Yay!

Very good !
I am delighted to see that people like this racist spokesperson for Orange are being called to account for their hate inducing demagoguery.

It is the idea that hating Muslims is OK that has led to abominations like the genocidal attacks on Palestinians, Afghanis and the Lebanese.

Mashallah. All praise be to Allah.

I am ecstatic to hear this announcement. Inshallah, I pray that this is one of numerous successes that being active will create.

Excellent stuff , WELL DONE MPAC.

I migh even change to orange now! Glad to see that someone is held accountable for spreading sick and cheap stereotypes at the expense of others.

Its called "FREEDOM OF SPEACH"

Excellent news!!!
Well done to everyone who made this happen. Keep up the good work!!

Well, I for one will not use Orange services from now on. Your spokesman on the BBC Asian network yesterday not only said that being pro-Israeli was not a legitimate position, he refused to answer the question whether MPAC had ever taken material from neo-Nazi websites. Why was that do you suppose?

You didn't publish my response then... freedom of speech really sticks in your gut doesn't it?

I hear the MPAC representitive lost it again on the BBC's Asian Network last night... chill out man and get a sense of humour!

Absolutely ridiculous. Whatever happened to freedom of speech?

well done Ezra Cohen and thank you for your support.

We need two like you and we have an army

a victory for poor argumentum

Salams,Well done MPACers. You even get a mention in the Independent:

My apologies for writing a long post but I feel that in the spirit of rational dialogue that this site was created to promote it might be useful to unpick what has happened and what has actually been said. Real people have suffered real hurt and it is in the interest of all to think clearly about how this has come about.

Inigo Wilson wrote an article on the ConservativeHome website. Some elements of this article have been said to be offensive and demonstrate that the writer is Islamophobic and Racist. As such some members of this forum have complained to his employer and he has been suspended. This has led to some furious debate on a number of websites and insults have been thrown by both sides in a number of sub debates about Racism, Islamophobia, Freedom of Speech and the responsibilities that we owe to our employers outside working hours.

I would recommend that anyone interested read the whole of the article that Mr Wilson wrote at http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2006/08/inigo_wilson_a_.html

The article starts with an opinion piece about the way in which language is used to frame debate. His contention is that there has been a trend to use overly verbose language and jargon to obscure the truth rather than to shed light upon it. His particular target is the current UK Government and those that he describes as being on the "left". These include parts of our administrative bureaucracy, education establishment and race and rights activists.

He follows the opinion piece with a list of ways in which words have been used that he thinks do not reflect the true meaning of those words. The writing style is plain and blunt as it is the intention to criticise verbosity. It is worth quoting the preamble to this list of definitions:

"If we want to limit the spread of this grating, euphemistic and deeply political language in our national life, the first thing to do is recognise it for what it is. So, in the list below, I've brought together some of my favourites - a compilation of 'key learnings' if you will - and tried to describe their usage and meaning as I've encountered them. Welcome to the 'Lefty lexicon'."

Notice that he is trying to "describe their usage and meaning as I've encountered them". This is very different to the suggestion that has been made that the list is a collection of what he believes to be the true definitions of these words.

There are two definitions that seem to have caused much of the offence:

"Islamophobic - anyone who objects to having their transport blown up on the way to work."

and

"Palestinians - archetype 'victims' no matter how many teenagers they murder in bars and fast food outlets. Never responsible for anything they do – or done in their name - because of 'root causes' or ‘legitimate grievances’."

From the debates of the MPAC forum it seems that the definition of "Islamophobic" has been taken to mean that if you object to being blown up on your way to work then you are Islomophobic. This is thought to mean that Mr Wilson thinks that it is rational and right to be Islamophobic.

Similarly with "Palestinian" the definition on its own would suggest that he thinks Palestinians to be murderous and irresponsible.

I suggest that if those definitions were all that he had written then it might be fair to think him prejudiced. However, that ignores his own stated intention in writing the list. He has written the definitions as being self evidently stupid so as to satirise those that use the words in such an inaccurate way.

The complaint that he is making about the use of the word "Islamophobic" is that it is misused in order to shut down rational debate. What he is saying is that of course anyone would object to being blown up. Of course anyone would want to criticise people who want to blow you up.

We are sadly in a position though that some people do, however, think that blowing up trains is a legitimate form of protest. The evidence suggests (although many may not believe it) that some of those people also happen to be followers of Islam (whether they are truly devout is a different matter). It ought to be legitimate to criticise those people, who happen to be followers of Islam, and want to blow up trains, without it being seen as a criticism of all followers of Islam. To assume that all followers of Islam are violent protesters is ridiculous. To assume that no violent protester is a follower of Islam seems to be contrary to the available evidence.

If the word "Islamophobia" is applied to those that want to criticise (misguided) Islamic violent protest then that is a misuse of the word "Islamophobia".

With "Palestinian" he is saying that some believe Palestinians to be always right in every case - just as some believe Israel to be always right in every case. You may also believe that those Palestinians that bomb Israelis are justified in doing so or you may believe the Israeli army bombing civilians in Lebanon are similarly justified. It is however, a legitimate point of view to suggest that the murder of innocents, whether Israeli or Palestinian, is not helpful to a rational solution to the problems that have beset the Middle East. Again it is the view that he ascribes to “the left” that to criticise one is to criticise all – this is what Mr Wilson is hoping to satirise. It is certainly not to criticise all Palestinians - some of whom will be good and innocent and some of whom will not (just as some Israelis may be good and innocent and some may not.)

This interpretation, which I believe reflects Mr Wilson's view is in direct contradiction to the interpretation made by some members of this forum. Where quotes have been taken out of the context of the "meaning as I've encountered them" they have led people to believe that Mr Wilson is Islamophobic and Racist. If those phrases are placed back into context they show the precise reverse. Mr Wilson ridicules the suggestion that people should be treated according to race. The clear implication of his piece, if read in the whole, suggests that he thinks all people stand or fall on their individual merits.

Through the misunderstanding of his article some members of this forum have placed pressure on Mr Wilson, through his employer, that many people find frightening. If someone reads the article and takes the meaning to be that which I have described, not how some on this forum have described it, and then sees that he has been persecuted by “Muslim activists” they may well think the persecution unreasonable. They then might fear unreasonable persecution themselves – should they be misunderstood. This is the way in which fear can spread. This is the way in which Islamophobia can spread.

Please read the article again and think about whether you are advancing or damaging the cause of British Muslims.

What the man said was simply the truth. Too bad Orange sacked him, the wimps.

I'm sure if it was anti-Jewish, you guys would be just as angry! Way to be fair and unbiased!

I have another term for you guys:

Mohammad: the pedophile psycopath murderer I drew a picture of, and am posting all over my city.

Silence dissent, condemn those who would dare to express what everyone else is thinking. Congratualations on a job well done. <p><p>


In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

Doesn't this just further the paranoia that Muslims are out to get people?

Have you ever noticed that there are Jewish jokes on Family Guy or other TV programs but no one seems to give much of a care. What happened to free speech and being able to say what you want in jest? When you have lost the ability to laugh at yourself, you need to take a step back and realize what makes you so much better then everyone else that you should get a free pass from criticism. Stereotypes are a great way to joke with someone because they are based on some grains of truth. I am an American born in Texas. I am sure you can think of some negative stereotypes to belittle me and I would have no problem joking around with you.
I still cannot believe you are happy you got someone fired for comments and not actions. I just find this site to be one of the most hypocritical sites I have ever come across. Making stereotypical comments about Jewish people in one article and then praising yourself for getting someone fired for doing the same thing. Your article about free speech seems to ring in deaf ears due to your current position to eliminate someone who was expressing their same right. Grow Up.

Sad day for freedom of expression. Good day for censorship. And an excellent clue on how to make you silly bastards angry.

Comparing light hearted humour ('family guy') to the growing filth of islamophobia has definately made me laugh!

It's not even non-muslims that we need to be concerned with. even so called muslims are on the islamophobia bandwagon. speak on bros - Satan will be proud of you.

Note that the MPAC-UK is so confident of itself that it literally brags about its antics.

"Palestinians - archetype 'victims' no matter how many teenagers they murder in bars and fast food outlets. Never responsible for anything they do – or done in their name - because of 'root causes' or ‘legitimate grievances’."

We wonder whether he would have considered it appropriate to publish such 'humorous' definitions of 'racism' or 'Jews'? Probably not.

It certainly wouldn't have made as much sense. Hasidic Jews do not habitually set bombs off in bars and fast food outlets.

Then again, one understands Orange and their concern. Muslims do have a habit of murdering people who speak ill of them in very ugly ways, and to expand their wrath to family members, friends, members of similar ethnic groups or creeds to the blasphemer, or random passers-by, as a warning to others not to brand them as homicidal psychotic maniacs. Most people tend to have the good sense to be terrified by such tactics, and I suspect the management at Orange is no exception.

By your every action, peaceful or otherwise, you prove that Islam cannot function in a modern world. Very soon in this country you will completely lose what little credibility you have. You have taken a great step in this process by denying someone free speech and then boasting it has made the front pages of national newspapers. How naive, you have just made another one hundred thousand rods for your own backs.

"Have you ever noticed that there are Jewish jokes on Family Guy"

Never mind that - have you not noticed that Inigo did write derogatory definitions about Judaism and Christianity as well?

Is he anti the three Abrahamic religions? No - his definitions are not given as his views but those of the Left.

MPAC have grossly misinterpreted this article, and judging by the growing commentary on the matter, have shot themselves in the foot big time.

Will you apologise when Orange clear him?

Islam and humor are 2 words one seldom sees together.

I can't see how this is anything but counterproductive. Getting this guy fired is only going to make him and his supporters more angry at Muslims then before.

It's wrong to win a clash of opinions by hurting the other side.

to Ahmed

Ahmed you father should have educated you better and if you don’t have a father then your mother may God bless her and if you don’t have a mother then I will do it for you. I will assume that you understand the meaning of truth. So, even though we did not have what we asked for that is we the British public and the victim’s family an open PUBLIC ENQUIRY we will go along with Blair’s version of truth (though I feel like shooting myself in the foot for saying that, remember 48mins). Ok Ahmed back to the truth, if we say Muslims committed the 7/7 that is bull because it is men who commit these bombing and who happen to also be Muslims. Is there such a thing as a Muslim murderer, a Muslim thief? Of course not, and why not Mr Ahmed because Muslim and Islam is a religion and in Islam there is no pope to dictate to you so Islam is about you and your conscience. Islam does not condone suicide nor does it believe in collective guilt or punishment. No Muslim should be guilty because some other Muslim had committed suicide. Do the Jews living in Israel feel guilt terrorist MENACHEM BEGIN a Zionist Israel first Prim Minster was most wanted dead or alive by the British as the world’s number terrorist for blowing up the King David Hotel and killing 99. For carrying kidnaps, murders and blowing up of soldiers in Palestine and blowing up of British persons in mainland Britain. While the Palestinians whose lands the British occupied did NOTHING against the British. There was no Israel then. They could not wait to have the British out so that they can start terrorising the Palestinian population who at the time consisted of farmers. SO WHO IS THE TERRORIST a jew a zionist? I guess not. Islam for Muslims and suicide bombers for the law of the land and ultimately for their God not for other Muslims.
So you see the truth is not what it seems to be. You probably will die from a heart attack before you get blown up. These people like Inigo Wilson have an agenda which is not hidden if you just open your eyes and engage your brain before you think.

Daniel:

Where do you live in a zoo because i fear for the poor animals that have to be near you.

make sure you sign your pics. You might get an award for it. It is not often that animals get to draw so give it your best shot.

Don't forget now to post us a copy

Perfection

I am sorry to perhaps be the first one to tell you that it is not Muslims that have the problem it is maybe that you should go and see a shrink because you have just said you might be suffering from paranoia. And if you come across any one with the same condition then you can recommend the same shrink to them.

Call on us again when you feeling better and good luck

Sorry to be negative but this isn't a success - yet. We still have to be pro-active and complain to Orange, and tell everyone we know to complain too. The hypocrites who are moaning on about 'free speech' (even though this isn't an issue of free speech, it's an issue of Orange's customers being offended at their choice of 'spokesperson' - why should be continue to be loyal Orange customers when the person who heads the department that REPRESENTS them hates Muslims, 'lefties' and just about everyone that isn't a rabid right-wing bigot?) are also emailing Orange to persuade them to reinstate this nasty individual. So let's keep up the pressure everyone. And if they do reinstate him, that's when we get into action and terminate our contracts with Orange – every single one of us. As has been said here time and again - if Wilson’s vitriol towards Muslims was aimed at any other group it would be widely agreed that his comments were unacceptable and he would have been fired in a second. At one time black people were commonly stereotyped in negative ways, as were Jewish people and Irish people. That isn't acceptable today, and rightly so. We have to make sure that Islamophobia isn't acceptable either. People who say that Islam is a religion and religions are fair game are missing the point too. The Danish cartoons and now Inigo Wilson's article depicts Muslims as terrorists. There is no intellectual ‘criticism’ of Islam involved. It is simply a crude stereotype of a very large group of people that fits in very nicely with the current political climate, follows on from the anti-Muslim hysteria in the media and government, and serves a particular agenda. And this MUST be challenged at all times. People say that Christianity and Judaism are criticised all the time with no big hoo-ha from followers of those religions. But when was the last time that you saw a cartoon of Jesus with a bomb on his head or an article mocking Jewish people and calling them all extremists? Bush and Blair are Christians and are responsible for a heck of a lot of death and destruction; Sharon and Olmert are Jews and the same goes for them. They have literally killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims over the last few years alone. And yet it is Muslims themselves that we see being painted as ‘extremists’ time and again – the political motives for this being plainly obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence. And people are quite frankly getting SICK of the hypocrisy and wilful ignorance. This is not an issue of freedom of speech and everything to do with challenging this relentless and dangerous witch-hunt of one group and one group alone. Inigo Wilson MUST go.

Samuel Coates, nice try but Inigo Wilson's definitions are certainly NOT those of the left. Can you imagine anyone on the left ridiculing Muslims and Palestinians in that crude, arrogant and ignorant manner? Seems like you're the only one around here who has misinterpreted the article buddy. I suggest you read it again.

What a remarkably petty victory. Would he have been suspended for anti-Semitism? Certainly, though I'm not sure he doesn't have a right to that as well.
Drawing the comparison is a little ridiculous because there aren't global Jewish terror networks; the man had a point, which you make on his behalf resoundingly, that tagging any Western unease about Muslim extremism as "Islamophobia" is dishonest. Hounding people out of their jobs only adds that unease, and, Insha Allah, hastens the day when Westerners stop coddling Muslim sensitivites in their own countries. So, enjoy it while it lasts, but I have a better idea: ditch the superstition and join the modern world.

Englishman said: "chill out man and get a sense of humour!"

Ha ha, all Muslims are terrorists...wow that is just HILARIOUS, what wonderful wit! And mocking the plight of the Palestinians - well that must be the funniest thing like, EVER! Perhaps it's you that actually needs to look up the definition of 'humour' Englishman? Oh and look up 'smug ignorant bigot' while you're at it. Meanwhile, I'll get my complaint in to Orange, I am on their network and I am disgusted by Inigo Wilson's nasty attitude, not only towards Muslims but also towards anyone who has the apparent fault of showing some humanity. I wonder how on earth this completely insensitive man has made it in the world of PR up until now?

Salams,

Congratulations are nothing but hollow words to MPAC, especially from people who do not contribute.

Please put your money where you mouth is and help MPAC do more by making a regular donation.

well done to mpak this is the way to show that we as muslims must must unite as one ummah.

I am sure Orange view these comments. So I would just like to say Orange those Orange adverts you have in the Cinemas - The Board of directors, who belittle all those actors, who think they are would be directors are great.

Now on a serious note - Daniel for you I'll have to put my MR T mode on...

Everybody knows the mans a fool!,he's crazy,he sees people that ain't there,and he's always talkin' in circles!

And guess what Daniel you pansy

You messed up fool, now I gotta mess you up. It's the law, sucker!

Muslims O Muslims

Where do I begin? Ok which other Islamic organisation in the UK that is doing what MPAC is attempting to do, to give Muslims a voice? The answer is a resounding NONE.

MPACK is fighting your battles on a shoestring less than £800 budget a month. Most of it paid for with their own money, time and dedication.

Shame on you so called Muslims

What kind of people are you? Take a good look at yourselves! I am sorry to say CHEAP.

£1 a week is too much for you.

Your archenemies the Zionist propagandists machines operate on budgets worth millions of pounds.

Wake Up! From your slumber of indifference and champion these people cause because they are championing Muslims every day 24/7

Look it's very simple. It's racism.

Had the comments been about black people or any other ethnic minority - they would have brought back the death penalty for the man.

But because it's Muslims... oh go on, give them a good bashing. Muslim bashing... the trendiest thing around

Oh and by the way. Shirin is right.

Anti-Muslim groups get state funding and encouragement.

MPAC needs us.

you lost your freedom of speach through britians dreconian laws! now live with it!

mpac well done! seems like muslims are the only ones defending civil liberties of its people!

MPACUK SUCKS, and muslims are crackpots ... maybe not one of 10 000 pieces

Fire somebody because of some blog blah or forum posts is just crazy. If he ever speaks out in public occurance, he should be punished or even jailed. But bust someone for anonymous Internet chit-chat?!

Daniel & DrCruel (is this equivalent of jewish Dr Mengalas? Merkel will give you German passport on the spot. Go for it thug)

The jewish terrorist organisation is called IsraHELL

As for blowing up people ask the Brit government about the recent celebration by the hellish goons of terrorism.

Dressing up as Arabs and blowing up mosques, markets, childrens playground, mass destruction of civil facilities, polluting environment, dropping bombs on disabled children is the ULTIMATE IN TERRORISM.

Just because some grotesque whore/
bastard states follow that political agenda as well as baking people does not take away the term TERRORISM.

Blowing 100,000 people on behalf of IsraHELL is IsraHELLI TERRORISM.

i'll tell you whats CRAZY!!

people using freedom of speach to insult peoples religion but live in a country where "freedom" and civil liberties are eroding due to paranoia and dictators in parliment.

WE have no freedom

when i here people in our country claiming to defend their "freedom"...its crazy! your trying to defend something which we don't have.

our governments dictates to us how we should live...if we speak up against them it amounts to terrorisim...thats not freedom and democracy... its enslavment... its dictatorship

seems like moslems organisations like MPACUK are the only ones with brains to defend the right of its own people..so who will defend ours?

whos CRAZY? US or the MOSLEMS?

People who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.
think bout it!

Freedom of speech is not being attacked. When hitler's propaganda men were saying that all jews were terrorists, it would have not been acting against their rights to silence them and shut these propaganda men up - in fact we had a war in which most countries got together and largely did that.

This should not be a muslims-only thing - black people made the mistake in the 70s and 80s when fighting for their racial rights in britain - of not bringing on more races and "others" onside - the racism still arife in commercial britain is problematic for asians, muslim or not, far eastersn, korean or not, european, south american... the bottom line is there's lots of total dicks inside companies who go around looking down on "foreign blood" and they are the same people who are the sad cause of the chauvinism that won't go away from our cities in the west.

I'm glad that orange are proving more than just a reliable network - they obviously have sensitivity to things like decency, progress and rights.

Long live the nonviolent revolution! And let's not forget rachel corrie! She didn't just NOT cuss palestine, or NOT support it, or NOT believe in its rights - god dammit she went over there and stood in front of an apartheid bulldozer driver and she DIED for palestine. fuck the racist buffoon mentioned and remember that OUR team, the people who work for peace, don't have any one colour or religion or nationality or accent - we are the people of the globe!