterpreted.

If this is Islam and there's nothing wrong with it, then this is what Muslims should be telling the British non-Muslims. There should be none of this "we oppose the tiny minority of extremists" if it isn't true; if they're not extremists and they're not opposed. MPACUK's disclaimer above, that Abu Usamah is not representing their views, should not be made if it isn't true. If they're not your views, why not? They are, after all, backed up by Qur'aan, Sunnah, and Haddith, as Abu Usamah demonstrated. Details, please.

If Islam is peaceful then prove it by correcting or driving out the extremists threatening the safety of your religion - promote virtue and prevent vice. If Islam is Jihaad against the recalcitrant infidel to make Islam dominant, then say so publicly, and let Allah guide those he will to your cause. If people ask you about Islam then you must speak to them truthfully of it, or how can they hear and be persuaded? By raising all this confusion, are you not denying them their birthright?

THE BIG GOVERNMENT PLAN FOR MUSLIM:


'DIVIDE AND THEN RULE THEM'

Having read all the posts I am a little surprised by the responses especially from the Muslims. As reasonable and rationbal people we are supposed to be convinced by proof and evidence.

It is clear from what I have read about Christianity that that every religion believes that it will be uppermost in every land just as Islam said this , It is clear that Christians and Muslims agree about homosexuals from what is in their book.

Jihad in Islam has three meanings and only one was highlighted and every lecture was taped.

Would this evidence be admissible in a court? Absolutely not as no one was given the right to reply and only part of the evidence was shown. Do we just put someone in prison because we found them with a bloodied knife with seeing whether it was in self defence? No so why do we believe a programme which cut up so many speeches so much so that you can see that people are facing in different direction when the programme was cut.

The Muslims should be just as if people studied their religion they would find that there is proof and evidence for almost everything tat was said whether we agree or not we cant condemn someone who brings evidence from the Quran and the sunah without first looking at it.

Even if this program has been heavily edited all of those comments WERE made and ARE being preached in the UK. I think it is a disgrace. I am disgusted by the uprising of this extremism in the UK. Soon we will have more riots like in Bradford. long live democracy, women and gay rights and may the west take over the world so that people don't have to suffer sharia law.

Insidious. How much more two faced can this get. My issue with people like these guys is they say one thing in public and say something completely different in private. Have some guts and say what you really believe.You say Dispatches uses scary music, these views are TERRIFYING with or without the music.It's time people wake up to themselves.

Speaking as a practising Christian I have noticed that, the media in general, and channel 4 and the BBC in particular, never cease to misuse their 'reporting' against all things Christian as part of their atheist agenda.
The fact that this is also the case for islam is depressing but should come as no surprise.