Er... Imran...

What type of Muslim mocks bearded men and Hijabi women? At least they are trying.

What have you done lately to help?

You need to "Perfect" your attitude bro.

And no MPAC I don't think you should stop your work because one hot head wants to "hold you to account".

Is he really even a Muslim or just pretending to be ?

isn’t the poster being 'slanderous' to all mpacer women and men?

It's ok calling an organization evil, or calling them idiots in your own childish way, but instead of slandering people, one needs to provide constructive criticism.

Instead of ranting and making it personal at least rant a point?

Anything but slander…that's the thing that will take you straight to hell. This doesn’t just apply to women and their tongues, and it certainly wont stop your beard from being burned to cinders. watch the tongue brother. Amen.

Perfection has never been a prerequisite for speaking - knowledge has! And I believe that's the import of Imran's message. However he has made the error of using a lack of external compliance as an indicator of ignorance and that's simply wrong. Many of the MPACUK's I've spoken to are sincere individuals, aggrieved by the indolence of those who should speak and yet remain silent. The situation in the UK and Ireland demands political engagement and if Imran requires daleel from the Quran and Sunnah I'll be happy to supply it. I might also add that MPAC's approach is to activate and encourage the maasaajid to step up - so their work is in unison with the ummah, not contrary to it.

Isn't the poster just mirroring the original article by generalising mpacuk members just as traditional practising muslims were generalised?

But he does have a point about designer hijabs and stylish beards - some muslims ape arab fashion without any religious intent but still call it sunnah. Those muslims who wear conservative western clothing are obviously following the sunnah (and the intention behind it) more closely.

Mpac is doing something imran khan may not be doing,so in away everyone is right in what they are trying to acheive.
Imran khan is probally using the language that sometimes mpac uses against masjid committes and so on.
Th goal is the same,to gain equal rights for all be they muslims-chrisitians or jews.

If our brother Imran is so holy why isn't he defending our rights on TV , if he think his perfect !
I might not have beard does that mean i don't understand Islam ?

If he is so perfect why doesn't he do the same thing as Asghar Bukhari and stand up on tv and defend us !

Your a hippy mate, Islam isn't about a competition who as the longest beard or who is fully covered!

MPAC are at the forefront of empowering British Muslims. That 'brother' is so deluded, I want to know what he has ever done for the humanity?

Of course - that's where I'm going wrong! My beard just isn't fluffy enough!! Thank you, Imran, for pointing out the error of my ways.

I didn't realise having a beard was a prerequisite to helping your fellow human beings.

None of us, any of us are true fully practising muslims and yet many strive to achieve the best we can. In our own little way we practise the Islam that we know we can. Some of it benefits us only as individuals some of it benefits others as well but it is still practising our Islam.

For one group to say the way we practise islam is better than the way the other group practise islam is totally out of order.

Taking the michael out of those who have beards and taking the michael out of those that do not does not really achieve anything except perhaps make others curse us. Then there are those that dress in a certain way taking the same michael out of those that dress in another way which I suppose is their idea of practising their Islam.

What is certain is that the only muslim better than another is in piety and one that holds a fellow muslim in such contempt well???

How we practise islam is of course a concern to us all and the question that a muslim should ask is who is my practise of islam really benefitting and who is it meant to please.

Afterall allah created mankind (personkind)as a test. Can we pass this test if we lock our hearts and minds away from what is happening to the ummah or for that matter to humans in the world and still expect allah to open the gates of heaven to us? hmmm....

It is sad to see brothers and sisters who regularly post on the MPACUK manipulated and pinned against one another.

Imran is wrong for the same reason the first article was wrong: Mass generalisation, unfounded accusations and emotional outburst. Both are extremely unhelpful and don’t achieve anything other than insult and categorise Muslims into boxes, disabling them from coordinated work. We are too busy insulting each other to notice and focus on events around. I don’t expect all Muslims to agree and hold hands, but it would be nice for Muslims active enough [read aware of their society and constrains we face as Muslims] to get out of this “blame mode”

The long and short of this debate is that, 1) We should be practising “Islam” not the perception of what Islam is, which I clearly wrong. 2) Non practising Muslims also need to start practising Islam fully. While the “Practising Muslims” are lacking some important components of Islam, such as their duty to society and other Muslims, “non Practising” active [or not] Muslims are also lacking some important components and need to fulfil their duty to their lord. Perhaps if each tries to attain what they are missing, this cycle of blaming the “other” can end.

There are NO prerequisite to helping humans, However as Muslims everything we do, we do it for the sake of Allah and his deen, we hope he will bless our actions and make them effective enough to have an impact. Therefore we should aim to please him and fulfil ALL his requirements, including: appearance, activism, kindness, attitudes etc. These things are all part and parcel of worshiping Allah SWT and it is every Muslim duty to hold themselves accountable and judge themselves harshly and analysis and find out what aspect of their deen they are lacking.



W Salam.

I don't need to know who MPAC members are, all I need to know is that they provide a discussion forum that is read by hundreds of thousands (Muslim and non-muslim) that is their greatest achievement.

Sometimes they get it wrong, but even when they do they atleast stir a debate which is good for us, it helps broaden our perspectives.

It doesn't matter to me if they have beards or not, or if they wear a burkah or a designer hijab or even neither of the above. All I see is intention and a concern for the ummah which on the whole has allways seemed to be very sincere.

A world wide web without an MPAC would be worse off, I don't agree with some of their posts all the time but would still encourage them to post them because it gives people like you and I an opportunity to debate.

I am not sure what other institutions MPAC have but this one must remain open.

Are you serious, or are you totally nuts! - can you claim There are NO prerequisite to helping humans - do you know anything about Islam, can you tell me which scholar has said this?

Zahra's self made Fatwas just get worse and worse! first you claimd that you dont break your prayer to save a human life, now you are saying that islam doesnt demand you save a human life in the first place!!

You are either insane or a part of some evil waky cult like group! Which one?

Ps evidence please - i dont want you rambling reply that does not answer the question.

i this Zahra needs to take Ali Baba's advice about complaining. Is she ever happy?

*Squints at picture*

Wow, when did Kate Bush become muslim?

Inayat (and maybe Ronnie):
Quoting Zahra".......There are NO prerequisite to helping humans........"
My understanding of what Zahra meant when she was trying to say "There are no prerequisites to helping humans" is that you do not have any qualification/justification in helping out humans. That you help humans out regardless no matter who you are or who they are or the reasons why.
Have you mistaken "pre-requisites" for "precedents"? If so, you've totally misinterpreted Zahra's message.
Zahra - clarify what you have written, it seems at least two people may have totally got the wrong idea of your message.
Inayat (and maybe Ronnie) - If Zahra meant in the same way as I interpreted it - Both of you should retract/apologise.

Inayat; I don't understand?? :Confused: There is NOTHING in Islam that says you "canNOT help others in distress, unless you are perfect". Therefore as Goalshan explained; you do not need qualification or justification or attain perfection in order to help others. If you can find in Islam, any such requirements, please share.

Maybe you need to read/comprehend what I wrote before you go on attack mode or ask for clarification. In any case, I understand you are hang-up on my contributions, but at least have some solid grounds for being so outranged, and stewing out all those insults. :)

Ronnie;
What is your point? And is your contribution to this discussion a half baked advised to me? I think you got the wrong side of the stick dear, the discussion is not how to make Zahra happy, nor is it relevant to personalise anything.

Goalshan, sometimes people will read, what they want to read. Somehow Inayat and Ronnie expected me to say/react in a certain way based on their pre-judgement of me. They replied to the effect, without reading what I actually wrote.

W Salam

Oh and Inayat: The long and short of what you quoted above is in simple terms: There are no prerequisite [precondition, requirements, conditions or qualifications] which need to be fulfilled before you help others. However as Muslims we do everything for the sake of Allah [including helping people] therefore we should aim to please him and fulfil all his duties, not pick and chose what we will do and not do.

I cannot make it anymore simpler for you dear. :)

W Salam.

does that include non muslims?

Thank you for clarifying this point - I apologise. For a moment i had a dread fear that Muslims were actually saying that it was ok to to allow people to be oppressed as it was not a requirement of the faith. I heard someone called Nas say in another post that you did not have to 'suffer' to be a Muslim, and I then with your comment I felt it might be some actual flawed thinking.

I am afraid you do not need to believe in God to do good deeds, just be yourself, be mature and know your place in the world. Reading the comments here and in other threads I despair of religion. And then I see what other religions get up to and argue about and I am very happy I am an athiest who is independent of thought and deed. Others should give it a go.

Well why are you so pro Israel then in all your other posts?

I must say it is refreshing to see a Muslim group allowing Muslims to hold them to account. I have never seen it before, and I do hope I see more of it.

It is the only way society can check its leadership - so well done.

ps i noted the poster Zarah doesnt seem to like accountability, but you cant please everyone hey :)

Forgive me but if i am correct the article is a comment by another member of the public 'in full'. I read the original comment and can confirm this.

The fact that he has had his comment given prominance is a good thing. You may not want members of the public given voice, but to call it manipulation is decietful.

This brother has disagreed with MPAC and I agree with his complaint (not his tone), when I saw MPAC give 'air' to the very complaint which, lets face it, is very harsh on MPAC itself, I felt MPAC had done the honourable thing and should have been commended for it.

One hardly sees any Muslim group being held accountable by the public EVER - and i was very heartened to see MPAC allowing itself to be censured.

I disagreed with MPAC's original post, and was going to post a rebuttal myself, which i would have hoped would have been given equal exposure as this comment. I would not have appreciated it, if you had called that exposure a manipulation.

If MPAC can give one view exposure, then they can give the opposing view the exact same exposure.

Colm - you despair of religion and yet it underscores every virtuous and noble precept that you hold dear - justice, peace etc. Atheism has had its chance and its fruits are evident - moral, ethical and social decline. You say we don't need religion, I say we've never been in more need of it.