After yesterdays documentary i have lost all respect for MPAC. There is a way to approach these issues and the way you did this was a complete injustice to the muslim way, standing outside the respected place of mosque with a camera and petition was not the right way to approach this. you could have contacted the imam or comittee members and discussed this issue without the fuss and destroying the respect of the muslim community. the man clearly defined that there wasnt facilities for women to pray, but following this an action plan could be agreed upon with the committee members rather than your aggressive approach.
Shak and Saf

Assalamu Alaikum

I would advise you to read the Quraan and Hadith, regarding the issue of women praying in masjids and women praying at home.

I would also advise you to consult Ulama and read books written by some of the great Ulama of the past regarding this issue.

I am deeply concerned for your akiraah and of those whom you represent. If you continue to act as you are at the moment and not adhere to the Quraan and the Sunnah, you will not be successful in the life hereafter.

JazakAllah for listening to my concerns for your welfare. In the meantime I will pray for your forgiveness and for Allah SWT to guide you and your companions on the right path. Ameen

Salaam. Just to say that I thought the whole idea of Muslim women praying in the mosque was a good one but it seemed as if it was not portrayed in the best way. There were far too many arguments and much banter although I do not wish to blame either side, and Allahu-alam. May Allah forgive me for my faults and may He unite the Muslims, ameen. After all, Islam's literal meaning is 'peace'.Wassalaam.

The documentary could have at least shown that the majority of mosques do accomodate women and it was only a small handful that didn't!

salam..
sad to see mpac use sisters to potray their message..
tfor sisters to go outside masjids during jummah in front of all those men.. shouting etc.. causing fitna.. what was the use.. just showed muslims in a bad light..

dont these sisters mehrams say anything.. no shame no repect no dignity..
shame on you

MPAC - whilst the issues and grievances you had were possibly valid - I honestly do not think you approached them in the correct manner.
None of the mosques they confronted actually 'banned' women per se - they just did not have provisions to accomodate them at the precise time you trumped up.
In a single swoop they have undone the good work loads of mosques are doing in respect of integarting women (and unsurpringly none of this got a worthy mention) - I felt that the programme was biased and completely unrepresentative(save for the views of MPAC).
Admittedly we do have issues with mosques - such as more female involvement, more women on the committees, regulation etc.. but this program did not really uncover or address these in a serious or mature manner.

In addition - other serious and topical issues were blended in and presented and were given a distorted and trivial treatment - such as the recent issues re: hijab and nikhab and domestic violence.

We even had one sister who removed her hijab - and suggested that she now felt more confident as a muslim - I have absolutely nothing against her personally - but if these are the views of the muslims - then Jack Straw should be an Imam !

Sadly the programme ended by suggesting that an exciting new dawn for muslims in the uk was approaching - i fail to see how.

I fully support the integration of sisters into all aspects of society - but I feel the political aims of MPAC were furthered at the expense of the sisters by your immature expedition.

looks like the unlc toms of defend the drunken mosque thugs are out and complaining on the site - shut up you muppets - long live mpac!

I saw the documentary and am shocked that brothers on here are acting like the goons on the film. I wonder if any of thebrothers have called the mosques n question to have a go at them? Hypocrtites!

Brill doc - shame the pakis and guji women oppressors are all complaining on here. Havent they got mothers and sisters?

Well done MPAC - you make the muslims proud! I support you.

Looks like MPAC have hit the one bug bear that the muslim men cant handle - women having some power.

Rock on mpac and dont let these rats get you gusy down! I salute the bravest women i have ever seen on TV

Very disappointed with the Programme. There is no doubt that this issue needs to be discussed and addressed but to bring the debate onto national TV (at this time in particular) was an error. In an environment where ‘perceptions’ are critical it portrayed the community as backward and in a wholly negative way. Please note I am not in any way suggesting that women should not be permitted to enter or pray in mosques but leaving this issue aside what audience were the filmmakers trying to target? The majority audience would probably be white, have a media driven negative perception of Islam and would ultimately come to the conclusion that the religion is intolerant towards women, which of course it is not.

Maybe we could have tried a different positive approach – giving time and platform to those mosques which had an open door policy to women (Regent’s Park in London (there must be others?)) with an angle which was positive with respect to women. Then maybe devoting say 10% of programme content to address the fact that some mosques do not permit entry and that there is a movement dedicated to changing this.

Lets think before we produce programmes like this and lets try to avoid falling into the trap which the media sets us – i.e. to continue the negative portrayal of what is a peaceful and accommodating faith. I wonder what the interest would have been from Channel 4 had we pursued the positive angle above and avoided open conflict?

The wording of your article and your aggressive and confrontational behaviour on the program confirmed that it was you who were the muslims who looked bad.
If you were behaving in an islamic manner then Im sure you would use alittle hikmah and not band around terms such as zoo animals and thugs when referring to the mosque leaders. The comment is not specific but tarnishes all the mosques.
It was MPAC I was ashamed of last night. I agree with the prinicipal of the right of women to access the mosque as there are benefits but it is also mustahab that it is more beneficial for a woman to read at home. Although it is also true that the prophet SAW said to not obstruct women. But then why not do the thing which is clearly stated as more beneficial?
There are many circles and social networks for women to gain a stronger social circle and islamic knowledge which came across as the strongest argument.
Although the argument has merits , the manner was intentionally confrontational, aggressive and provocative. A clear and desparate attempt to jump on the bandwagon and create some PR to expand an organisation which claims to fight for muslim rights but in fact probably does more harm but unfortunately is too arrogant to realise the fact. This being confirmed by the surprise expressed in the article in regards to receiving complaints from women!
Arrogant, self righteous, and unable to see how these are the very facets which are causing the reactions they receive. But on the contrary this reaction is used as a catalyst in deluding themselves that what they are doing is legitimate as opposed to confronting the real problem of the attitude and manners of working.
Hardly an example of the islamic framework of progressing and resolving issues.
The impression given was that the MPAC individuals feel that they are able enough to interpret their understanding of islam which infact is a very dangerous matter and leads to problems they create. This is illustrated by the hadith in which the prophet SAW addresses the issue of interpretation stating that even if an individual interprets the Quran correctly, he or she is in manifest error by not using the tafser which has been provided.

These are the issues which you should be addressing, but if you look at the wording of your emails they refer to "infiltrating" organisations, making MPAC come across as some advanced, elite organisation and referring to the rest of us idly sitting around downing nothing. Once again, self promoting, boastful and franking having a very over inflated opinion of yourselves.
Another example being the claim of over 60,000 on the emailing list, something I found most amusing as I have asked many times to be taken off the list but no action has been taken. I wonder how many more are in the same position just so that you can boost your numbers and make yourselves feel more important.

So I ask again, please remove me from your mailing list.

Unfortunately I fear none of these matters will be addressed by your organisation but will be dismissed in your blind and arrogant crusade of what you think the issues should be as opposed to what they really are.
If you really represent the muslims and what to make a positive difference then why not listen to these and majority of other comments condemning your actions. Look at deenport.com for a multitude of similar comments.

Im ashamed and disgusted by the disrespectful behaviour and provocative actions displayed by MPAC, and saddened by the blind arrogance displayed.

Allah knows best

Regards

salaam,
after watching y'day's dispatches i feel that the approach by MPAC was horrific in that it gave women in islam and muslims as a whole an image of confusion and misconception. its a shame ignorant minded muslims seem to get all the television coverage they need in this society.
Riza.

MPAC are liberating Muslim women in the same way that Jack Straw and the rest of the New Labour lot think they are liberating Muslim women by stirring up a 'debate' about Muslim women's clothes.

This is the same way that Salman Rushdie and Ayaan Hirsi Ali and all the others are liberating Muslim women by their aggressive and destructive comments.

Your campaign as shown on TV was full of misinformation, aggressive, divisive and was designed only to further your aims at the expense of others. You couldn't even conduct yourselves in front of the Lancashire Council of Mosques who invited you to discuss the issue, despite the persistent TV cameras. Despite their generous conduct, you couldn't even discuss the issue like normal rational people but instead, flew off the handle and started to argue with the same Muslim women who you say you are here to 'liberate'.

This is disgraceful behaviour. You are not the great liberators but you are a showcase example of what happens when people can't conduct themselves with even basic common manners, never mind Islamic manners.

I compare MPAC's conduct with the excellent conduct of those Muslim women actually living in the areas and attending masjids in the same areas where MPAC said there were no facilities for women.

Dont buckle - I can see Muslim men are crying like babies because the might have to give up some of their dads power. But as a Muslim sister i salute you!

I am only ashamed that I myself have not joined you through fear of my family.

Asalaam o alaikum,

I watched the programme last night and was very surprised and at the same time dismayed with what I observed.
MPAC must be commended for raising the issue of a womans role in the society and in having a place to pray in a masjid.I have just returned from saudi arabia after 4 years and in all the masaajid there was a facility for the women at all times for the 5 daily prayers, juma etc.
However, it seems the sisters in the programme were not just petitioning for this right but seemed to have another aim.
This is due to MPAC in general not posessing the relevant and adequate grounding in islamic knowledge according to the Quran and Sunnah. I am also assuming ( I could be wrong) that they did not consult a person of knowledge or a scholar in terms of the right way to appoach this issue.
The way in which the people of blackburn reacted was totally out of order, but then again was this the most wise thing to do? And the behaviour of some of the sisters wasnt exactly modest either.
We really need to go back and look at the famous and influential women in islam who were successful such as khadija and Aisha RA. Aisha RA was a one of the first scholars of our deen and even knew more than some of the other sahaba when it came to quran, hadith and fiqh.
lets not try and get emotional and revert to the western feminist tactics of girl power because at the end of the day thats what the programme portrayed

The defenders of the zoo animals are out pretending to defend the ummah. If they cared so much why havent they called the mosque - maybe its because the mosque would beat them up, so they com on the mpac site ...its easier o hold mpac accountable. hmmmm

While your aims might be noble, your method is simply wrong. There's an old saying: Don't wash your dirty linen in public. You'd do well to heed to this advice. If this is the method MPAC are going to take then I can't support you, even if the Mosque committees are wrong.

You screwed up badly, and you should have the humbleness to admit it.

As Salaamu'alikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Baraktuhu

Dear Brothers/Sisters

Until a Mufti (a SCHOLAR who has the permission, right AND duty to derive laws/rulings in the LIGHT OF QURAAN AND HADITH) posts a ruling on here, I urge ALL others (me included) to NOT post Quraanic/Hadith verses - as the actual meaning(s) are not always what is contained within the words.

(Ask yourself why not many Mufti's or any Mufti's for that matter have posted anything on here?)

Also please do NOT post egotistic AND personal perspectives/opinions of what Quraanic/Hadith verses mean; as these are from Shaytaan and/or from ones of Nafs (Nafs is like ones Ego)Such comments can lead to Kufr and, GOING OUT OF THE FOLD OF ISLAM!!(May ALLAH protect us ALL from this)

That which is between the lips, jaws and the teeth (i.e the tongue) can lead to Salavation or Destruction.

WORDS ARE ACTIONS IN ISLAM. THESE POSTINGS ARE EQUIVALENT TO SPEECH.

So please be careful!!

May Allah forgive my shortcomings in this post and may He give me the Tawfeeq to change my life for His Pleasure and also Forgive and Rightly Guide ALL the Muslims in the world.

Aameen

Wal Hamdulillahi Rabbil 'Aalameen

As Salaamu'alikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Baraktuhu

MPAC- I think this time, you got used. It hurts me to say it, as I love the work you do- but not on this issue. Muslim women and men and mosques- all the cores of our Ummah have been vilified and desecrated by the way you have handled this issue. and best of it, its on tape broadcast to the nation.

Your intentions may have been correct- however your conduct was appalling.

Peace

Assalaamu alaikum

Great work MPAC. Keep it coming. Don't let these barking dogs silent. Let them bark.

Dogs will always bark but THE CARAVAN MOVES ON!!!

Good work and it is about time the Ummah woke up from the treachery they have done to their sisters in Islam. They''ve been so passive for so long, they can only but argue with you.

Keep going. And MashAllah, great work.

Salaams

Sisters of MPAC,

Have you actually tried to establish Sunni institution in England? E.g Central Mosque in Birmingham, Marakzi Masjid in Mount Pleasant West Yorkshire?

If you are so adamant wouldn't the logical method be to compile a document with regards regards to your question(s), stress the importance of it and make sure it is addressed and explained. This can be done from ones home/office - not calling a TV crew and having it broadcast on National TV into the homes of those who want to find ANOTHER reason to hate Islam.

Because clearly projecting your views on the Internet is very easy for you, but to say it to the 'Ulama is very difficult. Hmmm???

You are aware of what the comittee members are like and who probably don't know enough Islamic knowledge to address the issue correctly and WILL revert to their cultural methods from the upbringing.

So please a simple letter in a simple envelope of telephone is all that WAS and still IS required. Make use of it.

"MPACUK is the UK's Leading Muslim civil liberties group, empowering Muslims to focus on non-violent Jihad and political activism."

It seems those who comment on this thread have not read the article. As it clearly states it was not mpac who made the muslims looks bad, it was the mosque mob. why blame mpac for doing nothing more then giving out a leaflet.

I do not understand either why some muslims are blaming mpac for what is obviously a mosque problem? I think the must all be secret women haters or apologists for thuggery? Why else blame the victim...hmmmm

MPAC please don’t provoke sisters to display themselves on national TV in incomplete Hijab, the hair coming out of all directions, the trousers the short sleeves, the well done eye liner, the few layers of foundation. These are the representatives for ‘Muslim women’? Please if the sisters felt the urge to intimidate imams and‘to make a difference’ for the sake of Allah swt cover your faces when in a jamat of hundreds of men? This little act did nothing but dragged unnecessary attention to the silly little mentality of some Muslims, be grateful its not obligatory on you to make a journey to the mosque in the early hours of the morning.
And a comment was made that the justification for not allowing women to pray in a mosque under the authority of Umar (r.a) is not good enough as apparently ‘we don’t follow Umar, we follow the prophet’ let me correct you sister, we follow the prophet and we follow the companions and Islamic ruling isn’t complete without the consensus of the noble companions.
Tell me where were these sisters demonstrating against the attack of jack straw? MPAC seems to have a new agenda, give rise to Muslim feminism. perhaps the other prioritised policy of mpac is to humilate the muslims in order to make change, and show the kuffar our dirty laundry!

Yet again another documentary on Muslims and nothing positive has come out of it. ‘ISLAM IS PERFECT BUT MUSLIMS ARE NOT’ SubhanAllah such wise words!

i wonder are these women still standing outside those mosques, or are they only there for when the tv crews and cameras are present?

mpac needs to be intelligent and mature in these issues the problem is that it is so very often loud mouthed and puerile. and its a shame.

why be used , why be owned as you are by those vested interests that seek to make islam into their image, as they have done to christianity.

islam is clear. it does not need you to create a new islam.

Yesterday I saw mpac for what they trully are: a bunch of hot heads that shout and jump up and down like raving loonies.

Why do some women think that in order to be heard they have to behave like men. Is this equality?Some women think that equality means you have to behave like margaret thatcher and have no feminine qualities and behave like a typical man dressed up as a woman.

These sisters were used by the bros in mpac it was painful to see them being manipulated in this way.

The issue of women in the masjid was and is a valid one.However your approach was completely wrong.

You hijacked a geniune concern and made a mockery of it

The first masjid in east London didnt have enough room to accomodate the bros never mind the sisters. The bros were praying there jumma salat out on the pavement. Yet CATHERINE HUSSEIN made a specticle of this on camera,does she not know that we women do not have to pray jumma salah.

Why did mpac have to go to the masjids with a camera in tow. Are you really that thirsty for publicity?

Why air your dirty laundry in public!

You portrayed the majority of the muslim community as backward who repress their women and deny them an education.

Why couldn't you approach the masajid and give them advice on how to get women into the masjid.

Some mosques in your programme it seemed were starting to make provisions for sisters. The masjid in Blackburn did offer a seperate buiding next to the masjid for the sisters. Yes it wasn't ideal but its a start.

Looks like the "we are really holy honest" brigade are out. Never lifted a finger to change the mosques thanks to their "too busy being holy" attitude, now they want to come on here and tell us all how great they are and how un-holy mpac is compared to their great standards.

Im not impressed by these people, ever since i was young ive heard these people talk a good talk, you can even read it in the above comments "i agree with mpac's principle but..."

Agreeing is NOT doing, now as an adult i can see that. There is some groups "doing" and most "talking" about those who are "doing". I'd rather support the "doers", then join the loud mouths talking about how bad the doers are.

Keep DOING thats all i can say. And let these cultural holy types keep talking. They wont stop talking, we however can stop paying attention.

It was bound to get MPAC into hot water with the Muslims - thats why I support you. Other groups would have just left the problem alone, MPAC doesn't think that way it seems. Thats called principles. That deserves my support.

In the Name of Allah, the All-Merciful, the Compassionate

There is no power nor strength except by Allah and may Allah bless our master Muhammad and his family and Companions and grant them peace abundantly.

In reply to the MPAC sister in the C4 television programme yesterday, who when remarking about Umar's (may Allah be well pleased with him) 'ban' on women attending the mosque, stated that we should follow the Prophet instead, I invite the sister to be reminded of the command of the Prophet (s) himself.

He said: “Hold fast my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the righteous guided Caliphs, seize onto it with your molars.” [Sunan al-Tirmidhî]

The sunnah of the righteous Caliphs guide us in a number of different areas - the number of units in the tarawih prayer, the compilation of the Qur'an itself and many, many other topics.

That said, we should also follow the guidance of trained scholars who interpet the sunnah of the Prophet and the Companions, for our times. They have consistently recognised that while it is preferable that women pray at home, there is no ban on women attending the mosque either. “Do not prevent women from attending the mosque, even though their houses are better for them.” [Abu Dawud]

I must agree with the sentiment of many of those who have written before me, who would like to see the mosques open their doors to women, and allow them to join committees and so forth. However, you have *completely* gone about this in the wrong way.

Muslims are supposed to be kind and gentle in their treatment of each other, and in the absence of some kind of mutual understanding or agreement, you *should* be willing to work through intermediaries.

If 'speaking to elders' wives' acheives the end of persuading certain mosque committee members to slowly grow more accepting of the place of women in mosques, and giving women a voice in general, then why should you not? Yes, sister in the sunglasses, the Prophet (s) recommended arbitration, going through family members in disputes, and treating fellow Muslims with gentleness.

With the exception of those two brothers who you sent to Balfour Road mosque to speak on your behalf, it seemed you shouted at people or rolled your eyes at them, more than attempting to speak with serenity and the love that should exist between Muslims. Half the time, there was shouting going on.

It is not enough to say that you were badly treated by people. The Beloved Prophet (s) was stoned by the people of Taif, and still had patience and mercy for them in his immense heart. These people you are talking to are certainly not the people of Taif and they are not pelting you with rocks. They are Muslims, and thus it falls on you, to heed his example of kindness even more closely.

I hope you will take note of the wider Muslim community's support for the concept of a women's participation in the mosque and in wider society, but the lack of support for the woeful methods you have chosen to employ.

Ma'salama,
Saladin

everyone is moaning about mpacs conduct no one has mentioned the man who came out of a mosque and said f*** off to mpac! It was Anjum Anwar who shouted at mpac first in that meeting and defended the people that attacked them. The fact is mpac were vindicated women do want access to mosques indeed as the women at the refuge said they need it and they deserve to be part of the power structure when they work hard...well done mpac everything you have said was proved right! those who simply drone about conduct are sidelining the issue they should go and make friends with the wives of committee members and try and change things!

Assalam Aalikum MPAC

I was so disgusted by the programme last night that i fear I may have back boted against you.

Please forgive me.

It's not what MPAC wanted to acheive but the way they've tried to achieve it. I mean I no longer look at MPAC as being some kind of Islamic standard as most of the Islamic ettiquettes don't exist with them. MPAC should realise that they don't actually represent most of the Muslims they are Jokers like others! I mean MPAC want Muslims to participate in Shaytaans Religion of Democracy, what's it going to be next free mixing?

To aafreen:

As-salamu alaykum.

You say: "It was Anjum Anwar who shouted at mpac first in that meeting and defended the people that attacked them."

To involve ourselves in a game of 'he said it first' is unproductive and only causes to continue discord.

"those who simply drone about conduct are sidelining the issue"

Poor conduct unbefitting a Muslim is half the reason Muslims are in the state they are in. The right adab is necessary with the Creator, and every entity in His creation. The Prophet (s) is reported to have said: "None of you will have authentic faith until your hearts are made right, nor will your hearts be made right until your tongues be made right, nor will your tongues be made right until your actions be made right."

Analogise this to terrorism for a moment. The people who perpetrated the horrific acts of 7/7 and 9/11 may have had legitimate grievances, but their method of drawing attention or trying to change the world was completely immoral. The ends do not justify the means.

I was disspointed by the dispatches program. In part because it showed Muslims yet again divided on issues and it seemed to blow the whole issue about sisters not being able to pray in mosques out of proportion. One interesting point raised was the lack of sisters on Mosque committees which I think is something that needs to be addressed by all the mosques. However, on the whole I was really appalled at the sisters behaviour. They seemed to be very emotional about the whole issue, travelling to mosques outside their local areas challenging and provoking the brothers. There is no way that I would stand in front of a mosque at jummah the way they did. Sisters, you need to reflect on your actions. What did you achieve? You were upset about the brothers not giving you respect but sticking a camera in front of them without approval was not wise and was ultimately provoking them. I wouldn't want someone to start filming outside my house without my permission. You went about it the wrong way and made us Muslims look stupid again. Ok, the mosques need to be reformed but why agree to doing this film in such a confrontational manner???? If a mosque has a good Imam it's often the best way to change things, if they haven't, take my advice it's not worth trying and looking like fools. A sister in Islam.

Salam

Ive heard both for and against arguments for mpac, Some disagreeing with the way mpac went about their way. Some congratulating.

Whats actually happened:
1) Majority of muslims who were just about to give mpac a second chance are not going to and are fed up of the organisation.

But what types of muslims are the above? some call them the ones who actually stop the women from coming to the mosque themselves. Others say they are basically trying to voice a simple message that all the mosques who do not accomodate women, is because they simply cannot accomodate due to lack of space. Who's right?

We dont know who is right because no one has actually provided proper facts as to why majority (if it is that) do not accomodate women, is it because they dont have room, or is it because they are opressing womens rights? Can we have some facts?

What does Islam say? Well a hadith mentions that it is better for a woman to read at home. That in no way means that women should be blocked out from mosques.

From reading the comments it seems like MPAC has done a good job kicking the Muslims up their backside. Sometimes you need a good kick up backside to get you moving and standing to attention. It may be painful and you may not like it but that is what you need. It's for your own good and you'll know it in time. You Muslims will never do anything to improve your situation. You're backward and it's in your genetic makeup. The holocaust is coming your way - and that would be some big mumma boot up you backsides. Maybe then you'll see sense. (I still doubt it).

SalaamI am not a naive or ignorant Muslim male. I believe in the rights of Muslim women in the ummah, they play a important role in the ummah which can only make our ummah strong. But what those sisters and MPACUK did yesterday was disgraceful. All you did was cause fitna within the ummah without understanding the consequences of your actions. You have joined the bandwagon of humailating Muslims rather then help them. You have used this issue and become part of that stick to continue beating the Muslim ummah in the UK. There were and are certain ways you could have gone about doing your actions but all you did was be confrontational and sensationalist, playing into the hands of the laughing kuffar and the naive presenter. You chose to go to those masjids because it would cause drama. Do you really think channel 4 would of wanted your story if a Masjid accepted you. As i said there were ways you go about it and this was not the way. Modesty and sincereity is not only in the appreance but also in actions and behaviour of you towards others. You talk about the Quran and the sunnath but what do you really understand it and how to relate it today times. The Quran and sunnath are there and there for one reason only... to worship Allah (swt) AND not for your own agenda and publicity. You as MPACUK have alienated yourself from the ummah... trust me more people are hurt and angry by your actions rather then supporting them. Sisters take time to reflect on what you have done, you have not given any more rights to the sisters, all you have done is cause fitna amoungst your own for your own agenda and publicity. Make dua to Allah and ask for forgiveness because your intention may be sincere.Salaam

I tell you what as we're hell bent (hell being the operative word) on this issue, why not change the hadith where it deals with the distribution of inheritance and give more of the wealth to the woman in question when her husband passes away?? Just like the non-muslim mentality (which i have no opinion on) where a woman should earn the same salary as a man who does the same job.

why do i get the feeling the society and culture we live in is (may allah protect us) changing our religious beliefs and doctrines??

When have any of you so called 'muslim' sisters had a mature conversation with an 'aalim or mufti to clarify the issue?

Why is it that i get the feeling you are all hell bent (there it is again) on getting 'your' way. Disliking the way it is in Islam and have NO regard, respect and reverence towards scholars.

By the way i understand sub-continental committee members can be stubborn and culturally inclined. That i have no excuse for.

My Allah have Mercy on your Souls and Progeny!!

As Allah as my Witness...the moon can come down to the earth and Sun can come down to the earth BUT the Shari'ah will NEVER change!!

Just as Allah has protected the His Word (Quraan) He can protect His Laws too!!

My advice is to read Islamic History. Try a book called 'Perished Nations' by Harun Yaha. Might wake you up.

This applies Muslim men as well. Hey I got to be fair - AS ISLAM SAYS!!!

Asalaam alai kum wa rahmatullah wa barakatu,

The programme yesterday did not give a true representation of Muslims and masaajids in Great Britain. Its timing was not appropriate especially as we have the niqaab issue in the press.

Personally I feel that both parties could have been more calmer and maturer in their approach. Perhaps the press could have been more postitive in its approach as well. I am well aquainted with East London and know that there are plenty of masaajids that do cater for sisters they even go so far as having arabic classes, gym (for sisters only) and islamic studies classes for sisters. But they were not touched upon.

I cant help but think that this programme did nothing but fuel the Islamophobia that already exists in the media. It also gave a false impression of the majority of masaajids and of sisters who would most definately have approached the issue much more differently.

May Allah swt unite the Muslim Ummah and reduce the divisions that exist. Ameen.

Umm Halima

Well if MPAC is so concerned about lack of prayer facilities for women then why dont they do what the muslims immigrants into this country did when they found no prayer facilities in thier communities? Thats right, go and set up a suitable facility that does meet you're needs. At some point when the understanding develops furhter between the 'old school' and the younger generation then this will not be a big issue but for the moment it exists and by trying to solve it on a television show will not really achieve anything except increase disunity within the ummah.

The slipshod way the women and the men justified their views shows the way of Mpac. People who have no experience or skill to translate the Quran or the Sunnah take an issue and run with it based on thier judgement. If you are not skilled scholars (i.e know the connotations and denotations of the Quran, know why and how it traverses from the first person to the second person, to the third person) then whose guidance do you follow? And if you are following no scholarly guidance, why are causing fitnah with your 'make it as you go' brand of Islam? I don't know is Asghar or any of the women who were spouting the Quran and the Sunnah bona fide scholars?? If you are maybe you should tell us so that we can take you views on board with a bit more candour.

Superb points by Mohammed Majid- everyone search for it here and read it.

Another valid point made by Muslimah:" The first masjid in east London didnt have enough room to accomodate the bros never mind the sisters. The bros were praying there jumma salat out on the pavement. Yet (one of the women)made a specticle of this on camera,does she not know that we women do not have to pray jumma salah."

Now as far as i'm concerned this was not simple 'leafleting' - it was an unislamic point being made for, it would seem, only for the camera’s. |WHy couldn't you guys go at another time and not during friday prayers - its fard for men but not for women

Don't get me wrong i think some one the mosque committee are power hungry people with their own agenda but mpac it seems are no different.

I initially didn't like Mpac began to like it recently and wanted to support it financially, but now it seems the unislamic arrogance is rearing its ugly head.

I hope you get back to all the good work you have done.

May Allah reward you if your work is sincere and keep you, like all of us, on the correct path.

Although i may agree with your objective, i totally disagree with your method. All i saw was fitnah being created at the expense of getting MPAC some publicity.

Instead, you should try to get in touch with mosque committees and have meetings where there can be intelectual discourse, while at the same time having the Islamic ettiquets as well as adaab. Mr Bukhari needs to be less emotional and certianly needs to stop shouting over people.

I support u against Jack Straw.
I support u against Zionazis.
I never support u against Muslims.

Asghar's attitude is totally ANTI ISLAMIC when dealing with elders.

The women Jihadists fighting muslims for the right to mingle with the boys made me physically sick. Wrong Attitudes. Wrong ways.

Just a bunch of young, ignorant, unwise, fitnah mongers.

No you provoked everything and wanted the reaction you got from the mosque and offcourse people will threaten to break the camera when it is displaying your nonsense to the whole world. You used the camera as a tool, why couldn't you do this without a t.v crew and yes it was you who created the zoo outside the mosque. Some of you need your heads checked because their are more important issues out there facing muslims and to every muslim out there, being muslim is not only about praying, you need to make your heart pure and have a strong iman.

As-Salaamu Alaykum,

While I agree totally with the point of the programme - women should be given access to the mosques. The mannerisms and adab of our brothers and sisters from MPACUK was, sorry to say, very bad. You guys should of had the better behaviour, as you knew the reaction you were going to get especially when you turn up with a camera. The WORST part was the scene when MPACUK and the LMC had a shouting match. At one point Asghar was shouting at a sister who was his elder-akhee this is disrespectful, yes, I know they were also shouting back. Then somebody reminds everyone that it was the month of Ramadaan!!! I couldn't believe it.The Prophet told us if someone wishes to argue with you in the blessed month tell them "I am fasting". All on camera. Today at work everyone was talking about it. Same message - good point, terrible adab. Please MPACUK, particularly Asgar, who does some good work - sort out the manners, you are getting a bad rep for that issue.

ibn zakaria

Salaams
Because of MPACs now usual arrogant attitude that they know best, they have turned an important discussion into an excuse for splitting the Ummah (how our enemies must be rubbing their hands right now). MPAC should try and work with the mosques that are forwarding thinking, but they choose not to. Perhaps because this would not grab the media attention.

Their Machiavellian approach will end up putting so many people off them and unfortunatley off their important message.

Those of you blaming the "mosque mob" have no idea what you are talking about and the women who call mosque's hangouts for men clearly do not deserve to be in the house of allah. As a member of millham street mosque and present on the day of the MPAC's "peaceful" protest I witnessed firsthand Mr Asghar's desperado to get his five minutes of fame. From the onset his intentions were to cause a fight and every action of his represented this. He provoked a reaction by himself pushing and shoving member's of the mosque who he'd come to convince of his cause. And to say the women was attacked was proposterous. Not one woman was touched by anyone-there was only dialogue with these women who at every opportunity raised their voices to shout and scream for good TV viewing. What you saw on TV was what they wanted you to see. You're telling me you really believe that a crowd just suddenly appeared and started abusing MPAC members? They edited out the origins of the argument when asghar stood outside the doors of the mosque-preaching and pushing and shoving members of the mosque. MPAC- do yourselves a favour and give Downing Street their contributions back and crawl back into the hole you came from. Yes you may get your 5mins of fame on TV but to realistically think you are representing ISLAM you are severely misguided.

Well done MPAC! My whole family including Mum, Sister and Nieces have been attending the Mosque from when I was young.

The Quran is the Last Testament of Allah not the Hadith or from a Caliph. So to all my Sisters I will back you 100% and give you warm welcome into the House of Allah.

All these so called scholars are not really articulate in what they preach and are the pain in the back for all Muslims. So please take your interpretation of Non-Islamic theory away with you.

Lets progress with the teachings of 'The Noble Quran' Wasalaam

Some comments here have been disturbing. I hope I have misunderstood them, but allow me to offer this general advice on the necessity of following the Sunnah, and what it means to deny that it should be followed.

Proofs from the Qur'an on the Necessity of Following the Prophet (s):

And whatever the Messenger has given you — take it; and what he has forbidden you — refrain from it. (59:7)

And We revealed to you the Message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought. (16:44)

He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah. (4:80)

Remember Allah’s favours on you, and that which He has sent down to you of the Book and the Wisdom (i.e. the Sunnah) whereby He instructs you. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is All-Aware of everything. (2:231)

And many, many other Qur'anic instructions to follow the Prophet (s) sunnah, as it consists of the the completion and clarification of the Qur'an itself.

There are mutawatir hadith (meaning there are so many chains of narration that there could not possibly have been some conspiracy to forge it) which indicate the necessity of following the Sunnah. There is also ijma (consensus) of the Muslims which confirms the same.

Finally, when we take a purely rational examination of the way in which the Qur'an and the Sunnah have been transmitted, it becomes illogical to deny one without the other. One of the most basic proofs that the Qur'an has not been altered or tampered with is the fact that it is mutawatir (multiply mass narrated). There is simply no way that someone can change or make a mistake in the Qur'an without someone else correcting them. In precisely the same way, there are many hadiths which have been transmitted in such numbers that they are called mutawatir. If someone attempts to change them or makes a mistake in them, there is someone there to correct them.

If you are willing to believe in the multiple mass narration of one thing (i.e. the Qur'an), how can you not believe in the mass narration of another, when they come from the same sources ? It all comes from the same place. The Companions, The Followers of the Companions, and the Followers of the Followers -- they bequeathed to us both the Qur'an AND the Sunnah, inheriting that from the Prophet himself, who was taught by Allah through the angel Jibreel.

To summarise: to deny the necessity of the sunnah, when the Qur'an explicitly states the necessity of it is disbelief (kufr). The hadith collections, consensus and simple intellect only further clarify and confirm this.

Omar Shah" are you a scholar?

If not why are you questioning scholars? If you do not agree with the scholars, then please go through the necessary Islamic studies yourself and turn yourself into a scholar. Then and only then will we take your view on board - otherwise you are no different from the so-called secular Muslims - the ignoramuses who have no knowledge of Islam yet are quick to pass judgement.

salaamI totaly disagree with Mpac's fight for womens rights as they call it and most importantly the way they went about it. I think they need to clarify their Fight with some Mufti's before refusing to apologise tho those that disagree with them!Wassalaam.

Asalamalaikum,

Ali, with a great name as yours, you seem to lack intelligence my brother. I am not a scholar of Islam, however Allah Sub Hanat Allah has graciously bestowed me with a brain like all my brothers and sisters in Islam.

If I jump everytime a so called scholar tells me to I am not doing myself any justice. Without my Muslim sisters I am incomplete as a man. So please read 'The Noble Qu'ran' and state a verse, which excludes my sisters from worshipping in the same Mosque as me?

I await your timely response my brother (Ali) in Islam.

Thank you brother Saladin for a very articulate response.

Wa'Salaam

As-salamu alaykum,

Thank you for your comment, brother.

On the subject of the necessity of following scholars, if you are not a scholar yourself, the Qur'an provides a definitive proof.

"Ask those who remember if you do not know" (16:43)

Imam Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyya (b. 1292) said:

"A useful analogy is that a person who wishes to purchase some commercial good and has no expertise in the object of his purchase. Should he ask a trustworthy expert who is sincere in his advice as to which type is the best to buy and then follow his advice, it is quite obvious that it is much more likely that by doing so he will choose the correct one and achieve his desired object as opposed to relying upon his own unqualified opinion. This is a fact agreed upon by all people of intellect everywhere!"

Further information on the subject:
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhab.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/studyh.htm

http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/PrintMedia/Articles/AR00000079.aspx

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/newmadhh.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhabstlk.htm

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/mhfatwa.htm

If you are worried about how to distinguish between the various 'groups' that have appeared in the Ummah in this age,

a) stick to those scholars who have an authorised, verifiable isnad (chain) back to the Prophet (s), in the learning of the deen. It is not considered impolite to ask a scholar what his/her qualifications are before embarking upon study with him/her, as long as you do not do it in a fashion that resembles contempt or disrespect.

b) stick to those scholars who are recognised as being part of the majority of Muslims.

Peace and blessings upon our master Muhammad, and all praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.

Asalamalaikum,Brother Saladin, I have an independent mind and the intelligence too seek the truth and, Islam in my opinion is the truth. The Noble Qu'ran guides me to a light and Allah Subhana Ta Allah is the light and my salvation. Not a Scholar who leads me to treat my Sisters with disdain or anyone who preaches hatred i.e. Israeli Politics, Apartheid etc........ It is these so-called scholars such as Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab who mis-interpreted The Noble Qu'ran and have been instrumental to sectarianism, which is killing us.We have to look deeper and start respecting eachother. So please understand, too me, my sisters are highly important and deserve my respect. So please take the room at the back of the Mosque and come to pray with your brothers.Wa'salam

During his life, Muhammed Ibn Abd Al-Wahhab forged a pact with Najd chieftain Muhammad bin Saud, ensuring that regions conquered by the Saudi tribe would be ruled according to Ibn 'Abd Al-Wahhab's peculiar teachings on Islam. Bin Saud and his heirs would spend the next 140 years mounting various military campaigns to seize control of Arabia and its outlying regions. The most successful of these would establish the present-day Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, providing the Wahhabi movement with a state. Vast wealth from oil discovered in the following decades, coupled with Saudi - and thus Wahhabi - control of the holy cities of Mecca and Medina, have since fueled Wahhabi missionary activity.Please correct me with facts if this is wrong.

This is one of the scholars who believe Sisters shouldn't be allowed into the Mosque.

Salams,
It's quite to say but the arrogance from your organisation is simply oozing from yourselves. Why can you not admit that it was wrong to shout at other muslims and the style you adopted just showed your immaturity as people who havn't really understood the basic notion of "ONE UMMAH", that we are united. It seems all you seek to do is cause disunity, and you are on a quest to show your superiority over others. Islam has defended the rights of women from the day it was revealed to mankind, by showing us how to behave with dignity and intelligence- not emotional immature trouble causers. This is is the basis of our status. Other muslims are not our enemy. You do very little to protect our rights, because you refuse to adhere by the guidelines of Islam. Sad really, you're very sincere but you just don't have clue. As an ummah if we fail to adhere to Islam in it's entirety, (not just when it fits in with our agenda), then we will fail to have Allah on our side- to help us resist and fight the batil. Your battle will be lost if you continue with this divisive and arrogant style.
Wasalam, Your sister

The sad thing is....the women who had taken part in this program inevitably have since had the time to apologise and have not since done so... (as they defended there plea on Islam Channel)

I have heard some points raised by sister Rebbecca put forward on Radio Ikhlas (Islamic radio station in the midlands) and her points were logical and feasible, differed to what was aired on channel four!

But like most comments raised above, the manner and fashion in which these sisters undertook this mission of theres was pure embarrassment and a mockery for our Muslim ummah.

I just hope this documentary didnt have an impact and fire up Muslim women or even non-Muslims who are able to use this flaw against all of us on a larger scale.

And Please, can we not use mainstream media to publicize more important issues

With regards to the comments made by 'Muslim sister', I know that you made these comments in October 2006, and I saw it then too. But I never thought to reply.
You are right, it is a good idea to allow Muslim sisters in the mosque to pray; all-be-it in seperate quarters. But it invited unwanted attention. May Allah (swt) forgive me for my faults too, and may He unite the Ummah, and bring 'peace' between us all. May Allah (swt) guide us and not leave us in control of ourselves for the twinkling of an eye, and the utterance of our tongue. Ameen, Ya Rabal Alameen.
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Muslim sister:
Salaam. Just to say that I thought the whole idea of Muslim women praying in the mosque was a good one but it seemed as if it was not portrayed in the best way. There were far too many arguments and much banter although I do not wish to blame either side, and Allahu-alam. May Allah forgive me for my faults and may He unite the Muslims, ameen. After all, Islam's literal meaning is 'peace'.Wassalaam.