As for the rest of Palestine, the majority had already been given to the Arabs in 1922. Jordan then preceded to ethnically cleanse it of Jews.

Today, its ruling Hashemite royal family governs a majority Palestinian population and refuses to give up any of former Palestine for a Palestinian homeland on the East Bank.

Boycott Jordan? No way. It doesn't even matter that Jordan expelled the entire PLO. It's not about the Palestinians.

It's not about Western "mistreatment of Muslims" (otherwise there would be calls to boycott Russian goods).

It's not about giving disenfranchised people land (otherwise MPACUK would be campaigning for the Kurds).

It's not about Muslims getting killed - otherwise we'd have to boycott American goods like your computer (which, by the way, was partially invented by Israelis!).

No - this whole thing is about Jews - specifically about Arab hatred of Jews, rooted in the Mufti Husseini of Jerusalem's relationship with Hitler.

This is why you guys are obsessed by the relatively benign Palestinian / Israeli conflict.

If it really was about human rights and dignity - you would be more taken with issues like Darfur, Tibet, Iran & Cuba.

Stop pretending to yourself. Embrace your inner-Nazi, admit that you just hate the Yahoodies and then go seek counseling.

"This is why you guys are obsessed by the relatively benign Palestinian / Israeli conflict."

Some people who read this site will challenge the above and talk about ZioNazis and genocide and ethnic cleansing. The facts are however:

1. With Israeli standards of healthcare and welfare extended to the Israeli Arabs and (to some extent and at various points in time i.e. when they have not been at war with Israel) the Arabs in historic Palestine since 1948 have experienced one of the highest population growths in recorded history. Hardly genocide then.

2. By contrast in every Arab country the Jewish community has been reduced by at least 99% of its pre-1948 level. However, when it is done by Muslims, we are not allowed to call it genocide or ethnic cleansing.

3. Best estimates are that, of Muslims killed in violence in the past 60 years, 0.1% have been killed by Israel and 90% by other Muslims.

The reason for the obsession is the same as the German radical right's obsession with the Jews - they are a convenient scape goat and basis on which to rally the Volksgemeinschaft (in the case of the German right) or Umma (in the case of MPAC et al).

"As for the rest of Palestine, the majority had already been given to the Arabs in 1922. Jordan then preceded to ethnically cleanse it of Jews".

Quite an interesting theory given that some israelis don't even except that palestine existed wouldn't you say???? although Islam has historicaly always protected the jews and ensured that they are able to practise their religion somehthing that has never in history been reciprocated.

"Today, its ruling Hashemite royal family governs a majority Palestinian population and refuses to give up any of former Palestine for a Palestinian homeland on the East Bank".

Isn't that because the israelis drove the palestinians who were in fear of their lives into neighbouring countries and so yes israelis would say that jordan is palestine wouldn't they???

"Boycott Jordan? No way. It doesn't even matter that Jordan expelled the entire PLO. It's not about the Palestinians".

Go on then tell us what it is about???

"It's not about Western "mistreatment of Muslims" (otherwise there would be calls to boycott Russian goods)."

No its about isrealis and their ethnic cleansing and contmept for humanity isn't it???

"It's not about giving disenfranchised people land (otherwise MPACUK would be campaigning for the Kurds)".

yOU MEAN KURDISTAN that has always been a part of Iraq??? Until the west supplied its close ally and best buddy saddam with chemicals to anhilate all he chose to do so.

"It's not about Muslims getting killed - otherwise we'd have to boycott American goods like your computer (which, by the way, was partially invented by Israelis!)."

My my anything that has ever been invented by israel or the us has only been because the god that muslims believe in allowed it to be created otherwise if it wasn't for Islam then we'd still be living in caves... good to know that israelis find the holy quran helpful in their quest to for knowledge.

"No - this whole thing is about Jews - specifically about Arab hatred of Jews, rooted in the Mufti Husseini of Jerusalem's relationship with Hitler."

You must be a mind reader - not

"This is why you guys are obsessed by the relatively benign Palestinian / Israeli conflict."

If being obsessed with the welfare of humanity and an oppressed people and wanting justice for them is a crime then it shows how sick we could become under a zionist regime.

"If it really was about human rights and dignity - you would be more taken with issues like Darfur, Tibet, Iran & Cuba".

Give it time at least so far its muslims 1 and a few more cases of injustice and isrealis 0.

"Stop pretending to yourself. Embrace your inner-Nazi, admit that you just hate the Yahoodies and then go seek counseling."

Wow powers to read minds and know inner thoughts, I thought only god could do that!!!

you should see a shrink although the bill could run into milions as your mind is absolutely polluted with nothing you say making sense except to your twisted, manipulative, biased self.

"1. With Israeli standards of healthcare and welfare extended to the Israeli Arabs and (to some extent and at various points in time i.e. when they have not been at war with Israel) the Arabs in historic Palestine since 1948 have experienced one of the highest population growths in recorded history. Hardly genocide then".

You must mean that jewish israelis whilst living in palestine have enjoyed all these benefits on palestinian soil since 1948?

"2. By contrast in every Arab country the Jewish community has been reduced by at least 99% of its pre-1948 level. However, when it is done by Muslims, we are not allowed to call it genocide or ethnic cleansing."

The only reason that that the jewish population may decline in some muslim countries is because they become muslims isn't it?

As for you not being allowed to call it this and call it that how can you when it only occurs as a figment of your imagination.

"3. Best estimates are that, of Muslims killed in violence in the past 60 years, 0.1% have been killed by Israel and 90% by other Muslims."

Give it over to the blame game their is no muslim blood on israeli hands is there and everything comming out of israel is totally untrue unless censored by the israeli ofense force isn't it?

"The reason for the obsession is the same as the German radical right's obsession with the Jews - they are a convenient scape goat and basis on which to rally the Volksgemeinschaft (in the case of the German right) or Umma (in the case of MPAC et al)."

Did this idea of your obsession onyl start after the invasion and ocupation of palestinian land by any chance or were the palestians supposed to just say go ahead and take my home???

Do you really think that the number of Jews in Muslim countries has declined because they have converted rather than because they have been driven out? If that is really what you think it is barely worth even talking to you.

I suppose you think 99% of Jews in Poland disappeared because they suddenly converted to Catholicism between 1939 and 1945.

The majority of Jews from countries has declined because Israel offer a lot of money for people to come and settle, and they pay you money per child, so is that not a BIG reason why jews have left a lot of countries, as you may notice more recently a mass migration from Russia etc to Israel.

But Pual M you carry on mate, you sound like a right nutter who if face to face would be like talking to a brick wall..... Joker that's what you are....and I must say you have made me laugh........

There is evident confusion between the decline in the number of Jews in proportion to Muslims throughout the Middle East over the last thousand years and the decline / collapse of the Jewish communities in the 18th - 21st centuries. There can be no doubt that very large numbers of people throughout the ME are descendants are Jews who converted to Islam. This can be evidenced in part by the clan / tribal groups that report discrimination against them as descendants of Jews. There is also evidence to show that Jewish communities were subject to various depredations ranging from outbreaks of violence to enslavement & shipment to the Americas and elsewhere. British diplomats provide very clear evidence of the status of Jews in ME prior to the advent of European colonialism. European, especially French, colonialism provided Jews for the first time with legal equality and thus Jews became associated with colonial domination. Thus with decolonialisation Jews became targetted. This coincided with the creation of Israel and the Arab Leagues pronouncement that violence should be directed against Jews in ME. In most ME states Jews were asset stripped, made stateless and then driven out. It is little wonder that Mizrachi Jews are amongst the most vociferously anti-Muslim and tend to vote for hardliner in Israel.
This of course conflicts with the history that Muslims tend to hear and expound, they prefer the fiction of the Golden Age of Islam in this matter. The denial of ME Jews experiences under Islam not only polarises the communities but it effectively diminishes Muslim capacity to progress in the real world.

I'd much rather talk about the decline in numbers of palestinians since 1948 and yes we all know that israelis wopuld like to carry on with their ethnic cleanisng of palestinian lands util every palestinian is either driven out of their lands or anhilated by over zealous israelis extremists.

Paulm it seem you are still spewing the same lies baout 90% of muslims being killed in the last 60 years have been killed by other muslims.
The french who kiled 3 million in algeria are muslims that news for me.
The russians killed 3 million in afghan i never knew the russians are muslims.
indians have killed a hundred thousand in kashmir i never knew the indians are muslims.
The russians have killed hundreds of thousands in chechnya i never knew the russians are muslims.
Serbs killed hundreds of thousands in bosnia i never knew serbs are muslims.
America has killed 3 million iraqis to date i never knew the americans are muslims.
israelis have killed tens of thosuands of palestinians i never knew jews were muslims.
the list carries on but your hatred of muslims is truly evil,it is in the same league as the hatred nazis had for jews.
Mpac can you keep this comment of mine and post everytime paulm spews his venom against muslims.

There is evident confusion between the decline in the number of muslims in proportion to jews throughout the Middle East over the last thousand years and the decline / collapse of the muslim communities in the 18th - 21st centuries. There can be no doubt that very large numbers of people throughout the ME are descendants are nomadic arabs who converted to Islam. This can be evidenced in part by the clan / tribal groups that report discrimination against them as descendants nomadic arans. There is also evidence to show that muslim communities were subject to various depredations ranging from outbreaks of violence to enslavement & shipment to the Americas and elsewhere. British diplomats provide very clear evidence of the status of Muslims in ME prior to the advent of European colonialism. European, especially French, colonialism provided muslims for the first time with legal equality and thus Muslims became associated with colonial domination. Thus with decolonialisation Muslims became targetted. This coincided with the creation of Israel and Israels Leagues pronouncement that violence should be directed against Muslims in ME. In Israel palestinians were asset stripped, made stateless and then driven out. It is little wonder that palestinian are amongst the most vociferously anti-Israel and tend to vote for hardliner in palestine.
This of course conflicts with the history that israel tend to hear and expound, they prefer the fiction of the zionism era in this matter. The denial of ME palestinian experiences under zionism not only polarises the communities but it effectively diminishes Muslim capacity to progress in the real world.

Why don't you guys decide whether the Jews have almost disappeared from Arab countries because (i) Israel bribed them to leave or (ii) they converted to Islam? In fact, why not (iii) they were whisked away by little green men?

Alternatively, why not talk to a few Jews in Israel or France about why they left. It might hurt, I suppose, to think that Islamic societies and states could ever have been bullying and persecuting rather than always flawless victims. I guess I have hit a raw nerve.

Paulm like a good trained propagandist asks alot of question but does not like answering any himself.
First of all answer the points in my response to your spewing of hatred against muslims.

Kam2 - imititation is the sincerest form of flattery, so thank you. However simply replacing Muslim for Jew in the text creates an absurdity which is risible.

Don't flatter yourself RSD - We can't have you trying to rewrite history can we. I merely, put you right.

Whilst we are talking about imitation why try to act as though israel is the oppressed when we all know who the oppressed and oppressers are so please don't try to replace the oppression, barabarism and genoicde that is faced by the palestinains with your own imagined one for propoaganda purposes.

You may be highly successful at fooling and brainwashing some people but you can't just rewrite history whenever you like.

Shan - how does pointing out that the death rate on both sides in Palestine / Israel is relatively small constitute 'spewing out hatred against the Muslims'.

Elsewhere on this site I have mentioned how much I respect the Muslims I come across in this country and how unrepresentative of them MPAC fortunately is.

Let's start one thing at a time. You say the French killed 3m Muslims in Algeria. Please give me your source - it is a multiple on the number of total deaths during the French Algerian war which any half respectable historian would accept.

Alternatively, assuming you don't have access to scholarly works or your local library, why not just do a Google search and then go away?

Paulm I am still waiting for you to answer to my response and not with another question like you are trained to do so.
you said 90% of muslim killed in the last 60 years were by other muslims.
as for which historian to beleive that is upto you,some historians say the holocaust never happened,others say 600,000 died, others say 6 million.
so when it comes to history it depands who is writing it.
But i still eagerly await your answer to my response,although i am not holding my breath.

The debate is good here! Worth remembering that amid all the talk of western support for Israel, NATO went to war against a christian regime (Slobodan Milosevic's Serbian government) to protect Bosnian muslims from ethnic cleansing, so the powers that be are not entirely biased!

Also, check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raleb_Majadele

For all its shortcomings, Israel is a least a parliamentary democracy, not a dictatorship. Raleb Majadele is a muslim who has made it into the Israeli cabinet. Can you imagine a jew holding office in many other Middle Eastern governments?

jimbob just to let you know,europe gave the serbs 3 years to do the job.
they put a weapons embargo on the bosnians knowing full well that the serbs were being armed by serbia.
It was only when the bosnians started to gain the upper hand that america stepped in to make sure the bosnians did not liberate their lands and become a strong and viable state.
If countries in the middle east had 20-25% jewish population then i am sure they too would have jews in cabinet.

Kam2 – in answer to your post. There certainly hasn’t been any decline in the numbers of Muslims in relation to the numbers of Jews. The population explosion throughout the ME has seen to that. The same has been the primary cause of social disruption. The majority of Muslims are not descended from Arab nomads any more than Jews or Christians in the ME. Most converts to Islam were settled farmers and urban dwellers at the time of the Arab Conquest.
Although there may have been some African slaves shipped to the Americas that were Muslims, they were an insignificant minority. The trans-African slave trade blossomed after the Arab Conquest and for centuries it was dominated by Muslims. The European slave trade interfaced with this existing slave trade and purchased slaves from the coasts of West Africa. When the British began to suppress the slave trade in the early 19th C, it had a far reaching impact on slave trading centres such a Timbuktu from which they never recovered. It is also often forgotten that the Barbary Corsairs were Muslim Arab pirates who raided along the coasts of Christendom and attacked Christian merchant ships to take slaves.
To imagine that prior to European colonialism that Muslims under Muslim rule were discriminated against is laughable. You clearly do not understand the conditions of Dar El Dhimmi.
While I would agree that Palestinians did lose assets in the 1948-49 war and were subject to a range measures to drive them out. It cannot be said that Palestinians in Israel have been subject to the range of actions directed against Jews in ME states. It is interesting to note that while the members of the Arab League have stated that Israel must compensate the Palestinians for their losses, the same countries refuse to compensate their former Jewish nationals who were stripped of their homes and assets and expelled. The Arab League demands that the international community pays the cost of any such compensation.

Bosnia was too close for comfort. It was on the doorstep of Europe.they took an awfully long time to respond.Action was not swift and please dont forget that they imposed an arms embargo against them, in the middle of a f*****g war, while they were being butchered by other merciful Christians.
Also bear in mind that Bosnia was/is more secular then Muslim for example only 6% of Bosnians attend the mosque.(figure taken before the war, Islam has increased after the war)

But yeah credit where credit is due. Bosnia was helped and they can face God with a semi-clear concious on that one.


WOHOOO Israel has ONE Muslim member in the cabinet.ONE Whopeedoo!
I wont keel over in shock if I discover he's an Israeli puppet in Israels showcase glass box.

Shan - you may question this source but rather than just rubbish it, why not trace the numbers back to the original sources and see whether you come up with 90% or something higher or lower?

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/4990

Regarding deaths in Algeria - even the FLN never claimed half the numbers of casualties you claim. And of course many of those casualties where caused by the FLN killing local Muslims.