I think we should be more worried about .orgs like ex Muslim council of Britain. As long as someone is maintaining to be a Muslim, we should leave them alone, as long as they are not spitting venom like the ex Muslim women are.

We keep falling for the oldest trick in the book of divide and conquer. We need to unite, as Muslims, rather then attack each other.

Being an Ismaeli, she only represents a minute proportion of British Muslims, anyway.

Firstly I agree you should not have to put up with people on the street shouting at you, but that happens to everyone, I myself, white, middle-aged have been shouted at on the london tube, it happens to people of all races and sexes and it is unpleasant.

Moving onto Sharia, there is much fear of Sharia taking a hold in the UK because the majority of people are not Muslims. It would be the same if, say there was a move in an Islamic country to force, say, scientology onto the population. Muslims have to get over the fear-factor if Sharia is ever going to see the light of day.

As an example, here is a link to how Sharia curtails womens rights: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Joy

Although Yasmin may have been a somewhat inflammatory (?unintetionally) in order to grab the readers' attention, she isn't totally talking out of her hat.

All this Muslim-hate has been attracted by the petulant and silly emphasis of the 'Dawah-Table' boys on 'dress' and 'pirate-beards' as the ONLY manisfestation of Sunnah. Likewise the silly girls are jumping in their jilbaabs all over the High Streets of UK. Sick-in-the-head 'Muslim' parents are forcing their 4 and 5 year old daughters to wear hijaabs, and village attire in the streets/schools of the UK.

These bearded rolled-up-trousers-haven't-got-hope-of-getting-a-proper-job boys wouldn't HOW to be a good Muslim.

And as for the Jilbaab girls: how 'Muslim' are they?

Do these boys and girls help their elderly neighbours (of whatever religion) with shopping errands, hospital transport, housework etc? Do they join the Police/Fire Brigade/Ambulance Service/Armed Forces and play a proper part in their country?

Are they educated? I don't mean going and 'worshipping' a so-called 'sheikh' and pretending that every word that drops from his lips is 'Sunnah'.

Its time these foolish mock-Arabs started practising Islam, and follow the Quraan and the Sunnah. Always bearing in mind that the Hadith was compiled 200 years after our Prophet (pbuh), and could well have been incorrect.

And Yasmin is not wrong when she says that a lot of the Sharia is medieval jusripudence; it is precisely that.

So, to the writer who complained about white-van-man shouting abuse at her, I say: stop lolloping around in your jilbaab-hijaab-kebaab debate. By all means dress as you wish, but do try and show by your DEEDS that you are a credit to Islam, the Prophet (pbuh) and the Sahabah. When you are good, all will see and you won't be abused anymore.

Oh, and BTW try and tell those in-bred moron-beards not go around blowing themeslves up and killing innocent people. That's if you don't want to be abused!

One more thing: if there are Mosques in the UK that don't allow women, or which are controlled mostly/entirely men, then these should be closed down immediately. Or else, make Zuhr and Asr into women-only Salah times.

Muslim women: be more like Khadijah, and shun the medieval moc-Arab beardies!

i agree i found Yasmin's article to be rather stereotypical inflammatory too...knee jerk reaction she thinks the worst of Muslims why she insists she is one i dont know...Xanana your post is rather hysterical is the sister who wrote this going on about the hijab-jilbab debate? was she wearing a jilaba or lolloping about it she says she was on school run..does she mentions mosques? you seem to think she deserved the abuse and does she knows the 'in-bred' (great use of that) beards that blow themselves up!! How many do you know? why dont you go lecture them? How about you redress the demonisation instead of adding to it?

who has the right to say yasmin is not a muslim or a good muslim?? isnt she pointing out the negative side of sharia??. every time a muslim stands up and says something unpopular they get beaten back down or called 'uncle tom'..as for sharia i think it should be one country one set of laws for all..by all means debate yasmin but questioning someones faith?? isnt god the judge?? H/T Xanana of England

xanana if you beleive what you have stated to be the reason why islam is being demonised then you have bought into the propaganda.
before muslims it was blacks,before then it was the irish before them it was the jews and so on and on.
the british governments create fear and paranoia as and when reqiured and about whom and at the moment it is muslims.
i will give you a brief example in 1940 the soviets were the msot evil thing on the face of the earth after the nazis, in 1941 they were gallant freedom fighters as it served the british governments purpose.
i have come to realise democracy means to win using all methods,if to win means having to demonise weak and minority groups then so bet it.

Assalaam walaikum and Greetings,

To be frank, when I read Yasmin Ali-Bhai Brown's article on the subject of Sharia, where she says...

"What Rowan Williams wishes upon us is an abomination and I write here as a modern Muslim woman. He lectures the nation on the benefits of sharia law – made by bearded men, for men – and wants the alternative legal system to be accommodated within our democracy in the spirit of inclusion and cohesion."

I thought : she obviously does not know anything about the true teachings of Sharia.

If she did, then she would understand that the Western System has adopted many aspects of Sharia that she takes for granted. She appreaciates what the West has given her and rejects the "medieval" Sharia, despite the fact that Western Laws implement Sharia (inadvertantly) more than Muslim Countries themselves (in terms of protection, rights, freedom of speech, etc).

To cite countries like Pakistan, Saudia Arabia, Iraq, etc as examples of why we should not have Sharia is incorrect. Such Countries, while they may have Sharia laws, do not actually implement them in the manner that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and his companions had made.

If they did, then justice would truly be served and those nations would be the sort any Muslim would like to live in. Alas, Muslims living in those countries wish for a better life elsewhere.

Alas, those Countries are not exactly the perfect role models of Sharia law.

Just as Yasmin Ali-Bhai Brown is not exactly the perfect role model for a "Muslim Woman's" spokesman.

Did I detect a bit of anti-HADITH in her statements ?
I sure did. She's not a QURANITE is she ?

I am sick of people like Yasmin thinking they can speak for me. What a joke!
The sharia would not be enforced over british law...it would only apply to muslims and only if they wanted it to.
She is more concerned about her own kudos than the Muslim community.
Sharia already exists as this article mentions...people just want to panic anytime Muslims are mentioned.
I don't care if there is moral panic...it is not against the law to have sharia, just like Ben Dith.
and xanana...you might want to quit being so judgemental yourselves. You pretty much say this sister deserved abuse...how can she show her good deeds to some twat in a van who is full of prejudice?
The distrust of Muslims is understandable to an extent...but I will not accept any responsibility or connection to men that advocate violence. why should I?

To Xanana of England which world are you living in. You call boys with beards having pirate beards and the parents of girls wearing hijabs as sick in the head muslims. what would you prefer clean shaven boys with a mohican haircut with earings looking more femanine then women. Girls wearing mini skirts and low tops having singers of pop groups as role models. That would very muslim wouldn't tell me how do you expect anyone know the difference between a muslim and a non muslim. Don't be an apologist for a muslim be proud of your religion.
You make sweeping statements about muslims being uneducated and somehow follow theire religion blindly. The muslim brothers and sisters are not only well versed in islam they are highly educated and have well paid jobs . You must be living in a cave, we have muslim brothers and sisters who are doctors, policemen/women, paramedics,nurses etc although when they are at work they wear appropriate attires they still keep beards, dress modestly, wear hijabs and men wearing their trousers above the ankle. Its nothing to do with having a beard or wearing a head scarf, people are in their professions because they are seen as valuable and loyal people who do their jobs properly. Having a beard is sunnah so are you saying that this sunnah should be ignored. Do you really believe that if our beloved prophet pbuh or the shabahs were somehow brought to life in this era that they would recognise you and i as muslims, i don't think so. Remember on the day of judgement people will be turned away by the farishtas (angels) and our prophet (pbuh) from the well of kauser because they will say you chose to follow the ways of the non believers, they will not recognise you as a muslim.
The in bred morons with beards you talk about again your asfixiation with the beard are shameful comments. You connected muslims who become radicalised to the extent of being a terrorist with them having a beard and may be come from a family where the mother and father are related, that is shameful and sick. Terrorist are terrorist whereever they are in the world and we should all try and weed these people out and the ones that are radicalising them too. Islamic jurisprudence is relevant now as it was at the time of our prophets pbuh time, and the tabieen and tabeh- tabeein are not just any old scholars who compiled the hadith.Eg Did you know if someone murdered another person, the victim of the family can ask for one of 4 things death penalty, money as compensation, life in prison or they can forgive and let the perpetrator go free. I know many emminent lawyers and QC's who believe that is a very fair system. Imagine the man of the house was murdered what would the wife get out of the death penalty, maybe she has lost her main income she can choose for the murderer to give her some sort monetry compensation.
Yasmin Ali Brown does not represent any muslims yet she comes across as she does. The BBC and other news organisations constantly ask her to come and talk about muslim issues, Why do you think they do that? i tell you why because she only has contempt for islam and thats what the media wants to put out. A so called moderate muslim speaking out against muslims and muslim issues so the subject in question looses all credibilty. I have in the past complained to the BBC after an appearance on Question Time that her views are not of a normal muslims. She is what the so called politicians would like to see the ;moderate muslim' who really being an ismaili is questionable whether she is a muslim at all.
Xanana if you really beieve by not having a beaard or wearing a hijab you won't get abused then your'e living in cuckoo land. Theres people out there who will abuse you if its not what you wear then the colour of your skin or may be the way you talk it could be anything. Some people will never accept you and i no matter what why? because we are seen as being different to them and that's it.

How can anyone possibly justify the abuse that was hurled at the writer? Yes, abuse has become very common, but that does not make any of it acceptable, no matter who the victim is.
To the incredibly judgmental and offensive woman (Xan-whatever your name is ): Khadijah (ra) was neither judgemental or foul as you have demonstrated yourself to be, so why you tell others to be like her when you are not yourself is very hypocritical.
There are mosques and men who behave appalingly against women and everyone in general (and they will always be 100% wrong and are clearly not following Islam), but this writer should not be held responsible for the morons that do blow themselves up, she was dropping her children off to school for goodness sake! What the hell has she got to do with them. Grow a brain.

erm.... if sharia is so bad how come some western countries have adopted sharia law they like from the quran and sunnah over the centuries.... maybe they like some bits and not others.

azaad you hadith rejecting apostate – how many names are you going to make up and come under in order to spread your kufr here?

Can you tell the Believing Muslims how you perform your Salah? - Ooops they’re based on Hadith!

Are you some sort of illegal immigrant living here that you feel the need to polish the shoes of the “native Brits” every time you see them? If you’re that desperate to become a Christian always know:

“There is no compulsion in religion”
(Al-Baqarah 2:256)

And if you want to become "white skinned" - Sorry can’t help you there.

Inferiority complex:
“Psychiatry. intense feeling of inferiority, producing a personality characterized either by extreme reticence or, as a result of overcompensation, by extreme aggressiveness. lack of self-esteem; feeling of inadequacy; lack of self-confidence.”

Colin

Reality - Do you have a special screen that receives postings that no one else can see? Why are answering messages that have not been sent? Please stick to addressing people who actually exists. A little weird!

That's all we need; Muslims accusing each other of Apostacy.

"And backbite not one another. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? You would hate it (so hate backbiting). And fear Allah. Verily, Allah is the One Who forgives and accepts repentance, Most Merciful.'' (49:12)

"And follow not (O man, i.e., say not or do not or witness not) that of which you have no knowledge. Verily, the hearing, and the sight, and the heart, of each of those ones will be questioned (by Allah).'' (17:36)

"Not a word does he (or she) utter, but there is a watcher by him ready (to record it).'' (50:18)

'Reality': you should take care when accusing/judging. You are not Allah.

Hadith for 'Reality':

First official collection of Hadith ordered by UmarII in 710CE, that is 78 years after the death of our Prophet (pbuh).

Your point about Salah falls, becasue if Salah was based entirely on Hadith (in written form), then you are accusing the Sahabah of not performing Salah. This is becasue you argue that until the Hadith on Salah was written down, Muslims didn't know how to perform it.

Salah, like the recitation of the Quraan, was already well established in practice within the Ummah, within the lifetime of our beloved Prophet (pbuh) (ministry lasted just ubder 23 years). Both the Quraan and the Salah are not tied to any cultural tradition or practice, and are therefore universal.

It is a commonsense observation that SOME of the Hadith MAY be inaccurate.

"Al Bukhari - 276 - `Ata' Ibn al-Sa'ib Ibn Zayd al-Thaqafi, also called Ibn al-Sa'ib al-Kufi.

`Abd Allah Ibn Abi Awfa told us and he narrated the hadith. `Abd Allah Ibn Abi al-Aswad said, from Abu `Abd Allah al-Bajali: He died in 136 AH. Yahya al-Qattan said: I never heard anyone criticize `Ata' Ibn as-Sa'ib's old hadith. Yahya was told: Is what Sufyan and Shu`bah narrated sahih ? He said: Yes, except two hadiths that Shu`bah heard in his later days'.


You have said before that the Quraan and the Hadith are equal:

"And We have enjoined on man goodness (Ihsan) to his parents, and if they contend with you that you should associate (others) with Me, of which you have no knowledge, do not obey them, to Me is your return, so I will inform you of what you did." (Al-Qur'an 29:8)

Beware of following that of which you have no 'knowledge'.

You have also been racist, assuming that I'm not 'white skinned', and not native British.

Still, I forgive you.

Readers will read your post and my reply, and decide for themselves which is more Islamic.

Really 'Reality' that's an terrible post.
Take a chill pill!
I certainly don't disagree with Xanana of England. If u don't like what he/she says why don't u leave Britain and go to misogynist Arabia? I am happy here and want to make the Ummah respected again. I want Muslim women and girls to stand up for themselves and not be eternal diswashers.

Women and girls are reclaiming Islam. Better get used to it.

btw u r so racist!

Right,

@azaad, “Reality’s sister” (for Gods Sake), Melissa, and maybe even “Colin” (just joking mate) – are you all the same person by any chance?! lol

azaad – your now saying – SOME of the Hadith maybe inaccurate – who decides which ones – you? Do you pick and choose which was one is inaccurate according you your own twisted whims and desires?

“…………..and follow not your desire for it will mislead you from the Path of Allâh.” (Sad 38:26)

Who has preceded you in what you are saying in the last 1400 years?

On the issue of Salah – all the steps of the rituals of Salah can be traced back to Hadith and also if you attend Masjids you will notice slight variations in how people actually perform their Salah due to the existence of different schools of thought in methodology & principles of deriving rulings from the Quran and Sunnah (hadith)

I wish to know – because you deny the legal status of Hadith and believe in its irrelevance – how do YOU determine how to perform Salah correctly as the Sahabah (ra) did–without referring to Hadith and the legacy of the Islamic sciences - its branches and 1400 yeas of the efforts of Ulema in order to preserve it?

Ahmad, Abu Dawood and al-Haakim reported with a saheeh isnaad from al-Miqdaam that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Soon there will be a time when a man will be reclining on his couch, narrating a hadeeth from me, and he will say, 'Between us and you is the Book of Allaah: what it says is halaal, we take as halaal, and what it says is haraam, we take as haraam.' But listen! Whatever the Messenger of Allaah forbids is like what Allaah forbids." (Al-Fath al-Kabeer, 3/438. Al-Tirmidhi reported it with different wording, and said that it is hasan saheeh. Sunan al-Tirmidhi bi Sharh Ibn al-'Arabi, al-Saawi edn., 10/132,)

And Melissa with all due respect – if I don’t like what “Xanana of England” says – why the heck should I leave England?? – This is my flipping country – every inch of it and if I and other Muslims here want to grow the beard etc – what the heck is anyone’s problem?! – If you and even the native non-Muslim Brits don’t like the way things are here and how things are going – frankly you should leave and are welcome to so! – go to Spain or somewhere.

azaad et al – be reminded the days of colonialism are gone my friends – so free yourselves from the shackles of mental slavery which you seem to be suffering from - be completely free, don’t let them make you THINK what is acceptable, unacceptable, good or bad but base your beliefs solely on what Islam says.

And any illegal immigrants here – p**** off back to your country – we don’t need kuffar bootlickers here suffering from severe inferiority complexes making things unnecessarily difficult for us practicing PROUD Muslim Brits.

So stop taking us backward……. look forward to the future:

- Eurabia and Londonistan as its Capital.

Peace.

Reality

Your post shows that clearly you are not a practising Muslim.

You would never have said 'p**** off', (one asterisk too many btw) becasue that is contrary to the following Hadith:

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said, "He who believes in Allah and the Last Day must either speak good or remain silent.''
[Muslim].

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said, "A man utters a word pleasing to Allah without considering it of any significance for which Allah exalts his ranks (in Jannah); another one speaks a word displeasing to Allah without considering it of any importance, and for this reason he will sink down into Hell.''
[Al-Bukhari].


Take care.

I still forgive you.

Your post is very inflammatory and will do great damage to the British Ummah, and give ammunition to Islam's enemies, such ad David Murray.

I wish you to start studying Islam properly. After reading your posts people will realise that Yasmin isn't clueess after all!

So Reality, I should have guessed u r a man (with a beard). No wonder u don't like women/girls standing up for themselves.

Never forget this is a pagan country (always has been).

"Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget;
For we are the people of England, that never have spoken yet."

@azaad:
Azaad are you now quoting Hadiths! – Picking and choosing what suits you – I rest my case!

Azaad seriously you may be wondering why I am extremely harsh with you – but this is what you should exactly expect when in all of your posts here regardless of what name you come under you throw insults and treat brothers and sisters who are upon the Sunnah like sh** - for your information I am not some pacifist Sufi who you can mock, swear at, slap my face, pull my beard and kick my backside and expect in return the Christian attitude of “Turn the other cheek” or:

Nope mate you slap my face and pull my beard and I’ll kick you into a coma – that’s right lad - I’ll imprint a permanent boot-mark right across your cheek.

Hostility will be met with hostility – start showing a bit of respect and tolerance regardless of how much YOU hate Islam and I will not treat you harshly – simple.


Melissa I think you got me wrong – I am all for women standing up for themselves!

Also Melissa dear didn’t they also use to say:

“The Sun never sets on the British Empire”

LOL!!