The MCB have responded in a very balanced way and even given practical advice on what to do if anyone feels the need to do so.

The BMF have said and done NOTHING!

Oh yes ! “The MCB have responded in a very balanced way and even given practical advice on what to do if anyone feels the need to do so.”

MCB’s so called balanced response has come only as a result of pressure from some of its members and protests by two Muslim countries. Otherwise its leadership was not in a mood to do anything. After Ruth Kelly’s warning that the government would stop funding to Muslim organisations that did not fulfil its definition of moderation, MCB’s effort has been to please the government. So much so that its one time “Mujahid” Inayat Banglawal went, in his write up, in the Guardian, as far as saying that he regretted participating in the anti-blasphemous book of devil Rushdie and that the right to freedom meant “right to offend. ” (Sic)

One wonders how would Mr Banglawala justify his non-sense in the light of the hadith that one culd not be a Muslim unless he/ she held the Prophet (Peace be upon him) dearer than his/her parents, children and wealth.

Can Banglawala tolerate someone insulting his mother in the name of right to freedom of speech and expression? And if someone shook hand with this person, the insulter, and made friend with him what will Banglawala’s response be towards him?

In its AGM held last week when members pressed for action, MCB’s “moderate and enlightened” leadership hushed up the demand by its members to pass a resolution by saying that the conferring of knighthood to the iblis Rushdie was a non-event. What s shame!

One hardly needs to remind that it was this issue, the Defence of the Honour of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) because of which the MCB became a national body and a non-entity like Mr Sakrani became a "Sir". Therefore, it was only natural for an ordinary Muslim like myself to look towards the MCB and expect it to take a stand and Mr Sakranie to return his title. How shameful is it that a non-Muslim can have the courage of returning his title because he did not trust the Prime Minister but a Muslim sticking to his title at any cost and a national body caring more about its good name in Government than the pleasure of Allah?

Let me give an example in this regard. Khushwant Sing is a veteran Indian writer. Incidentally he happened to be Penguin's literary advisor in India when Rushdie's blasphemous Satanic Verses was published and had advised Penguin against publishing this filth.

Mr Singh is a self-confessed non practicing and even non-believing Sikh. According to him Sikhism is his culture not religion. He is known for writing against Sikh militancy. He has earned several prestigious literary awards and titles including the highest title of Padam Shri. However, in 1984 when late Prime Minister Mrs Indira Gandhi attacked holiest Sikh shrine, the Golden Temple, in Amritsar, Mr Singh returned all his titles. Does this have any lesson for us?

Why is BMF silent? MPACUK should write to them asking for their stance on this.

As a supporter of MPACUK and a Barelvi I feel that MPACUK is buying into the propaganda of Islam's enemies that Barelvis are at the left of a spectrum of political activism and "jihad" moving from non-violent to violence.

I am not sure why Muslims need to continue to be apologetic about Osama Bin Laden's "violent" jihad after the tyrannical oppression of Muslims by Western Colonial stooges such as the Shah of Iran in 1956 who removed the secular elected Prime Minister Dr Mossadegh Hussain for nationalising the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company thus prompting the Islamic Revolution in 1979 to Mahmoud Abbas who fired an elected Hamas government last week to Pervaiz Musharraf Pakistan's Chief of Army Staff who is trying to immerse a popular uprising against him in blood, but after all does not MPACUK promote non-violent jihad?

All that we Muslim peoples can try to do is throw off the yoke of Zionist occupation by rising up against US and UK appointed tinpot murderous dictators and they may succeed sometimes as has happened in Palestine , Iran , Lebanon and Malaysia despite the tanks, jets, missiles and propaganda of the world's jewry.

Other times these attempts by Muslim nations at gaining freedom from America's slavery have been less successful as happened in Saudi Arabia (when the Americans murdered King Faisal in 1975) or Pakistan where the Americans murdered General Zia in 1988).

What the Al-Qaeda generation has proven is that Muslim political will can overcome Zionist US and UK Imperialism whether the Muslims are Sunnis, Shias , Barelvis or Deobandis ...

What I am trying to say is that blaming Barelvis can only go so far ...May be the fault, dear Brutus, is not our stars but ourselves that we Muslims are underlings of the Zionist butchers .

On the contrary. If you read Urdu you will know that the front page of 'The Jang'newspaper featured a big article from the BMF Chairman Khurshid Ahmed the day after Rushdie's knighthood - stongly critisising the award. Khurshid Ahmed who is also the deputy chair of the CRE demanded to know from the government why the proper Race Relations legislation was not followed during this process of selection which was established to assess the impact of such decisions on race relations in the community.
The article is a balanced and pragmatic response.
The BMF have also made their condemnation of the knighthood clear on various media - I heard them on Five Live the other day.

Salhuddin,

I am not sure I have understood your posting. Would you care to rephrase in a simpler English that is not so cryptic and glorifying of terrorists?

Thanks.
JD

Also, I didnt actually know about the BMF - I just checked out their website. Strange. No...weird....very weird. But not wonderful.

As for the SMC, I guess, they must be waiting for more Terrorists and criminals to come to their organisation. You know, the like of that Ed Hussain character who put his name to a book written by Labour Spin doctors - The Islamist I think its called.

I hear that even Tony Blair (WAR CRIMINAL) and inventor of the SMC even wrote some parts of The Islamist himself.

No wonder you have to be a lying deciever to enter the SMC.

What a load of crap! What can anyone do!! Its funny how misers seek every chance to create infighting amongst Muslims! It's absurd to think that any Muslim supports this knighthood b they the SMC or Muslim Forum or the likes of MPACK. These comments probably will not even be approved. So judge dredd why aren't you in the SMC? Don't tell me buttter would not melt in your mouth, get a grip and act like a human if you aint muslim you coward.

hameedullah,

Calm down.

What is your point?

hameedullah,

I take it you are unable to clarify the blurb in your last posting despite my request.

Let me spell out the points again for you:

1)It is very suspicious that Labour, under their WAR CRIMINAL leader, Tony Blair have formed divisive muslim organisations like the SMC and I am not sure for now but possibly also the BMF.

2) Ed Hussain is a self confessed Thug, Terrorist and criminal who was paid by the Labour government while they exiled him from his terrorist activities to "teach english for the BMC".

3) Ed Hussain put his name to the book "The Islamist" which was written by Labour Spin Doctors, and the word on the grapevine is that even Tony Blair the WAR CRIMINAL added some master touches to the writing of the book "The Islamist".

4) Ed Hussain alleges that he is now "reformed" and is coming out for the government sanctioned trojan horse, the SMC.

Now, I have spelt out things point by point so that you are able to put ticks and crosses to points you agree and disagree with so that a "debate" can be entered into.

What "being misers" has to do with anything is really beyond me.

If anything the SMC are well funded by the labour government of WAR CRIMINAL Blair.

About being Human: once you can enter into a sensical debate, I think it will be clear to see for all who is human and muslim and who is not.

Guys, its just a book, everyday my beliefs (atheism) are ridiculed,countless books, tv shows and lectures on the evils of secularism. Now have you seen masses of atheists protesting? NO, so get over it.

Thomas, you are suffering from that western disease, that when a Muslim expresses his/her freedom of expression (in this case by airing views on a discussion board), you try to say that it is a an uncalled for complaint that should not be made and the "complainant" should get "over it" blah blah blah.

This is not about ridicule.

It is about FALSE Muslim Organisations set up by the control freak labour government.

It is about a book called The Islamist that was written by Labour Spin Doctors and signed by Ed Hussain.

Don't know about you Thomas, but that strikes chords of unfairness and wrong doing. Then again if Tony Blair got away with the blood of almost a million murdered iraqis on this hands in his illegal war and is now seeking the Catholic Church to protect his Nazi past, then.....well.....I am sure I should take your advice and get over it!

Imagine, if someone wrote a book saying that the author committed deliberate and intentional crimes by engaging his country in illegal wars, brought in anti-democratic laws in the name of terror to have greater control, and set up numerous "ENQIRIES" and "SPECIAL REPORTS" to justify his governments illegal policies. Imagine if someone also wrote that the author set up special enquiry panels that were in the public interest (but were not), imagine if that someone also said that the author gave titles of "SIR" and "LORD" etc in exchange for slush funds and to divide global community relations.

IMAGINE IF THAT SOMEONE USED THEIR "SECRET SERVICES" AND COERCED TONY BLAIR TO SIGN THAT BOOK?

What would that make the real author and the war criminal Tony Blair and all the false flag institutions?

Would that make Tony Blair (or Ed Hussain) REFORMED? NO!

Would that make the false flag organisations sincere in their missions? NO!

Jude dredd how about you take up a job with a tv channel to host a programme?

It's not me who needs to calm down but your goodself. Oh please stop throwing baseless accusations, which really hold no ground.

My point is pretty clear perhaps your reading skills are defective?

I do not feel the need to answer your falsified and assumptive accusations against my fellow Muslims. However let me see thios through;

1)It is very suspicious that Labour, under their WAR CRIMINAL leader, Tony Blair have formed divisive muslim organisations like the SMC and I am not sure for now but possibly also the BMF.

----------------------------

Yes it would be suspicious if you are inclined towards other orgs. Your proof please for your accusations? And please do not copy and paste chunks of text from opposeing organisations, or extremist inclined Muslims who have a completly diff interpretation to islam. If you can't, well.... Let's say for a minute these organisations are established under Tony Blair, Why the hoo haa with the episode of Rushdie? (Bearing in mind every Muslim opposes this and to be suspicious of other Muslims in itself is a sin, and assumeing you are British everything here works by proof not emotions and petty tantrums.

-----------------------------------
2) Ed Hussain is a self confessed Thug, Terrorist and criminal who was paid by the Labour government while they exiled him from his terrorist activities to "teach english for the BMC".
-----------------------------

And??

------------------------------
3) Ed Hussain put his name to the book "The Islamist" which was written by Labour Spin Doctors, and the word on the grapevine is that even Tony Blair the WAR CRIMINAL added some master touches to the writing of the book "The Islamist".
-------------------------------
And what has to do with Rushdie? Your not seeking to pick on any opportunity to pick faults in other Muslims are you? Tut Tut

------------------------------
4) Ed Hussain alleges that he is now "reformed" and is coming out for the government sanctioned trojan horse, the SMC.
-----------------------------

Ok its pretty clear by now to all, this is a silly attempt to try and discredit organsisations established for Moderate Muslims and not to highlight the issue of Rushdie, hence continueing this convo is a waste of time.

-------------------------------
"Now, I have spelt out things point by point so that you are able to put ticks and crosses to points you agree and disagree with so that a "debate" can be entered into.

What "being misers" has to do with anything is really beyond me."

------------------------------------

It has alot to do with idiots who try and create infighting amongst Muslims, the need is for unity and not division, yet ignorant beings like yourself continue to spew forth the hate prescribed to you from the institue of your home and social circles.
--------------------------------

If anything the SMC are well funded by the labour government of WAR CRIMINAL Blair.
----------------

Dude like i said your assumptions and that of others really are not worth anyones time. Infact after hearing your rant i pledge to support the SMC and other Moderate Muslim orgs working to better relationships in British society and working for a peaceful tommorrow.

---------------------------------
About being Human: once you can enter into a sensical debate, I think it will be clear to see for all who is human and muslim and who is not.
----------------------------

Sorry i should have said Robocop with a name like that.

Never mind.

I have said my lot thank you

Regards

Does anyone know the exact words used by the chair of the BMF at the cambridge meeting?
As a Barelvi, I apologise to all my fellow muslims. The BMF played on MCB's snobbery towards us poor and underpriveledged (relatively) desi's. They know that most Barelvis get most of their information from the mosque (controlled!) and the BBC.
The BMF was set up by certain people in and around the cabinet Office. If you look at the OBE's and the CBE's with muslim names, you will spot the traitors.
These quislings must despair; they cannot even betray muslims without being exposed virtually straight away.

I am a sufi and believe passionately that the 'sufi muslim council'and the 'bmf' need to make their voices heard if they are to maintain any credability in the eyes of the Muslim community. if they roll over or stay silent we know what their true agenda's are.

come on guys now it counts.

Hey hameedullah,

maybe I shall take up your suggestion to host a TV program about divisive Muslims and muslim organisation like the SMC that you claim to represent.

I would like to congratulate you on calming down and beginning to form coherent sentences to convey your alleged viewpoints.

Firstly, the points I have made seem to have angered you considerably and I wonder what it is in my posting about the SMC that has pulled your trigger.

You called my postings “crap” didn’t you?

I wonder if it is because you are already part of the Sufi Muslim Council.

Now let us focus on the divisive SMC. You may have missed all the hype about the SMC criticising all the Muslim organisations including the PASSIVE MCB. If this is your idea of supporting Muslim unity, then you are very very mislead and your views must be as Neo-con and war mongering as the SMC and their masters in the Muslim-Murdering Blairite circles..

The SMC DO NOT REPRESENT Muslims on this planet apart from you obviously and a handful of underground “minority” who are silent.

SMC is a Blairite/Bush/Straw sanctioned body that divides Muslims and tries to take away Muslim support form the established Muslim organisations like MCB and MPACUK.
The SMC have links directly to War Criminal George Bush and War Criminal Tony Blair, yet you support the SMC?

Were you on a sabbatical when the majority of Muslims and Muslim organisations condemned this SMC body as a divisive organisation?

You must be the kind of person that Miriam Nemesis the leader of the ex-Muslims of Britain would appeal to a lot.

Please read some facts below and on the link I have provided:

Now you probably cannot see the link here, but please consider your position in supporting an organisation like the SMC that is supported by the likes of Mad Mel, Fascist Daniel Pipes, Nick Cohen and all those other Islamophobes.
It was the extreme right fascist Zionist think tank, the Nixon centre that advocated using Sufism to attack mainstream Islam and it was the Nixon centre policies that started of the SMC and the mother Sufi council in the US.
REAL Sufi Scholars and Imams have stated that there is no Islamic Spiritualism associated with the SMC.
Shaykh Hisham Kabbani of the Mother Sufi Council of the US is a supporter of UK SMC and also a supporter of Zionist sanctioned murders of innocent Palestinian Muslim women and children
Haras Rafiq, the SMC leader associates and gives his support to the Labour Friends of Israel MPs.
One of the SMC’s spiritual leaders, a young lady called Zeyno, is actually a good friend of the Uzbek leader who is killing numerous Muslims.

Please click on the link below to find out what a divisive Trojan horse, the SMC really is:

http://sufimuslimcouncil.blogspot.com/

If you still support the SMC after reading all the evidence, then I pray that God guides you.

What has this got to do with Sir Satan you ask? Well the fact that the SMC’s supreme spiritual leader, Tony Blair the WAR CRIMINAL handed the “Sir” title to Satan Rushdie is completely lost on you. Blair funds SMC and hands a “Sir” title to Satan Rushdie who is a known for his venomous attacks on the fold of Islam.


So Hameedullah, it sounds from your posting that you are a sympathiser of the SMC?

Well, you tell me what that makes you to the majority of Muslims in the UK?

The article says barelvis should stand up and be counted.
but what is a barelvi as i have heard of hanafis being followers of the school of Imam Abu Hanifa but not what barelvis are.
is this something the mosque prayer leaders follow or something that is used as slang to describe someone.

"maybe I shall take up your suggestion to host a TV program about divisive Muslims and muslim organisation like the SMC that you claim to represent."
-------------------------------------
Don't get your hopes up son, people will be requesting to have their Tvs taken away to the scarp yard. And please who gives you any right to assume on my behalf and falsely say that i represent the SMC under British laws thats slander, my old boy so please dont get carried away..
--------------------------------------

"I would like to congratulate you on calming down and beginning to form coherent sentences to convey your alleged viewpoints."
----------------------------

Lol- Yes theres a saying "We see faults in others that are ever present in ourselves"

--------------------------------
Firstly, the points I have made seem to have angered you considerably and I wonder what it is in my posting about the SMC that has pulled your trigger.
-----------------------------------

Lol Any rightful Muslim, would be offended by maloons attacking and trying to discredit and disunite Muslims irrelevent of what organisation they belong too, and obviously please do not try and twist your agenda on to me. Your silly ridicule is not going to work.
--------------------------
You called my postings crap didnt you?
------------------------

Well in all honesty they are really not worth anyones breath. I mean your hate and underlying agenda is clear and after having searched through some of your posts its pretty clear you seem to have a long standing agenda esp the SMC. Now i wonder why that is? In all honesty i could'nt care less.
-----------------------------------

I wonder if it is because you are already part of the Sufi Muslim Council.
---------------------------------

Oh please, don't flatter yourself with your assumptions. Do you know how much of a sin it is to suspect a muslim assumeing you are a fellow Muslim.Astagfirullah. But yes i may take the membership of the SMC if it is on offer and it brings up inline with nicompoops like yourself. Who only know how to mudsling.
--------------------------------

Now let us focus on the divisive SMC. You may have missed all the hype about the SMC criticising all the Muslim organisations including the PASSIVE MCB. If this is your idea of supporting Muslim unity, then you are very very mislead and your views must be as Neo-con and war mongering as the SMC and their masters in the Muslim-Murdering Blairite circles..
---------------------------

I cant help but laugh at your accusations alhmadulilah you will reap what you sow someday, i no longer wish to waste my time with people who will only make falsfied accusations because they oppose your opinion. Your obviously a member of the MCB its become clear or perhaps your biased, please do not drag me into your poltical game, i am too good to stoop to your level. ;-)

--------------------------------
The SMC DO NOT REPRESENT Muslims on this planet apart from you obviously and a handful of underground minority who are silent.
---------------------

Neither do the MCB or nay other org so put a sock in it.

-------------------------

SMC is a Blairite/Bush/Straw sanctioned body that divides Muslims and tries to take away Muslim support form the established Muslim organisations like MCB and MPACUK.
------------------------

Honestly only people i ever see divideing is people like yourself who sit on their their backsides trying to pick faults on other mmsulims most probably becauise its out of your inclinations and envy. MCB and MPACK do not represent Muslims im sorry to say..come to the real world. They have about the same amount of ppl supporting them as any other org.

---------------------------
The SMC have links directly to War Criminal George Bush and War Criminal Tony Blair, yet you support the SMC?
-----------------------------------

So? you have links to blair too assumeing u live in the uk? You war monger! Lol what does throwing stones in the dark prove! Get a grip! in all honesty i never supported the SMC before coming across these forum board but yes i must admit i favour them more so, if i am to come into opposition with arm chair jihadists like yourself.
--------------------------------

Were you on a sabbatical when the majority of Muslims and Muslim organisations condemned this SMC body as a divisive organisation?
----------------------------------

No infact after studying some of the stuff on net its only the extremists and illiterates opposeing. So lets not start talking on behalf of the majority of Muslims, honestly i do not know why you assume so much..
----------------------------

You must be the kind of person that Miriam Nemesis the leader of the ex-Muslims of Britain would appeal to a lot.
----------------------------
Lol and you must be the type, fond of reading yasmmin ali bhais articles. Do me a favour? Take a hint kid...
------------------------------------

Please read some facts below and on the link I have provided:

Now you probably cannot see the link here, but please consider your position in supporting an organisation like the SMC that is supported by the likes of Mad Mel, Fascist Daniel Pipes, Nick Cohen and all those other Islamophobes.
It was the extreme right fascist Zionist think tank, the Nixon centre that advocated using Sufism to attack mainstream Islam and it was the Nixon centre policies that started of the SMC and the mother Sufi council in the US.
REAL Sufi Scholars and Imams have stated that there is no Islamic Spiritualism associated with the SMC.
Shaykh Hisham Kabbani of the Mother Sufi Council of the US is a supporter of UK SMC and also a supporter of Zionist sanctioned murders of innocent Palestinian Muslim women and children
Haras Rafiq, the SMC leader associates and gives his support to the Labour Friends of Israel MPs.
One of the SMCs spiritual leaders, a young lady called Zeyno, is actually a good friend of the Uzbek leader who is killing numerous Muslims.

Please click on the link below to find out what a divisive Trojan horse, the SMC really is:

http://sufimuslimcouncil.blogspot.com/

If you still support the SMC after reading all the evidence, then I pray that God guides you.
-----------------------------

None of the above is proven its all petty attempts by cowards within orgs who are afraid to identify themselves, because they do not want muslims to think bad of them or there biasness becoming prevailant, and fear of loseing face amongst the communtiy.

And please i do not consider wahabism to be mainstream islam.. I did say do not copy and paste me boreing stuff that i have read, or baseless accusations, i guess my request went on deaf ears. I had read most stuff on net and its all assumptive much like your posts im beginning to think your not the author behind all that are you?
---------------------------------

What has this got to do with Sir Satan you ask? Well the fact that the SMCs supreme spiritual leader, Tony Blair the WAR CRIMINAL handed the Sir title to Satan Rushdie is completely lost on you. Blair funds SMC and hands a Sir title to Satan Rushdie who is a known for his venomous attacks on the fold of Islam.
------------------------------

Erm ok i think i knew that?... Perhaps English is not the language for communication here? Please read my points instead of just argueing for no apparent reason like i said any Muslim opposes the title of "sir" being attributed to this guy, and to think that Muslims have a hand and support such action be they from whatever org it would be dumb founded by the coward who makes such accusations. Either present proof or shut the trap.. simple.. We are all frustarted and taking it out on fellow muslims is not the solution if it has not sunk in your head yet?
--------------------------

So Hameedullah, it sounds from your posting that you are a sympathiser of the SMC?

-----------------------------

Yes Alhamdulilah i am from today..
---------------------------

Well, you tell me what that makes you to the majority of Muslims in the UK?
-------------------------------

Lol and who gives yu the right to assume anything>?

Say what you will in abusing me,
My silence is an answer to the scoundrel 
I am not devoid of an answer, but:
It is not necessary for lions to answer the dogs.

ciao

Bottom line is:

Irrelevent of what organisation you belong to, you should stop throwing around baseless accusations. If the SMC or any other org has been established under the government or past governments, it does not go to prove that they support the agenda prescribed by the government/establishment or support the wars/oppression in any part of the world. And you and others you should stop adding two and two and making your own assumptive equations.

To the point of Rashdie, there is so much anyone can do be it a individual or a established org, we can all go on the news and protest write articles make our vocal presence felt and how we as Modrate Muslims feel, but the reality is will anyone care, will anyone have interest, The Queen should take a listen to her people as a sovereign and revert her decsion and revoke Slaman rush-to-die. As long as people like judge judie above exist, efforts of Muslims will always be dealt blows and thawrted. We are in dire need of unity, and progression in our communties. We need to form a united voice, and as long as people see themselves as different from their fellow muslims and just want to get one over them because of their seat or reputation, well we stand no chance!

UNITED WE STAND!
DIVIDED WE FALL!!

LONG LIVE EVERY MUSLIM ORG!
GOD BLESS THE SMC AND MAY THEY EXCEL IN THEIR WORK ALONG WITH ALL THE OTHER ORGS MPACK TO MCB GOD GUIDE US ALL

Hameedullah Francis,

Lets just get one thing straight, please count the number of insults you have made towards me and then any from me to you, before finding any rights in your allegation that I have insulted you. If you do ever re-read anything you write you will find that the insults have been pouring in from you, whilst you have been describing yourself as some sort of a Lion fighting a “dog, nincompoop, Robocop, scoundrel & coward”?!?!?

And then you want to sue me? You are funny. Please feel free to sue me…….. or eat dust as they say……to wanabe’s

The more I read of your name-calling and non-attempt at a rational debate, the more I find commonalities with evangelical or qadiani arguments.

Anyway, let us get to the debate at hand, and I will start by pointing out that you have still not counteracted any of the points I have made with a valid rebuttal.

You have simply stated that you “HAVE SEEN THESE POINTS BEFORE” and that they are “petty comments by organisations who are afraid to identify themselves”.

Now that is really pushing the truth a little too far even for your quotations so far. The MCB and MPACUK are out there in the public domain as are the people like Craig Roberts who have highlighted the NECONSERVATIVE LINKS TO THE SMC.

None of these are so called “Wahabis”. Ed Hussain who signed the book written by WAR CRIMINAL TONY BLAIR AND HIS CRONIES was, and still is however a Wahabi – and a misguided one at that for he is a thug and a terrorist. Hameedullah, at least know your targets before you allege them to be Wahabis.

So, have you joined the SMC yet? Are you now a fully fledged member of the divisive Trojan horse organisation set up by WAR CRIMINAL BLAIR just like the brits set up the Qadiani’s? Oh…..I am not insulting you am I ……incase you feel that Qadiani’s are within the fold of Islam and not set up by the imperial has-beens.

Your knowledge of Islam is highly susceptible. Let me refresh your memory:

I said: “I wonder if it is because you are already a part of the SMC”

To which you replied: “Oh please don’t flatter yourself with your assumptions. Do you know it is a sin to suspect a Muslim, assuming you are a fellow Muslim”

I believe that in your last posting you said yourself you were going to join the SMC. It is not an assumption but a question based on your remark. But I guess, the way you have been answering the points with complete disregard for facts means that you hardly even remember what you have already posted.

What have I then suspected you of? You are really funny.

The SMC do not represent any Muslims anywhere. The MCB represent the majority of orthodox Muslims and older generation Muslims, as you maybe able to see from their members unless of course you want to dispute that to give your SMC some more ammunition. But dispute only if you want to show your disingenuousness because you will be fighting facts in the public domain.

MPACUK and some other Muslim Youth organisations that you would describe as “non-moderate” represent jointly the Muslim youth and new ideas among the Muslims.

Anyway, I would like to hear from you on the links between:

SMC and the NEOCONSERVATIVES,
SMC and Terrorist Thug Ed Hussain
SMC and Israel
SMC and right wing US think tanks
SMC and Blair/Straw/Reid
SMC and non-Muslim organisations
I would especially like to hear from you on the links between the SMC and MUSLIM MAINSTREAM ORGANISATIONS.

I can understand if you don’t come back with logical points and facts or even if you don’t come back at all to stomach your allegations of what represents mainstream Muslims and what represents divisive Muslims like the SMC.

Deleted: Please do not place lines in the posts.

MOD: I THINK YOU MEAN UNDERSCORES WHEN YOU SAY LINES, AS THAT IS WHAT I PUT IN IN A MANNER SIMILAR TO HF'S ABOVE POSTINGS. I AM SORRY IF THAT IS ANTI-SEMITIC AND I FULLY WITHDRAW MY LINES.

"hameedullah francis:
Bottom line is
Irrelevent of what organisation you belong to, you should stop throwing around baseless accusations."

THESE ARE NOT BASELESS ACCUSATIONS. AS I HAVE ASKED YOU BEFORE, PLEASE SUPPLY EVIDENCE THAT SMC ARE NOT A TROJAN HORSE ORGAHNISATION.


"If the SMC or any other org has been established under the government or past governments, it does not go to prove that they support the agenda prescribed by the government/establishment or support the wars/oppression in any part of the world."

LIKE THE QADIANIS IN IMPERIAL TIMES?

"And you and others you should stop adding two and two and making your own assumptive equations."

TWO PLUS TWO GIVES A FOUR AND IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS DEBATE IT IS A VERY PAINFUL TRUTH FOR THE SMC.

"To the point of Rashdie, there is so much anyone can do be it a individual or a established org, we can all go on the news and protest write articles make our vocal presence felt and how we as Modrate Muslims feel, but the reality is will anyone care, will anyone have interest, The Queen should take a listen to her people as a sovereign and revert her decsion and revoke Slaman rush-to-die."

LET US SEE THE SMC MAKE SOME PUBLIC NOISE IN THE MEDIA ABOUT THIS - NOT IN PAPERS LIKE THE JANG BUT IN THE PAPERS IN ENGLISH.

"As long as people like judge judie above exist,"

STILL CARRYING ON WITH THE NAME-CALLING AS A WAY OF "DEBATING" AGAINST THE POSITION OF THE TROJAN HORSE SMC.

...."efforts of Muslims will always be dealt blows and thawrted. We are in dire need of unity, and progression in our communties."

DISBAND THE SMC AND JOIN THE EXISTENT MUSLIM ORGANISATIONS THAT REPRESENT THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY AND NOT ONE LIKE THE SMC THAT REPRESENTS TONY BLAIRS MUSLIM-MURDERING GOVERNMENT.

......"We need to form a united voice, and as long as people see themselves as different from their fellow muslims and just want to get one over them because of their seat or reputation, well we stand no chance!"

AS IT HAS BEEN POINTED OUT TO BEFORE, DISBAND THE SMC AND JOIN A MUSLIM ORGANISATION THAT REPRESENTS THE MUSLIMS IF YOU WANT TO SHOW A UNIFIED VOICE.

.....HF:"UNITED WE STAND!
DIVIDED WE FALL!!

LONG LIVE EVERY MUSLIM ORG!
GOD BLESS THE SMC AND MAY THEY EXCEL IN THEIR WORK ALONG WITH ALL THE OTHER ORGS MPACK TO MCB GOD GUIDE US ALL"...



SMC HAVE GRACED US WITH A GOVERNMENTAL CREATED NEO-CON INSTIGATED DIVIDE. THE ONLY SENSIBLE THING YOU HAVE SAID IS THE LAST 4 LINES. IT SHOWS THERE IS HOPE AGAINST THE LIKES OF THE SMC.

Bottom Line is HF,

That in your name-calling debating tactics above you have not provided a shred of evidence that the SMC are not a Trojan Horse.

If these kind of Muslim Organisations (SMC's etc) really want to show the Muslims of the UK that they represent the Muslim people then they have to stop rubbing shoulders with people in government whose policies have killed Millions of muslims. They have to stop taking all the government funds that should go to the Muslim Organisations that have existed for decades. They have to start representing the people, and if people care rightly that Sir Satan Rushdie offended the fold of Islam, and divided UK and Global Community relations, then SMC need to be VERY VERY VOCAL about the cause of the offence and divisions.

That is the bottom line whether you like it or not.

Haha-

I think your final contradictory statement sums it all up, i do not need to rebute your pathetic attempts to discredit Muslims.

I quote you;

"If these kind of Muslim Organisations (SMC's etc) really want to show the Muslims of the UK that they represent the Muslim people then they have to stop rubbing shoulders with people in government whose policies have killed Millions of muslims. They have to stop taking all the government funds that should go to the Muslim Organisations that have existed for decades."

Please get out of cuckooland, you would know that any citizen living anywhere, would have to abide by the laws of the land. I think, your attempts to tarnish are baseless and futile, so get a grip and stop embaressing yourself please don't get ahead of yourself.. And for all those reading please do read and re-read the above statement of Judge Judie, He says on one hand that The Smc should stop takling money and then on the other he maintains that other older established orgs should be given this funding, now i wonder who these older orgs are LOL YOUR BIAS IS CLEAR AS DAY! DO NOT WASTE MY TIME LIKE I SAID I AM NOT devoid OF ANSWERS and neither am i going to go on a ego trip, all you have done is made false and assumptive points which really have no ground because they are supported and promoted my orgs you seem to be promoteing from the depths of your bedroom.

Take hike, well if you are going to continue attributeing false info to Muslims including myself obviously you will get taunted and under sharia there is a much worser punishment of lying about Muslims assumeing you are a Muslim so please..

Debate? Huh please do not flatter yourself.. A debate is with people who can establish and show facts not people runon their bias and emotions.

RIP

hmmm, let's see, who else can we blame for this knighthood.....? What about the shia's, ahmadi's or perhaps we could break it down into madhab's, who do we feel like vilifying today in order to create more disunity, how about the malilki's......

HF,

So far you have only name called and abused and used the word "flatter" too many times.

Are you only going to come back with lots of smoke to deflect form the argument that the SMC are a divisive body that is a TROJAN Horse and should not even exist or at least, not have the support of any Muslims.

You have still not provided us with answers to the questions which I will requote to you incase you have selective reading skills:


"Anyway, I would like to hear from you on the links between:

SMC and the NEOCONSERVATIVES,
SMC and Terrorist Thug Ed Hussain
SMC and Israel
SMC and right wing US think tanks
SMC and Blair/Straw/Reid
SMC and non-Muslim organisations
I would especially like to hear from you on the links between the SMC and MUSLIM MAINSTREAM ORGANISATIONS."

I am still waiting Ham?????!?!!?

Please could you enlighten us with your responses to the above points.


Oh and by the way,


The SMC WAS CREATED FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF DIVERTING MONEY THAT MUSLIM TAX PAYERS HAVE PAID AND THAT WAS EARMARKED FOR THOSE MUSLIM ORGANISATIONS THAT HAVE EXISTED FOR DECADES.


THIS IS WHY THE SMC SHOULD DISBAND AND ASK THE GOVERNMENT TO GIVE THEIR LARGE CHUNK OF FUNDING TO OTHER MAINSTREAM MUSLIM ORGANISATIONS.

OH, and amongst your incoherent personal attacks and rantings, there is one thing you did get right again: I am biased against GOVERNMENT TROJAN HORSES like the SMC.

Ham, for you to quote the Sharia off the cuff like that shows your true colors!


Ham, I am here to post my views against Trojan horses like the SMC and their false flag supporters like you. So, don't jump for joy about your RIP statement and "take a hike".

I am here to point out that the SMC is a TROJAN HORSE that is HIGH-JACKING GOVERNMENT FUNDS that were earmarked for Mainstream Muslim organisations.

The SMC is a Blair Regime "Stick" with which to beat the likes of MCB and other independent minded Muslim organisations into submission to the demands of the pro-Zionist Blair Regime.

You are also right about the fact that you are incapable of debating with me and have to resort to personal attacks.

However, take a look at the above points as they will haunt you on this thread - stare at them and come back with your own facts....


Time to waste?!?!?!?!?
Do you have a train to catch?

HF,

Here is the list of signatories who have made a stand against the Blair Regime's divisive tactics in Nighting sir satan:

Ali al-Hadithi (Federation of Student Islamic Societies)
Bashir Maan (Muslim Council of Scotland)
Dr Abdul Wahid (Hizb ut-Tahrir)
Dr Ahmad ar-Rawi (Muslim Association of Britain)
Dr Mamoun Mobayad (Northern Ireland Muslim Family Association)
Dr Muhammad Abdul-Bari (Muslim Council of Britain)
Massoud Shadjareh (Islamic Human Rights Commission)
Maulana Faiz Siddiqui (Muslim Action Committee)
Muhammad Sawalha (British Muslim Initiative)
Saleem Qidwai (Muslim Council of Wales)
Sheikh Abdulhossein Moezi (Islamic Centre of England)
Sheikh Shafiq-ur-Rahman (United Kingdom Islamic Mission)


Now, I certainly cannot see the TROJAN HORSE SMC here.

OhBut then again, I guess you don't consider this to be a fact. Perhaps you should stop fantasizing and wake up to reality?

The reality is that the SMC is a TROJAN HORSE.

Zoy,

Only the Zionists and their False Flag devices.

I mean, next we will have Ham telling us that MEMRI is an independent translation agency and not a Zionist Israeli Goverment Intelligence Agency.

There is no unified brelvi voice...as their is no unfied muslim voice. What are brelvis gna do by standing up?? What have the other ' saved denominations' done as blocs of themselves in the name of their denomination??

Yuo guys are loonies, by singling out one sect (today) nothing is achived, we need to work as MUSLIMS and make our base wide ranging and ALL encompassing..you cant build realtionships by shking fists at people.

No denomination makes press relses...its people who stand up and get involved some people form politcal groups..but ud hardly call these gropus and offshoots seriously islamic..bit like MPAC really.

Stop the shock tactics and build from the ground up..its easier to hate than to love (he says whilst smelling flowersa and dancing in green feilds)

BRAVO, BRELVIS REPEAT HISTORY, ITS IN THEIR BLOOD WORKING FOR THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT IN INDIA THROUGHOUT HISTORY AND NOW IN UK, SCUMS!!!! SCUMS, CHICCO, HOW CAN A GUY LIKE CHICCO EVEN REPRESENT A SUFI COUNSIL, HAS THE BRELVIS GONE MAAAAAAAAAAAD!!!!!! WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT HAVE THEY DONE APART FROM CREAT BIDDAH AND PUTTING XMAS DECORATIONS IN THE MOSQUE, HAPPY XMAS YOU FOOLS!!!! WAKE UP!!!!

Ignoreing the rants;

If anyone wishes to attend the protest outside parliament house, on Monday 2nd July at 1:30pm against the Knighting of Salman Rushdie. please feel free to do so, in which members of the SMC will also take hopefully the MCB can be as vocal.

Hopefully we see our armchair jihadis and governmental funding leeches down there too? Oops guess they will be stuck, in their bedrooms spreading crying about funding and spreading false and malicious info, well what can we expect from thugs and fundamentalists pretty obvious from the list presented above. Actions speak louder then words, in this case the dog keeps barking, let it bark who cares? Lol

Good luck..

Ignoreing the rants;

If anyone wishes to attend the protest outside parliament house, on Monday 2nd July at 1:30pm against the Knighting of Salman Rushdie. please feel free to do so, in which members of the SMC will also take be taking part. Hopefully the MCB can be as vocal insteaD of spreading disunity .

Hopefully i will see our armchair jihadis and the whingers of governmental funding which they wanted to leech but instead we find them here crying about funding.. Why do you want funding to set up schools that go against and preach against the traditional islam? Oops guess they will be stuck, in their bedrooms spreading lies and crying about fundinge and malicious info, well what can we expect from thugs and fundamentalists pretty obvious from the list presented above. Actions speak louder then words, in this case the dog keeps barking, let it bark who cares? Lol

Good luck..

The dude he just posted the British and brailvi connection dude its people like you who divided the ummah then and even today its morons like you and Judge Judie who divide the ummah hence dividing our efforts so why don't you go and choke on a pretzel?

I am still waiting for some one to explain what a barelvi is.
if by what anti-barelvi means is pakistani-indian and bangladeshi muslims then i think he might be mistaken.
you need to have the courage and fortitude to build a mosque in the first place.
as for anti-barelvis rant i think he might turn out not to be a muslim himself as those who label others very quickly are the ones with defects themselves.

Ham,

Still "wasting your time" I see then, making your false flag rants one after the other.

As I have asked, could you kindly provide us with the links between SMC and:

SMC and the NEOCONSERVATIVES,
SMC and Terrorist Thug Ed Hussain
SMC and Israel
SMC and right wing US think tanks
SMC and Blair/Straw/Reid
SMC and non-Muslim organisations
I would especially like to hear from you on the links between the SMC and MUSLIM MAINSTREAM ORGANISATIONS."

You are not avoiding the questions are you? That wouldn't be like you at all now would it.

Also, you still have not told me where the SMC are in the FORMAL protest lodged against Sir Satan where the following organisations have put their signature:

Ali al-Hadithi (Federation of Student Islamic Societies)
Bashir Maan (Muslim Council of Scotland)
Dr Abdul Wahid (Hizb ut-Tahrir)
Dr Ahmad ar-Rawi (Muslim Association of Britain)
Dr Mamoun Mobayad (Northern Ireland Muslim Family Association)
Dr Muhammad Abdul-Bari (Muslim Council of Britain)
Massoud Shadjareh (Islamic Human Rights Commission)
Maulana Faiz Siddiqui (Muslim Action Committee)
Muhammad Sawalha (British Muslim Initiative)
Saleem Qidwai (Muslim Council of Wales)
Sheikh Abdulhossein Moezi (Islamic Centre of England)
Sheikh Shafiq-ur-Rahman (United Kingdom Islamic Mission)

Also, Ham, are you accusing mainstream muslims of being "Thugs and Terrorists"? And are you accusing the MCB of spreading disunity?

You sound day by day like those "Intelligence Officers" from the Zionist Israeli Falsification group called MEMRI.

As you say, "actions speak louder than words", so why doesnt the TROJAN HORSE SMC, put its name to the formal protest and also while we are at it, why doesnt the SMC condem the Israeli Murderers of Innocent Muslim women, children and old men in the Israeli concentration camps known as Gaza and West Bank?

Answer that Ham.

Oh and by the way, could you kindly send a link to your SMC organised formal protest on Monday outside parliament house?

Is it on the Trojan Horse SMC's website, or is it on the some Murdering Zionist Israeli website?

Any Muslim Brelvi's care to offer their own definition of their own ideas as requested?

I must state for the record, that I have nothing against Muslim Brelvi's but I do have everything against the TROJAN HORSE SMC which doesn't represent any Muslim believers on planet earth.

SMC represents the like of the Zionazi Israelis, Bush, Blair and the like.

The Anti Brelvi rant above should be deleted by the mods.

Apart from the swearing, it looks like a a very obvious false flag by a Zionist SMC supporter.

I would like a Brelvi to clear up the misunderstandings generated by the article above that has been submitted by an MPACUK anonymous reader.

I know that some people think that Brelvi's believe more in witchcraft and Magic than Islam but this is not true.

Brelvi's are understood to have taken lots of the Indian pre-Islamic and Moghul beliefs into their belief of Islam.

At the end of the day people may find the simple act of praying 5 times a day and adhering to the 5 pillars of Islam so difficult that innovations are introduced.

INTERESTING FACTS ABOUT THE SUFI MUSLIM COUNCIL

I have taken the following directly from the website:

----

http://sufimuslimcouncil.blogspot.com/

---

7 Questions to ask the Sufi Muslim Council

(1) What is the source of funding for the Sufi Muslim Council? There are rumours that leaders (not sure if this should be plural, as there only seems to be one!) have been offering around wads of cash for this project. The Muslim community deserves to know.

(2) What are the links between the Sufi Muslim Council, Haras Rafiq and the British government? What meetings has Rafiq had with government, politicians or civil servants, other than those that have been publicised. Suddenly, Rafiq is invited by the government to join the post 7/7 working groups and all meetings thereafter - he was unknown before then.

(3) What is the link between the Sufi Muslim Council and the Labour Party? Azhar Ali - one of the "co-founders" of the Sufi Muslim Council has no Sufi credentials but has been a Labour Party councillor. Does the SMC adopt a "New Sufism" approach, akin to "New Labour"?

(4) What are the links between the Sufi Muslim Council and the much criticised Bush and Cheney supporting "Islamic Supreme Council of America"?

(5) What are the links between the Sufi Muslim Council and neoconservatives in the USA? Much of the analysis on the Sufi Muslim Council website is taken from neoconservative writers and think tanks. The criticism of Muslim Brotherhood and HT is taken direct from the writings of the neocons.

(6) What are the links between the Sufi Muslim Council and Zionists? The Sufi Muslim Council has boasted of its links to Jewish organisations in the UK that are ardent supporters of the Israeli state.

(7) What is the view of the Sufi Muslim Council on Qadianis, who claim to be Muslims? Private sources have told us that the Sufi Muslim Council is willing to accept that Qadianis are Muslims, even though they reject the finality of the final Messenger of Allah, Muhammad (saw).

---

You would not be surprised if they even say that Ham is ok in Islam!

Shame! Shame! Shame! Is it what being a Muslim means? Despite the hadith of the prophet (Peace be opon him) that no one can be a Muslim unless he/she holds him dearer than ones parents, children and wealth, we have ignored the real issue and indulged in this senseless debate. Tell me how many of you have bothered asking MCB's Sacranie to return his title? How many of you have bothered to urge the MCB to ask for an explanation from its chief spokesman, Inayat Banglawala, who has expressed his regret for participating anti-blasphemy campaign of 1988 and for supporting the freedom to blaspheme calling it the "right to offend." Is it what you call love for the Prophet?

And look at MPAC, the radical reformers of Muslims, who think they have done a great job by publishing this article.

Well, brothers and sisters given the attitude that we are displaying here no wonder we are facing humiliation everywhere and by everyone.

I don't know how far is it true but it is said that when Halaku invaded Iraq in 1258 the Iraqi ulema were too busy arguing and discussing whether a crow was halal or haram. Our attitude is no different today.

Well done brevo. Go one insulting and humiliating each other and throwing blame on each other.

M. A. Yusufzai, that is rather patronising. You should look at the facts.

Please tell me how far your principles stretch.

By your definition of "lets unite", is a Qadiani a Muslim?

If you think that it is humiliating to point out that the Blair regime has instilled Trojan Horse organisations like the SMC then I am sorry to hear that.

Also, in your apparently principled posting you seem to slap down the MCB whilst condeming slating "each other".
Is this so that you can also have SHAME SHAME SHAME on yourself?

This makes your principles a bit false don't they?

Without doubt all Muslim Brothers and Sisters must ask themselves the 7 questions on the SMC.

Judge Dredd,

I have no desire to waste my time in an unnecessary debate because the Ummah is united on that the Qadianies are KAFIRS.

What is, however, shameful, is the Brevli and non-Brelvi controversy.

When reacting so strongly to my criticism on the MCB, tell me with all honesty what is the difference between a Qadiani, the denier of the last prophet hood of Muhammad sallalahi alai hi wasallam, and the one who justifies blasphemy on our beloved Muhammad (PBUH)? This is what Inayat Bunglawala has done in his article by insisting that people had the right to offend. If you have not read it please read it (here is the link for you: and tell me if it is I who is bringing shame on myself or you are bringing shame on yourself by trying to defend the shameful silence of MCB on the knighthood of Satan Rushdie and the blatant blasphemy by its chief spokesman?

I have been a great supporter of the MCB. I do not know who you are and what is your background. However, I would like to tell you and other readers that in the wake of the publication of Satanic Verses in 1990 some individuals, including Mr Iqbal Sacranie, came forward and held several meetings at the Islamic Cultural Centre. Then they formed a group to be known as Action Committee on Islamic Affairs. This group was later formalised and given the name of Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) and Mr Sacranie became its first Secretary General. What I find painful is the fact that the organisation that had come into being only because of this issue and the man who became a Knight only because of this issue have disappointed the Muslims in Britain.

My dear brother/sister (whatever you are) if there is a credible organisation at work no fake organisation can stand in our way. However, once an organisation like the MCB looses credibility then rest assured for disasters and humiliations. When worldly gains become so dear to us that we do not feel the need to stand up and tell the truth then we are destined to face humiliation after humiliation as we are witnessing in every respect today.

<b>MPACUK MOD: Link Removed</>

MODS

I'm having trouble reading the posts. the last word on the end of each line is being cut off.

I can't make no head nor tales of the posts.

Can you sort this out please

Thanks

[MPACUK MOD] Individuals are not following the rules. If they want their posts to be on here they must not add links or add sentences without any spaces in between.

M. A. Yusufzai

I agree with your comments
in general.

Although I am not sure for
the motivation in:
Brother/Sister or whatever?!?

I defended MCB against SMC.

Not as the absolute voice
of muslims.

I competely disagree with
Inayat's article. He is
trying to show the secular
world that he has socially
evolved.

I hope MPACUK can get the
website defect sorted out
soon.

I have nothing at all against
Brelvi's.
That is the "anonymous" MPACUK
"reader". Prob Malik or Masud.

I have everything against the
divisive TROJAN HORSE SMC.

I've noticed that the MCB has already issued a statement on the attempted London bombings - but so far not a sound from the BMF or the SMC.