Given the political demographics of London it is a Labour safe seat. The Tories know this, which is why they putting up a dummy candidate. For you the penny obviously hasn't already dropped. Putting up BJ is basically throwing in the towel.

Man! Those brothers from MPACUK managed to stay calm when they got harassed and pushed around by the stewards on the march - who seemed to be calling the police on them for simply handing out leaflets?!

I'd always heard it was MPACUK that was agressive, but that was disgraceful the way those stewards were pushing the brothers around just for offering people leaflets! Personally I'd be happy someone was doing something to warn us about a threat to our community!

Don't they care that we might get a Mayor who thinks Islam is the problem and the Qur'an is a book of hate? Mayor of London is a powerful position - this is a serious threat!

... And the hypocrisy of inviting George Galloway to give a speech and then claiming it is a non-political event! Breathtaking!

I love MPAC you guys know your gonna get into a dust up and still go and guess what...you get into a dust up.

excellent viewing, and very valid points. Allah open the eyes of these brothers, the intolerable peace loving bigots.

Brevie Cowards, they are just as bad as the Tablighi's - wearing green turbans claiming the love the Prophet PBUH and all the while betraying his Ummah. Words can't describe my anger.

Nice try - I know the Zionists on this site hate that MPACUK are waking Muslims up politically, and want to fool them into going back to sleep again.

Opinion polls show Boris Johnson is currently leading a close race against Ken Livingstone for Mayor of London - EVERY VOTE COUNTS! Don't be fooled - they want you to treat Johnson as a joke rather than the serious threat that he is.

MPAC is so contemptuous of other Muslim groups, whether HT, Sufis, Mosque Management Committees or Brevies.

And when the discord turns to violence, you can always blame the Zionists because you accuse the other party of being a Zionist (note the comments on another discussion board that HT are Zionist funded - no doubt they say the same of MPAC).

How about a bit of common decency for your fellow Muslims (from which might follow a bit of decency for your fellow men and women) and a civilised discussion, rather than just throwing the 'Zionist' label around.

Remember in the Iran / Iraq war each side accused the other of being 'Zionist'. And that cost a million Muslim lives.

These people are ignorant of politics so they need to be educated about the situation of muslims in this country. Also, MPAC making a mockery of there green turbans is really going to make the ummah more politically enlightened. Some good points to this thread, however it doesnt hurt to be polite.

MPAC - you never fail to offend. the Prophet saw would have been proud of you,well done.

that guy in the whooly look very passive - OMG is that ZULFI....???

Come on MPACUK smarten up! PLEASE this is suppose to be a political awareness demo or summin, not the i am a refugee smurf society

I can't believe what I am watching. Isn't celebrating the Prophet's birthday {PBUH} biddah ? Marching on the street - for what exactly - remembrace of the Prophet {PBUH} ? Theese Muslims need a HUGE wake up call !

Well done MPACUK - may your patience and work be rewarded insha Allah !

"The messenger of Allah (Allah's grace and peace be upon him) said, 'Do not praise, laude, approbate, or eulogize me the way that the Christians did to Jesus, the son of Mary. I am only the slave of Allah', thus say, 'The slave of Allah and His messenger.'" (Authentic: Bukhari, Ahmad, Darimi, and others.)

It is authentically reported that the Prophet (pbuh) from numerous authentic paths of narration said: “I have not left anything that will bring you closer to Allah and distance you from the Hellfire, except that I have commanded you with it. And I have not left anything that will bring you closer to the Hellfire and distance you from Allah except that I have forbade you from it.” (Sahih Bukhari)

It is high time these Barelvis were bought to account. The celebration and marking of un-Islamic and non-authorised events is their forte, even though our Beloved explicitly stated that the Muslims have only two Eids compounded by the fact that there is not a single occasion when the Prophet or the companions ever marched through the streets of Makkah, Median, Damascus, Baghdad etc to mark the Prophets birthday, which has never even been conclusively established as the 12th of Rabiul Awwal. However we have hundreds of examples of the Prophet (pbuh) struggling against tyranny and injustice, mention this to the green turban brigade and they are sure to throw a foaming wobbly. These are not the lovers of the Prophet (pbuh) they are the lovers of superstition, mysticism, saint worship and the people of desire and innovation in worship, the one thing that Prophet(pbuh) clearly prohibited. And Allah(swt)knows best.

Keep up the good work brothers and sisters, adhere to the Sunnah whilst embracing the political realaity and heritage of Islam. Vote Ken on May 1st!!!

How are you doing ‘Paul M’? Allow me to rip your arguments to shreds



MPAC have contempt for those who do not engage in politics and stand up against oppression here or anywhere else in the world. MPAC is doing a great job in trying to reform Mosques, and they have had successes.



MPAC does not accuse HT of being Zionist or Zionist funded. HT’s non-participation in voting indirectly helps certain politicians with an agenda that isn’t friendly to British Muslims.



Who threw the Zionist label? When was the word ‘Zionist’ ever mentioned in the video? Why don’t you address the issue here, or are you too obsessed with bringing up the ‘Zionist label’ issue. The video was about handing out leaflets and the ignorant responses. It also highlighted the hypocrisy of those people shown to reject anything political, but yet invite a politician to have a speech.



What absolute rubbish. Are you saying that because each side accused the other of being ‘Zionist’, this then consequently led to a loss of a million lives? You clearly lack knowledge. Saddam invaded Iran in order to spread his dominance in the region, the US government happily funded Saddam in order to pulverize the new Iranian regime. Noam Chomsky stated that “In 1979, the [Iranian] population overthrew the dictator, and since then the United States has been essentially torturing Iran. First they tried a military coup and it supported Saddam Hussein during Iraq’s invasion of Iran.”
http://therealnews.com/web/index.php 'Do the Democrats have a different answer on Iran?' (Scroll to 2:50)

What do you mean 'nice try'? I ain't out to fool anybody. Given BJ's past record, especially all his gaffs as The Spectator's Editor, I still say the man is an imbecile. So I would be genuinely surprised if could actually attract voters in large numbers.

Also I am not a 'zionist' spreading black propaganda. Go on, you tell me Boris Johnson isn't a clown. If you ran a politicial party and thought you could garner plenty of votes, enough to win, would you seriously put up plonker of the year as a serious candidate.

The Tories kind of abdicated their responsibility for choosing their mayoral candidate; they used an open primary system, with anyone voting against having to pay money which could be used by the camapaign of whoever won. So, even if you wanted to vote to keep Boris out, you had to risk contributing to his campaign when he had a substantial non-Tory support base.

If the Tories put up a functionary candidate who promised to roll back some of Livingstone's stupid schemes like the west London C-charge extension, the low emission zone (which risks putting hundreds of small businesses out of business because they cannot afford to buy new vans to replace the old, non-compliant vans they rely on, and also risks displacing hundreds of old and polluting trucks to provincial towns - think of your fellow Muslims up country folks!), I'd vote for him. As it happens, I'll probably vote for Brian Paddick, who promises to get rid of both these particular schemes and isn't known for being a bigot.

By the way: those green turbans probably indicate that they were members of Da'wat-e-Islami. Did they actually get the police onto the MPAC boys? If so, shame on them. By the way, Barelwis are not above using politics when it suits them, such as lining up with the people who opposed the Abbey Mills mosque, just so that they could prevent one more TJ centre being built.

Ooh shut up you Zionist! :)

Barbarossa - firstly let me apologise for failing to 'shut up' but since 'Light upon Light' addressed my e mail, I feel I ought to reply.

It was not I but Tahira who dragged Zionism into this discussion. The way some people on this site have Zionism on the brain is a sign of a kind of sickness, one infecting much of the Umma, sadly.

I did not suggest that the Iran / Iraq war was caused by each side calling the other 'Zionist'. I was merely using this fact to illustrate how deluded and damaging this obsession is, not to mention ridiculous.

As a non-Muslim, it is not for me to tell Muslims how to live their faith. But surely you can have a bit of respect and courtesy for those who place spiritual matters above political engagement, or indeed those like HT who place political engagement (albeit of a particular kind) at the heart of what they believe?

Otherwise, you are left saying 'We and only those like us are real Muslims, those who are more spiritual and less political or more political and less spiritual are all in the pay of the Zionists'.

This kind of Muslim-on-Muslim hatred gives rise to the huge loss of life in places like Sudan, Basra and Somalia, where Muslims are slaughtering each other. But since you can always blame this slaughter on the West or the Zionists or some such, you remain totally without introspection and therefore as far from a cure as ever.

Good work Mpac. It is funny the only thing a wahabi could post above was his opposition to Mawlid, but no hadith to prohibit it. Mawlid is permissable according to all four schools of thought. Scholars recomend it,such as Imam Suyuti, Ibn Kathir even Ibn Taymiyyah. Scholars such as Syed Ramadhan Buti gives numerous evidence for Mawlid so does Sheikh Gibrael Haddad. Vote against Boris!!

What is it with Muslims? First thing they do is go for the camera.

Two things: Tahira’s first two posts did not mention Zionism, and her third post, if you read carefully, was addressing how Zionists hate the way MPAC are waking up Muslims politically. Tahira’s arguments here are valid, and were not addressing the content of the video. So why the mindless criticism?!
Your comments were:
Note how you do not refer to Tahira. And that you refer to HT and MPAC. Tahira is not accusing the Brelvies of being Zionist either. You raised the issue because you saw the word ‘Zionist’.



Wrong again. If people told Jews that by having ‘Nazism in their head is a sign of a kind of sickness’, you’d think they are insane. Zionists are the enemy of Muslims; we acknowledge this fact and shouldn’t hide away from it.



You are making a feeble argument. The ‘Zionist’ label did not cause the war or the loss of a million lives. It had nothing to do with the reasons why they fought each other. So quit using this false ‘fact’ of yours.



MPAC are not at war with these people. As you can see in the video, MPAC were handing out leaflets to inform them about the elections, and the video highlighted the political ignorance of some people.



This issue is not about ‘who the real Muslims are’. It seems you have not understood or do not have the capability to understand my previous comments. MPAC does not accuse HT of being Zionist or Zionist funded. HT’s non-participation in voting indirectly helps certain politicians with an agenda that isn’t friendly to British Muslims.



This hatred you describe does not apply with MPAC. And again, you fail to understand that MPAC are helping the Muslim community. Sometimes you need to expose people of their ignorance.

Light Upon Light - I don't suggest MPAC accuses HT of being Zionists, but it is often an accusation made by those who are generally in line with MPAC's views - see for example AA in 'The Ballet Is Your Bullet'.

It is extraordinary how MPAC and its followers like you are always bringing up Nazism - and then endlessly accusing the Zionists of bringing it up! The analogy you use is ridiculous - the Nazis were bent on killing all Jews. The Zionists believe in a Jewish homeland in Israel or Palestine which has no doubt led to the loss of life on both sides. If you cannot see the difference - even if you hate Zionism - this debate is not worth continuing.

To spell it out, the life of every Jew was in peril from the Nazis. Do you really think the life of every Muslim is in peril from Zionism? Yes, in Kashmir, Chechnya, Darfur and San Fransisco, the Muslims are really waiting for a knock on the door from Mossad...

Once again, I am not suggesting that the Iran Iraq war was caused by each side really believing the other was Zionist. Rather, the fact that they called each other Zionists while slaughtering each other shows how ridiculous this Zionist obsession is.

Your view that MPAC is helping the Muslim community and HT and the Brelevis are leading it astray one way or another is so reminiscent of the leftist groupuscules of the 1970s (which you may be too young to recall but I am not). If you want to know how ridiculous they were, each claiming to be the only true representatives of the revolutionary working class, see the way they were parodied in 'Life of Brian'.

MPAC could be a bit more than the Judean People's Front if it stopped obsessing about Palestine (which does not mean ignoring it altogether but does mean getting some perspective on it) and stopped attacking other Muslims who do not agree with it.

The Mawlid is celebrated throughout the Islamic World with great reverance, a few people ranting bida, shirk etc. does not make the slightest difference. I suggest rather than go on the offensive and criticize fellow Muslims without real understanding of any issue, concentrate routing out the evil in yourself. We love to blame zionists, americans and virtually everyone under the sun for our own petty mistakes. It's high time to be honest with ourselves and stop the blame culture.

Totally unacceptable behaviour by those who were obstructing the brothers - does anybody know which Masjid they are based at?

The irony is in a month when they they celebrate the birth of The Prophet (PBUH)- yet they don't support groups or individuals who highlight certain people who are against Islam and make remarks against the Koran - the word of The creator.

May Allah show them the light and may Allah reward the brothers who were showing such patience in the face of such hostility.

I think majority of you are blind because this jaloos was about Rasoollaha sws and it was dedicated to the prophet, your leaflets can be distributed on another day... I also don't see why you have to emphisise that they are brelvis? they are muslims? surly your trying to get the community togeather not split them?

"they happy to spend all day praising on how great the prophet is but..!"

Mate there are no buts.. you need to sort out your sttitude.. not happy! I dislike the MPACUK now!

I won't be suprised if this is not published... you do no represent the majority!

I don’t get it. I don’t understand what MPAC are trying to do here.

The chap with the woollen cap can’t understand why these people would march for the prophet’s birthday but not when a copper kills a youngster. These things need not be mutually exclusive. You can have a demo and a procession for the prophet’s birthday. The chap seems to fall in the perennial prob with muslims. We the new fascists, everyone must agree 100% with us. Who said that fascism is dead in Europe eh?

Your argument about BJ and Ken have merit clearly If you want to mobilise these people by all means do so but just know who you are trying to influence.. These are Barelvis for whom like most sufi groups the prophet is viewed mystically. He is the first light from which all other light emanates. He is Gods beloved. His is a cosmic personality. For the MPAC brother the prophet is seemingly only a messenger. These are difficult issues and both positions may have merit but to try and influence these people and ridicule their procession at the same time is total ignorance. Just let them be when it comes to their beliefs, unless ofcourse you have issue with that, in which case mate you are on your own. Better you than me.

I really do agree with you there.. well said!

Who can have more love for the Prophet (peace be upon him) than his companions. Did anyone of take out processions like this? Those who saw the celebration of Prophet's birthday in Pakistan would not have failed in noticing the wastage in decorations which would have been outrightly disapproved by the Prophet (PBUH) and his companions. As a matter if anyone had attempted this during the time of Umar (RA) he would have lashed him in public. While watching news on Geo and public rushing to see the replicas of Ka'ba and the Rauza of the Prophet (PBUH), the expensive decorations and illumination in Karachi, a friend of mine commented, "If I was one of these journalists covering this event I would have asked the public how many of them had offered prayers." Did the Prophet not say that prayer was source of comfort to his eyes? But who cares? Rituals are more important. Visiting the grave of sufis, like Khwaja Ajmeri, gives as much reward as going to haj! Speaking for the rights of oppressed of fellow Muslims is considered politics despite that fact that it is clear from the hadiths of the Prophet (PUBH): 1 Telling the truth in front of a tyrant ruler is jihad; 2) When you see a wrong being committed stop it physically. If you do not have the power to do so condemn it verbally. If you do not have the power even to do that hate the act in your heart but this is the weakest sign of iman. 2) Once when Allah ordered the angels to punish a locality the angels said that there was a great pious man in the locality. Allah said start from him because wrong practices are being committed in that locality but the colour of his eyes did not change.

There are several verses in the Qur'an and several ahadith enjoining us to live an exemplary life but here we are either extremist jihadis or passive sufis or the liberals or cynics who, instead of admitting the faults of our community and trying to cure the disease, always find someone in the form of MI5, the government of the Zionists.

Dear brother Mayusufzai

You confusing things.

Sufism is legit or at least you must concede it as an alternative worldview. It has existed forever and most of the muslim world is steeped in it. Just as you quote all these good hadiths and verses of the quraan so can the sufi in support of his worldview.

It seems not even living in the west has taught you tolerance and the ability to live with others peacefully with a different perspective than yourself. You can disagree but no, you want to wage religious war on them and preach hate. You can't convince someone or bring them down because of what they believe. I don’t want to live in your society.

The issue of political activism is ofcourse a completely different one. Who can deny that the Islam of the prophet is a political Islam. It is true that the passive sufi sleeps while the ground from beneath his feet is stolen. To get him to care about his brother is distress while at the same time maintaining his beliefs is the challenge.

All these arguments about money being wasted are all spurious. Everyone wastes money on lots of things. If the sufi wants to beautify his beliefs by spending money so be it. What can be more important than what you believe in and what can stop you from spending on that which you love.

Ultimately it for the sufi he believes in God and that no one can help without his say so so I don’t know what the prob is. You read too many badly translated Darus salaam books mate.

Your brother

Assalaam walaikum and Greetings

I thought that I'd be a silent observer on this one (in case the word 'wahabi' was thrown around, but I felt compelled to comment.


1) When Muslims go out out of their way to 'celebrate' the Prophets Birthday, in Public Streets, then the same Muslims should also go out to 'demonstrate' the values that the Prophet Preached.

This means calling for justice, peace, equality, condemn terrorism, etc.

Otherwise, such Muslims are paying lip-service to the Noble Prophet.

So, as MPAC suggests, where are these Prophet-loving Muslims when their Brothers/Sisters in Palestine, Iraq, Afghan, etc are being killed. Where are the demonstrations for them ?

If you love Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), SHOW IT by following what he (PBUH) believed in and stood up for.
Or does your love for Islam and his Messenger just extend to celebrations ONE DAY IN A YEAR.

2) One Celebrates the Prophets Birthday NOT by celebrating his praises on a single day in a year but by celebrating his noble deeds and implementing his sunnah every month, every week, every day, every hour, minute, second of your (pitiful) existence.

If you think love for the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is expressed by celebrating his Birthday on a particular
(but disputed) day in a year, then you are mistaken.

To do this, we Muslims become no different to the Christians who celebrate the birth of the Son of Mary (Prophet Jesus - AS) one day in a year and then for the rest of the 364 days, they forget about what Prophet Jesus taught them.

Celebration of the Prophets Birthday is not down to who celebrates it on the (disputed) Brithday, but who implements his sunnah in every aspects of this life.

That is why the HADITHS never tell stories of the Companions celebrating the Prophets Birthday because by implementing the sunnah everyday, they were inevitably celebrating the Prophets Birthday EVERY DAY. AS A RESULT, they did not need to celebrate it ONCE every year as they did it ALWAYS.

But we Muslims, who do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING throughout the year THINK THAT SOMEHOW just by celebrating the Birthday on ONE DAY IN A YEAR, then we 'love' the Prophet. Give me a break.

As for the celebration itself : FACT. Trace History, then you will see that Prophet Muhammad's Birthday was
not celebrated until the Fatimides were the first to celebrate the Prophet's birthday (after several hundred years later).

So, initially the whole ummah was united in NOT Celebrating the Prophets Birthday.

What we do today is nothing short of 'innovation' that we have introduced to satisfy our beliefs that we must celebrate the Prophets Birthday.

3) I object to Mosques being decorated, lavish meals being given on Prophets Birthday (as they do so in Pakistan). What is the point of such a celebration when the poor and needy go hungry in Pakistan ?

If we Muslims must 'celebrate' the Prophets Birthday then do as the Prophet and his Companions would have done. That is : Feed to poor and destitute. Be friendly to neighbours, etc.

NOT to decorate the Mosques, do fireworks, have mixed-sexed meetings and lavish meals, while the hungry starve.

4) SUFISM, if practiced correctly is a way to cleanse your inner soul. All 'sects' of Muslims can be SUFIS too. Yes, even Wahabis can be SUFIs.

BUT, there is a right way of doing this and a wrong way.

Dancing in circles, visiting graves and asking for the deceased to help you, is NOT the way.

If you cannot see the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and his Companions doing what some modern-day SUFIs do then chances are it is wrong.

Any SUFI practice must adhere to Sunnah, otherwise it is an introduction AFTER the Prophet Muhammad(PBUH).

Wasalaams and Regards

Dear brother Omar

Assalamu Alaikum

Thank you very much for attributing to me things that I did not say in my email. I do not need the west to teach me tolerance. For me my ideal, the Prophet (PBUH) and his rightly guided companions were the most tolerant and enlightened people on earth and their examples and the book of Allah Subhanahu T'ala are enough to teach how to live and let others live and what to tolerate and what not to tolerate.

Let me tell you I am not opposed to sufism outrightly. I have great respect for sufis like Abdul Qadir Jilani, Rabia Basri, Muinuddin Chishti, Sheikh Sirhandi (he challenged as powerful emperor as Mughal king Akbar) and and many others. For them Islam was a way of life and not opium. Muninuddin Chishti (Rahmatullah Alaih) was a real da'i who risked his life, went to India and propagated Islam and brought thousands in the fold of Islam. Can anyone give an example from their lives if they ever shied away from their responsibilities and violated Islamic tenants, played music and danced and encouraged their followers to worship them? They were the true mujahids of their times. Can any grave worshipper/dancer quote a single hadith to justify his/her acts?

Yes I do not deny the fact that fact that the wastage, I repeat wastage, on these processions and decorations on the so called celebration of Prophet's birth day will have given some sort of consolation to the wasters. So does opium and liquor to many but it does not mean these acts may be called Islamic. And why should I not call it wastage, in fact blasphemy, when thousands of the followers of Muhammad (Peace be upon him)suffer in extreme poverty and yet in his name thousands are wasted despite the fact the he enjoined upon his followers not to waste resources and to be considerate. He clearly said that it was haram (forbidden) for them to fill their bellies when their neighbors were starving.

Someone in the above postings even claimed that the celebration of prophet's birthday was justified by the four Imams and even Ibn-e-Taimia but failed to give one singe reference.

I leave it to the readers of your comments to judge by your tone how much tolerant you are.

na deobandi whoo na barailve,sirf hudavandi aur muhammadi,joar ka kaam karna,toar ka nahi.
May Allah SWT unite us muslim ummah ameen.
Very interesting points,also the people who do the jaloos,how come when they pass a masjid that doesnt celebrate the march,there naaras start to go louder and louder (narai hadery)etc...

Why are we arguing about Fiqh when a man who called the Qur'an a book of hate, and called Islam "the problem" is about to gain power over 1 million Muslims in London???!

Salaams brothers

I am not from the subcontinent – I do not speak any of the languages, my family having left more than a 100 years ago - and do not fully understand what is a very degenerated tangle.

Suffice to say that my underlying point is very simple – throughout Muslim history there has been this 2 differing outlooks – both of which will provide proof from original sources. Ask Tahir ul Qadri, he will provide you with all the proof you need. I don’t want to go there. Can I concede that after Abu Hamid Ghazzali managed to fully legitimise Sufism, the Muslim world used the free licence to indulge in all things sufi and degerated to the extent that it almost required a Muhammad Abdul Wahab, if for nothing else than to bring some balance. Still, I don’t mind the dancing nor the music.

I am not responsible for anyones excesses except my own but you know when it comes to peoples beliefs – and we are talking of beliefs – you either accept their right to exist or you don’t. If you want to influence them and I presume you do, then you have to accept them as your brothers. Like I said, their procession – and I have never been on one – need not be to the exclusion of any political activism. If they are not your brothers then there is no discussion. I am also aware that some of them may not consider you as their brother.

You can’t have your cake and eat it. Let them be. They have a right to exist even if you find them distasteful. I for one find their lack of concern for anyone other than themselves as distasteful, but they can be influenced.

Anyways if I offended you please make maaf. I go to Umra with my 5 kids and pregnant wife this Sunday. Please make dua for me.

Your brother

Typical of these backward sects, instead of arguing over the fact that these green turban thick headed twits acted like thugs and stopped the good brothers and sisters of MPAC defending Islam, they argue about the permissability of marching on his Birthday!

What is more important - that these thugs have stopped Islam, and used their most disgusting words 'no politics' and then hid behind the prophet PBUH!

If the zionist gets in power - it will be these green turban thugs with no brains who will be to blame.

typical of mpacuk to act as the sidekicks of wahabis/salafis and hardline islamists. its very sad they are berating bravelis who are nice and spiritual and not causing any harm to anyone unliek the mpacuk's fav al qaeda types!

mpac, didnt you do this to the gujies tabligui in blackburn, asking them not to vote for zion nastie jack straw? and the brewlwies...is anyone safe


well done make all scared

I think you cant win this argument - the video is hardly going to endorse the your statement that the Sufi's are all nice people - they act more like al qaeeda then mpac to me!