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If you believe voting is Haraam… GET OUT!!! Print E-mail
Tuesday, 06 May 2008
kick.jpgThis message is to the brigade of hypocrites within Hizb-Ut-Tahrir (HT), it's offshoots and and other similar groups who advocate and promote apathy amongst British Muslims. Over the past few weeks, these ill-informed individuals have paraded up and down the high streets of London promising Muslims a one way ticket to Hell if they vote. What they actually need is a one way ticket for themselves…out of Britain!
 
Their argument is that it is Haraam for Muslims to take part in an electoral system that Implements ‘man-made’ laws instead of Islamic Law. What they conveniently forget is that they are living as a minority, less than 3% of the total population, in a non-Muslim state. The reality is that they live their lives on a daily basis where they are affected by the ‘man-mad’ laws of a non-Muslim state, is it therefore not sensible or indeed logical to take part in the system that makes those laws to ensure that their own rights & freedoms are protected?

If you’re a rationale human being with the ability to think then of course it is! However we’re not dealing with level headed individuals in this particular case.

They argue that it is ‘Shirk’ (the Greatest sin in Islam) to take part in a Kuffar system i.e. a system run by disbelievers. Their solution can be summed up with one word which they will include in every sentence and repeat over & over again like the trained parrots that they are – “Polly-want-a-Khilafah, Polly-want-a-Khilafah!”

And how does Polly propose getting to a Khilafah?

“Polly don’t care! Polly-want-a-Khilafah! Polly-want-a-Khilafah!”

Anyone who sympathises with the rationale provided by HT & Chums should consider the following.

If it’s a grave sin to take part in a “Kuffar” system then they should ask themselves the following questions;

    * Why live in a land and consume goods & services produced by a “Kuffar” system?

    * Why work and pay Tax & National Insurance to the “Kuffar” state?

    * Why use Public Transport provided for by the “Kuffar” state?

   * Why take full advantage of free education for themselves and their children provided by the “Kuffar” state?

    * And if they don’t work, why freeload off benefits provided by the “Kuffar” state?

These are just some of the many questions that can be put to the Khilafah posse. Surely if they adhere to the principles that they so vociferously preach then they will abstain from compromising their belief system? Yeah right!

To remain true to one's principles one needs the strength of conviction, which is lacking amongst the likes of HT & Chums. For all their self-righteous preaching they remain hypocrites who knowingly and unashamedly take full advantage of the privileges of living in Britain yet want every Muslim to simply stand back and let the system be used against them.

The rebuttal that you’re likely to receive from HT is that necessity drives them to get an education, take public transport and freeload of state benefits.

If that’s the case then is it not a necessity to ensure that your fellow Muslims are not demonised by Racist politicians? Subsequently, is it not a necessity to ensure you do everything you legally can to keep such people from getting into power?

Boris Johnson has just been confirmed as the next Mayor of London. This is a man who referred to the Quran as "a book of religious hatred”, who said that “Islam was the problem” following the July 7th atrocity.

Rather than try and stop this Islamophobe from becoming Mayor of London, the Khilafah posse actively went out of the way to make sure that Boris could have a smooth ride into City Hall. They did this by neutralising the very electorate that had the power to keep him out, had they been mobilised. Mosque leaders share some blame for not doing their part to activate their congregations but HT and others like it are also to blame for the travesty that has occurred.

For all their talk of not helping the “Kuffar” one hopes that the irony of helping a Zionist Islamophobe win his campaign is not lost on the leadership of HT and others like it.

Today their actions have contributed to the election of Boris Johnson, tomorrow it could well be an overtly fascist right-wing party.

Muslims in Britain need to recognise that groups like HT are the problem and are contributing to the rise of Islamophobia. As British Muslims we need to fully participate in the democratic process and make sure our voices are heard, only then will we be able to successfully make Politicians take us seriously and listen to what we have to say.

As for HT, the message to them is simple

….don’t want to take part in a “Kuffar” system?

LEAVE!!!
 
 



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Readers have left 21 comments.
abumaryam: Quote

As Salamu Alaykum

Since you aspire to the idea of democracy, what about the democratic rights of people not to vote yet you attack them for it and tell them to get out of the country which is a very intolerent attitudes in an apparently tolerent orgnisation likes yous lol.

As for HT, i do not believe they were out telling epople not to vote, however i did see al-muhajirun, I believe you might want to get your facts straight before making accusations and beng intolerent.
(1) 2008-05-06 07:44:29
kermit: Quote

the two issues that HT need to be held acccontable for are:

1. by disengaginf how do they hep zionists? and what do they propose to d to stop zionism politicians.

2. the hypocrasy is staying in britian which has man made laws, (while rejecting man made laws)...how do they square that circle.

these questions need to be answered.
(2) 2008-05-06 08:18:02
liger05: Quote

And what of the non muslims that dont vote. Should these people leave as well. Stop being so dramatic and accept that the majority of people lost faith in the political system a long time ago and unless there are changes it will be like this for the foreseeable future. Boris won because Ken Livingstone and his party managed to upset enough people with the stupid policies. The BNP got all those votes not because the lack of muslim vote but cos still in 2008 there are enough people out there who claim they aint racist cos they work with a Black guy named winston but in reality they are.
(3) 2008-05-06 08:20:25
Miah: Quote

It's my right, like the other 55% people of Londoners who didn't vote, not to vote. Who the hell do you think you are to ask me to leave? I see you've learnt a few things from your BNP chums, leave the country is a slogan of the BNP isn't it? Are you going to ask the other 55% who didn't vote to leave as well?

(4) 2008-05-06 08:52:39
Raja: Quote

Looks like the Zionists and the HT brigade are out of the mental assylum today.

Those who dont vote, aid the Zionists, and what a surprise the Zionists are out telling muslims its no big deal if you dont vote.

Two sides of the same coin!
(5) 2008-05-06 09:03:45
Shamsur: Quote

Why are Mpac UK and others blaming HT and other groups so to speak.

Many of us are not members of HT or any other group for that matter, but chose not to vote.

We as Muslims are free to travel this world as Allah has created it for us. So please don't dictate to us where we can and cannot live.

We may pay Taxes, work and receive free education, but we do NOT have to vote. Haraam or Halal, the choice is ours.

MPAC UK think that by only voting for Labour the Muslims will advance in this society.

Tell me this, if you think Ken would be better for Muslims? where was he when police officers raided a house in Forest Gate injuring a Mulsim male and waking up family members in a style akin to the Gestapo of Nazi Germany.

The truth is that it does not make a difference who is in power, there all the same
(6) 2008-05-06 10:07:52
Akbar: Quote

This may come as a surprise, but I (and many others) empaphise with both views. There are sufficient grounds to vote and there are equally sufficient grounds not to vote. Most of the non-voters are not happy with the political party system. If there was a box on ballot form saying "None of Above" - you'll see how much people are dissatisfied with the current party system. I find MPAC's obsession with voting and also voting in particular for Ken Liv OTT. I found the points in your article a tad patronising:

* Why live in a land and consume goods & services produced by a “Kuffar” system?
We live in a global market place. This place imports in goods as well as exporting. What if the goods are made by Muslims in China or India?
* Why work and pay Tax & National Insurance to the “Kuffar” state?
Not all of us can afford to pay for accountants to write off tax/ni, believe me, if we could we would.

* Why use Public Transport provided for by the “Kuffar” state?
Public transport by and large is run by Private Companies - not the "Kuffar State"

* Why take full advantage of free education for themselves and their children provided by the “Kuffar” state?
I pay taxes, my father used to, so do many of my relatives, why shouldn't we get free education.
* And if they don’t work, why freeload off benefits provided by the “Kuffar” state?
Same answer as above.

Look my view might be a little too refreshing for you - which is: there are compelling arguments to vote or not to vote, it depends on your individual consciences, whether or not you wish to vote. I am sure there are many a mufti/scholars who could agree with this. Simple, isn't it.
(7) 2008-05-06 11:15:11
liger05: Quote

So what if the Muslim turnout was higher but they voted for Boris? Would this of been ok or would MPAC criticise them for picking the wrong guy? Ken lost, get over it. I would like to know what the black vote figures were as I dont see such language from black groups saying 'dont vote then go back to africa'. Language such as "don’t want to take part in a “Kuffar” system? LEAVE" is not to different from a BNP member saying "dont want to attend our churches then leave"

If a Muslim doesnt want to vote then so be it. Why is that other people can accept that but MPAC cannot?
(8) 2008-05-06 11:22:03
joe: Quote

you still see the world as an us and them thing i see, and the zionists are taking over the world? last time i looked israel is still only half of 1% of the rest of Arab lands and within 110 years of Mohamed's death (PBUM)Isam took over the whole of the middle east right through N. Africa into Spain then you had 100 years of quiet until Hisam rewrote Ishaqs sirat rusul allah then blood bath ever since, now your on the move again due to all the billions of oil money Saudi has been indoctrinating, bribing, financing hard core mosques, trying to keep people stupid and violent to terrorize the west into more appeasement and acceptance of sharia. Any response from the west is called islamaphobia a disingenuous term designed to stop any rational inquiry into isalm, even though the murderers tell us why they do what they do with reference to the koran and ahadith. My advice is to stop brainwashing yourselves learn some history look up "the dead sea scrolls" and biblical archeology they will prove no corruption happened with the tora and the gospels and since your god Allah claimed her wrote them how can 2 totally opposite messages come from the same god? by the way the Arabic word for god is not Allah its illa, you say it in the Shadda and if you disagree you are contradiction the koran. go figure. ps i agree you should use your vote but i also think that a lot of muslims voted for boris for the same reasons Suadi Arabia trusted the Americans to stop Iraq not bin lardin they don't trust "good muslims"
(9) 2008-05-06 11:32:07
kermit: Quote

This may come as a surprise, but I (and many others) empaphise with both views. There are sufficient grounds to vote and there are equally sufficient grounds not to vote. Most of the non-voters are not happy with the political party system. If there was a box on ballot form saying "None of Above" - you'll see how much people are dissatisfied with the current party system. I find MPAC's obsession with voting and also voting in particular for Ken Liv OTT. I found the points in your article a tad patronising:

* Why live in a land and consume goods & services produced by a “Kuffar” system?
We live in a global market place. This place imports in goods as well as exporting. What if the goods are made by Muslims in China or India?
* Why work and pay Tax & National Insurance to the “Kuffar” state?
Not all of us can afford to pay for accountants to write off tax/ni, believe me, if we could we would.

* Why use Public Transport provided for by the “Kuffar” state?
Public transport by and large is run by Private Companies - not the "Kuffar State"

* Why take full advantage of free education for themselves and their children provided by the “Kuffar” state?
I pay taxes, my father used to, so do many of my relatives, why shouldn't we get free education.
* And if they don’t work, why freeload off benefits provided by the “Kuffar” state?
Same answer as above.

Look my view might be a little too refreshing for you - which is: there are compelling arguments to vote or not to vote, it depends on your individual consciences, whether or not you wish to vote. I am sure there are many a mufti/scholars who could agree with this. Simple, isn't it.
— Akbar


this is just a confusion tactic. HT have made sure that over a generation of Muslims do not vote, and that means do not oppose, or join the political process and therby handing it over to to Zionists.

And all this post does is try to confuse the issue. There is no confusion it is an imperative that Muslims engage into all streams of British society and that includes voting.
(10) 2008-05-06 14:30:26
whypatcondellisntfunny: Quote

Joe, do you watch much Pat Condell then?

"Any response from the west is called islamaphobia a disingenuous term designed to stop any rational inquiry into isalm..." Almost word for word part of a Pat Condell rant!

Saying Islamophobia is 'disingenuous' only works if there is no evidence to support that Islamophobia exists. Unfortunately, Islamophobia does exist, and there is a wealth of evidence to prove it.

Additionally, saying 'Islamophobia' is a rational reaction to Islam also only works if you apply generalities to all Muslims, for instance, "they are all working to bring about sharia law and the beheading of non-believers", or, "they all have bombs hidden up their shirts", etc, etc, when, clearly, even on the simple issue of voting, never mind sharia law and Israel, there is a massive gulf between many Muslims, as is evidenced by the debate raging above.
(11) 2008-05-06 14:59:53
whypatcondellisntfunny: Quote


* Why live in a land and consume goods & services produced by a “Kuffar” system?
We live in a global market place. This place imports in goods as well as exporting. What if the goods are made by Muslims in China or India?
— Akbar
Huh? For this statement to even make sense, you must be telling me that you check every product/service that you purchase to ensure it is made by Muslims! I just don't see that happening, do you?


* Why work and pay Tax & National Insurance to the “Kuffar” state?
Not all of us can afford to pay for accountants to write off tax/ni, believe me, if we could we would.
— Akbar
What are you talking about? Can an accountant write off all the VAT you pay when you purchase products and services? Can an accountant write of the petrol duty you pay when you fill up the car? Sure, an accountant can minimise the tax you pay, but he cannot help you avoid it! Also, I take it that if you are saving a pension that you will not claim back the additional money that the government gives you which it takes from the tax people (majority non-Muslims!) pay?


* Why use Public Transport provided for by the “Kuffar” state?
Public transport by and large is run by Private Companies - not the "Kuffar State"
— Akbar
I see. Who runs the railways? Network Rail. Network Rail has 'member' who guide the direction of the company. One of those 'members' is the Department of Transport. Something tells me that the Department of Transport has a lot of say in how the rail system is run. Also. Who builds and maintains the roads? Who organises the picking up of dustbins from outside your house? Have you ever paid Council Tax? Need I go on demonstrating how nonsensical your argument is?


* Why take full advantage of free education for themselves and their children provided by the “Kuffar” state?
I pay taxes, my father used to, so do many of my relatives, why shouldn't we get free education.
— Akbar
That is the point. You pay taxes, you contribute to the system, whether or not you agree with that system. To not vote is to deny the only meaningful chance you have of effecting change without standing to be an MP or councillor yourself!

You might well be dissatisfied with party politics, but by voting for the people who we think best represent us we at least send meaningful signals to each party about what we think of thier priorities. It seems BNP members understand this simple concept, why can't you?


* And if they don’t work, why freeload off benefits provided by the “Kuffar” state?
Same answer as above.
— Akber
The original argument was that if you disagree with a "Kuffar" state, then you should remove yourself from it. To say that "my dad paid taxes so I'm entitled to freeload" is the kind of attitude that plays right into the hands of anybody with an axe to grind against Islam.


Look my view might be a little too refreshing for you - which is: there are compelling arguments to vote or not to vote, it depends on your individual consciences, whether or not you wish to vote. I am sure there are many a mufti/scholars who could agree with this. Simple, isn't it.
— Akbar
"Refreshing" is not a word I would use to describe your views. Lazy, ignorant, naieve, are all much better descriptions.
(12) 2008-05-06 15:28:27
Time to open our eyes: Quote

This article is really really shocking and indicative of how the bnp have spread their hate so much that we are even willing to say what the bnp have been saying to immigrants for years even though they have lived here for decades. Have we really learnt nothing other than to mimic and model ourselves on the bnp.

Why should anyone leave just because they disagree with what someone may think or believe. Where whould the ones that were born here go?

We should stop turning our anger against ourselves and fellow muslims and as much as the actions of some may be hurtful in terms of the outcome, they must be proven wrong at source..... i.e islamically and according to islam and that can only happen through meetings and debate.

Otherwise what will happen is that protaganist and aggitators will take over and we will end up fighting amongst ourselves much to delight of those that are anti-muslim.
(13) 2008-05-06 15:33:56
Akbar: Quote

Kermit: I am not in HT or any of their affiliates. I despise HT for the rancour they have caused amongst Muslims. I am of independent mind and am disenfranchised from the political process as it is today. I speak for a significant number of people. Many people were uncomfortable with voting in Labour who had led this nation into war and other policies they are not happy with. I empathise with other logical posters above. Should the non-muslim voters be thrown out of the UK too. I am proud to be Muslim and British and exercise my right to Vote for "None of the Above". I think it is time for MPAC to draw a line under this campaign and to move on. "Khalass" as they say in Arabic.
(14) 2008-05-06 15:59:17
Don: Quote

You may be too refreshing akbar as whypatcondellisntfunny has gone haywire.

When jokers like these start to try to pull apart what you are saying and then end up trying to insult you as well then you are on the right track.... go akbar go...... carying on telling it as it is.....
(15) 2008-05-06 20:08:10
Taz: Quote

HT are the Muslim equivalent of the BNP. Non-violent separatists. They believe they are superior to non-Muslims.

They are a danger to non-Muslims and in the interests of community cohesion they should be banned.

If they want to wait for the Khalifa let them do it in a country that wants them.
(16) 2008-05-06 21:47:00
whypatcondellisntfunny: Quote

You may be too refreshing akbar as whypatcondellisntfunny has gone haywire.

When jokers like these start to try to pull apart what you are saying and then end up trying to insult you as well then you are on the right track.... go akbar go...... carying on telling it as it is.....
— Don


Don, I have a right to express my opinion, as does Akbar. Whilst I respect his belief that he does not have to vote, I do not respect the logic of the underlying reasoning he gives for not voting.

Funnily, you have the time to write a 4 line missive, but not the wherewithal to refute any of the arguments I present against the logic Akbar uses.

If you think I'm wrong, present your case.
(17) 2008-05-07 08:23:39
Don: Quote

whypatcondellisntfunny you talk about logic and then are totally illogical yourself. I have read over and over again what I have written and I have never said that you do not have the right to say what you will. Why do I then need to look any further at what you say and to consider what you say convincing, beleivable and an accurate response to the original post.

Isn't it that you could also have misread what Akbar originally wrote?


(18) 2008-05-07 15:40:34
Ali Muhit: Quote

What really disgruntles Hizb Ut Tahrir members is simply that they have no power or influence in Britain, and therefore feel the only way to win power or even do something that will not involve them engaging much with non-Muslims is simply to say Islamic law and bringing Sharia.........

They say they want sharia in the Muslim world, but then they say they won't vote in Britain, so do they want sharia law in Britain or not? If they do, get out and go and live in Iran.... I am sure the anti-semite leaders would love to accept them....

We love Ed Hussein - ex HT member and Majid Nawaz- Ex- HT extremist - now both supporters of our democracy!




(19) 2008-05-07 17:23:01
whypatcondellisntfunny: Quote

whypatcondellisntfunny you talk about logic and then are totally illogical yourself. I have read over and over again what I have written and I have never said that you do not have the right to say what you will. Why do I then need to look any further at what you say and to consider what you say convincing, beleivable and an accurate response to the original post.

Isn't it that you could also have misread what Akbar originally wrote?
— Don


Don, I was merely expressing the fact that whilst Akbar can say what he likes, so can I. In your original post you call me a "joker", and yet you have not refuted any of the clearly logical points I made in response to Akbar.

I quoted Akbar fairly and in context. I do not think I misread him at all, additionally, I made a point of quoting the individual points that he made word for word before disputing his logic.

If you disagree with what I say, you must bring suitable arguments refuting my points to the table. For the second time of asking, if you think I'm wrong, present a case that refutes my points. If you cannot do that, at least have the decency to stop avoiding the issues I raised by raising other, entirely separate issues.
(20) 2008-05-07 18:18:33
Aziz Bukhari: Quote

Really disappointed in that article; was an arrogant, rude and offensive piece. I'm new to MPAC and used to respect it, but certainly not now.

You should show more adaab when discussing, this is not an appropriate style in discussion.

This voting issue is hardly new, the ulemaa of india were split down the middle when the British ruled India. Both sides forwarded identical arguments as people do today however what they didn't do is descend to the gutter and start accusing the other side of being munafiqeen and start using racist rhetoric like "get out of here".

Learn some respect and don't be so myopic.
(21) 2008-05-10 15:42:31
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