The behaviour of these backward, uneducated, ignorant freaks makes my blood boil. Where I live there are over a dozen mosques and none of them have any places for women. I have never prayed in one, in my whole adult life!! What those 'men' should realise is that those sisters they turned away will shape the next generation of muslims. By failng them they are jeopardizing the future of the ummah.

Welcome to Islam 2006 - Misogyny Incorporated.

Women attending the masajid has become a sensitive issue and many are trying to make political gain out of it in our current environment.
The Prophet (SAWS) gave women of his Ummah the right to attend masajid and no one can take that away. Nor should any one try to do so. However, it has also been stated that women get greater ajar (reward) by praying at home. Our sisters are educated enough to decide for themselves what is best for them in this day and age and the social environment we are living in.
It is also worth mentioning what hardat Aishah (RA) said about women attending masajid when she saw what was happening, this was after the Prophet (SAWS) had passed away, she said had the Prophet SAWS been alive to see what was happening he would have prevented women going to the masjid.
The very first hadith in sahih al-Bukhari and which Imam Nawawi (ra) placed first in his Arbaeen is that “Deeds are only by intentions, and….”
Salat-ul-jummah is fard for men (providing all conditions are met). Only God know the real intentions of our sisters who went to a masjid armed with a camera crew to attend salat-ul-jummah knowing full well there were no facilities for women in that particular masjid.
If the aim of our sisters is to attain the maximum reward when it come to salah then they know what to do.
Let each sister make her own decision in the light of knowledge, piety and taqwa.
Wassalaam, AH1999

GO sisters Go!

I have a question to all those Muslim braders out there,

Who is more equal today in the presence of God... Men or Women?

Before you answer think of the current scientific developments and the hadith what it has to say about mothers and fathers.

Sisters show respect, behave listen to your elders and betters go now go and don't come back here no more you are not welcomed here. This house is the house of God and of men. Go you have the whole kitchen to yourself we have the mosque. Don't you have cleaning and cooking and washing to do?

AMEEN!

ditto what samira said...thank you mpac you guys are true pioneers and inshallah will improve this dire situation ameen...AH1999 pls read the article properly the mosque were contacted and informed beforehand and the point is to get access for women thats why they went to a mosque that wont allow women...thats the point!...also when the Prophet (saw) allowed women in the mosque why do people give precedence to what Hazrat Ayesha rtz and Hazrat Umar rtz said? Shouldnt we follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw)?

Whilst accepting the current problem, I think we should be practical about the solution. Confrontations won't help. We realise that many of the elders of the mosque committees have a problem with women praying at the masjid, be it due to misunderstandings, or cultural pollution of the mind. So if sisters recognise this problem, then they must go about the best way to solve it. Maybe a pre-planned meeting which has now been organised (post-argument) would have helped.

My point being is that, being confrontational with elders and many young people too isn't the best way to tackle the problem.

Well done, sisters!I wonder if there are any brothers out there prepared to accompany you on your next attempt to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet, his wives and other female sahabahs?

Sameera's comments were spot on! Unfortuately these "village idiots" are still living in the Dark Ages and only serve to impose their own backward culture on Islamic values.These are the same people who give Islam a bad name in this country!Non-Muslims - with exception to a few- do not know how to tell the difference between Islam as a religion and the individual behaviour and mannerisms of a primitive minority.Obviously, these 'brothers' come from a culture that harbours serious complexes about their masculinity.Any display of woman's rights is seen as a threat to their ego!I know what I would say to them if they shut the door in my face!!Sisters..don't let them get you down..fight for your rights, but do it in a smart way. Don't let the Kuf-Kufs(Kafir)score points on any display of disunity!This is the time when every Muslim should stand together and be united! 'Start by doing what's necessary; then do what's possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible.'

I would like to add this to my previous congratulations to the sisters.

It is commenting on the message by AH1999. I do not know whether AH1999 is male or female, but this person is clearly taking a male view. I note that AH1999 casts aspersions against the intentions of the Muslim women in trying to gain access to a mosque. He confuses this with trying to gain political capital. Then he quotes Aisha RA. Because something was temporarily going wrong in her day, this is supposed to bar mosques to women. There is a complaint because there was a camera. They make snide comments about a convert muslimah because she is a convert and they totally forget that ALL the companions of the Prophet, SAW were CONVERTS. What's wrong with being a convert? Is it that you can't control converts? Don't they know that Allah Almighty is watching and that the Angels are recording them barring women from mosques. Then we are told that sisters will get more reward from praying at home. This we know, but clearly the sisters are not as selfish as AH1999 or the brothers who think in the same way. The sisters are not only seeking rewards. Nor are they after the good opinion of Muslims who wrongfully bar them from mosques all over the country. The same men smile and smarm to local government officials (most of whom despise them), getting their wives to cook delicious snacks for them( at home), they demand rights for Muslims ( male only, we must presume), they live here accepting all sorts of benefits and provision, most of which are provided by men and women they call Kuffar, and then they won't let Muslim women into mosques, against Qur'anic injunction. Astaghfirullah!
All over this country there are sisters wanting the mosques to be what these Muslim men claim them to be when they apply for grants:- social centres, a focal point for their community, somewhere where they can gather and study Islam, somewhere educated and safe for their children to learn, halal clubs for the children to attend,Muslim advice centres that can guide these same men's sons from drugs, gambling and all the other things they get up to... These sisters are NOT selfish, seeking rewards. It is the brothers who are blind. The sisters want the good of the whole community. They are not after capital, not political capital nor any other kind of capital - unlike some of the men who bar them. What the sisters are doing is following their Prophet Muhammad, SAW, and caring for their communities' youth, which is more than can be said for people like AH1999 and the brothers at the mosque. The sisters are not ignorant either, unlike some of the unpleasant men and their supporters on this series of comments, (although I think "a brother" sounds more like BNP having a go, than a Muslim.) It is no accident that the sisters caught a FLEETING glimpse of a room that MAY have been a SMALL library. Do these brothers think this is political? Do they not like it? They know what they have to do.

This is to Maz, if we are allowed to respond to each other.
Dear Maz, what you say sounds so reasonable, but it has got us nowhere. I could tell you the most amazingly skilful ways in which brothers at different mosques around the country avoid women and girls going to them -though it must be admitted that for many mosques the older women would never dream of going there. The elders and younger ones too, are past masters at resisting every possible method of gaining entry to the mosque by private and persuasive means. This, dear Maz, has been going on for 30 years and is one of the reasons why we have such problems in the UK ummah and why these same brothers have their sons and grandsons in trouble of various kinds, leaving the deen and so on, not to mention some of the young sisters. I knew nothing about this particular event until i read about it on here, but I feel very strongly about the issue as I cannot enter my mosque yet it is advertised as the heart of the community. In my view, if the brothers don't let us in, they will have to answer to Allah on Judgement Day. He will not be deceived by their excuses.

What's the diffrence between this discussion and arguments about how long should a man's beard be?

The only winners in this are the Zionists. So thanks very much for helping their cause.

Lastly, beware of infiltrators.

The Pres.

Alhamdullilah - sisters you have shown great courage and rattled the cages of ill educated, ill infmormed, pompous Male species who believe that they are of higher morality than Allah himself. astaghfurrallah to those like 'A brother' who cannot even write a decent paragraph to prove his point.( at least sort your english grammar out..)

Carry on with this work and inshallah you will achieve more than just to allowing sisters to pray in the mosque.

to those who disagree should be ashamed of themselves.. how can you justify the the ill mannered BEHAVIUOR of the men towards sisters??? surely thats not part of the sunnah eh? 'A brother 'may allah have pity on u!

Not only do they exclude women and thereby half the population from the mosque, to become a committee member not only do you have to speak Gujurati, you have to come from a particular village. You want a backward, insular, badly run mosque come to Balfour Road mosque in Ilford.

The issue should not be seen as Men v Women, but what is best for the community as a whole.
Those sisters whose primary objective when going to the masjid is to offer their obligatory prayers and are prevented from doing so for whatever reason Allah SWT knows your circumstances for sure and He will insha’Allah reward you many fold.
And yes it would be preferable that there should be a space in the masaajid for women to offer their salah. But there has to be sense of balance in such matters.

Those of us who are naïve enough to think that this article is merely about women having a space to pray in the masjid are grossly mistaken. The real issue is much deeper than that.
Focusing on such a narrow issue while ignoring all other factors is unlikely to achieve the best conclusion.

Let us not while trying to correct the mistakes of others commit even bigger mistakes ourselves.

You cannot force us to open the doors to OUR Masjids to you wahabi's.

Do don't kiss your thumbs when required and the men don't even have beard the length of hand.

You don't wear topi's nor can you fully converse in the language of our great sages and walis..urdu.

Go to hell !

It is with sadness that I read some of the comments and the language contained therein posted above. Those who have fostered this culture of using abusive language against other Muslims will bear some of the responsibility of all those who follow their example until the Day of Judgement.

Let us not be too dogmatic in our viewpoints as we get older, more knowledgeable and perhaps wiser our viewpoints may change.

While discussing let us observe the etiquettes of disagreement in Islam, for “Nothing will be heavier on the Day of Resurrection in the scale of the believer than good manners….” (Tirmidhi).

There is no situation which is so bad that it cannot be made worse.

We, the Muslims, are living in difficult and testing times where the self-respect, the honour and dignity of Muslims is at a very low level. The state of the Muslim Ummah in general appears to be terrible.
We all desparately want to do something to benefit the Ummah, to improve its miserable state, the only question is what and how! But the mere desire to do good is in itself not enough? Is that all there is to it? All Muslims want to do good for the benefit of other Muslims but the mere desire to do good is not enough.

It is worth reminding oneself that our words are our deeds and each one of us will have to account for each and every word that we write one Day. Those individuals who are making personal derogatory remarks against individuals or groups can be assured that they will have to account for what they write.

ah1999@hotmail.co.uk

Zara Blanco: that's exactly what I would call them too -- 'village idiots'. You can tell one easliy, because he wears Pakistani village dress on the Tube and makes everyone laugh inwardly. He forgets that he is no longer in Rawalpindi, and he is not a 'tanga wallah'. He is the one who makes every ordinary person (whether English,Scottish, Polish, Italian or whatever) say 'bloody muslim!'

He also forgets that Islam is about 'submission of will', NOT submission of DRESS!!

Usually, he is academically challenged, can't get a decent job so he has become 'religious' and uses that to dominate people, especially the women around him (none of whom have actually chosen to be near him -- mother, sister, or wife who's probably been forced into marriage, being a cousin). He also makes the little girls in his family wear a hijab. Something very sick there.

Good on the sisters who challenged the mosque. They should petition the local authority to make it a requirement that no planning permission is given to future mosques unless a designated area (of equal prominence) is set aside for female worshippers.

Or, why not have women only mosques?

alhamdulilah sister Khadija your post totally rocks...i couldnt agree more!! well done mpac keep up great work inshallah

Dear sisters,

I have to say I wasnt that surprised by the awful reaction those sisters recieved in Ilford. I am surprised a little that some brothers in this forum are defending those actions by the mosque and commenting that sisters should stay at home. This is one of the reasons our people are suffering in all corners of the world as we do not allow an informed debate to take place in the ummah and as a result our mosques do this stupid action.
Good luck sisters.

Sisters you want a mosque to pray in

OK Go and build your own!

The women are permitted to go to the mosques when they are free from looking after childrens at home.if they are not free from looking after the childrens at home,they should make a part of a room a place of worship and that is better for them,according to the hadith.yes afreen you are right that we should follow the propets[sallallahu ali wa sallam]sayings,that women have the right to go to the mosques and pray insha Allah,but the narration of hazrat Aisha[radiAllahu anha]that fitnah acured in the mosque and if the prophet of ALLAH saw that he would have prevented the women from going to the masajid.Now here u need to understand that at the time of the prophts[saw] the fitnah was not there,but in the time of Aisha[ra]the fitnah acured,if the fitnah acured at that time,the fitnah could happen in this time aswell.now i am not tring to be sexist and i cant be, because i am mentioning the sayings of Aisha [ra]and she was a women.the solution to this problem is that men and women put together as a ummah prevent this fitnah, this is the main problem.we sould not say that men are this and that and women are this and that.instead we should focus on the prblem.and Allah knows best.

Assalaamu alaikum brothers and sisters.

I feel we must take note of what AH1999 is saying about good manners. It is one thing to speak the truth. It is one thing to speak the truth in an uncompromising manner when one feels this is necessary. It is one thing to speak the truth KNOWING that there will be trouble, because we know that the other trouble that we are addressing is worse, BUT:-
It is something else when Muslims start insulting each other and thereby doing the reverse of dawah. Good manners means considering the other people's feelings. We must achieve some kind of balance here.
We should also realise that most of us do not know who some of these people putting posts on here are.
The brothers who so far have prevented us from going into our local mosque wear their traditional dress, most of them. They are entitled to and it has got nothing to do with letting us into the mosque or making it a proper centre of learning and community. We do not hate our men. There are other mosques where the men dress in their traditional clothes and there are all sorts of facilities for women and children.
Look at the post from "Haji Haq"!
Is this really from someone called Haji Haq? Because if it is it would be easy to suggest that his post makes a mockery of his name and spell out the reasons in detail. Or is it a piece of creative writing by a budding dramatist who well knows the attitudes of some of our brothers? We don't know.
Sisters, we should neither back off in our efforts to improve provision in the masajid, nor refuse to negotiate with the brothers if they ever offer such a luxury, nor should we descend to infantile name-calling. We should be strong AND keep to the rules of good manners. If reason, truth and good manners will not move the brothers, then shame might.
To the suggestion that sisters could go and build their own mosques: in Islam we are urged not to be divisive or divided. This is why we want access to our mutual mosques, rather than go build or rent our own. To do that would defeat the object of improving and maintaining unity, and of educating the youth in the true spririt of Islam.

To reiterate:
Quote AH1999 : “Only God know the real intentions of our sisters who ….”
Does anyone disagree with this?

Quote AH199: “ Those sisters whose primary objective when going to the masjid is to offer their obligatory prayers and are prevented from doing so for whatever reason Allah SWT knows your circumstances for sure and He will insha’Allah reward you many fold.”

Quote Khadeja Khan: “We should also realise that most of us do not know who some of these people putting posts on here are.”
This is very true.
So it will be interesting to see, on the Day of Judgement, how some us will defend statements like,
“….but clearly the sisters are not as selfish as AH1999” and
“…What the sisters are doing is following their Prophet Muhammad, SAW, and caring for their communities' youth, which is more than can be said for people like AH1999.”
Perhaps those of us who write such personal derogatory remarks can reflect on which one of the honourable scribes has written such comments (the angel on one’s right or the angel on one’s left….the pen has been lifted and the ink has dried.)

Time to think.
ah1999@hotmail.co.uk

During the time of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), women used to attend the Musjid. Despite this, Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) still encouraged women to perform their Salaat in the privacy of their homes. However, he did not prevent them from attending the Musjid. This was so because people of those days were strong in faith and staunch followers of Deen. There was no immodesty and shamelessness among the women in the time of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). they knew and understood the commandments of Allah Ta'ala and were very particular in fulfilling the obligations of the Shari'ah. Despite all this, Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) is reported to have said that the best place for a woman to perform her Salat is in the seclusion of her home. (Musnad Ahmad vol.6 pg.297) However, we find that later on, during the time of the Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu Anhum), women were directly prevented from attending the Musjid due to various reasons. This was in no way a conflicting view to that of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) for the simple reason that those factors, on the basis of which the Sahaba (Radhiallaahu Anhum) laid down this directive were such factors which were not prevalent in the time of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). In short, the factors were the fear of evil and corruption. It was for this very same reason that Hadhrat Aaisha (Radhiallaahu Anha) was reported to have said that if the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) were to witness the conditions around which women attend the Musjid in our times, he would have certainly prohibited it. (Bukhari vol.1 pg.120) When this is what Hadhrat Aaisha (Radhiallaahu Anha) says with regards to women attending the Musjid in her time where evil and corruption were far lesser than in our times, what will it be like today? It is for this reason that the Ulama strictly prohibit women from attending the Musjid. and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best Mufti Ebrahim Desai

Being a regular visitor to this Mosque i have taken the trouble to ask a few people what went on.

AT no point did these sisters phone the commitee to make any arrangements.

They turned up with a Camera Crew (exactly what were you trying to achieve??)

There is not enough room at Balfour Road to accomodate Men let alone Women despite having two Khutbas...so are you saying they should make room for women for whom it is not obligatory to pray Jumma in a mosque and turn away Men for whome it is Fardh??? The Library is used for prayers and even the space in the Wudhukhana at Balfour Rd is used...every inch of space available is used.

When the sisters were told they couldnt pray one of the sisters took off her hijab dress to pray revealing tight revealing western clothes to men who had come to offer prayers...Shame on you woman for doing that outside a mosque.

As for the men being referred to as Villge Idiots at some point in your family your Father or your Grandfather wore the same clothes... If wearing a Shirt and Trouser makes you an Intelligent Educated person you people need to get a Brain Transplant. I know Doctors, Civil Cervants and Senior manaegrs who wear this dress to work because the likes of you and me dont have the guts to wear them dont criticise them....

Perhaps Sisters your time would be better spent trying to Educate your fellow sisters who are busy these days fornicating indulgin in Zeenah, drinking and Smoking Drugs rather then taking camera crews to Mosques to do something not obligatory on you. and before you start you dont need access to a Mosque to do that just go and talk to them on the street, because thats what the "Village Idiots" do they go around talking to fellow muslim brothers to invite them to a better life.

When I used the term "village idiot" I was not referring to their level of accedemic acheivement, or that they cannot get a "decent job."That has absolutely no bearing all the argument atall!Let's remind ourselves that the Prophet(PBUH) was not accedmically educated and thus proving that accedemia does not automatically make you an intellectual! It goes far beyond that!If these men can't get a decent job, it is most probably down to the fact that there is a great deal of discrimination towards Muslims, especially of Asian origin..that is hardly their fault!My point I was to make is that certain elements of the Muslim commuitity bring their own culture and traditions that are not always in line with Islamic etiquette and, in some cases, completely at odds with Islamic law and doctrine.Sometimes you hear crazy instances where 'Muslim' men make their wives cover their faces in front of their father-in-law!I am not surprised that there is so much ignorance and bad-feeling towards Islam when you have people like that using Islam for their own perverse ends!My argument is: be an example and show this country how strong we are and that Islam is truly about peace; that there MUST be a clear distinction made between Islam as a religion and INDIVIDUALS who give our faith a bad name!

I agree that Balfour Mosque is not very women friendly which is wrong.

However, why would you go to a Mosque KNOWING that they're gonna shut the door in your face.

Esp since there is no shortage of Msoques in Ilford that DO allow women to pray there, such as Albert Rd Mosque and Barking Mosque...or you could have caught 25 or 86 bus from Ilford to Forest Gate, there are plenty of mosques there that allow women to pray there.

Dear Mufti Desai,

Corruptions and evil vary from age to age. The ones we face now are no doubt different from those in Ayesha's time.

Therefore, please could you list the corruptions and evils present today which are avoided by prohibiting women from attending the mosque. Please explain what might happen if women go to the mosque that is so dangerous.

And to the other side: what corruptions and evils are caused by not allowing women to worship in the mosque, and what corruptions and evils do you think can be averted by allowing women access to the mosque?

Maybe if we clarify this we might get to the real issues involved, and assess the relative dangers.

I say no women in Masjids.

What can they hope to gain or acheive

Muslim women should remain at home and carry out their duties.

Enough is enough now The masjid has it's elders and they will decide for now and we must respect their authoritative position afterall they were the ones to have facilitate for the construction of these masjids

Sisters! Build your own masjid and use it

Zara

You are what you are there is no compulsion to adhere to anything that you have to say or believe

Your Islam is not my Islam

Shut it you are a fool you come across as being embarrassed by fellow Muslims who happen to do things different from your perspective, well we are not all Modern converts

And guess what build your own Mosque and pray in it and invite all the Men Muslims you care to invite and why stop there, but dont tell our elders "offwan walla coffwan".

Figure it out Muslim

As a Muslim I do not have to prove anything to any one and especially to this country as you have said we should

I am sorry to say that you are weak in "dean"

This is to "Shut it".. anybody would think I touched a nerve!

First of all you are being very unislamic by your tone and comments made!

How dare you suggest that I am 'weak in my dean!'

Who are YOU to make such an accusation?!


I am sorry if my remarks have offended you, but quite frankly my 'brother', that is your problem!

I stand by what I say!


It seems to me, by the tone of your post you have a very perverse way of living Islamic life!

You cover your wife's face in front of your father..?

Shame on you, if that is the case!

There is nowhere in the Quran that says that a woman has to cover in front of her father-in-law, or even grandfather-in-law! It's sick to make your own rules up when God has clearly stated His! Not to mention haram!


And yes, I will criticsise your way of Islam, because you make idiots of yourselves!


As for the ignorant statements from so-called men that women should "stay at home and attend to their duties," by God if you were not Muslims I would tell you to go to hell!


Islam treats women as equals to men..they are different BUT equal and have as much right to worship in a mosque as their brothers!

You say build a mosque, then why isn't anyone providing one for the sisters?!

Oh, sorry they are busy being chained to the kitchen sinks and being good little domestic godesses for their husbands to be able to participate in even fund raising activities!

You people are unbelievably primitive! I can understand now why some Non-Muslims get fed up with cultural hang-ups within certain Muslim comunities! It is extremely off-putting!


Get a life and remember you are not a caveman!

If you have a problem with women's rights, than Islam is not for you. This religion liberates women..you would do well to remember that!

Halima: If I'm not mistaken you will find that an individual has posted part of a Q&A from Mufti Ibrahim Desai's website askimam.org.

Halima:

If I am not mistaken you will find someone has done a copy and paste from Mufti Ebrahim's Q&A website.

Zara
May you and Shirley find "eternal peace". Stop calling Muslim people village idiots

It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness


Sister or no sister Muslim or no Muslim if you call my father a village idiot then you will need to speak to his daughter whom I fear will teach you true manners

For a convert you need to learn the etiquettes of your adopted religion and most of all don’t be rude to your elders and other Muslims, Don’t call them “village idiots living in the dark ages, perverse, idiots or cavemen”
Shame on you as a Muslim sister to stand by these vile words even when the brothers have tried to point you in the right approach

You are NO police, judge and jury of us Muslims.

Get of your high horse and live your life and practise your faith as you see fit.

I don’t care if you worship a rock because I will not have to judge you on that faithful day, so STOP judging Muslims.

IT REALLY IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS HOW ANY MUSLIM PRACTISE THEIR RELIGION
Get it!

I have no problems with women’s rights “Ummak thoma Ummak thuma Ummak thuma abuk” However I have a problem with your over zealous perception of woman’s rights to insult your elders and Muslims alike

Islam is for me you and all of man and woman kind we are all Allah’s creatures
WHO ARE YOU ON EARTH TO SAY ISLAM IS NOT FOR ME? Just because I am defending Muslims from your vile abuse. Allah is my judge not you, never you

A Mosque has it’s congregation and it’s committee representatives and people are more receptive to humility and civility when ask of them to do something for you, but I fear those qualities are alien to you and friends. Above all if you are not given your request you do not resort to insults and disreputable tactics and cheap shots.

If you cannot cook, order a takeaway but with that extra time use it more productively and refrain from causing mayhem outside the Masjids

Now that is all I will say on this

To 'Shut it':First of all I am NOT a convert! So please aquaint yourself with the facts before you present your argument.And respect is a virtue that appears to be somewhat alien on the part of certain 'brothers' in the community. Is Islam selectively a male-favoured religion? No, it is not, but some Muslim men behave as though it is!There is no doubt that elders deserve respect, but that does not explictly give them the right, as an older person to disregard(and disrespect) the younger generation of Muslim, male or female because of an apparent age-based superiority complex. Respect is 2 way!Islamic principles should always come BEFORE cultural tabbos or practicies: the latter often conflicting with the very fabric of true Islamic cilivisation.In making my remarks, I was not conducting a personal attack on members of your family..I don't even know them. I was making a general point with reference to cultural attitudes towards women and how sisters perceive themselves within the Ummah.You take offence to terms, such as "village idiot". This was not directed at any one particular person, but rather in a collective sense.These Muslimahs were not only denied their rights, but deeply hurt by the way in which they were treated. It is also noteworthy to mention that your blatant calls for 'respecting'others fails to include female equality and recognition!Regarding your sister'teaching me manners' I think, perhaps she should turn her attention to her brother who has brazenly told me to "shut it!".If that is not rude, I don't know what is!The passions that have been roused by recent events serves to illustrate the lack of understanding within a male dominated community towards its female members.Is it now not the time to put Islamic values before CULTURAL and local traditions?

To 'Shut it',

If you speak of 'not judging others' then perhaps you should heed your own advice before lecturing your fellow Muslim!

YOU are the one who has been 'questioning' the level of my deen, making false claims of my 'conversion' to Islam and that I am lousy cook, simply because I believe in championing womens' rights in Islam..and then you accuse ME of being over-zealous!!

Furthermore, your anger, it would seem is not so much directed at 'words' that I have used to illustrate my concerns, but, rather the arguments behind them.


Perhaps the old cliche is right: 'the truth hurts!'

Er, that's why there are SEPARATE praying/social areas. One for MEN and the other for WOMEN.

To use the excuse that Muslim men would not be able to control thier lusts is utter nonsense!

Why do you think hijab and lowering of the gaze has been prescribed as an article of faith? To curb/reduce carnal feelings!

Hijab is not just a covering it is an attitude!

If a brother has lustful tendencies, well quite frankly that is his look out. The sisters guard their modesty to the best of their ability(at least they should.)

If a sister is not dressing in an approprioate manner, then it needs to be brought to her attention. Perhaps she is not aware of this.


You cannot go through life not having any contact with the opposite sex. This is a very immature and fanatical approach to Islam, I am sorry to say!

The more you supress a person's rights the stronger the determination becomes.

The various classical Hanafi Fuqaha [and also the majority of the contemporary Hanafi Ulema of the Indian subcontinent] are of the view that it is makruh [disliked] for women to go to the Mosque for congregational prayers and that it is better for them to do their prayers at home. However, some contemporary Hanafi Scholars say that, given the change of circumstances and culture in the West in this day and age, it will be best if women are designated a place in the Mosques so that women could pray in the Mosques in times of genuine need.

The traditional prohibtion or the disliking of women going to the Mosques is based on 'fitnah' which became widespread after the death of the Prophet [sm], and some Hanafi Ulema may think that, since the fitnah in the world, and specifically the West has got a lot worse then in the past, then there is all the more reason to prohibit/discourage women from the Mosques.

So therefore, rather then try to forcefully get a Mosque to facilitate a praying area for sisters in the Mosque, by using agressive media tactics, we all should respect the differences of views in Madhabs and amongst the Ulema and we should approach this matter sensitively and with civilised discussion and see if we can get all the Ulema to agree that it is a good thing for every Mosque to have a sisters praying area too.

And if some Ulema/Mosque staff remain convinced that the best way is the classical Hanafi way, then we should respect that and not try to force our views and opinions on others.

Salaam.

Sisters, please listen to your brothers. We only have your future well-being in mind when we tell you what to do. Mosques are for the brothers to pray in, the home is the place for sisters to pray in. Allah(swt) has told us this so that we may get to jannah!

The home is the safest place for you. Outside is a dangerous place for you little flowers.

Assalamu Alikum

According to the indian scholars (hanfiyoon),who have permitted women in india to pray in the mosques.There evidence is that,if women are alowed to go to the market places on there own,then they should be permitted to go to the masaajid to pray to their lord.[ruling made from qiyaas(analysis)].Either they stay at home or go to the masaajid to pray they have a choice.some may oppose and say if women are going out to market places, let them go but dont let them in mosques.
what i would say to that is would u let your sisters go out and commit sins or would you rather want them to know how to stay away from sins.if there is a mosque space for sisters with hijabs and
a parda between women and men,and the most important thing is that the imam needs to be strong in his rulings and systems in how he runs the mosque, then it should be ok In sha Allah.if the imam is weak the entire system is weak,i garatee you that it wont work,specialy in a mosque run by the commity,in that the commity gives islamic rulings not the imam.Allah knows best.

Zara

May I ask you if you are a Sunni or a shiat or a sufi?

I will explain why I ask after you post your reply

I am a Muslim and follow the Prophet's traditions.

Your question is a little too personal, Bro! />


Whatever point you want to make you should be able to do so, without knowing my personal idiology/school of thought.

Generally, the major Fatawa books of the Indian Subcontinent Hanafi jurists (fuqaha) discourage (quite vehemently at times) women from attending and praying at Mosques. They base their understanding on the fact that a woman is encouraged by Allah Most High to remain within the confines of her home unless there is a need for her to emerge outside. Allah Most High says:

“And stay in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former times of ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, O members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.” (Surah al-Ahzab, V: 33)

Similarly, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) in many Hadiths encouraged women to offer their prayers at home:

Sayyida Umm Salama (Allah be pleased with her) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “The best Mosque for a woman is the inner part of her home.” (Musnad Ahmad & Tabrani)

Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Do not prevent your womenfolk from attending the Mosque, even though their houses are better for them.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)

Sayyida Umm Salama (Allah be pleased with her) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “A woman’s prayer in her inner room is better than her prayer in the outside room, and her prayer in the outside room is better than her prayer in the courtyard, and her prayer in the courtyard is better than her prayer in the Mosque.” (Mu’jam of Imam Tabrani)

Indeed, women in the time of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) did attend congregational prayers in the Mosque, and they were not prevented from doing so. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) himself advised against preventing women from attending congregational prayers, for example:

Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “If your wives seek permission from you to go to the Mosque at night, let them.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no: 827)

And:

Salim narrates from his father that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “If the wife of any one of you seeks permission to go to the Mosque, he may not prevent her.” (Sahih Muslim, no: 442)

However, the understanding of the various classical and contemporary Hanafi Fuqaha is that women in the time of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) had the unique opportunity of praying behind the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) himself- an act that cannot be paralleled today. Secondly, they used to observe all the requirements of Shariah including those of proper covering (hijab), hence they were not prohibited from attending the congregational prayers. Despite this, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) still advised and encouraged them to pray in their homes.

Sayyiduna Umar ibn al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) in his time felt that the concession given to women for attending the congregational prayers in the Mosque is sometimes being misused and could be misused even more in the future. He felt that women were no longer taking care of the Shariah requirements as they used to in the time of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), and he was also aware of the fact that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) advised women to offer their prayers at home. Hence, keeping all of the above in mind, he issued a verdict that women should no longer attend congregational prayers in the Masjid, and this decision of his was collectively accepted by the other Companions. (See: Ayni, Umdat al-Qari, 3/228)

Similarly, Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (Allah be pleased with him) used to refuse women entry to the Mosque for Friday prayers and would say: “Go, your homes are better for you.” (Recorded by Imam Tabrani. See: al-Targhib wa al-Tarhib, 1/190)

Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) said:

“If the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) was alive to see what women are doing now (in A’isha’s time), he would surely have prevented them from attending the prayers in the Mosque just as the women of Banu Isra’il were prevented.” (Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim)

The renowned Hadith scholar and Hanafi jurist, Imam Badr al-Din al-Ayni (Allah have mercy on him) states whilst commentating on the above statement of Sayyida A’isha:

“Had A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) witnessed what women are involved in the various types of innovations and wrongdoings these days, she would have been even more extreme in her preventing women from entering the Mosques……Also the fact that there had not been a long time between her statement and the demise of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), and also the fact that women in her time were not involved in even one portion of a thousand of what women are up to these days.” (Umdat al-Qari, 3/230)

Based on the above, the various classical Hanafi Fuqaha (and also the majority of the contemporary Hanafi Ulama of the Subcontinent) state that it is disliked (makruh) for women, whether married or single, to go to the Mosque for congregational prayers.

Imam al-Kasani (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“It will not be permitted for young women to go to the Mosque for congregational prayers due to the fact that Sayyiduna Umar (Allah be pleased with him) prevented women from doing so. Moreover, women’s going to the Masjid is a cause of mischief (between men and women) and mischief (fitna) is Haram, and that which leads to something Haram will also be unlawful.” (Bada’i al-Sana’i, 1/157)

Another classical Hanafi jurist, Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“It is disliked for women to attend congregational prayers in the Mosque even for the Eid and Jumu’a prayers, and even for old women attending night prayers, according to the more reliable position in the Hanafi School, due to the corruption of the time.” (Radd al-Muhtar ala al-Durr, 1/566)

It is stated in al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya:

“The Fatwa these days is that it is disliked for women to go to the Mosque for all prayers, due to widespread corruption.” (al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya, 1/56)

Based on all of the above evidences, and based on what the classical Hanafi Fuqaha have stated in their respective works, the majority of the contemporary Hanafi Fuqaha of the Subcontinent consider women attending the congregational prayers in the Mosque to be disliked if not disallowed. Their stance is not based on any cultural values or customs (as some people wrongfully believe); rather, they are merely reinforcing what the classical Hanafi jurists have stated. Thus, to point fingers at them saying they are culturally oriented is indeed doing injustice to them.

Having said all of the above, the following is worth considering:

In my humble view (and who am I to have a viewpoint, hence what I intend to mention is merely through the blessings of my teachers), the main reasoning behind the classical Fuqaha’s dislike of women going to the Mosques for congregational prayers is the fear of what they term as “Fitna”. The term Fitna means: mischief, harm, corruption and generally the non-observance of the Shariah rulings. Almost all of the classical jurists state that due to widespread mischief and corruption, women no longer should be going for congregational prayers. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) himself never forbade women from attending the Mosques; rather, he said that women should not be prevented from entering the Mosques. Hence, the jurists (fuqaha) have based their ruling on the position of Sayyiduna Umar and Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with them both), and their position was based on the fear of mischief and harm.

They saw that corruption was rife and widespread in their time; hence, women may be harmed by immoral and corrupt people if they emerged out of their homes. They feared that if women are encouraged to go to the Mosques, it could open the door for unlawful intermingling of the two sexes. The main reason, however, was the fear of women being harmed, as pointed out by Imam Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) in his renowned Radd al-Muhtar and other classical Fuqaha. This is the very reason why some classical Fuqaha permitted old women to attend the Fajr and Eisha prayers, for the immoral and wicked people are asleep at that time. Some even allowed them to go for Maghrib prayers, for the immoral people are normally busy eating at that time. Imam Ibn Abidin then states that if there is a fear of the wicked people loitering around in these prayers times, then it will be disliked for women to go for these prayers also. (Radd al-Muhtar, 1/566)

One should always keep in mind the context in which the Fuqaha were giving such verdicts. Life was very plain and simple. Women in Muslim countries and Islamic societies would normally not emerge out of their homes unless absolutely necessary. The need to emerge out of the house was not like the need we have in today’s complicated world. Hence, Muslim women would remain within the confines of their homes, and emerge outside only in certain unavoidable situations.

Keeping this context in mind, one can easily understand why the classical Fuqaha gave such verdicts. By allowing women to frequent the Mosques, they would be giving women permission to emerge out of their homes - women who would have otherwise not emerged outside. Thus, they feared that Muslim women normally do not come out of their homes, and in allowing (and encouraging) them to go to the Mosque, there is a possibility that evil and wicked people may jump at the chance of harming them.

If we were to apply this context to the modern era - where women are all over the market areas, shopping malls, shopping centres, streets and roads - it seems unfair to completely shun them from entering the Mosques. As one scholar of piety and knowledge once said: “We don’t mind women frequenting the most disliked of places in the sight of Allah (abghad al-Bilad) which are the bazaars (aswaq), but we have a major problem with women coming to the most beloved of places (ahab al-Bilad) in the sight of Allah, which are the Mosques!

Therefore, when women are allowed to go to the Bazaars, markets, shopping malls and other such places (and justifiably in many cases), then it does not seem right to completely shun them from coming to the Mosques. The main wisdom behind the position of the classical jurists was the fear of harm and corruption, and in the modern times women (Muslim, non-Muslim, practising and non-practising) are all over the place, hence if evil and wicked people would want to cause any harm to them, they would surely look out for them at other places rather than the Mosques. Also, women generally would be safe in our times from being harmed whilst going to the Mosques.

Secondly, at times there may be a genuine need for women to go to the Mosques, such as when travelling and the prayer time is about to come to an end. There have been many cases where a sister had to miss her prayer, for there were no facilities for women to pray in the Mosque. At times, women may need to go to the Mosque to learn sacred knowledge, attend a spiritual gathering and other such matters, hence she may need to pray her Salat in the Mosque.

Keeping the above in mind, and given the times we are living in, I believe that both of the following two extremist approaches should be avoided with regards to women going to Mosques, and we should adopt the middle way, as “the best of ways is the middle way”:

Some people are quite extreme in their support and encouragement for women attending congregational prayers to the point that they consider women who wish to pray at home to be deprived of the blessings and benefits of praying in the Mosque. At times, men and women are seen praying in the Mosque in such an informal and casual manner that the rules of Shariah are overlooked. The rules of Hijab are violated and men and women are quite willing to intermingle freely and openly in the Mosque. They think that actions are according to their intentions; hence, even if the means taken are unsound, it seems not matter to them. In some Mosques, on the occasion of Eid and other celebrations, women and men dress like they are attending some sort of a fashion show, with the women dressed up in all their make up and powerful fragrance.

This was actually what Sayyiduna Umar and Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with them both) were thinking of when they prevented women from going to the Mosques. One should always remember that “ends don’t justify the means” hence it is vital that in order to do an act of good, one must take means that are sound also. Open and casual intermingling of the sexes is prohibited in Shariah; hence, it will not be permitted for women to go to the Mosque in such a context.

On the other hand, we see that some people are quite extreme in preventing women from attending the Mosques that they don’t even have a designated place for women to pray. If a sister was travelling and was out of the house due to a need, and the time for prayer came in, what would she do? In many cases, women are forced into knocking on people’s doors to allow them to pray. If they are unsuccessful, they have no choice but to miss their prayers. This is another form of extremism which I believe should be avoided.

The middle way is that women should be encouraged to offer their regular prayers at home, and not come to the Mosque habitually without having a need to do so. At the same time, every Masjid should have facilities for a woman’s prayer area, so that if a sister is travelling she is able to make Wudu and offer her prayers without having to miss her prayers altogether. In the case of women coming to the Mosque, extreme care and precaution should be taken of observing the rules of Hijab, so that there is no fear of any Fitna. Both brothers and sisters should have separate entrances, and open intermingling of the two genders must be avoided. Sisters should also be wary that going to the Mosque should not lead to the non-fulfilment of their other household duties.

I believe this is the balanced approach that may be adopted in the west given the times we live in. Ultimately, the main objective of the slave, male or female, is to seek the pleasure of Allah Most High and not satisfy one’s own desire and wish. Hence, one should be content with the command of Allah Most High and His beloved Messenger (Allah bless him & give him peace) whether it suits one or otherwise. Therefore, Muslim women should understand that praying at home is just as equal in the sight of Allah to men praying in the Mosque. May Allah Almighty give us all the true understanding of Deen, Ameen

it was a privillige for women given by Islam that it did not make it compulsion for women to go to Mosque but the muslims of today are making it a handicap for women which is wrong. women were allowed to go to mosques by the prophet (PBUH). so no one can take this right from them.