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| Clash of Brothers: Two sides, one religion |
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| Saturday, 26 April 2008 | |
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I was harassed and shadowed for the next ten minutes, every time I gave a leaflet to a Muslim coming out of the mosque, he would say to them that this is ‘shirk al kubra’ (highest form of shirk). He kept pandering on and on about the evil I was committing; I tried to respond by saying that most Islamic scholars say it is legitimate to vote and his answer was ‘I do not care about them’. We continued to argue – whilst I handed out leaflets and he kept discouraging people from voting. He got hold of the leaflets and tried to snatch them on three occasions, but I stood firm and pulled them away from his grasp. Only a few brothers ever came up to try and stop him, rather gingerly, from forcefully wrenching the leaflets from me. He kept coming up with hadiths like ‘if you see something bad then stop it with your hand, if you can’t; then stop it with your tongue; if you can’t do that then hate it with your heart and that is the least of faith’. He succeeded in doing all three, but the only problem was that there was nothing bad to stop. He managed to take the leaflets from me and dump them all down the drain. Poor chap, you could see him seething with anger (he even apologised for doing it, but said that’s what he had to do). I never reacted or frowned and left the place. It reminds me of the example of the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and Umar ibn Al-Khattab. The Prophet was preaching the Oneness of God, and Umar, before becoming a Muslim, was following him and telling people not to believe what the Prophet was saying. Afterwards Umar repented and embraced Islam (people never believed he could) and even helped Islam expand under his governance as Caliph. I only wish that this brother, who said his name was AbdulRaheem, would one day change and participate in democracy and educate others to participate. Goodness he may one day become an MP, Insh'Allah.
But the purpose of all this is beyond recounting 'my day’s encounter with an ignorant youth'. This highlights the current pestilent state of the Muslims. Why aren’t the Muslim leaders educating us about the importance of democracy, the importance of politics, of engaging with the wider society? He may have an enduring love of Islam, but to act without correct knowledge is grave and could lead to a person’s downfall. Look at the dangers of misquoting the Qur'an and hadith. Narrow-minded people falsely justify certain actions by doing just that. What if there was a hadith that said kill those who invite people to shirk? The Muslims have never been so low in history and it is about to get even worse, unless we wake up. If you want to find out more please see the Voting in Islam section and www.mpacuk.org/voteken           Readers have left 28 comments.
K. Urban:
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I would like to offer my support to the writer in taking the time to hand out leaflets and in writing the article.
We need more like him/her to deal with the high levels of ignorance within our Community. The Harrow Central Mosque is not a beacon of intelligence and foresight as can also be seen in their ignorance in building a very prominent foreign-looking structure which can be seen for miles around. If matters worsen in this Country, the Harrow Central Mosque leaders may as well be saying 'Hi we're Muslim, here we are, come and shoot us'' We are now thus increasingly also seen as a threat to the architecture and way of life in this Country.
(1)
2008-04-26 07:28:57
anas:
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i had the same experience last week in Harrow while i was distributing MPACuk leaflet. now i can imagine i much we have to do within our community. it is difficult to educate them. as they are very good in talking but not in listning.
(2)
2008-04-26 07:47:57
M A Yusufzai:
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The author should have stopped the evil by force by phoning the police and handing this terrorist to the police. It is people with his mentality, the HT and Al-Muhajiroun types, who are brainwashing our youthes and bringing bad name to Islam and Muslims. I agree with MPAC that the real culprits are the "choudhries" of the mosques who have been employing naive Imams from the villages of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh who hardly understand the demands of the age in which we are living.
(3)
2008-04-26 07:53:36
abumaryam:
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As Salamu Alaykum
I would disagree with the brother shouting and pulling leaflets out of people's hand. Nor do I agree that voting is allowed for Muslims IN THIS COUNTRY, because it leads to making legislation. But I think the most disturbing aspect here is the ponit that Muslims believe that voting is going to enpower the Muslim community, this is a red herring. Muslims need to take their affairs into their own hand not hand them to somebody else. As a community we need to open up our mosques for open day visits, we need to do workshops, seminars, talks so forth to dispell the myths surrounding Islam.
(4)
2008-04-26 08:32:45
Mohammed:
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"The youth was convinced that he was doing the right thing, just as a suicide bomber thinks when he kills in the name of Islam"
Therefore, one could also argue that people who vote think they are doing the right thing just like the USA/UK in the bombing of innocent civilains in Iraq.
(6)
2008-04-26 11:06:45
farooq:
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These hardline extremist muhajirouns have been exposed as the hypocrites they are. They spend years harassing Muslims telling us voting is haram and when they feel the need to make money they leave their so called radicalism and run to the government and set up 'projects'like the quilliam foundaton.
The guy that was harassing mpacuk will not doubt see the error of his ways when it suits him and maybe write a book called the Islamist part two and make lots of money promoting neocon philosphy. If anyone wants to see the scrap heap these hypocrites end up go and see the quilliam 'project' all ex-Ht muhajiroun radicals who are now 1. MEMBERS OF LABOUR PARTY 2. LOVE THE NEOCONS 3. ACTUALLY SUPPORT THE INVASION AND SLAUGHTER OF IRAQI MUSLIMS 4. CONDEMN AND ATTACK ISLAM AND MUSLIMS AS BEING THE PROBLEM NOT FOREIGN POLICY 5. RIDICULE MUSLIMS AND MUSLIM ORGANISATIONS. and these were the same hypocrites that stood around harassing people like MPAC. There are dozens and dozens of scholars who state in this country Muslims should and must vote. Even the radical Babr Ahmed who used to tell people voting was haram until he got locked up then not only did he change his mind but stood up for elections. There is only one group who say voting is haram and that is HT, and they stood for elections in Jordon when it suited them and their leadership are now neo-cons in the Quiliam 'project' attacking muslims. There is only one person claims to be a scholar and says voting is haram.......That is Omar Bakri. The man who spent years attacking Britain and then begged them to let him on the boat when the Israelis attacking Lebanon, he himself has gone from being a shafi to a radical salafi renouncing everything he taught for 20 years, he has no proof of being a scholar ever¬! so Muslims need to stop being dociles monkeys and wake up! We need select not parties by candidates that best suit our needs and vote tactically, mpac is spot on!
(7)
2008-04-26 12:39:18
Puzzled:
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Why is it shirk? If you feel no shame do it. If the brother believes that what he is doing is right for him as a muslim how can it be considerd shirk. The brother is not saying that vote and all your problems can be solved is he????
Shirk is to associate partners with allah and therfore a belief that those other than allah can help the muslim community to solve their problems but how does allah help the muslim community? Is it not through the actions of his creation both believing and non believing???
(8)
2008-04-26 13:31:45
Shamsur:
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Absolutely discusting.....
I don't care about your encounter with another brother and what you thought you were representing. How dare you associate your experience with that of our beloved prophet SAW. Have you lost all balance of any Iman you have? How dare you compare your misfortune of convincing other Muslims to vote in an election where only non-beleivers stand and than say it reminded you of what our beloved prophet went through. You can keep on dreaming, keep dreaming, because you really do not have a clue???? I almost feel sorry for you
(9)
2008-04-26 13:40:13
Syed:
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How dare you associate your experience with that of our beloved prophet SAW. Have you lost all balance of any Iman you have? — ShamsurMaybe you can argue that this isn't a similar situation and the analogy is flawed. But that's not what you were saying. Your inability to understand a simple article makes me almost feel sorry for you.
(10)
2008-04-26 13:56:27
abumaryam:
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These hardline extremist muhajirouns have been exposed as the hypocrites they are. They spend years harassing Muslims telling us voting is haram and when they feel the need to make money they leave their so called radicalism and run to the government and set up 'projects'like the quilliam foundaton. — farooqThe guy that was harassing mpacuk will not doubt see the error of his ways when it suits him and maybe write a book called the Islamist part two and make lots of money promoting neocon philosphy. If anyone wants to see the scrap heap these hypocrites end up go and see the quilliam 'project' all ex-Ht muhajiroun radicals who are now 1. MEMBERS OF LABOUR PARTY 2. LOVE THE NEOCONS 3. ACTUALLY SUPPORT THE INVASION AND SLAUGHTER OF IRAQI MUSLIMS 4. CONDEMN AND ATTACK ISLAM AND MUSLIMS AS BEING THE PROBLEM NOT FOREIGN POLICY 5. RIDICULE MUSLIMS AND MUSLIM ORGANISATIONS. and these were the same hypocrites that stood around harassing people like MPAC. There are dozens and dozens of scholars who state in this country Muslims should and must vote. Even the radical Babr Ahmed who used to tell people voting was haram until he got locked up then not only did he change his mind but stood up for elections. There is only one group who say voting is haram and that is HT, and they stood for elections in Jordon when it suited them and their leadership are now neo-cons in the Quiliam 'project' attacking muslims. There is only one person claims to be a scholar and says voting is haram.......That is Omar Bakri. The man who spent years attacking Britain and then begged them to let him on the boat when the Israelis attacking Lebanon, he himself has gone from being a shafi to a radical salafi renouncing everything he taught for 20 years, he has no proof of being a scholar ever¬! so Muslims need to stop being dociles monkeys and wake up! We need select not parties by candidates that best suit our needs and vote tactically, mpac is spot on! As Salamu alaykum Actually HT do not say that voting is haraam, they say that parting in elections in this country is haraam because of the legislative process. Regarding the member of HT in Jordan, when he stood for elections in Jordan the consistution allowed it because it did not invlove any legislation, secondly the member that stood did not part take in any legislation, he just delievered a speech and then resigned from the post. It would be like a MP in this country who got elected for Parliament and went there and just delivered a speech and stood down but did not take part in the legislative process i.e. making laws or voting for laws. Secondly, just because a scholar says something is halal, does not make it halal because other scholars will say that the same thing is haram so hoe do we judge? You need to judge by looking at the evidences and making sure that they are understood in their context and all the other conditions. It is not abot how many scholars sign up to something but rather about the weight of the evidences, so for example in Turkey a scholar issued an fatwa saying that it was ok to pray 3 times a day does that mean know that it is?
(11)
2008-04-26 14:13:22
Shamsur:
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To Syed:
If the brother was giving dawah to a non Mulsim and was persecuted and beaten and tortured than the prophets sunnah may be similar in this case. He was in conflict with another muslim about a fact which is clearly devided amongst the scholars. If you at all think that his expereince is anything similar than my friend we all will start to feel sorry for you as well.
(12)
2008-04-26 15:26:20
Farooq:
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@ abu HT
It is clear that your are an apologist for HT, so lets talk about that shall we, you are the only cult in the Muslim community that tells people voting is haram. But lest examine your credibility what have you given to the muslim community. 1. The main founder of hizbutathrir in UK is mr. Omar Bakri he taught and educated his warped version of Islam to all the current leadership of the hizb. Your understanding of Islam is based on his teachings yet Mr. bakri has renounced everything he has taught you in aqeedah, fiqh and manhaj and from this leader (amir) of hizb ut tahrir and the hizb itself has grown the most disgusting khawirj groups ever to come into existence in the UK 2. What credibility do any of you people have?? You stand up lecturing the muslim community about Halal and haram oe week and the next week you are writting books called the Islamist, jumping in bed with neo cons, stating the war in Iraq was a good thing, and muslims are evil. 3.Dont tell us Ed Husain is a one off there are trucks loads of your rats jumpin off the ship to make money, members of the Hizb and even shura members, the question is this week you are condemning voting next week you will be with a begging bowl at 10 downing street. 4. Hizb as spread the most chaos, fitna, corruption and lies amongst the Muslim community then any other group, the people that are part of hizb are either attacking Muslims while they are part of the cult or leave and attack muslims as part of quilium project. MUSLIMS BE WARNED THESE PEOPLE HAVE ONLY ONE OBJECTIVE WHICH IS TO ATTACK ISLAM AND DISCREDIT MUSLIMS EITHER BY USING HIZB OR THE QUILIAM PROJECT EITHER WAY THEY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.
(13)
2008-04-26 15:40:04
shan:
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I think the brother in question was being over zealous as he probally has started following the deen recently.
What this brother needs to do is learn ikhlaq,by doing this he will realise that you cannot force your own personal views on others, you can inform them what you feel is correct but you cannot force them to accept your views. on a personal note nothing will change until the government decides to find new scapegoats to demonise and villify.
(14)
2008-04-26 15:47:04
Taz:
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It is obvious the "brother" had the shetaan in him. I feel for the writer. Keep up the good work.
(15)
2008-04-26 17:46:51
jay:
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very sad how some muslims behave, but dont let this stop you or anyone else, keep up the good work.
(16)
2008-04-26 20:01:54
Nafe:
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Its sometimes hilarious the way HT members put some of their arguments forward. Do they know that the Mayor and Assembly have no powers to construct 'laws' - that's the parliaments job. So even if we use their warped logic - voting in this election is absolutely halal (according to their logic).
Any normal human being will see that voting is not shirk (associating partners with God). That's the problem with these hot heads they can't distinguish between deep philosophical questions and the lay man material need to elect the best representative for us. Keep up the good work MPACUK.
(17)
2008-04-26 21:10:12
Omar:
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Absolutely discusting..... — ShamsurI don't care about your encounter with another brother and what you thought you were representing. How dare you associate your experience with that of our beloved prophet SAW. Have you lost all balance of any Iman you have? How dare you compare your misfortune of convincing other Muslims to vote in an election where only non-beleivers stand and than say it reminded you of what our beloved prophet went through. You can keep on dreaming, keep dreaming, because you really do not have a clue???? I almost feel sorry for you Go and do something good in this world and let the world be free of your mouth and sewer of a mind. this brother has done a great thing, has been opppressed by the ignorant jahils of the Ummah and all you can do is moan about some crazed point. Go back to school and learn to think!
(18)
2008-04-26 23:16:39
Liberator:
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@ abu HT — FarooqIt is clear that your are an apologist for HT, so lets talk about that shall we, you are the only cult in the Muslim community that tells people voting is haram. But lest examine your credibility what have you given to the muslim community. 1. The main founder of hizbutathrir in UK is mr. Omar Bakri he taught and educated his warped version of Islam to all the current leadership of the hizb. Your understanding of Islam is based on his teachings yet Mr. bakri has renounced everything he has taught you in aqeedah, fiqh and manhaj and from this leader (amir) of hizb ut tahrir and the hizb itself has grown the most disgusting khawirj groups ever to come into existence in the UK 2. What credibility do any of you people have?? You stand up lecturing the muslim community about Halal and haram oe week and the next week you are writting books called the Islamist, jumping in bed with neo cons, stating the war in Iraq was a good thing, and muslims are evil. 3.Dont tell us Ed Husain is a one off there are trucks loads of your rats jumpin off the ship to make money, members of the Hizb and even shura members, the question is this week you are condemning voting next week you will be with a begging bowl at 10 downing street. 4. Hizb as spread the most chaos, fitna, corruption and lies amongst the Muslim community then any other group, the people that are part of hizb are either attacking Muslims while they are part of the cult or leave and attack muslims as part of quilium project. MUSLIMS BE WARNED THESE PEOPLE HAVE ONLY ONE OBJECTIVE WHICH IS TO ATTACK ISLAM AND DISCREDIT MUSLIMS EITHER BY USING HIZB OR THE QUILIAM PROJECT EITHER WAY THEY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED. OBM never founded HT in the uk. You descredit you own points by making cheap remarks such as point 2. You judge HT by the actions ed hussain do you judge Islam by the actions of Ayyan Hirsh Ali? In regards to point 3, can u state the official HT position on the mayoral elections? And can you substantiate you claim about 'beging bowl'? on point 4, where is any evidence of any of what you have claimed? the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "A believer is neither a habitual curser nor a habitual accuser. He is not vile nor is he obscene." [Sunan al-Tirmidhî]
(19)
2008-04-27 01:47:01
Boss Woman:
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This is completely unacceptable in the UK.
These bearded shaitaans should be sectioned (indefinitely) under the Mental Health Act. If they keep shouting 'Sunnah, Sunnah' why do they hang around in the West? It's like you bang on about being a Spurs supporter and yet keep hanging around at Arsenal. It dosen't figure, thicko! Drive the beasts out. NOW!
(20)
2008-04-27 08:25:00
Puzzled:
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I am not sure that I agree with some comments on this post just as I do not agree with what the brothers say about voting but that does not mean that I should try to belittle or insult them or their standing as a muslim or their faith. None of us are the truest of truest muslims so why accuse others of what we are not.
Why try to shout others down by insulting them and calling them names or that they are a cult when who knows they may be right just as I may be convinced that I am right so they may also be convinced that they are right. The only way is to talk and discuss and not insult.
(21)
2008-04-27 09:02:36
abumaryam:
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@ abu HT — FarooqIt is clear that your are an apologist for HT, so lets talk about that shall we, you are the only cult in the Muslim community that tells people voting is haram. But lest examine your credibility what have you given to the muslim community. 1. The main founder of hizbutathrir in UK is mr. Omar Bakri he taught and educated his warped version of Islam to all the current leadership of the hizb. Your understanding of Islam is based on his teachings yet Mr. bakri has renounced everything he has taught you in aqeedah, fiqh and manhaj and from this leader (amir) of hizb ut tahrir and the hizb itself has grown the most disgusting khawirj groups ever to come into existence in the UK 2. What credibility do any of you people have?? You stand up lecturing the muslim community about Halal and haram oe week and the next week you are writting books called the Islamist, jumping in bed with neo cons, stating the war in Iraq was a good thing, and muslims are evil. 3.Dont tell us Ed Husain is a one off there are trucks loads of your rats jumpin off the ship to make money, members of the Hizb and even shura members, the question is this week you are condemning voting next week you will be with a begging bowl at 10 downing street. 4. Hizb as spread the most chaos, fitna, corruption and lies amongst the Muslim community then any other group, the people that are part of hizb are either attacking Muslims while they are part of the cult or leave and attack muslims as part of quilium project. MUSLIMS BE WARNED THESE PEOPLE HAVE ONLY ONE OBJECTIVE WHICH IS TO ATTACK ISLAM AND DISCREDIT MUSLIMS EITHER BY USING HIZB OR THE QUILIAM PROJECT EITHER WAY THEY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED. As Salamu Alaykum The hizb have nothing to do with the Quilliam foundation, yes some of the founders were apart of the Hizb but they are no more, this is quite clear for anybody to see since they are now attacking the hizb's ideas. So to say that the hizb and Quilliam are the same is wrong. There is only one founder of Hizb ut Tahrir, Imam Taqiuddin An Nabhani and the literature of HT is the same throughtout all countries, Omar Bakri has nothing to do with this. Secondly Omar Bakri has not written any literature for the Hizb, the literature has been written by Imam An Nabhani and this is easy for all to see for those who have come across the Hizb's literature. HT do not attack Muslims anywhere in the world, they pray that they are able bring them to a good understanding of Islam and for them to fulfill their obligation to live under an Islamic State. You talk about attacking Muslims, was it not Mpac who ganged up with channel 4 to show how mosques to do allow women to pray in them and over generalised this by showing 1 or 2 mosques only, who is it that is attacking the house of Allah? Was it not sisters from Mpac who were shouting outside mosques and causing fitnah for the non Muslims to see? So who is it that is being divisive? You accuse other of causing choas and having no manners, were where the manners of these sisters? As for voting, like I mentioned before, voting is fine in the Khilafah state but not in this country because of making legislation. Liegislation is for none but Allah (swt),not for the Muslims or anybody else for that matter.
(22)
2008-04-27 09:09:16
Ali:
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These hardline extremist muhajirouns have been exposed as the hypocrites they are. They spend years harassing Muslims telling us voting is haram and when they feel the need to make money they leave their so called radicalism and run to the government and set up 'projects'like the quilliam foundaton. — farooqThe guy that was harassing mpacuk will not doubt see the error of his ways when it suits him and maybe write a book called the Islamist part two and make lots of money promoting neocon philosphy. If anyone wants to see the scrap heap these hypocrites end up go and see the quilliam 'project' all ex-Ht muhajiroun radicals who are now 1. MEMBERS OF LABOUR PARTY 2. LOVE THE NEOCONS 3. ACTUALLY SUPPORT THE INVASION AND SLAUGHTER OF IRAQI MUSLIMS 4. CONDEMN AND ATTACK ISLAM AND MUSLIMS AS BEING THE PROBLEM NOT FOREIGN POLICY 5. RIDICULE MUSLIMS AND MUSLIM ORGANISATIONS. and these were the same hypocrites that stood around harassing people like MPAC. There are dozens and dozens of scholars who state in this country Muslims should and must vote. Even the radical Babr Ahmed who used to tell people voting was haram until he got locked up then not only did he change his mind but stood up for elections. There is only one group who say voting is haram and that is HT, and they stood for elections in Jordon when it suited them and their leadership are now neo-cons in the Quiliam 'project' attacking muslims. There is only one person claims to be a scholar and says voting is haram.......That is Omar Bakri. The man who spent years attacking Britain and then begged them to let him on the boat when the Israelis attacking Lebanon, he himself has gone from being a shafi to a radical salafi renouncing everything he taught for 20 years, he has no proof of being a scholar ever¬! so Muslims need to stop being dociles monkeys and wake up! We need select not parties by candidates that best suit our needs and vote tactically, mpac is spot on! Great points, thats the problem with HT, they are the group who influence these people to act like this. Yes the group is not HT but it is an off shoot of HT and believe in many of the same things. This group no doubt has been influenced and infiltrated by Mi5 or some other agency and is beind diverted to stop Muslims getting political. They have now chosen violence as a means to achieve this. We must not let these people win. The brother who was attacked deserves our praises and all of us must unite to condemn the new Khwaraj of Al Mahajaroun.
(23)
2008-04-27 09:43:21
Puzzled:
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To abumarayam - the question then to ask is what did the holy prophet do when he found himself in a minority. Did he for example instruct the muslims who became migrants not to paticipate or defy laws in their country of emigration???
(24)
2008-04-27 10:11:23
Sarah Forbes:
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HT do not attack any Muslims MPAC does - well that clearly is not true, you attack Muslim rulers all the time, anyone who knows anything of the Hizb will know thats all they do, apart from teling people not to vote! (zionists must love you!)
So when MPAC does the same at a local level you get upset! - dont be so disingenuous! HT have no solution for the Ummah apart from telling people not to get involved in the political process - which is hardly a solution at all.
(25)
2008-04-27 10:54:50
Abdikhaliq:
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i dont know if it is right or rong
but allah stated in the qurann that more people are be ing muslims but more people have no islam in thre heart
(26)
2008-04-27 15:24:47
muslim:
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AsWrWb
Yaa-ayyuhal-muslimoon The Messenger Muhammad (saw) said 'Islam started as something strange & will return back as something strange, paradise is for the strangers'. (sahih) The Prophet said, "The knots of Islam will be undone one by one until every one of them is undone, and the first one to be undone is the ruling by the Book of Allah (swt) and the last one is the prayer."(musnad-Imam Ahmed) Allah says, "And hold fast, all of you together, to the rope of Allah and be not divided." Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, 'My Ummah will get divided into 73 sects and each one will go to Hell save one and that one is the Jama'at.' Also in one Hadith he said, 'They are those people who will follow this path which I and my Sahaba follow today.' Our sources today have clearly been diluted with the likes of these 'deviant sects' who quote everything but the Quraan & Sunnah 'sahih'. Allah hu musta'an I advise all the muslims to learn & understand TAWHEED 'oneness of Allah' only then will you appreciate Allahs attributes, 1 of them being AL HAAKIM 'THE LEGISLATOR'
(27)
2008-04-29 23:56:46
Akbar:
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Woa. Let's get some perspective here. If any of you read the article, there is no mention of the overzealous brother being a HT member. He is probably a born again Muslim and is practicing Islam with a new Zeal. HT may have a lot to answer for generally, but not in this particular instance.
(28)
2008-04-30 09:38:58
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I was handing out leaflets outside the gates of Harrow Central Mosque after Friday prayers. From the moment I started, a youth (heavily bearded and wearing a long robe) asked what I was doing; I told him I was handing out leaflets to inform people about the London Mayoral elections in the coming week. He told me it was ‘shirk’ (associating partners to God) and that I was leaving the fold of Islam.
