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Why The Next Election Must Be About Foreign Policy Print E-mail
Sunday, 13 August 2006
A large number of Muslim groups and three Muslim MP’s and peers have published an open letter recently to Tony Blair warning that there is a definite link between British Foreign policy and the increasing radicalisation of British Muslims.

To most of us this may seem like a statement of the obvious.  To Tony Blair, his Cabinet and some Tory MP’s this verges on treason.

The first to rush out and try to deny a link was the ever reliable Blairite, Douglas Alexander, whose shrill response to the statement described it as “dangerous and foolish” on the day of publication, he went on to add, “No government worth its salt should allow its foreign policy to be dictated to under the threat of terrorism”.  Next to enter the fray, Kim Howells from the Foreign Office described the letter as “facile and dangerous”.  Both Alexander and Howells are members of “Labour Friends of Israel”.  Clearly stung by the criticism from such a wide group of Muslim representatives, the number 10 spin machine despatched beleaguered Foreign Secretary, Margaret Beckett, to say that drawing a link between government policy and the terror threat would be the “gravest possible error”. She said such suggestions were “part of a distorted view of the world, a distorted view of life. Let's put the blame where it belongs: with people who wantonly want to take innocent lives.”  Curious to note how she could find the words to rush out her statement on this topic yet when innocent civilians were being slaughtered in Lebanon and Gaza she couldn’t see the point of telling the Israelis to stop the massacre.  Worried about the devastatingly honest analysis, John Reid the Home Secretary joined in to say it was a “dreadful misjudgement”.  Not to be outdone, Tories such as Michael Howard have added their two-penneth by saying the letter had given “ammunition” to the extremists.

How is it that a genuine attempt at explanation by a wide range of Muslim groups and individuals is being conflated with excusing terror by so many?  It may not be the massage per se but the messenger.  Consider the fact that analysing the reasons for radicalisation is a necessary first step in combating this very pressing problem and then consider that this group are not the first to make the link.  Think tanks, investigative journalists and academics have all pointed out that there is an undeniable link between British foreign policy and increasing radicalisation of some British Muslims.  On BBC’s Newsnight programme Peter Taylor, an investigative journalist researching radicalisation stated that the common theme in his interviews of Muslims around the world was the word “Iraq”.  Is he facile and dangerous? How about Chatham House? Or the JIC?  Arming the extremists?

To add insult to injury, Tony Blair, one of the architects of the current problems, went out of his way to state that Muslims suffer from a victim mentality in a speech given in Los Angeles he said “Islamist extremism's whole strategy is based on a presumed sense of grievance that can motivate people to divide against each other.”  Presumed sense of grievance? Just take a look at the statistics around the world and you’ll see who the real victims of terror are.  Leaving aside peaceful protests and its illegality for now, the Bush-Blair war on Iraq has resulted in over 100,000 civilians dying.  Are we to let this evil, this act of terror to go unchallenged?

Not content with levelling the charge of playing the victim, Blair and his Israel lobby continue to vilify Muslims as alien to British society.  The increasingly used term “Judeo-Christian” values is used to emphasise the schism.  The reality is that all three Abrahamic religions share common values but the term is used because it is deliberately exclusive.  There are indeed socio-economic problems faced by Muslims in Britain that are to be addressed in part by the Muslim communities themselves, but politically, many Muslims born and bread in Britain have been happy to identify with the mainstream until the events of September 11th 2001 led them to re-examine the hypocritical policies of our government.

Perhaps the chorus of disapproval to the letter would be understandable if Britain’s Foreign Policy were truly independent.  The reality however shows that our country’s foreign policy is largely governed in Washington DC regardless of which combinations of parties are in power on both sides of “the pond” and domestically there is a very active Israel lobby that does indeed influence Britain’s foreign policy.  As proof, examine the reaction to William Hague’s remarks that the Israeli response to Hezbollah was disproportionate.  The backlash from Jewish donors to the Conservative party has begun as reported in The Spectator.  Further, the respective “Friends of Israel” groups in all three mainstream parties exist to hold more than just tea parties.  Post the Suez Crisis, an independent British Foreign Policy would be both novel and welcome.

One of the most nauseating things about witnessing the on-going debate as a British Muslim is the assumption that “Western values”, a thorny notion at the best of times, are somehow assumed to be superior to the values of Muslims.  Which values are we talking about?  The sidelining of the UN, the lies to Parliament, the support of compliant dictators in Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan, the use of military force that results in the deaths of 100,000’s of innocent civilians?

The critics of the letter have suggested that the British public should dictate the direction of foreign policy, if only that were the case.  When two million people marched against the Iraq war in February 2003, the biggest demonstration in the history of our nation, did the politicians listen?  The scheme to attack Iraq was hatched long before in the US and the military campaign had a momentum that didn’t give a hoot about British public opinion.  This seminal event exposed the democratic deficit in our nation.  We have helped create a situation where a nation is on the verge of civil war, British public opinion is firmly against the war and occupation but our leadership seems incapable to either acknowledge personal fallibility, contemplate political failure or accept its effect on domestic radicalisation.

Muslims in Britain, young and old, feel increasingly bewildered by events in both the international and domestic arenas.  What are we to do?  Doing nothing is no longer a realistic option.  If foreign policy is such a central issue to our lives then we must all register to vote, we must examine our local candidates as individuals instead of representatives of parties, for existing MP’s, examine their voting records and speeches in the House of Commons, interview them, interview the new candidates as well, ask them direct questions such as their views on Palestine, Iraq and domestic terror legislation, take what they say with a pinch of salt, only vote for the candidates that genuinely convince you that they will represent your interests, remain politically engaged.  Most importantly hold your politicians to account.  Those that do not represent your interests should be voted out.


The full text of the letter:-

“Prime Minister, As British Muslims we urge you to do more to fight against all those who target civilians with violence, whenever and wherever that happens.

It is our view that current British government policy risks putting civilians at increased risk both in the UK and abroad.

To combat terror the government has focused extensively on domestic legislation. While some of this will have an impact, the government must not ignore the role of its foreign policy.

The debacle of Iraq and now the failure to do more to secure an immediate end to the attacks on civilians in the Middle East not only increases the risk to ordinary people in that region, it is also ammunition to extremists who threaten us all.

Attacking civilians is never justified. This message is a global one. We urge the Prime Minister to redouble his efforts to tackle terror and extremism and change our foreign policy to show the world that we value the lives of civilians wherever they live and whatever their religion.

Such a move would make us all safer.”




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Readers have left 40 comments.
Rory Winter: Quote

Congratulations on an excellent article! As for the Labour ministers' reaction, well, it was the predictable reflex action of a government that has no credibility left among the electorate desperately fighting for survival.

Not that we should understimate this nest of vipers. In their present state, both in the UK and the US, these neo-conservatives and Nu-Labourites are very dangerous entities indeed.

That is why my advice is, don't wait for the elections, start the political lobbying campaign now! They have to be attacked like a spreading virus and its strain must be identified.

Both Blair's minority government and the Bush regime rely on the lowest form of political brainwashing: that of race hate.

Despite the fact that, here in the UK, we have laws about race discrimination, the Blairites have employed a bigoted policy of guilt by association in order to incriminate Muslims.

There is, I believe, a case for prosecuting them under the existing laws in the UK as well as under European Human Rights and this should be seriously examined.

The issue of a government's deliberate and cynical abuse of race relations laws for its own political gains is, of course, a very serious matter indeed. It concerns every UK citizen regardless of race, colour or creed.

I would, therefore, appeal to Muslim organizations to pursue this matter and to to do so by finding your natural allies in the wider community.

If we do not fight this issue of basic Civil Rights together then we shall all suffer under the Blairites' new totalitarianism.
(1) 2006-08-14 01:51:30
Rory Winter: Quote

Congratulations on an excellent article! As for the Labour ministers' reaction, well, it was the predictable reflex action of a government that has no credibility left among the electorate desperately fighting for survival.

Not that we should understimate this nest of vipers. In their present state, both in the UK and the US, these neo-conservatives and Nu-Labourites are very dangerous entities indeed.

That is why my advice is, don't wait for the elections, start the political lobbying campaign now! They have to be attacked like a spreading virus and its strain must be identified.

Both Blair's minority government and the Bush regime rely on the lowest form of political brainwashing: that of race hate.

Despite the fact that, here in the UK, we have laws about race discrimination, the Blairites have employed a bigoted policy of guilt by association in order to incriminate Muslims.

There is, I believe, a case for prosecuting them under the existing laws in the UK as well as under European Human Rights and this should be seriously examined.

The issue of a government's deliberate and cynical abuse of race relations laws for its own political gains is, of course, a very serious matter indeed. It concerns every UK citizen regardless of race, colour or creed.

I would, therefore, appeal to Muslim organizations to pursue this matter and to to do so by finding your natural allies in the wider community.

If we do not fight this issue of basic Civil Rights together then we shall all suffer under the Blairites' new totalitarianism.
(2) 2006-08-14 05:22:47
Chris: Quote

Why you must get your community in order before the next election then maybe you'll be ready to swap swords for ballot slips.
(3) 2006-08-14 05:34:20
Rory Winter: Quote

Even as a non-Muslim I find the Labour ministers' hostile response to the Muslim Community's appeal offensive in the extreme.

Time is long overdue when the overtly imperialist policies of this minority Government are exposed for what they are: a shabby, racist excuse for the ruthless exploitation of the developing world.

This racism is so deeply ingrained in western culture that only few westerners are honest enough to see it. All the more reason for those who recognise it to do everything in their power to expose it.

Most white, UK politicians are simply too afraid to tackle the issue so they toe the line whilst the real nasties like Blair, Reid, Howell & Co do the racist rabble-rousing on behalf of Zionism.

The Mainstream Media are mostly their paid hacks. Only those of us who are concerned about the Blairite Neocon attack on Civil Rights will speak up for as long as we are allowed to.

Just as the Civil Rights Movement in the USA was able to grow into a much larger umbrella movement beyond the black community so must the Muslim community in the west do so.
(4) 2006-08-14 05:54:44
AL: Quote

Once again the leaders of the Muslim community do more harm to that community than good.

Do they really expect the British Government to base foreign policy around the potential threat from a small number of extremists from within a minority which forms 1.5% of the population.

Is the British Government meant to adopt the same attitude to all Islamic countries regardless of their political ideals?

Seriously, how do you think this looks to the majority of the polulation.

And before I get labelled a Bushist Blairite I'm certainly no supporter of the US and was against us getting involved in Iraq.
(5) 2006-08-14 08:05:59
Rory Winter: Quote

The writer who slates Hamas and Hizbollah seems to have a very blinkered view of Middle Eastern geopolitics if s/he thinks that either the USA or Israel is taking a "responsible" approach.

Hizbollah is a resistance organization which has deservedly earned world-fame and it is Israel that has taken a political bashing out of their arrogant miscalculation!

What MPCAUK and the Muslim Community has done through this letter is to have, in a very moderate manner, voiced the views of many others (probably the majority of Britain) in condemning the Blairites' foreign policy.

But trying to reason with this government is like talking to a brick wall. In their hubris, they will not listen and, as a result, will continue to radicalise even the moderates.

Fine, that is a dialectic I do not object to as British politics, as George Galloway has put it, is in desperate need of a clean-up!
(6) 2006-08-14 09:48:01
Rory Winter: Quote

Al, British foreign policy is more or less based on Neocon lines (re the Project for a New American Century) and has nothing to to do with the interests of this country or its population!

Why do you think that Blair is (politely, in my opinion, I can think of better words) called a 'poodle'? Because he takes his orders from Bush and Rupert Murdoch.

You won't agree with this, of course, because you're hell-bent on stigmatising the MPCAUK which is doing an excellent job despite all the innate racism it has to put up with in a country still suffering from a post-imperialist hangover.
(7) 2006-08-14 09:55:45
george orwell: Quote

"Both Blair's minority government and the Bush regime rely on the lowest form of political brainwashing: that of race hate."

race hate? then how come two of the suspects arrested last week were white?

let me spell it out for you in clear terms, since you are clearly an idiot of the highest order

islam is not a race. its a religion.
(8) 2006-08-14 10:51:49
Rory Winter: Quote

"george orwell": Of course Islam is a religion but in the eyes of racists like Tony Blair it is associated with the non-white world.

Blair is certainly no fool. As a trained lawyer he knows he cannot incite racism by too direct an accusation. But he cynically uses race-hate through guilt by association, scape-goating Islam as "terrorists" when the real terrorists are Blair and his ilk.

There is a strong relationship between imperialism and racism and, sadly, both are ingrained in the British psyche.
(9) 2006-08-14 10:59:39
Rory Winter: Quote

The political issue shouldn't just restrict itself to a challenge on Nu Labour's Neocon Foreign Policy. It should also attack the Blairites on Domestic Policy, especially in regard to the manner they have used the fake "War on Terrorism" to severely curtail our collective freedom.

Those who stubbornly refuse to see that Blair's idea of 'freedom' is actually totalitarianism don't just need their eyes tested but their heads as well!
(10) 2006-08-14 11:37:16
lulu: Quote

Wikipedia has a list of all the friends of Israel(labour, lib dem and tories). Muslims across the UK should write to MP's and make it clear why they will not vote for them! Israeli political campaigns are very well orchestrated and consistent. Watch and Learn!
(11) 2006-08-14 11:51:23
A Former Labour Party Voter: Quote

When Hitler wanted to manipulate the people for his own political ends he created a public fenzy against the jews which stopped people questioning his policies and eventually his foreign policies.

The Labour Party and Blair are also currently manipulating politics through the media but the difference is that israelis now think that they are on the other side and so are now also helping to create the same frenzy against muslims.

The page fillers at gutter press papers had nothing to write about except innocent muslim civillians getting slaughtered and Blair and the Labour Party not helping them and so they were thrown a bone in the form of 26 arrests for alleged terrorism by Brown from the Labour Party who should have been frozen from using the great british public's assets to fund his illegal invasion of iraq.

The gutter press then thought it would sell more papers if they found the alleged guilty by trial through the gutter press rather than the courts and tried to write as little as possible about their innocence and forthcoming court trials as much as they could.

It also gave 24 hour news channels something to talk about instead of the innocent muslims who have been killed as a result of Bush, Blair and the Labour Partys foreign policy.

If foreign policy had nothing to do with anything why have spain and britain been attacked for their part in the iraq war which has put us all at risk. Both had never witnessed terrorist actions prior except from their own shores who Blair wanted to negoiate with prior to the Labour Partys new foreign policy against muslims.

If 9/11 was the key what is Blair and the Labour Party doing in afghanistan and especailly iraq, killing thousands of innocent muslims. May be the killing of innocent Muslim in afghanistan and iraq can be justified by Bush, Blair and the Labour party.
(12) 2006-08-14 12:59:08
Ray: Quote

There are good and bad people in every race/regligion but if you have any issues with UK politics then leave the UK. If you live here, then live by our rules, if you cannot do this leave, leave, leave.

And you wonder why Bush/Blair (in your petty words) promote 'race hate' - you bring it on yourselves and get what you deserve.
(13) 2006-08-14 13:16:38
Rory Winter: Quote

Ray, I don't know if you're a paid-up member of the BNP or not but your ignorant comments are quite nauseating.

Rules? What rules? If you mean what the tinpot dictator Blair is up to then you are beneath my contempt.
(14) 2006-08-14 15:07:02
Richard: Quote

Fine words on this by Asghar Bukhari on Sky News this afternoon.

I can't believe that this discussion is still taking place.
(15) 2006-08-14 15:50:00
Edwin: Quote

Rory - You are found out! You converted to Islam last year - confess, you false dissembler!
(16) 2006-08-14 19:03:49
mapatel: Quote

Kim Howells’, former chair of the Labour Friends of Israel group and now Minister for the Middle East

Max Hastings - Guardian

"Says it All" and by the way who let "M -Howard " out of the cupboard!

are you thinking what ....
(17) 2006-08-14 21:13:04
Arif: Quote

What a joke! For all the outrage over foreign policy I bet most of our muslim "brothers" just voted Labour at the last election like sheep (Tower Hamlets excluded). Muslims should show some brains and think for themselves for a change.
(18) 2006-08-14 21:20:37
Rory Winter: Quote

Edwin: well, having lived and worked within Islamic cultures I guess my mind was opened :^)

From childhood I remember the evening call of the muezzin and that remains with me forever as a symbol of this great religion.

In contrast to this the petty, machiavellian dealings of the Blairites and the Neocons are as of nothing.
(19) 2006-08-15 03:16:59
Tony: Quote

The first Islamist terrorist plot against New York's World Trade Centre was carried out on 26 February 1993 with a car bomb under one of the twin towers. It killed six people but failed in its aim of bringing the whole building down. To achieve that, another plot was hatched.

Meanwhile, British and American foreign policy was focused not on the Islamic world, but on the unstable transition of former communist countries to democracy. Twice during the Nineties, Nato launched military interventions in the Balkans, both aimed at protecting Muslim populations in Bosnia and Kosovo. What Middle East policy there was focused on diplomatic efforts, led by President Clinton, to negotiate lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians.
This was hardly a Western war against Islam. Britain and America spent much of the Nineties trying to prevent conflicts or to resolve them. At worst, as shamefully in Rwanda, they simply ignored them. They were transparently not running a conspiracy to trample the Muslim faithful underfoot. The people who depicted it that way were a tiny minority telling lies to justify murder.

But things have changed. The argument that terrorism is, in fact, a response to Western actions overseas has gained currency. It was voiced most recently on Saturday in an open letter by a number of influential British Muslim leaders to Tony Blair. The Prime Minister's policy in the Middle East, they said, puts British lives at risk. The implication is that the young Britons who last week were accused of plotting to blow up passenger planes in mid-air would have been less susceptible to al-Qaeda recruitment had Britain not fought wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Policy should be changed, they said, to avoid giving ideological 'ammunition to extremists'.

There is indeed a plausible argument that military action in recent years has made Britain less, not more, secure. In particular, the conduct of the war in Iraq, regardless of the virtues of removing Saddam Hussein from office, has been riddled with error. The absence of weapons of mass destruction, removal of which was the premise for war, has undermined trust in the Prime Minister. Meanwhile, engagement in Iraq has made it harder to secure victory in Afghanistan, where the anti-terror justification for war was rock solid.

But even within the bleakest possible analysis of Mr Blair's foreign policy, it is still simply not true that the West is waging war on Islam. Just as it is not true that the CIA was really behind the 11 September attacks or any other arrant conspiratorial nonsense that enjoys widespread credence in the Middle East and beyond. It is also a logical and moral absurdity to imply, as some critics of British policy have done, that mass murder is somehow less atrocious when it is motivated by an elaborate narrative of political grievance.

If young British Muslims are alienated, that is sad and their anger should be addressed. But anyone whose alienation leads them to want to kill indiscriminately has crossed a line into psychopathic criminality. Policy cannot be dictated by the need to placate such people.

British Muslim leaders are entitled, along with everybody else, to raise questions about the conduct and consequences of Mr Blair's foreign policy. But they have a more immediate responsibility to promote the truth: that Britain is not the aggressor in a war against Islam; that no such war exists; that there is no glory in murder dressed as martyrdom and that terrorism is never excused by bogus accounts of historical victimisation.
(20) 2006-08-15 21:16:19
Akmal: Quote

Tony - when exactly were inhumane and obscence sanctions most vigourously and gleefully imposed by the us on the iraqi people who also had to suffer bombing raids on their country day after day and who was carrying out the bombing.

As for helping the muslims in the balkans you may want to remind yourself that it was the late Robin Cook (god rest his soul) who wanted to intervene to help innocent civilians as foriegn secretary but had to settle for bombing from the air whilst hundreds of thousands of muslim were being displaced on a daily basis under the cover of bombardment.
(21) 2006-08-16 11:17:15
Rory: Quote

Tony, you said: "But even within the bleakest possible analysis of Mr Blair's foreign policy, it is still simply not true that the West is waging war on Islam."

You must live on a different planet. Either that or if you believe the above you're hiding in a tower of self-delusion.To see NATO as anything other than a military cat's-paw of USUK imperialism is what gives you away.

For those too young to remember, in the 'sixties NATO used to loudly proclaim itself to be a defensive organization which would dissolve itself if the Warsaw Pact were to do so also.Well, the WTO dissolved itself a long time ago. NATO didn't! Enough said.

Please don't pretend that NATO is an organization that promotes democratic stabilization.If you insist on doing so then you admit to all the world why you swallow the Bush/Blair Neocon bilge that Islam is not under attack by the West's imperialists.
(22) 2006-08-16 12:38:03
Ray: Quote

Rory, I am ashamed to have to admit that hypocrites such as you exist in this country. FYI: I am not in the BNP - it is people such as you though that fuel people's desire to join such an organisation.

Your comments are bigoted and clearly designed to create yet more attacks.... may YOU suffer as a result of your petty comments and bigoted views. A few years of solitary for you would suit us all.
(23) 2006-08-16 22:18:01
A Former Labour Party Voter: Quote

Ray, I find it difficult to accept that other people can make someone want to become a racist as I belive that once a racist always a racist until you see common sense.

The BNP now have more open support under Blair and the Labour parties foreign polices against muslim than at any time ever, simply bvecause it is now more acceptable now to say you are racist and in a perverted way even be proud of it and all this under the
smokescreen of fighting against so called democratioc plotical corectness which is there to give equal rights to everyone including minorities of a diferent colour.
(24) 2006-08-18 11:22:45
Ray: Quote

Former Labour

I accept your comments about the BNP and do not have any issue with the BNP, they are standing up for the indigenous people of Britain and I appplaude them for this.

I was purely responding to Tory Rory and his bigoted views and lurid accusations suggesting that I had to be a member of the BNP purely as I did not agree with his pathetic comments. He was in turn suggesting that being a member of the BNP is a negative thing whereas I do not feel it is. But, attitudes such as Rory's do make people want to fight back against the racist views against British people, in their own country, wanting to protect themselves against terrorists.

I disagree though that once a racist, always a racist. People change views based on experience and 9/11, mad hook preacher and other similar idiots on fuel hatred against their kind and in turn become racist against the messages and the deliverers of the messages.

If the cap/turbin fits.....
(25) 2006-08-18 21:27:13
Rory: Quote

The BNP is composed of low-brow racists who have swallowed the imperialist myth of white superiority most likely due to their own sense of inferiority and hate of the ruling classes.

They are violent racists, period.

They are not in the least bit interested in the welfare of Britons, only to obtain what power they can electorally.

Other than that they are the English equivalent of Hitler's brown-shirts: street thugs. Anyone who cannot see that needs their head examined.
(26) 2006-08-20 21:58:23
David X: Quote

Rory, why don't you go and live in another country, maybe somewhere where you will be tortured every day for being such a prick.
(27) 2006-08-21 20:35:09
Basil: Quote

Quote from the resignation letter of U.S. Ambassador John Brady Keisling, Feb. 27, 2003.

We spread disproportionate terror and confusion in the public mind, arbitrarily linking the unrelated problems of terrorism and Iraq. The result, and perhaps the motive, is to justify a vast misallocation of shrinking public wealth to the military and to weaken the safeguards that protect American citizens from the heavy hand of government."

Here is a fairminded human being who did not beat about the bush!

Told it as it is.
(28) 2006-08-27 13:29:00
Basil: Quote

To
David X, Ray, Edwin, Chris, AL and George Orwell, its like calling in the cavalry!

A closed mind is like a closed book; just a block of wood

In your cases you were never made into paper, you are a cut down tree trunk only good for the bone fire and that is saying much in your favour.

To Rory
you need a cavalry, these guys don't love you LOL

My advice is do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself. Though must admit not much chance of that happening to you.

You might as well be speaking to them in Chinese because they do not comprehend plain English.

It is clear that they are masking their true intent and ideologies like cowards while throwing dispersions on yours.

Fascists, racists and Zionists now wear a mask of respectability and normality.

You have to be brain dead to accept Roy’s declaration “I am not a BNP” and he goes on to infer that if you insult me enough I might consider joining them. What a nincompoop the forgotten Bas”turd” son of Hitler! More can be said about him but enough. He is not the issue or the problem.

MUSLIMS AND FAIR-MINDED PEOPLE UNITE!
(29) 2006-08-27 14:16:50
Basil: Quote

George Orwell (the man, not the rat that post his verbal diarrhea on this website)presented one of the most thorough visions of a behaviorally controlled society in "1984," a nightmare vision of a world in which government uses heavy-handed techniques to keep people thinking the right kinds of thoughts at any given time.
(30) 2006-08-27 19:40:46
Basil: Quote

Ray

says "if you live here then live by my rules or leave leave leave" goes on to say "BNP stand for the indigenous people of Britain"

Wow!

I disagree with you Ray and the British foreign policy can you suggest where I should leave leave leave to. On second thoughts just leave it.

The BNP thats the NF why change their name to British National Pigs. They Do not represent me, so I hear you say I am not idigenous but you dont know if I am black or white, English or Irish or even British you ignoramus your problem is that you don’t know what is indigenous British. Find a good book and try to read it you might learn something though I doubted.

So you can leave leave leave this website for good good good.
(31) 2006-08-27 20:05:15
Edwin: Quote

Basil:

You are not clever at insulting characterizations.

Sometimes known as 'namecalling', you offer these in lieu of substantive ideas...

When a genuine idea might enter your brain, do post it. The world will be amused...
(32) 2006-08-27 21:29:11
Basil: Quote

Edwin the world
Hogwash!

Don’t make me laff

There is nothing genuine about you or your partisans, so why the interest in me, this website or Muslims?

And what are your substantative ideas assuming any were demonstrated or can ever be? (I have to tell you I cannot contain myself from laughing)

You are right, a thing is what it is not what its called so name-calling your lot is a bad reflection on me to even acknowledge you. You are at best beneath contempt.

Now crawl back into your hole from whence you came. We are not interest in your prevarications, find an Islamaphobic site and crap in it
(33) 2006-08-28 15:54:26
Basil: Quote

Tony
few facts for you about terror to Bury your head in the sand

Tony:"First Islamist terrorist on 26 Feb 1993"

For 55 years the Pro-Israel media has indoctrinated Americans to associate terrorism with “Islam” and Arabs. In reality, it's Israel that invented modern terrorism as a means of its establishment

The first use of truck and car bombs as weapons of “terrorism” in the Middle East were committed by Jewish terrorists

On July 22, 1946 the first car bomb in the MidEast was used by the Irgun, a Zionist terrorist group led by Menachem Begin (Nobel Peace Prize winner) to blow up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem killing 91 people---41 Arabs, 28 Britons, and 17 Jews.

On January 4, 1948, the Zionist Irgun drove a truck loaded with explosives into the center of the Palestinian City of Jaffa, killing 26 and wounding 100 men, women, and children.

The Stern Gang, headed by Yitzhak Shamir, assassinated the British Colonial Secretary Lord Moyne in Cairo on November 6. 1944 and Swedish U.N. Envoy Count Folke Bernadotte in Jerusalem on September 17, 1984; both for advocating a just solution for the Palestinians.

Both terrorist groups, Irgun and the Stern gang, were responsible for the wholesale massacre of the village of Deir Yassin on April 9, 1948 killing 254 Palestinian men, women, and children. Menachem Begin even boasted of this massacre in his book “Revolt” calling himself “Terrorist Number One.”

Zionists in Israel committed the first airline hijacking on December 12, 1954 when the Israeli airforce forced a Syrian civilian plane to land inside Israel.

Due to Jewish terrorism the British abandoned Palestine and returned its Mandate to the U.N. on May 14, 1948.

Where is your Islamist?Busy getting murdered
(34) 2006-08-28 16:06:55
Edwin: Quote

Basil: Keep posting! Your remarks make the dull among us feel positively brilliant.

Muslims and fair-minded people unite!
Do the Muslims you write about include the kidnappers of the Fox newsmen who were forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint?
Now that's really fairminded!!
(35) 2006-08-29 02:16:59
Basil: Quote

Edwin don’t flatter yourself you can never be brilliant. . .dull yes.


Hahahaha

As if

If I kidnap you and call myself a Muslim or an Englishman and the Zionist Media Laps it up. Does it make it true that I am a Muslim?

You don’t know me yet alone my religion or beliefs. Or do you? I could be here speaking up for Muslims and yet I could be doing it from your sitting room.

Who knows who I am or what I believe?

So you and your propagandist media assume to know the kidnappers, ummmm
You need t learn "Don’t be taken in by what they do ALWAYS ask why they do it". This action has no benefit for Palestinian cause. If I worked for Mossad that is just the kind of operation I would conduct and they have done worse. They wrote the book on terror. Read and comment on my reply to your compatriot Tony.

You have Zionists kidnapping Palestinian officials on a daily basis on last count 25% of the Palestinian cabinet have been abducted/kidnapped/stolen do you honestly think they do not have the audacity to set up a stunts like this, kidnapping of reporters.

Converted them to Islam at a gun point what a laaafff you are sooooooo gullible

His looking at you
“You can fool some of the people all of the time and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.” George W. Bush, 'joking' at a Gridiron Club dinner,- Washington, D.C., March 2001

A word to the fool the super powers are playing with “No holds barred”. Think dirty tricks, thinks Mea culpa




PS.

You are beneath contempt
(36) 2006-08-29 20:46:30
Basil: Quote

This is for Edwin and his folkes

G Bush President of the United States of America

Filmed saying:
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful .. and so are we.
They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people AND NEITHER DO WE. We must never stop thinking about how best to defend our country”
(I bet they never stop thinking of new ways to harm their country if the means justify the end for example 9/11)

“I am the decider and I decide what is best” (Sanctioned 9/11)

“The United States of America is engaged in war against a ah ahya .. extremist group of FOLKES”
(Who are America at war with.. umm tell me again….extremist group of who? FOLKES

Well that idiot!

But what should we think about his ideological or should I say idiot-illogical followers and friends? Bunch of bloody idiots

More of G Bush Gaffs check it out
http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2005/presidents-speech-writer-p1.php
(37) 2006-08-29 23:31:14
Basil: Quote

G W Bush

Warning

"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."

And I always say that "birds of a feather flock together" The unrequited love of Blair for Bush

Edwin which one and his, if can be called policies, are you in love with?

Don't be shy about answering now cos already you have spilt your guts in hear
(38) 2006-08-30 08:42:06
Edwin: Quote

Basil -I've enjoyed our chats - but the MPACUK discussion director doesnt post some of my replies - I guess those that are most apposite - so I'll just leave you people to stew in your own juice-bye bye...
(39) 2006-08-30 12:38:28
Basil: Quote

How magnanimous of Edwin to say “bye bye”

And yet sordid as he is he can’t leave us in peace, he wants to see us stew in our own juices… I wonder who will put on the heat?

Edwin you are sick and twisted and worse you think that your are plausible

I hope you find a good soul and with it a peace of mind
(40) 2006-08-31 06:46:37
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