I heard that Pav was a homosexual, and that this is probably the reason why he recieved no support from FOSIS. Preservation of the Islamic values requires us to stick to our principles - in Islam, homosexuality is considered sinful. Anyone who states otherwise is clearly in breach of the Islamic teachings.

I must stress that the crude homophobic comments made by some on the MPACUK forum is very much different from one who objects by way of adhering to our (and for that matter Judeo-Christian) religion, FOSIS's decision is not homophobic, on the contrary it stems from concern for preservation of the religious teachings and their purity.

Clearly there are arguments in support of and against working with homosexuals Muslim or otherwise on issues affecting us all, but success comes from Allah alone, and therefore what real benefit is there to seek it through working with those who openly disobey their Lord, especially those who claim to be a Muslim?

Should we therefore abstain from all democratic processes in western civilisation considering the majority "openly disobey their lord"?

As you have highlighted from your question, we are in a situation where disobedience to our Lord is very much widespread. In such an instance where realistically speaking there are no alternatives and participating in necessary "democratic processes" is key in bringing about peaceful change - then we have to weigh out the lesser of the two evils and find the greater good.

In this particular situation however, the matter is not as desperate. It has been somewhat blown out of proportion in the media and the internet. Mr Akhtar considers himself a liberal Muslim, and by default the orthodox have been labeled "fundemantalists", a synonym for "extremist" for many.

As Muslims I believe our learning point should be that the issues that Mr Akhtar has been fighting for should have been issues that orthodox Muslims at large should have been dealing with, with equal if not more vigour, because they are issues from our religion.

As a final point, I think your question's implication about widespread disobedience argues moreso for the need to be principled in our religious values.

La Hawla Wa La Quwwata Illah-Billah - There is no power nor might except in Allah.

"holding FOSIS leadership to account"

the comments may not be endorsed by mpac.

but once again mpac seems to have provided a platform for recycled old news. is there any point?

Instead of promoting Muslim unity, they are displaying a notice that is wedging a further divide between Muslims.

the people who are writing these anti-fosis posts are not whistleblowers. Rather they appear to be foolish jokers who would rather go against a Muslim organisation, than working with it to further Muslim interests.

to that i say.......

shame on you.

another own goal scored for the Muslim community.

First of all, what FOSIS did and do is further the role of Muslim students. The way they do it is often wrong. IN a way they are selling Islam to gain power. This is not just a FOSIS thing but it is the ideology behind the whole Ikhwan movement. One of their principal beliefs is the bigger goal and by any means necessary to achieve that goal. Whether this includes lying, cheating, manipulation or dishonesty, its all under the banner and everything is accepted. Pav from NUS is gay. That may have been one of the reasons why FOSIS did not back him but it is also because of other backers that Pav had that FOSIS had issues with. When FOSIS are at the conference you must remember that they are not their behaving as Muslims. They are there behaving as politicians and all the traits that go with it. If you can trick someone in to believing your lie then you are often "patted" on the back for following the "way". At the end of the day, they are playing the game, and the game is one full of things which Islam prohibits.

Sorry what a load of rubbish, you may disagree with the lack of unity presented but that is rather hypocritical considering that is the argument against FOSIS! Instead of lambasting anyone who dares to make their opinion heard and maybe you should actually take some criticism on board. How do you know that these people aren’t working with Muslim organisations to further Muslim interest, or do you not consider MPAC to be a Muslim organisation? Maybe that will explain why FOSIS have not supported them? Why would you call them jokers when you obviously know nothing about them or what they do? What happened to Islamic manners? I put it to you that it is FOSIS who should try and work more with other Muslim organisations.

Brother Badrudin, I find your comments bemusing to say the least.

All delegates who were attending the NUS conference were invited to the delegates meeting. Now if you didnt attend is that anybody's fault but your own? Nobody will hold your hand. As to being told who to vote for, this is a complete untruth, as it is clear from that meeting (which you appear to comment on, despite telling us that you were not there) that the delegates were given information and were allowed to make their own informed decision as to who to vote for.

To say that FOSIS have done nothing to try and remove MPAC from the no-platform policy is another untruth in your comments. Have you asked anybody in FOSIS about the massive efforts that they have made to remove ALL Muslim organisations from the no platform policy. The funny thing is that FOSIS it seems is in a no-win situation here. They are condemned if they try to remove someone as being reactionary, and then at the same time they are condemned for not trying to remove others.

As to Pav voting record - then you really need to learn the facts before you speak. Did you know that Pav voting against the removing of HT from the no-platform policy? The irony is that on the MPAC website last week adjacent to the article on FOSUS, was an advert for the FOSIS seminar on Palestine (which MPAC advised all Muslim student leaders to attend), and for you try and condemn FOSIS for not working for the Plaestine cause is a travesty of the truth.

Finally, brother, where were you when Muslim students were struggling day and night to find a political voice? Were you the one travelling the country trying to mobilise Muslim students? No! it was the brother and sisters at FOSIS. And yes we have come a long long way and for you to belittle all the hard work and effort that has been made is unfair. Compare FOSIS in the NUS to any other organisation in the country in any other union in the country and you will find FOSIS light years ahead. Now rather than say that, yes we still have a lot to learn you choose to belittle anything that Muslim students have achieved.

To say that we have mobilised Muslim students for nothing shows your lack of political knowledge, and more importantly a lack of trust in Allah. What would you rather Muslim students do? Sit around and do nothing? No, we get up off our backsides, aware that we may make mistakes, but nevertheless, doing what nobody else in this country has. Truth is when you no longer care next year, FOSIS will still be out there working day and night to give Muslim students a voice.

I think your missing the point brother, he does not seem to be belittling what Muslims have achieved, just the apparent deceit in one particular fundamental situation. What it seems like to me is FOSIS can't handle a bit of criticism, sorry I must be reading a different article to you where does it say he hadn’t attended the meeting? The comment was made that 120 delegates made the decision at a council. This was apparently not the case and clearly misleading. But either way Muslims should definitely make more of an effort to communicate and work with each other.

Im sorry, for once we are Muslims are beiong "ALLOWED" to hold our Leaders to account - isnt this a good thing??

I heard asghar (a member of mpac that i have seen on tv) get a grilling by members of the public the other day, it was tough and i didnt agree with how people spoke to him, but it was a breath of fresh air seeing young muslims finally being allowed to hold our leaders to account.

Those on here who think FOSIS leadership are beyond accountability, are the very ones who have kept a corrupt leadership in the mosques in place for all these years.

Well done to whoever wrote this, right or wrong is secondary, the the reason for the letter - a true desire on part of a member of the public to keep our leaders in check and furthering the cause of islam

Our Leaders are public servants, not our Masters!

If we want to hold them to account - THEY SHOULD LISTEN! and not get their cronies to attack the public for asking simple questions.

Some of you people are talking as if FOSIS has done soo much, well at my Uni which is one of the largest Uni's in the country...FOSIS has done nothing to help or support us muslim students!!

We lobbied our Uni for a new prayer room, we lobbied our VC to stop timetabling lectures and Seminars during Jummah prayers and it was our hardwork that delivered us results...FOSIS have never been around!!

FOSIS IS NOT ALL THAT GREAT!!! They cause more harm than good!!!

May Allah guide us all AMEEN!

Does anyone know what happened at last year's NUS Conference? Did FOSIS make any political mistakes then too?(i.e. is this a one off or a recurring pattern?)

akhi, which university are you from? tell me and i will find out for you waht FOSIS has done.

Every organisation has it's ups and downs, and anyone in leadership position knows the tremendous wisdom, balance, and energy it takes. One of the comments correctly asked, where is the Islamic 'adab in your critiques?

Perhaps those criticising need to ask whether they have provided the service FOSIS have provided since 1962. Some of the criticisms are not only baseless, but also has an air of arrogance in them. We are a people of sanad, where then are your sources of criticisms?

Why not take part in their next elections, and see what changes you can make?

FOSIS is nothing more thena student front for MAB? Do you really think anyone could get elected...how transparent is it?

I think FOSIS must stop being a clique and start being run by the students themselves!

Why is it that everytime one of our leaders get held accountable by people comments i hear the word "they have no adaab".

What a Convenient cover for their continued power without awkward questions.

So sad they use islam to hide their own failures.

Why is it that those defending FOSIS cannot do it without an air of apparent arrogance? What makes you so sure that these students have done nothing for the uma? Just because they may not be directly involved with FOSIS does not mean they are not active in their own accord. At my University Ma'sha Allah we have organised events with high profile speakers, charity events, humanitarian events and encouraging Muslims to become more politically involved without ANY aid from FOSIS. Shall you be accusing us of contributing nothing??? I’m sure FOSIS have done plenty for Muslims but so have students on an individual level and if they want to hold the people who claim to be the voice of Muslim students accountable they should be allowed. From what I have seen of FOSIS its seems to be very elitist, I’m sure even if we wanted to get involved in the committee we wouldn’t be able to due to the hierarchy.

My posts never condemned people from criticising Muslim organisations, on the contrary, I think many of the leading organisations such as MCB, MAB, and not forgetting MPACUK, require criticisms to grow.

The point my posts were making is to criticise with 'adab.Those who do not know such manners (putting aside those who find it difficult to tease out such a clear point from my posts) are not worthy of being listened to. MPAC hasn't created a body of politically and religiously conscious Muslims who provide constructive criticisms, rather judging from the posts so far... a winging and moaning group of individuals who seemed to be anti-FOSIS for no apparent reason.

It seems that criticism for the sake of criticism is being encouraged, and anyone asking people to observe the sunnah are being villified. I don't give two hoots about FOSIS, my student days are over - and in six years of being in uni, I have seen our strong Islamic Society survive without the need to ever call FOSIS for aid, though we worked with them on many occassions. This does not reflect badly on FOSIS, nor does it need to impose itself on societies unless they want them to. What do you guys want... FOSIS to throw some cash your way, or a pat on the back?

In short, for those who lack the comprehension for diplomatic posts: FOSIS needs our support and advice to improve, not "bitching" on MPAC website.

To Liberty:
You mentioned the Ikhwan movement, I just wanted to know what that was. The only time I've heard it was in refference to a violent extremist group that helped Ibn Saud gain power in Arabia, just wondering if there was any remote connection.
I apologise for the fact that this has nothing to do with the original post but my curiosity was piqued. Thanks

Firstly, the post was not directed specifically at your comments and I understand your stance, but we are in a situation where MPACUK is the only arena where Muslim students can voice their views/criticisms, a request to have a forum open for Muslim students has been put to them but no response has been given. I do not think the above letter is at all "bitchy" but does highlight areas of concern that the writer has. If a student is frustrated with a particular situation what else is there to do? These are politically active students including myself who participate in student politics, if an issue is of concern, the organisation should provide for an opportunity for discussion, or expect to be held accountable by whatever means are available.

I think this discussion is important because (a) it provides feedback, (b) allows people to be held to account and (c) emphasises how far Muslims still have to go before they can empower themselves. As for myself, my position is that if you want a human being to be perfect before you deal with him, then you might as well lock yourself in the room trying to 'perfect yourself' and not interact with anyone else. As Muslims we've been doing this as a long time which is why we're in the mess that we're in now. As for Pav, the whole point is that surely that he is an effective person, irrespespective of what he calls himself, because that is a matter between himself and Allah. He's not asking that you deal with him as a Muslim, but simply as someone who is effective. As long as Muslims are blind to something this obvious, then we're doomed.

The tone of this discussion has changed significantly. First we were talking about the issues, which nobody has responded to my points on.

It appear from what is being saud that it is ok to account in any way that is deemed fit, be that with baseless lies and accusations, and the onus is on FOSIS to disprove these claims. This is just guiltyuntil proven innocent and this is not the way in which things should be conducted, nor is this accountable, but an excuse to say whatever we want.People can criticise how they want, but FOSIS defending itself, or is actions is arrogance? Does that even make sense. Look at this message board objectively and tell me who is more arrogant, and also if FOSIS has shied away from criticism?Furthermore, nobody from FOSIS has EVER said that accountability is a bad thing. If anybody ever has then please let me know....Accountability is a good thing, in fact a great thing... But there has to be some substance. We cannot just have people throwing around muck, and thinking that that is okay in the name of accountability.

Hassan you seem to be getting very hot under the collar about a letter from the public, and the views of the public. Im sorry i dont agree with everyone who says something on here, but they have a right to say it. What would you do silence everyone who you thinks asks the wrong type of question in the wrong tone?

You used the word bitch, could i then say this term was offensive to some and so you should be silenced?

Why will FOSIS not do a simple thing and say sorry.

If they made a mistake that the Palestinians have to suffer for, then ok we all make mistakes.

But at least they should show some remorse and apologise if not to the public then to the Palestinians themselves.

Or is a simple sorry too much to ask for.

I would have respected FOSIS a lot more if they did what all Muslim groups and leaders thus far are incapable of doing, and that is apologising to the public when they let them down.

I would urge MPAC to lead from the front when they too commit blunders. Maybe FOSIS might learn how to act in a modern world if they saw others acting in this manner.

On the one hand Hassan says he is not a member of FOSIS, now he is saying those who saw the FOSIS debacle with their own eyes are "lying" hmmmmmm

Maybe we are not lying Hassan and simply angry and falwed FOSIS policy that allowed a Zionist to get into power.

MUS, Ikhwan is a movement that arose with Hassan al Banna in Egypt and it took off in the sub continent with Maududi under the banner of Jamaat.

Now a lot of these "old but gold" Ikhwani/Jamaati types from Bangladesh, Pakistan and Egypt, have set up shop here in the UK. Islamic Foundation, MAB, MCB, IFE, FOSIS, YM, ISB are some of the examples that are currently "ikhwanified".

Who are these golden oldies? Well, google search these organisations, and see chairman or the big honchos in there, and read their backgrounds, and ABRACADABRA they all belong to one philosophy and they are all motivated by power and greed.

Their colours have shone through whenever they are in power (its usually a dull grey) but to go into that now is a waste of time. Similar to thier ideologies.

Now, I think Akil made a good point about MAB and FOSIS being intrically joined at the hip. This is true without a shadow of a doubt. They share the same mother.

The current president of FOSIS Wakkas was a MAB boy all his life until he got promoted(by the way it is like a business too). But his sidekicks are ur typical "mullah's" sons who are there for a bit of power and to satiate their egos.

Incidentally Wakkas has been a dentist and left uni two years ago, so why is he still representing the student body? Well I suppose everyone needs to feel important. I say get married and have likkle wacko's jackos man!

Hasan, Hasan, Hasan, I did a little digging on you and I have found out that you are lucky enough to beeee the LATEST and UPCOMING....drum roll....

FOSIS's run around boy

Yes Hasan, you have won the privelege of making tea, brown nosing, handing out flyers, standing at stalls for hours, more tea, getting people together. Well done!!

Seriously bro, they get you to fetch the drinks and do the crappy jobs and make you believe its for Islam. I am sorry mate they are using you. That is an old trick and the ruling power ( your boss, bosses, sir ) all have a joke at the mindless things they make the "runaround boys" do. They wont EVER elect you into any of the positions that matter cos FRANKLY to them, your just a nobody. Focus on your studies and dont let them suck you into their games.

Now of course you want to retort to this, so go ahead and swear and cuss as you young kids are doing these days! Or even try to answer in an intelligible manner in any one of the languages that God has provided. But, please keep it short and stop... and I mean STOP... being Mummys little defender of the Ummah/Islam/FOSIS/ all other crap. POW!

assalamu alaikum,

i can see that the tone in 'debate' has gone way beyond its acceptable manner islamically!!!

by all means islam promotes holding people to account but there is a CERTAIN way to do it whilst maintaning the highest respect for your fellow muslims,

i must ask, have all the people on here who are 'ragging' against FOSIS taken time to speak to FOSIS at all?? or do they just come on here and give their 'expert' opinions!!!

naturally the decisions people make won't please every1 (as you cant!) but so long as the procedure by which it is done is islamic then they should hold to their decisions.

a point to note!!! sheikh hamza yusuf said when asked about backing homosexuals that, it is COMPLETELY not allowed to do so.

i would have said sheikh kardawi's comments on this issue, but then he's an IKHWANI!!! DUN DUN DUN!!!!

i find people's attitudes on here disgraceful especialyl with respect to the ikhwani movement. in the arab world where this all started many of the ikhwan have been murdered jailed and oppressed for decades even till this very day jus for saying NO to the oppresive regime's in the muslim world.

now i wanna ask all you 'experts' on here have you given you blood for islam??? have you ever risked your life and your families life for islam??? have you ever had to flee your homeland and loose all your money, land, property etc for a word of truth???

NO!!!

so SHUTTUP and at least be educated before you make harsh comments abou a particular movement!!!!!

why dont you go to one of the jails in say syria, egypt, libya, morrocco, where the HARSHEST known forms of tortue are practised on the 'ikhwanis' and say to that person who has seen his friends killed, his property taken, his life destroyed, along with him enduring 20 years of jail and humiliation and torture that he is a sell out and he just wants 'power' and see what he has to say???

people should be allowed to critise yes but they should also try to help fellow muslims rather than just complain

thats why the muslim world is in the state its in today,

its because mashala we're all VERY good at complainin' bout how bout any of you getting up and doing something for islam yourself's

you have no RIGHT to complain about anything if you just sit on your backside exercising your mouth!

so can people please some manner in their speach when critising others and remember that we are ONE ummah!

the enemies of islam must be really happy when they log onto Mpac and see muslims cursing and wailing abuse at each other so

WELL DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hate it or love it but we are all one family (yes including FOSIS) as the hadith states when one part of the body hurts the whole body hurts, but here we're tryin to cut parts of our body off!!

what would the messenger of allah PBUH have to say about tht

where is the rahma??

and has the light gone????

allahu a3lam

wa alaikum assalam

(sorry its long, i too wanted the right to express myself, if any good has come about here it is from allah, if any bad then it is from myself and shaitan so please forgive me)

may allah bless you all and unite us outside the gardens of paradise inshala

If the tone of debate has gone way past that Islamically acceptable, why do you then proceed to hypocritically tell your fellow Muslim brothers/sisters to shut up?? Maybe if you yourself learnt some manners people would take notice of your apparently constructive points. The above article was not in ref to the Ikhwan so the majority of your post is some what irrelevant to the issue.

Also I have spoken to members of FOSIS as have many other Muslim students and have requested a forum to debate this issue but has thus far not even been given the curtsey of a response.

If you truly believe in constructive criticism then maybe you should practise what you preach. How dare you insinuate that everyone apart from FOSIS as you say sit on our "backside" exercising our "mouth" (Islamic manners once again I see.)Do you know everyone that posts on this Forum and all that they do? We have reason and proof to constructively criticise FOSIS - the voice of Muslim students as they put it, whereas you have absolutely NO right to criticise people you know nothing about.

Maybe you should attempt to sensor yourself and return once you have calmed down enough to make some relevant and legitimate points.

You think by coming on here and posting in such a rude manner will make people sympathise with FOSIS, quite the contrary. If you are a FOSIS member and know first hand what sheik Yusef and Karadawi have said, why don’t you explain, and perhaps even make your name public as the original brother who posted the article has, or is it easier for you to be malicious anonymously…

Have all the members of FOSIS risked their “life” “families” and given their “blood” for Islam?? No didn’t think so. And since when is that entry requirements for having an opinion on a situation that would directly affect every Muslim student?? Many of these Muslims brothers and sisters have done a great deal for Islam. Many of them have risked their life travelling to Palestine, have fund raised for Iraq, HAVE FLED A COUNTRY BECAUSE OF THEIR RELIGION. Do you have no shame coming on here spouting your absurd comments?

The problem with Muslims is they know not how to take criticism honourably, and feel threatened when they are not followed blindly like dictators. You are a prime example of that.

What a joke. What a sham. Zionists don't need to implement divide and conquer anymore, we just implode all by ourselves.

Look at every other article on this site. No where near as many comments posted. Why? Because if it doesn't involve bitching about each other oh sorry I mean 'holding one another to account' then it’s not as important.

Constructive criticism. Look up the definition.

I think the reason why we have a substantially large number of posts on this article is because it is dealing with an innovative issue. Obviously Muslim political participation within the student movement is fresh turf and we are now dealing with fundamental modern issues that are at the heart of educated and intellectual Muslims in this country.

With the expanse of knowledge and the erosion of reluctance to criticise (especially found in new generation British Muslims) it is inevitable that such an issue would draw immense interest.

I do not believe it is driving a wedge and I don’t think it is because of the opportunity to bitch that the post are so heightened, though I do agree some people should maybe have used a calmer tone.

The main point was and is students obviously feel as though they are not provided with a forum to debate. A forum that all Muslims no matter what background or Islamic school of though can participate in.

Maybe it’s about time Muslims students accommodated this idea?

I actually think that beneath the tit-for-tat mud slinging going on here there's a quite healthy debate. I just think that alot of the criticisms being levelled at FOSIS are misplaced, not because FOSIS is necessarily good as gold, but because you're using facts gleaned from a third (biased) party rather than being objective. Accountability needs to be based on facts not hearsay.

I happen to think that FOSIS made the correct decision regarding backing Sian over Pav and I know that because I've spoken to them about it. I suggest you guys do the same - all the FOSIS officers' contact details are on their website.

The second thing is that you all feel frustrated that FOSIS doesnt want to know about your concerns. Actually they have a forum very active right now on the topic of NUS. If you want to quiz them directly, go there and do it. I doubt that they have time to check the MPAC forum on a daily basis, much as u'd like them to.

Thirdly, you have to recognise the role of national organisations. MCB, MAB, FOSIS or whatever...they cannot go to the grassroots to do your work for you, hence why ISocs, local mosques and all the rest still exist. A team of 12 cannot visit every campus individually, and even if they did, your isoc president may never introduce you to them. When was the last time you met an NUS Executive? Or a Government Minister? Fosis need to make more of an effort to go out there, but they'll never be able to meet everyone.

Fourthly, be fair in your criticisms. FOSIS doesn't always get it right, but when they do, no one reports on it, so u never hear about it! MPAC is as guilty of this as any other media outlet. Just because you've not heard about it, doesnt mean they they've not done it!

Finally, if you dont like fosis and the way its run you should know by now what to do! Get involved and change it! Go to the AGM this summer!

Oh no, thats the way, Oh not thats the way....

Yes thank you very much Miss. Salaam (I am going to assume your a sister because of the way you write).But anyway thanks for the helpful hint of "Get involved and change it! Go to the AGM this summer!" Now go back and read the peoples comments (clear proof FOSIS dont listen or read to anything they dislike or anti FOSIS).

Time and time again on this little comments page, the fact that FOSIS dont listen to anything and have their own Ikhwanified agenda has been written.

Yet, you in your true FOSIS colours have come and given us your "golden advice". "Come and join us buddy." FOSIS do not want to change, they are NOT looking for people to help them change! They have their agenda and they are STICKING to it. And if you come along and want to make a "difference" you will have to be the "runaround boy". We all know what happened to our dear, sweet Hassan, plus the fact that FOSIS take the "you cant beat us so join us attitude", but the truth of the matter is that you deny it and that is what is most hilarious.

So to clarify, we are not frustrated that FOSIS dont hear our concerns, we are have lost confidence in "the voice of the mulsim students since 1962" (chuckle, chuckle) because you dont LISTEN..key word...LISTEN.


But I suppose Miss Salaam that is what you have been trained to do and that is what you get patted on the back for. "Well done sis, you've fooled them" Now, its pretty apparant that you are a FOSIS member (low or high), because no one goes to the FOSIS "active forum", except people who want to "giggle giggle" and "blush, blush" with the active "mujahideen"..."he makes a really khilafite chai sis"..yeah and his beard is nice too"...Yes we have all read the FOSIS (Federation of Student Ikhwani societies)forum.

Now if in fact you happen to be a brother, what I suggest is that u stop writing like the sisters do, stop going to forums pretending to be a sister and discussing brothers and plus I am sure Shaykh Qaradawi in his epic "whats halal and everything is halaal" has prohibited any acts of sodomy, now if FOSIS have a new fatwah on this topic, I will be very interested to hear from them.

I am a member of HT, can i be elected to run FOSIS or do I have to be a part of MAB? Simple question please answer.

Exactly how do you get elected as the head of FOSIS, or is it as all other groups a bunch of cronies.

simple answer to your stupid question Ali: No

you get elected by being involved in your ISOC then your region then nationally - quite simple really you need a track record - do you have a track record? or are you simply lusting for power?

Salaams to you all.Firstly, I am not a Fosis Member or even a supporter, and I have many disagreements but I think the people that are holding fosis 'accountable' need to realise a few facts.

1. If Amar says says 120 delegates decided... maybe he meant the representatives of 120 delegates, ie those that bothered turning up decided. What on earth happened to making 70 excuses for your brother?

2. Fosis didnt push the motion to remove HT from the no platform policy at the universities, the students did. So when students were working on that where were the MPAC supporters and why were they not trying to push a similar motion for MPAC? (Maybe because they don't have many 'real' supporters who would waste their time and effort for such a cause but are very critical online). This isn't Fosis being unfair, its MPAC supporters not taking initiative.

3. No one was 'whipped' and forced to vote in line with Fosis. Amar re iterated on a number of occasions that any delegate has the right to choose how s/he wants to vote. He also made the point that some delegates have to vote inline with union policy and should do so. being a delegate that was present (How many critiques were actually present?) I didn't see a whip not did I even see any pressure.

4.Whats there to say about Pav Akhtar. irrespective of what anyone says about his policies, I would never vote a muslim who commits open Kufr and sees no shame in it.As for the other candidates, they wernt muslim so theres no concept of being shameless for them. thats shouldnt be a reason not to vote for them.

Finally, MPAC have disapointed me yet again with political analysis that seems like it was done for a GCSE essay. Yes, my younger brother who is studying for his GCSEs could have been more articulate. This is not to say MPAC do no good work. Alhamdulillah all Jama'ats, irrespective of their faults, do good work.

May Allah give us the guidance and ability to be objective in our critism and not just losers who don't have anything else to do.

i THOUGHT GETTING INVOLVED WITH KUFS WAS AGAINST HT beliefs, maybe that’s why you cant always engage with FOSIS, and maybe that’s why fosis always, has one over HT

The difference between HT and FOSIS is that FOSIS gets involved while, HT do not but exists in Muslim circus criticising other Muslim orgs.

All I have to say is that there is no surprise this org is in the verge of getting band every where, they don’t engage with the wider non Muslim society, OR WITH OTHER MUSLIMS ORGS for them it is no voting no election no engagement …

Do they even have a base or is it all about handing leaflets outside the mosque telling Muslims not to engage in voting/ elections etc.

Do you really think Blair threatened the banning of HT because there was a serious risk the killafa was going to brought back by them ** reality check** Blair only said that to quite down some opposition by showing he is dealing with extremist groups and to regain support, and who best to give a kicking but HT because they have no friends in the high places nor amongst the other Muslim orgs, think about it, you have so many fascist groups in this country why would Blair even think about banning HT who are not violent and do not even advocate violence, do you know why? Simply because with HT you can! They are high and dry

Blair and Bush love Muslims like that, if there were not Muslims like that they would have gone out of their way to make Muslims like that, who know maybe they did make HT?

Salaams Abs

Firstly, it is not against HT beliefs to get involved with 'KUFS', It is simply against the Islamic Aqeedah to vote for a sovereign or law maker other than Allah (swt). And sorry dissapoint you but HT has engaged with Fosis as well as many other muslim and non-muslim organisations so pleeeeaaassse find the facts before you make your comments.

As for the return of the Khilafah, If you search the internet for CIA reports at the start of 2005, you will find that the CIA actually predicts the rising of an 'Islamic' nation that will play a mjor role in World Politics.

So why do you really think HT is being banned? becasue it is extreme? Does it propogate anything contrary to the Quran or the Sunnah?

Blair is not doing this to show he is dealing with extremist groups, Nobody beleives that the clamp down on 'extremist' groups will reduce terrorist threats so why should he even bother? Your analysis just doesnt make sense my fiend!!

Wasalaam

@Kalim Mukhtar

"Finally, MPAC have disapointed me yet again with political analysis that seems like it was done for a GCSE essay. Yes, my younger brother who is studying for his GCSEs could have been more articulate. This is not to say MPAC do no good work. Alhamdulillah all Jama'ats, irrespective of their faults, do good work."

Looks like you are the one doing GCSE's. This is not MPAC's analysis, but a letter written in be Bard-ud-Din. Some ex-fosis member no doubt.

Good luck with your GCSE's. Hope you pass.