A commendable move by MCB, we are in testing times... Muslims and non-Muslims alike, and extremists on both sides are trying to ruin our lives.

The times has come when these criminals must be condemned from mosques and by every Muslim organisations in extremely strong language.

Instead of going to heaven, as these criminals think, they are preparing to go to hell. One fails to understand what makes them believe that by taking innocent lives they will be rewarde by God. They are nothing but cowards with suicidal tendencies.

For God's sake, whatever the reason, we must admit that we have such misguided cowards amongst us. Only when we admit that there is an illness then we will be able to cure it.

Thos who have any sympathay with these coward beasts, my message to them is that, be they the perpetrators of 7/7 or the plottors of other such tragedies, the way you are hated by everyone, including the Muslims, is a clear sign of your definit punishment when you appear before the Almighty. The way God made one of you naked in today's attempt and everyone is watching you lying humiliated on the ground is yet another sign of God's punishment for you. Come to your senses idiots. How much blood do you need to quinch your thrust. By these acts you are not helping anyone only adding to problems and defaming Islam and Muslims.

Well done to Alex Salmond SNP who reminded us all yesterday that these attacks by whoever they may be, are

"committed by Individuals and not communities"

At last A white politicans that makes sense and has principles.

I really praise the courage and moral strength of M. A. Yusufzai.

I wish more Muslims had his courage, took resposibility and openly condemned the cowardly acts of those who perpetrate violence in the name of Islam.

Unfortunately I have all too often noticed on this moderate message board a sense of implicit justification for the acts of Islamic terrorism.

I would welcome a march against terrorism, organised by Muslims and partecipated by all

kashianinks - going on a march to condemn terrorism is fine as terrorism is not in anyway a part of Islam but why call it islamic terrorism when in light of recent events we don't even know all the facts.

Why fall into the trap of letting others think the muslim community can do anything to stop these actions by individuals who want revenge for the governments muderous foreign policies against muslims. That is exactly the blame game that the government want to play with muslims so they don't have to take responsibility for their actions.

2 million people marched against war and we still went to war and so no one takes any notice of marches and I don't think the individuals who are intent on revenge for murderous foreign polices of our government will somehow be on the marches.

Much better to have a march as rob has already said that is against all forms of terrorism including individual and state terrorism.

Some of the sick comments that have been on this site (some have ben removed) will given you an indication of the violent extremists that are in our midst and I don't mean muslims.

They are the ones that want to target muslims with the same the terrorism and violent extremism in the name of christianity that is being perpertrated against the people of Iraq, Palestine and Afghanistan.

TO THE MODERATOR OF THESE BOARDS

You pretend to offer debate on issues relevant to muslims on these boards, to open up to free discussion, yet this is a fraudulent lie.

Why? Because you censor and delete any comments that contest your world view, deleting many responses that would open your minds. Witness the current debate on the Car bomb found in London thread– You had a good debate going here, yet you have quite scandalously deleted postings by non-muslims yet left comments in place by muslim loony-tune nitwits like Judge Dredd. The result is that reading the page now, after your outrageous deletions, one has a one sided discussion skewed to present Judge Dredd as the voice of sanity and reason and a discussion that is utter gibberish.

If you want a one sided, muslim only discussion thread then say so.

If you want to see what a mature and adult discussion thread looks like then I would refer you to the Guardian Online Comment pages, which freely allows people of all political persuasions to rant, discuss, debate freely.

Until you guys grow up and can face criticisms then you’ll be viewed as infants in British political discourse, fit only to march like demented, spoiled, angry children, demanding death to anyone who offends your delicate sensibilities.

<b>MPACUK MOD: If you wish to discuss or debate do so in a professional manner. <p>If you wish to use foul language post racist comments and pornographic link then please go somewhere where unethical and immoral language is accepted is held very low.<p>
The rules and regulations are made clear, if you cannot accept them then you are more than welcome to go somewhere else.</b>

David - you are joking are'nt you?.

You talk about debating and refer to a thread of which I am aware. I could have got more sense and debate from a 2 year old than some of the sick obsenities that were posted by some supposed adult debaters.

I agree some of the comments were genuine although I don't see how calling someone a loony tune nitwit encourages debate, but unfortuntaely some want to use the posting as a trash can for their seriously unrecyclable garbage.

I hope that the arrest of these people will lead to the capture and end of these vile organisations who preach and promote this sickness. We are all aware of world issues but nobody can attempt to justify these acts of cowardness. If you want to do jihad learns the rules first, People like this make me sick

To the Moderator of these boards, again

I stand by my comments.

In fact you have proved my point by Bully-Pulpit tactics and affixing your comments to the end of mine. What on earth are you talking about when you refer to racist or pornographic links???

By making these silly comments you prove my point by implying that you have deleted such comments, & not allowing others to read them! Do you really not understand the concept of free-speech and democracy?

It is a little like turning off the mike in a public meeting so opponents cannot be heard.

David - free-speech that quaint concept that we all fully support but can't define. You stand in parliament square and repeat some of the comments that you saw on the thread or even just rant and rave and see what happens.

At least free speech on this board has a purpose as the right of someone to infinge the rights of others is not acceptable.

David, I agree that your comments, irrational as they are should not have been deleted, however there were a few vulgar ridiculous comments which lower the standard of debate and therefore were rightly removed.

Israeli David,

I thought we agreed that with your blind support of the Evil Zionist, Muslim-murdering regime of that "country" Israel, you are blind in your hate for Muslims.

You should not post on here about your views against Muslims because you have a severly vested interest in Israel's continued brutality and objective of a Muslim Holocaust.

Anyway, from the other car bomb threat, it seems I was right in my very first posting.

It was indeed the IDF "intelligence" agents who got some misguided non-believers to chant "Islam" and try and commit ATTROCITIES against our own people in our nation.

Why I ask myself is Israel bringing Terror to the shores of Britain?
Doesn't Israel understand that Britain is more powerful than Israel and if Britain wanted it could please its 2 million muslim population with the press of a little red button?

You know the red button that says "ISRAEL, YOU HAVE BEEN EVICTED"....."PLEASE LEAVE THE STAGE"...

It would be nice if some of those violence enciting posts by the "5th Column" Zionists in our country are left on.

It is the best marketing for MPACUK.

These murderous terrorist individuals are showing their contempt for human life through their posts.

Obviously the really offensive ones can be deleted, but there is actually a powerful message to our countrymen in the disgusting zionist posts. The message is simple:

"Do you really want to end up with this level of hate and contempt for life, like those "Islam" chanting IDF inspired agents"?

Judge Dredd proves my point

What an utter nitwit.

I really cannot be bothered debating with such an idiot who calls me israeli david (in his mind trying to be as insulting as he can) when I haven't even mentioned izrael, am not jewish or israeli - indeed I told him that I am not religious at all, but am atheist.

and when I responded to his vile and anti-semitic comments the moderator of this board deletes my comments and leaves his!!

Madness

The tactics of the bully pulpit.

You people have to grow up.

David,

you are guilty of:

- Name-calling

- Slurs

- Posting pornographic material

- accusations of lack of freedom of expression.

- slurs of anti-semitism.

hmmmmmmm.....ok Mr Israeli.....and you think I have done any of that?

and then you say that you don't want to debate but keep responding to me and are still here.......

I think you can go to one of your own specialist websites.

I think people reading on here can see exactly what porn websites I have posted (none)

Have had my posts deleted (see the threads on the London Car Bombings) leaving Judge Dredd's intact - thus proving beyond doubt my accusations of lack of freedom of expression are true.

As for my accusations of anti-semitism, well JD has just done it again!

I can only assume JD is part of the MPAC team, hence he is allowed to do and say whatsover he wants!

At least JD and the moderators have stopped their groundless and silly accusations of racism!

There is nothing to be achieved here debating because JD and his pals refuse to engage seriously, but cut comments, sneer superciciously.

But there is a serious VERY SERIOUS issue here, that muslims have to grow up and stop refusing to accept responsibility for everything and stop blaming others. Israel did not plant those 7/7 tube bombs, nor did israel topple the twin towers, nor did israel leave that car down haymarket packed with explosives.

To say so is really mad and is exactly the same loony tunes logic as saying that the moon landings didn't take place.

David,

Could you answer one question.

Just One.


A little one.

Did you state:


"I really cannot be bothered debating with such an idiot"

Where, incidentally you superimposed on me, one one of your personality attributes (idiocy).

Well....I can see that I have hit the truth and hurt you that you still continue with those Zionistic slurs.

And above all.....just to show you with your own words how they count for nothing.......

you are still debating with me.

Are you principled?
Do you believe in what you stand for?
Then why do you continue to make false statements?

Did you say:

"when I responded to his vile and anti-semitic comments"

Please ......if you are half the person that you think you are, please....tell me where such comments were made.....please?

Also, why did you make the Anti-semitic slur?

IF that is....you want to carry on wasting your time......and debating.

JD, my final comment to you.

I am not debating to you or with you, because there is no point

Your sneering and superior attitude is too tiresome. You are possessed of an arrogant sense of your own debating skills, when you have none. You cannot construct an argument, but slip and slide all over the place, changing arguments when you want.

No, I am posting on here to give witness to others and to allow you enough rope to hang yourself with.

Something I am achieving admirably, I think, because you are revealing yourself to be exactly what I say you are.

David,

Thats twice in a row, but you are still here, with your name calling and slurs:

Did you say (in addition to all your other posting full of your hate for Muslims):

"I really cannot be bothered debating with such an idiot"

"I am not debating to you or with you, because there is no point"

Lets agree on two things based on your performance so far:

1) it is easy to be superior in debating skills to you as you resort to using the Anti-Semitic card and name-calling to justify Israeli murderers and Israel bringing terror to the streets of our country.

2) it is indeed time for you to stop "wasting time".

Summary: The car bombers in London and Glasgow were misguided atheists like david who chanted "Islam" and whose only intention was to make Muslims look evil, when in reality they are the evil IDF agents, the Zionists, the 5th Column in our country.

The prime minister and Scotland Yard have clearly stated that this is an act of Islamic terrorism but on this board there are still people that disingenuously say that we do not know the facts. I can assure you that neither the Buddist or the Kundulini did this.

Secondly I keep hearing the same refrain that those acts of violence are the response to our foreign policy.

I suggest that you go and read and study carefully Hassan Butt's todays open letter in the Guardian.
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2115891,00.html)
Hassan Butt was a member of Al Muhajiroun and he proclaims as laughable the idea that Islamic act of terror are a retaliation against Wester foreign policy.
He continue saying that -Islamic terrorism is functional in founding a revolutionary State that eventually would bring Islamic "justice" to the world.

kashianinks - lets' just arrest those who the police think did this, have a trial by media and then lock them up for whatever sentence the media and police thinks they deserves. Or even better still let's organise a lynch mob or posse who can round up all the undesirables and just hang 'em high.

That'll save the courts time in trying to find out who did what. You'd like that wouldn't you?

Just like on the other thread on the Car bombing, I was waiting for David to disappear and another Zionist to appear.

Here is a repeat of the MEMRI inSANE message to all the Zionists.

YES....YOU ARE RIGHT...ISRAEL MURDERING MUSLIM WOMEN AND CHILDREN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING.

FALSELY INVADING IRAQ HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING.

INVADING AFGHANISTAN AND KILLING CIVILLIANS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING.

CREATING DISORDER AND DEATH IN SOAMLIA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING.

SUPPORTING PUPPET DICTATORIAL REGIMES IN UZBEKISTAN etc HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING.


--------

SNAP OUT OF IT.

OK, WAKE UP....come on now wake up and stop listening to and propogating your propoganda.

Please....we are intelligent.

This kind of mass propoganda by the 5th Column and their Ed Hussains and Butts is really laughable.

Mind you the only thing I look forward to is bringing Islamic or even Christian or even TRUE Jewish Justice to Israel and Zionists.

Typical Zionists! (zio-nazis) - I say we just delete their posts whenever they appear on the Muslim site. Let the devils do their mischief elsewhere.

kashianinks - Exactly!!! Well said.I cannot believe there are people permitted by MPAC onto these boards to announce that the israelis carried out the recent Haymarket attempted bombing or that the glasgow burning car, attempted mass murder, is also the work of the izraelis. I think MPAC needs to take a long hard look at itself, not just for this but also for all the other reasons I have listed above. A serious debate needs to be had and this is not possible with MPAC's censoring everything and yet allowing some of the other (I cannot think of any other word but) Loons on here to smear and blame the israli's for everything that muslims have done.

Israel WAS responsible for rectruiting and pushing the atheists to car-bomb Glasgow airport and London whilst chanting "Islam".

The IDF did this through various "5th column" agencies in our country and in the civlised non-Iraeli world. Agencies such as MEMRI and inSANE and othe evil Zionist organisations.

Enough Rope Given

Result, an idiot hangs himself in public for all to see.

.

David - I can't understand where you're comming from. you are prepared to believe the line that some individual muslims are behind the 3 incidents. You may be right and you may be wrong but we don't as yet have any facts.

You are not prepared to believe what Judge Dredd is saying and he may be right and he may be wrong but we don't have any facts.

Your comments on this post:

".. Because you censor and delete any comments that contest your world view, deleting many responses that would open your minds"

Why have you closed your mind but want others to open theirs????

Thats right david, that is the policy that the IDF uses with the terrorists.

You are getting there......slowly.

I see you are still here though - trying to debate.

To Mr full stop man!...........

Why do I close my mind to the idea that the israelis would bomb london??? Because even a moment's thought would enable you to realise this is utter nonsense.

Why would the izraelis do that? In order to discredit muslims?? Honeypie, trust me when i tell you as a white englishman atheist when I tell you that muslims do enough on their own bat to achieve that all too successfully - witness the recent hysteria over the salman rushdie knighthood and last year's danish cartoon affair. Most people are horrified by muslim behaviour.

I say this in a friendly manner and in attempted friendship, but you really don't need the israelis to discredit you. Your standing amongst ordinary brits is at zero and going down.

Do you honestly think the british secret service and police and govt would not know that it was the israelis? I remember the french secret service planting explosives in their embassy in London in order to test the british security services during the Thatcher era. All diplomatic hell broke loose.

So, please let's be realistic.

I think part of the problem with this website is that it's encouraging loony-tune conspiracy theories without challenging them.

That's the reason I am banging on and on about you having to take responsibility for yourselves. I don't understand why you all find it so difficult to accept that it was muslims who did these evil deeds. If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

You have got to leave behind this mad idea that MI6, Mossad and the CIA are behind all evil in the world.

Move on David,

Why dont you go and strike up an allegiance with the BNP because that is the kind of allegiance that suits your ilk.

And that is the kind of hatred to which the misguided terrorists respond to with their own hatred.

It is all inspired by your ilk at the end of the day.

And ironic it is that you defend Israel and claim not to be an evil Israeli yourself.

You realise not that you are causing hatred and war in our country. We ought to ship you and your ilk of Zionists to Zimbabwe (or Argentina).

David,

not CIA, not MI5 - they are not as Zionist as your ilk.

JUST IDF Mossad and MEMRI and (in)SANE.

This is ridiculous. This debate is ridiculous. Until the whole lot of your stop name-calling and badgering each other nothing will change. We need to stand firm against terrorism - any forms of terrorism.

But let me get one thing absolutely clear...government policy does not justify revengae attacks against its innocent subjects or citizens. That is barbaric and bullying to the point of shame.

At this time, all rational people everywhere should denounce acts of orchestrated, systematic violence against innocent people.

I'm not going to tolerate accusations of 'zionism' or 'antisemitism' or 'racism' etc etc. I do not believe/accept that anyone on here actually wants sensible debate - only the chance to throw around harsh words, violent ideological rhetoric and slanderous remarks.

What sort of forum is this? This is an arena where hatred and violence are tolerated and even perpetuated. Until that changes, no one will take it seriously.

Regards

David

As an atheist you don't care what will happen to you after your time is up and you don't care about the feelings of muslims that doesn't make you have the right to tell me that I should not be offended and that I should not expect the society in which we live to take account of my and many other muslims' feelings. Why should one person have the right to infringe the rights and feelings of over a fifth of the world population? What an ego trip!!! and our country is saying way to go.

A truly open mind is one that seeks and waits the facts. The law of probability is irrelevant when you are waiting to find over 1 billion people guilty by association.

There you go again talking about responsibility.

I think we've had that one out before. Why don't the government accept the responsibility for their actions as they had the choice of whether to murder innocent muslims civilians that they found guilty by association.

People like me and joe public merely may suffer the consequences of their actions in the event of beinng caught up in a terrorist attack, irrespective of who the terrorist is.

As for being friendly go ahead by all means but just accept that we live in a society where thoughts, feelings, opinions and actions are shaped depending on whether the other person is a muslim...and yes it is racism.

...and as far as I can see from most of the 'debates' taking place on this 'forum', a number of users...Judge Dredd in particular is a Troll and therefore is breaking the Computer Misuse Act 1990. If contributors continue to act in this way, I suggest MPAC reports them.

I do not seek to inflame any situation - just to improve it for everyone.

Kind regards

Banbury - are you seriously suggesting that Judge Dredd be vanquished and heard of no more.

Is this because you don't agree with him? Is this because he is close to the knuckle? It because you find what he is saying uncomfortable to ponder? Is ecause he should not have freedom of speech because he is a muslim?

To Mr Full Stop...........

I fear we may have to disagree about our respective world views. But I have to point out that giving offence to people of a religious persuasion (or to politicians etc) is part and parcel of living here in the west - that is a right that has had to be fought for and people have died to achieve.

I say this without any rancour, but you are going to have to accept it.

Sorry.

But we really are not going to give this right up just to suit one particular religious grouping.

But back to the bombing issue - what alarms me is that you appear (and I say appear) to support the actions of these mad murderers. It isn't good enough to say that the actions of our govt justify bombing people, no more than the Baader Meinhoff gang or the Red Brigade were justified because they didn't agree with the actions of their particular societies. Murder is murder and is never ever justified.

Besides which debating about british foreign policy is a separate issue to this discussion. WE can argue if you want about whether toppling saddam hussein was justified or whether british troops are doing good in afghanistan - having toppled the fascist taliban. (I happen to think the latter was more than justified.)

But to reiterate, disagreement with govt foreign policy or to the british state awarding a knighthood to a writer is not, ever, justification for murder.

I hope you would agree with this.

Mr full stop man..................,
you are sneering at the idea of the Police making arrests

- lets' just arrest those who the police think did this..., you say in disdain.

I am sorry Mr full stop man, I do not know which Country or Planet you come from but the Police IS the very body whose responsibility is to arrest a suspect. Who would you want them to be arrested by? The Dentist Society?

The fact that you have a problem about the Police arresting these perpetrators, in the case of Glasgow caught in the act, tells a lot about your hypocricy and myopic views.

I also suggest to ignore the moron who calls himself Judge Dredd. Let him go back to his Playstation and ban him from a mature discussion.

David

you are right I don't agree with anything you are saying or with how you want to view the world whether from afghanistan, Iraq, africa or any other country.

You are also right that there is no argument about toppling saddam hussein. regime change is illegal and if our government really cared they would have not given him the weapons to kill muslims in the first place.

I think it really sad that you consider the loss of innocent lives to be justifiable whether in Iraq, afghanistan or anywhere else.

kashianinks:

I was hoping that you could read

Hey kashianinks

I with you 100% on your astute observations about Judge Dredd. He really should shut up and go away. I can say in all certainty that he is harmful to muslims and to holding a serious discussion on here.

He is part of the serious problem with these boards that his adolescent bombastic witterings are allowed to remain whereas the comments of others are deleted.

I am not sure what this says about the moderators of these boards, but it isn't good.

Of course I do not wish to 'silence' anyone, and free speack is a right enjoyed in this country irrespective of religion, ethnicity or anything else - this is true regardless of whatever faux-proof you offer to negate this fact.

I only wish people in general would stop being hyper-sensitive and understand criticism a little more. It is hard enough for someone who has studied foreign relations for close to 7 years to listen to some of the conspiracy on here, than have to accept that if I do not agree with someone I am therefore against muslims or some sort of raging zionist...(a typical, anti-semitic misuse of the word anyway!)

I only wish that debate could flourish here rather than snidely one-upmanship. And that goes for EVERYONE on here.

The UK faces a real threat of terrorism purpetrated against innocent people - as witnessed over the last two days. We should all be denouncing this and not worry about being labelled pro-israeli or antisemitic.

Finally, the name's Bunbury, not Banbury. Banbury is a town near Oxford.

Regards

The Bunbury Challenge.

I am beginning to understand some things very clearly.

When Muslims try to use freedom of expression, some zionists try to quote some act of law to try to stifle or scare the expression freedom of Muslims.

I have a suggestion: why doesn't Bunbury report me to the authorities?

If you are steadfast and believe in your principles?
Do you believe in your principles Bunbury?

I challenge you to report me - unless of course you are here to inflame the situation?

And stifle free speech.

I am waiting Bunbury......

I am waiting to hear if you are really upset with my view of the world because I have truth on my side.

Or if you want to report me to the authorities.

I am sure that if you make the report the will automaticall check the postings.

Oh what a facist you are Bunbury!

David,

Are you still upset with freedom of speech.

I suggest you ought to leave this country if you are.

We uphold freedom of speech here.

Well that's your speech banbury. Now here's the debate.

If we have freedom of speech why people who libel and slander others have rights?

Kash,

Not you calling stifling free speech as well eh...

How ironic.....3 little zionists wanting to ban free speech....la la la la....3 little zionists angry with free speech.

Bunbury,

Did Jihadwatch kick you off for trolling?

Is that how you are able to impress us with you knowledge of one aspect of the law?

Sir Andrew Turnbull agrees with me Bun.

You better get your money back from the HND college that taught you your BNP foreign policy views heh, Bunbury......

Are you obliviuos to reality Bunbury?

Are you trying to get my attention or is that a tic-tac in your pocket?

Judge D, it's called intimidation to shut us up like kashianinks tried to put words into my mouth about the police arresting people regarding their suspicions and also wanting to talk about tooth extractions...... this now makes me think zionists control the police force.

There are also many on this borad who act as though not only do they run the police force but also run the country and that the government and security services are run by them and under their control.

Oh dear. I do not seek to silence you in your crusade to 'own' this thread. I do take exception to being labelled a facist or a zionist - neither which is remotely true.

To call me a facist following my remarks is rather scary considering my views on world politics and political persuations. Being a member of the CND, Greenpeace, Stop the War Coalition (I could go on)...you're responds whiffs of resentment, petty vengeance and irrational self-belief.

I have come on to this site in the wake of the recent terror attacks to try and contribute to understanding the roots of the problems and to understand how people can react, especially muslims, to what must be a very tense time in your communities. Blame is catapulted at groups rather than individuals - and this is no way to solve anything.

Of course, if you choose to systematically abuse those that criticise you, why should I not report your abuse? Surely it is not right for you to be bullyish? If you honestly believe you are aiding this debate then fair enough - but with rights come resposibilities and you must exercise those resposibilities with the same level of extremity.

It is the responsibility of the webmaster to report - not me.

I do hope you do not respond with your usual diatribe of offensive labels. It isn't the way civilised people communicate.

I abhore terrorism, and everyone here should agree - not seek to justify.

Regards

HND college? BNP views?

I shall forward your remarks onto my former associates in Manchester, Cambridge and Oxford - I'm sure their legendary criticism of US and UK Foreign Policy could benefit from your rather astute observations and analysis.

Grow up, for heavens sake.

Jihadwatch??? I have no idea...

How can terrorism be stopped? Is it legitimate? How can it be tackled?

These are issues being overlooked by most people on here in favour of insult and rude labels. Yet, this is exactly the place where I (mistakenly) thought these matters would have been taken seriously.

Regards

to Mr Bunbury

Sorry mate, I've been trying to argue on these boards for a few days now and it's a hopeless struggle. - Read my posts above, near the top.

I also approached this board with exactly the same concerns you voice

I regret to say that you're going to have to find out for yourself that you're wasting your time!

I am also accused of being Israeli Dave (when i have posted not one comment either for agin Israel), of being a racist and, even more bizarrely, of posting porn web links on here!

Trying to get rational debate on here is like to eat soup using a fork.

I do not intend to engage in any more of this - I have been foolish enough to venture here to look for some rational debate and sensible reaction.

I am sorry if I have offended anyone, it certainly was not my intention and I apologise. I merely sought to improve what I saw was a depressingly vindictive, spiteful thread.

Regards

It does seem that without recourse Judge Dredd does really kill the debate. I personally dont agree with the majority of what David says or you Judge for that matter, But in essence what you do is take a simple debate which should be about people trying to learn from each other and turn it into a personal slanging match. Imagine non muslims or muslims coming on this forum for the first time and the impression your comments create on them

Mr Bunbury loses the BUNBURY CHALLENGE.

Roll on with the ANTI-ZIONIST INVASION.

Let me remind you of your valuable contributions Masud:


Masud: 2007-06-28 00:40:40

"Seriously dude people like you make me sick, If you really need to get your ego massaged so badly and prove your the big intelligent man then pay some hooker that £100....."



Care to enlighten me further Mr Masud?


ARE YOU GUILTY OF SLANGING OR AM I?



one of the advantages of having a large hard drive is that you can store EVERYTHING.

To ................
Let me clarify a point.
I am the first to abhor the concept of a trail by media and the idea of lynch mobs.
I expect the course of justice to take place.
That is for the Police to arrests the suspects, for the media to broadcast the news and for the public to discuss it.

I hope you agree that the Police has operated independently from political motives in arresting these individuals.

I equally hope you concur that there has not been a trail by media.

Finally I hope you believe that the public is entitled to comment (without being called a Zionist) on an act that analysts across the spectrum view as terrorism perpetrated by radicalized islamists.

I am Italian, I am an atheist, I hold liberal views but I cannot tolerate the culture of denial ingrained and widespread in vast parts of the Muslim community.

The key debate that you are unwilling to partecipate in is: radicalised islam and terrorism

Masud, Zionists:

If someone has something useful to debate then I am all ears (or fingers - for typing).

If someone is going to be a ZioNAZI, facist or Islamophobe or just silly like Masud, I will seek to prove that it is not a debate that they are after and the only way to do that is to show them up for what they really are...

One final point Judge and i wont ever bother u again, U are in the same mode as idiots like abu izzadeen and the saviour sect or whatever they are called this week. Theres an old english saying an empty ship makes the most noise ponder on that

So you didnt say:


"pay some hooker that £100....."

And that is not like the behaviour of your extremist non-believing friends?

This bunbury chap seems to have gone off in a huff after his speeces but he did not really say anything except give it the holier than thou speech.

He never answered the question about if we have free speech then why do we have libel and blasphemy laws. So much for debate.

Dear ......,

That is a very interesting point about free speech and one I will have a bash at answering to some extent - obviously open to criticism!

As I have mentioned earlier on this thread, rights come with responsibilities and these responsibilities define the extent to which speech should be contained. There must be a limit otherwise we leave ourselves and our society at risk from persecution and abuse.

Libel exists to enable free individuals to remain exempt from derision and slanderous comment. This I completely agree with - no person or people should have to live with criminal abuse and denunciation. Therefore, libel exists to protect the individual.

As for blasphemy laws, I cannot comment because I do not understand the barriers with regards to jurice prudence. This law seems to exist to protect a thought, whether it be shared within a group or 'owned' individually by a person.

I feel that if people could interact responsibly, and accept criticism, satirical comment (if aimed at a person, group or 'people' in the wider public interest), and not threaten the personal safety of others, then libel and blasphemy laws should remain largely divorced from genuine free speech.

Yes, but tell us about the other truer forms of Christianity?

Bun,

I see you are back after having stated you were not going to stay on this thread.

What exactly is your point?

You are trying to hide behind your obssession with free speech and trying to stifle others free speech.

Why do you pretend to be a scholar and make citations to your personal life......do you think it will impress anyone on here so that they won't think that your culture is not from "little green footballs" or jihadwatch.

Is it also your attempt to make friends or impress by suggesting that your self-esteemed self has colleagues who criticize foreign policy of the US and UK?

IS THERE A LINK BETWEEN MUSLIMS AND TERRORISM OR FOREIGN POLICY AND TERRORISM?

Why do you try to find a link between terrorism here in the UK and Islam when in reality our boys are over in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why do you avoid the simpler connections even if you find them painful to swallow?

Don't you think that the people our boys kill will retaliate with revenge? When does one mans fighting due to retaliation become religious extremism and another's is simply called "liberation" - don't you think it is a bit over simplified?

For example, what of the Iranian claims that the US and Brits are meddling in Iran through covert bodies.

Do you not think for a second that the Iranians are also capable of responding with covert bodies here in the UK?

And when they respond, will you blame all Muslims like the government is trying to do?

It would suit your and the government's purposes because it makes it easier to find the perpetrator by rounding up all Muslims to cover all those countries - or at least that is how the likes of you and the labour government think.

I am fed up with your confusions and rantings on right wing websites like jihadwatch and others about how it is Islam and Muslim terrorism when in fact it could just as easily be an Iranian or Iraqi or Palestinian or one of their sympathisers who is trying to take revenge on Britain for Britain's foreign policies and support of Israel. And if they happen to be Muslim, that is secondary.

And as for the muslims in this country - The only time I can envisage my brothers and sisters (ie the average muslim who is not an Iraqi,Iranian or Palestinian)responding wrongly and illegally with terrorist activities is in reaction to the severe Islamophobia that they are subject to. Incidentally I am sure you have obviously missed all those condemnations of such forms of retaliations from Muslim organisations.

And I hear you say - "WHAT!!.....your people commit attrocities just because of some made up word called Islamophobia"?

Well, Bun, when your friend were demonizing the Blacks in our country a few decades back, the Black community responded with petrol bombs and riots and were demonized in a similar manner.

That was because at that time, racist people used SKIN COLOR to crusade away on their persecutions.

Today, those very same ugly racists can hide their racist nature and use RELIGION. Not against the Jewish Religion - that is special. That has the response of Anti-Semitism. No....they use Religion against Muslims.

Well, when you and your alleged intellectual friends use the voice of reason to demonize Muslims to the extent of enciting hatred and violence against Muslims what do you think the result will be? Do you think the younger Muslims will just sit around and play tiddly winks? Is that what the Blacks did decades ago?

Do you not think it is persecution by the likes of you when an elderly Muslim man cannot walk down the high street because he gets verbal abuse and physical attacks from louts encited by your fellow intellectual extremists? Just because he dresses like a Muslim! This is not a made up case, it is re: my Father.

When I hear of cases like this and the sexual molestation of a young baby by those who your "freedom-obsessed" friends encite, it makes me furious.

It makes me come on here and point to all the possibilities that lead to the situations in which we find ourselves. It makes me want to find the ACTIONS that cause the violent and illegal REACTIONS.

I can only imagine that someone who is not as reasoned as myself will react differently. Anyone would have a gut reaction if ones family is harmed.


And then, I find it laughable that when the Israel and foreign policy connections are cited, you and facists who come to this site try to respond by stifling fair speech and making allegations of anti-semitism, trolls and citations of laws. All this as if you think that you know the law better than other citizens of this country.

That is laughable Bun.

SUMMARY

1) Terrorist attack in Britain can be due to our foreign policy. eg Iraq, Iran, Palestine.
2) Terrorist attacks in Britain can be due to persecution of Muslims.
3) Terrorist attacks are not justified.
4) Terrorist attacks are an unjust and an illegal reaction to an action.
5) The action needs to be addressed as well as finding the perpetrators of such terrorist actions.
6) Enciting hatred (obvious or intellectually dressed) of Muslims or any other religious group should be made as illegal as is ANTI-SEMITISM.

But that would be a 2007 legal act that I could quote to get you and the facists arrested immediately.

Nice thought to end on.

As i have posted many times before.i wish to state that violence from individuals or states against civilians is terror and any sane person shall condemn it.

also stated by me previously i asked the very simple question to anyone who might be tempted to violence.do you really think that british governments give a hoot about the well being of the british people,for if they had they would not have sent milions of young men into the wider world to kill and be killed for economic and political reasons,the government does care a iota, if anyone is so stupid to think their actions will have any effect on the british government.

now to what has occured in glasgow sky news reported the following two guys were pouring petrol over the car,they were throwing petrol cans out of the car,one of the guys had a suicide vest/belt,now that the smoke is clearing we are told there was no suicide vest/belt neither did anyone pour petrol on the vehicle.

from the comments of a pasenger inside the airport by the doors the following was ascertained he said i was by the doors as the que was long,i heard the sound of a loud impact i turned around and saw a vechicle has crashed into the airport building,it was not on fire at the time,i saw one gentleman get out of the car and then i saw smoke and a flame and i moved my self and children away from the door.

a witness from outside said the gentleman got out of the car and shut the door of the car as soon as he did this the car became engulfed in flames and the man was engulfed in fire and he started waving his arms and become uncontrobble exactly what happens when you are on fire and in extreme pain.

now from personal expirence i have seen many car fires and cars being burnt out living in the midlands,the car had no gas cylinders inside as the fire that was shown on tv was buring as a car with petrol iside burns ther was no exlposion but pops which are inline with petrol bursting and burning.

if the car had gas cyliners inside they would have blonn apart the vehicle as they would have acted as bomb shrapnel,the car was intact with its doors closed,if there had been cylinders the doors would have been blown apart or in the least part blown open.

lastly according to witneses the car was burning more at the back which is line with normal car fires as the petrol tanks are at the back.

since two people have been caught we should be able to get to the bottom of this and apprehend the people behind this if this was not a car accident.

i say once more to any one looney enough to comprehend using violence that it is th policy of this current government to use you as scapegoats to further take away the rights of people in this country,do not let yourselves be used if anyone approches you claiming to be a revert or new muslim and talks in any way about using violence he is most likely working for the security services tell him to take a walk or you will report him,you must rise above the bait.

lastly the security services in this country are experts at stitching people up as per the proof were irish people were locked up for decades using planted evidence and beatings to obtain confessions.

The police state is fast approaching and i wish to say to the general british public we had 30 years of I.R.A bombings in which 3500 people died and massive bombs ripped apart parts of manchester-birmingham-london-brighton and many other places but we never had this fear mongering and paranoia created,the laws are already there to use against criminals,do not let these control freaks take away your rights,you are more likely to be knocked down by a car then be involved in any terror incident.

Not to engage in petty squabbles but merely to clear my name, only for disagreeing with someone I may add, I say the following:

This following comment from JD suggests to others that I contribute to his idea of right-wing websites. Not only (apparently) do I contribute but I also rant! This is a clear and blatant lie:

"I am fed up with your confusions and rantings on right wing websites like jihadwatch and others"

The following statement, also suprisingly from JD states:

"you and facists who come to this site try to respond by stifling fair speech"

This is another clear and blatant attempt to smear me as a facist. Which is not true and is deeply distressing. Indeed, it is probably as offensive a remark as those which offend moderate muslims when being painted as terrorists - something I also personally abhor.

I will not stand by and allow myself and others to be abused on this site. However, I wish to make it clear that my committment to free and responsible speech remains steadfast - reagrdless of your smears and blatant lies.

Regards

Bunbury - if you do not frequent jihadwatch how do you know that it is rightwing. And what is your definition of right wing

Firstly, I do not have to justify myself to you in any way but let me clear up a couple of points you've raised...

I do not 'frequent' Jihadwatch, nor have I ever actually seen it. I have seen Islamophobia Watch and I merely took Johadwatch to be along a similar earnest vein. I apologise.

Secondly, right-wing, left-wing, liberal etc etc are INTERPRETATIONS of political ideology - just like Protestatism, Catholicism and radical islam, for example, are interpretations of various different religions. These interpretations are open-ended and mean different things to different people. What is the point in me giving you any interpretation of political ideology if I know for a fact you will challenge me on it for your own petty endgame?

I am a very liberal, typically left-wing postgraduate of international politics. I expect my interpretations are just as well, or perhaps not, formulated and justifiable.

Regards