I notice that you don't seem to include your own behavior here as part of the cause.

John

John,


when you say 'your own behaviour' you mean when Muslims colonised the UK?

or do you mean when Muslims, killed half a million british children through sanctions..

or do you mean what ever a muslim does, all of us have to take collective responsibility?

It started when tony bliar became bushes poodle.
The british people had to be brainwashed into considering muslims as enemies and the media did the bidding of the government.
we had 30 years of I.R.A christian bombings which killed thousands but there was never this constant propaganda against catholic christians.
islamophobia is a carefully crafted programme to keep the masses dumbed down to pass all the laws they want,before it was the soviets now it is islam,it seems some people cannot live in peace they always need to demonise others to pass laws that will in the end effect everyone.
so please do not patrionise us.

[quote=John C]I notice that you don't seem to include your own behavior here as part of the cause]

Your response is like saying that racism is the fault of the victims of racism. Although there are a growing number of white people that would like to believe that their racism is the fault of muslims, jews, asians blacks etc.... this idealogy of blaming the victims of racism for the racism of the society in which we live
is only so that white people can justify and create a smoke screen for the racist society in which we live. Your comments is like blaming black people for slavery and the people in south africa for apartheid etc....

Nowhere is the term Islamophobia mentioned in Islam but racism is. The term Islamophobia was thought up by a trust in the 1990s and taken up by some muslims.

i think it started when atrocities were commited in the name of islam,,i agree with John C,,muslims are to quick to blame everyone else,,and when someone disagrees they are called a zionist.

So all muslims behave badly and that leads to Islamophobia?

No, I would not say that the act of a few, accounts for the acts of the many. You see - I have an open mind.

John C: That was a stupid and small-minded comment.

The reason that there's Islamophobia in the media is because nobody's actually cared about Muslims before. The whole Middle-East (defined as the land over which you travel to India and China if you're a European from the 12th century) has sort of minded its own business since forever.

Up until the 1980s no Western citizen had really ever seen it mentioned in media, and suddenly in the 90s with the oil things and conflicts Muslims popped up everywhere, never mind the new influx of refugees from those nations.

The revelation bring an insecurity similar to that which you'd experience if you had studied English very diligently for a long time but realised half the British population speaks so jumbled that you can't understand them anyway (this has happened to me, and led me to the conclusion not that I'm not good enough, but that they can't speak properly, point proven).

M.give us some evidence that people carried out criminal acts because islam told them to do so.
but i can tell you when america invaded iraq it said on the bombs being loaded pray to Allah if he does not listen try Jesus and this was on the news.

The comments from muslims on here are almost beyond belief!!! It is as if you think you muslims have done nothing at all to evoke dislike, parading before us a sense of whining grievance and victimhood. What about the Salman Rushdie affair when mobs of you burnt books and demanded the death penalty for a novelist? What about 9/11? What about the Madrid and London tube bombings? What about the many many foiled attempts to bomb and kill us (strasbourg christmas market, the 2nd attempt to bomb the london tubes, and the more recent foiled attempt in Spain??) You people leave me speechless with disbelief. And to go on about our racism when none of you would allow your daughters or sons to marry a native white european is outrageous hypocrisy. And then there's all the aggressive posturing, demos demanding death for this or that offence against your sky god religion (danish cartoons for example). Then there's the aggressive wearing of that ghastly medieval garb which you've only taken to doing since 9/11 even though you know it infuriates us because of what it represents, (in case you don't realise, it represents to us darkness and subjugation and oppression. You people really make me laugh you really do. Get real and get control of your hothead youths.

What you are saying m is that atrocities that are committed in the name of islam must stop before you and john c can rid yourselves of racism and animosity against others but that atrocites that are committed against muslims, so long as they are not attributed to white christainity then those atrocities are ok.
l

David your drivel is pathetic. Who do you mean by us? I presume you mean white anglo saxons who you seem to think have more rights than anyone else because you are white anglo saxon by birth.

Unless you've noticed this country is inhabited by all sorts of people but you think you've got the right to tell others how they should live their lives whilst you choose your own way of living. Maybe you think we're living in some kind of enslavement camp where everyone that is non-white works and pay taxes to the white masser and in return is taught by the masser how to become good civilised human beings and live just as the white masser wants

Then I suppose that you and your sort will want to go around the world enslaving, brutalising, killing and maiming people telling them that it is for their own good until you force them to be accept your notion of white superiority over others.

That's the whole problem you pathetic racists are so shallow that you just can not accept other people living their lives as they choose.

By the way tolerance was in Islam over 1400 years ago and you still don't seem to have discovered it in the 21st century. A good reference is the tolerance shown in muslim spain. It is the only time in history where jews, chritians and muslims have lived together in harmony and mutual respect as taught in and by islam.

You do it if you can....

You accuse muslims of burning books which the media hyped up adn got every white englishman and woman thinking that the history of english literature and freedom of speech was under threat and yet now in our country muslims cannot have certain books in their posession, cannot say certain things, cannot think certain thoughts and you talk about burning books. Boy you must really hate muslims to agree to what is happening to all muslims.

L, you really should learn some history, honeypie.

I find it breathtaking that you have this utterly rose tinted view of islamic history, a history that is predicated upon conquest by force of arms - iran, all of north africa, iraq, then onto India, where muslims destroyed buddhist civilisation and enslaved the hindu population.

As for spain, there never was a golden age where christians, jews and muslims lived in harmony, that's a lie and a myth put about by your pseudo historians - this muslim occupation of someone else's land also was predicated upon slavery of the majority christian population. Christians and jews were not allowed to work for the govt, weren't allowed to build churches, were not allowed to ride horses. And had to pay a huge tithe (that's a tax) because they were not muslims. This almost nazi-like occupation of spain by a minority muslim ruling class was maintained by brutal force of arms and many uprisings by the christians were brutally put down.

Read some proper history not the ladybird history of muslim lies.

As for your vile opinions about poor salman rushdie well, they're beneath contempt.

This thread started in order to discuss why you lot are hated by us (yes, us white indigenous people, who set this country up) and I gave a long list of reasons. Now all you have managed to do is support my prejudices and turn them into rational reasons for disliking you and supporting the authorities fully in their attempts to stop you in your tracks from trying to create a muslim land here. Islam has had a very bad and evil effect on the culture of this country, now everyone is scared of death threats, or death, if they criticise your nasty religion.

I note you completely ignore the reasons I listed as the root causes of islamophobia, namely the attempts, successful and unsuccessful to kill and maim us, And yes "Us" the white indigenous people of these islands and the broader European continent, who had the kindness to allow you to settle here when your attempts to run your own countries end in disaster and you emigrate.

You cannot compare wearing and flaunting that dark satanic medieval garb as being equivalent, say, to a punk lad wearing a mohican haircut or a girl dying her her hair orange, as some lifestyle choice. It is not the same, because one is youthful rebellion against parental values, whereas your lot wearing that evil dark clothing with the full face mask is, as you are all fully aware, intended to annoy and aggravate us and states to us- "F*ck you all and your western secular values".

David, you said the white "indigenous" people of these islands. Well then its pleasure to meet you I would be delighted to hear your tells of you fought off the Roman Empire, Anglo Saxons, Vikings and the Normans.
I had been under the distinct impression that we where all kill.
And what is your grievance with wearing that dark clothing with the full face mask, is it really intended to annoy and aggravate us. I truely hope you don't read THE SUN cause that would explain the grievance with wearing dark clothing with the full face mask i'm sure those page 3 girls havn't join a nudist colony

Dave may god be with you my son

How many tiny minds do we have to comre across, Firstly Salman Rushdie is a muslim, yes some people believe this is not true but the fact is he is but is not part of any muslim community this is for his own safety.

Secondly i have always stated that racism and hatred is prevelant in society no matter what, so as for when Islamaphobia started well i would say it's a mystery for many years as some parts may always have been racists it's like asking how long is a piece of string, exactly it's a rhetorical question you can't answer it.

David - if it really, really hurts and grieves you as a christian to have to admit that Islam gave the world everything that christianity was not able to then just twist history to suit your purposes as much as you want.

Even better join the bliars club if you are not already a member.... you know the one that goes into illegal wars.....

Savid - sorry to let you know that the country that you say white indigenious people set up, included sharia law when you set it up, only you don't know it and I am also sorry to tell you honey pie that the country in which you say you kindly let us come into no longer exists.

Instead you have a country and an economy that has had to rely on immigrants from around the world honey pie.

Tomas

get real, there is NO creator sky god. The idea of a "god" is man made concept.

and the rest of you have refused to comment upon the main points I made, but like the intellectual inadequates you are , merely nibble at the edges of what I say.

Sad, but to be expected from faith based minds.

David, some of your comments are a tad extreme. However I think talk of 'Islamaphobia' is silly. Muslims do need to condemn more those who propose killing indiscrimately in the name of Ilam in order to retain credibility. of course racism is different and should be opposed.

Many people view Islam and its followers as hostile to other groups.

This view is supported by (1) frequent evidence of plots to conduct terror acts; (2) frequent surveys showing muslim populations hostility to the broader population; (3) the tone of muslim comments within the forum of this website; (4) rather troubing excerpts within the Koran that do seem to encourage violent acts against non-muslims ; (5) evidence that Muslim regions tend to have hostilities with non-Muslim neighbouring regions regardless of the culture of the non-muslim regions (e.g. southern Thailand, southern Philippines etc); (6) frequent comments that attack at the fabric of modern western society (e.g. dismissive comments with respect to democracy); (7) the manner in which apostasy is inforced within Muslim communities (you are free to join the religion but you are not free to leave); (8) the fear that muslims would like to enact elements of Sharia law with respect to their own communities; (9) the much rates fertility.

In summary Islam is viewed as a separate and distinct system and beliefs that is hostile to indigenous systems and beliefs. Hence, Islam is viewed as dangerous to values and institutions that many non-muslims in the UK hold dear.

In that sense, Islamophobia is certainly understandable.

Islamophobia is an exercise of spurious inference leading to collective culpability. Even only one Muslim may have committed the foul deed, all are held responsible regardless of any actual guilt.

Tackle the causative factors of collective culpability, then you are on the way to addressing the problem of islamophobia.

Promote and bring about a popular culture of evidence-based reasoning then the prevalance of spurious inference should decline and with it various prejudices. One of which is Islamophobia.

David

As a Muslim, I say: you will be surprised to read that I don't totally disagree with you. However you have really undermined your argument by being incorrect (or conveniently selective) with your historical facts.

You forget that Muslim Spain was the only place north of the Mediterranean where Jews could live without being hunted down and killed, by the Christians (who blamed, and still blame them for 'killing our Lord). You forget the Christrian slaughter of Red Indians by the tens of millions; the slaughter of Incas and Aztecs; the slaughter of Australian Aborigines, the incineration of babies/children/elderly in Hiroshima/Nagasaki; the Holocaust of six million people; the murder of 60 million people in the two 'world' wars.

Islamophobia has its root in the dawning realisation among Christians that there is no truth in the Church-taught Christianity (pedo priests, ultra-wealthy churches feigning poverty as gullible & poor go to 'Mass' etc etc). Now there are gay priests, gay marriages etc, and its practically 'anything goes'!

On top of that the Zionists have 'sold a pup' to the West in general and fooled the 'goyim' into believing that 'Islam is a threat', and, in the process, the goyim have spent upwards of $500 billion in pointless wars. As for Hindus, well, can you really take any one seriously when they bow and genuflect in front of a stone statue of a multi-limbed gorgon?.



But I do think that the Jilbaab Girls and the Beardy Boys (with their, silly, rolled-up trousers) arouse first disdain, and then hostility. I also agree that the screeching, howling, bearded mobs who rush to the streets at every offence, burning flags/books etc are a disgrace.

And the idiots who blow themselves up (when Islam requires them to fight with their 'life' -- and not with their 'death')die in vain, and their death endangers the Ummah, to boot.

I just wish that the jilbaab/niqaab wearing girls/women left the West and went to Muslim countries where there husbands/fathers/brothers could beat them whenever they wanted; where they wouldn't be allowed to drive; where they would not be allowed to attain high office or senior professional position; where they wouldn't be allowed to speak in public. But wait: they are safer, freer, in the West, so here's where they will stay. And with their petulant behaviour endanger the rest of the Ummah. After all, the in the West a woman cannot be whipped in public for disobeying her husband.

They say: 'but we were born here' we have the right to stay'. That's despite the fact that they consider the land of Kuffar to be 'filth'. Well, if you were born in a toilet, would you insist on living there?

sorry to say david but it is not muslims who say spain was the golden age of muslims-jewish and christians living togather it is christians and real jews who have written books and made programmes to this effect.
do you know we are always lectured on freedom of expression but when muslisms use that freedom of exression bigots-racists and islam haters like yourselves cannot take it.
we are citizens and taxpayers of britain and we have rights just like others.
so do not patrionise us.

Forget Croquet and Pimms.
Islamophobia replaced the age old British sport of Paki bashing.
Tally ho chaps!
You remember that? With smatterings of phrases from the Mother of the Commonwealth such as:
''F*ck off to your own Country''

and that old Tory musical number(now sung by Jack Straw and the group The New Labour Whips):

''You Smelly Old Pak''

Blair and New Labour also outlawed fox hunting as this was too direct, too bloody, and overtly barbaric and thus bad for New Labour's image.
They needed a subtle alternative that they could torture and bully slowly whilst still giving the impression that they were going out of their way for them i.e. allowing minarets here and there. That's spin for you.

"You forget that Muslim Spain was the only place north of the Mediterranean where Jews could live without being hunted down and killed, by the Christians (who blamed, and still blame them for 'killing our Lord). You forget the Christrian slaughter of Red Indians by the tens of millions; the slaughter of Incas and Aztecs; the slaughter of Australian Aborigines, the incineration of babies/children/elderly in Hiroshima/Nagasaki; the Holocaust of six million people; the murder of 60 million people in the two 'world' wars."

Er actually world wars one and two had nothing to do with Cristianity. In fact Christians stopped them. On a more serious note what is of concern with regards to Spain and whether Christians, Jews and Muslims were treated there equitably under Islam, is the fact that a body of Muslims world wide wish to see that form of governance again globally. That is Sharia law from the 7th century being imposed in britain and all other the world. Mods - I know this is wandering off topic but I don't believe that sticking up for democracy and pluralism as opposed to theocracy is Islamaphobic.

James muslim law cannot be implemented on non muslims.
as for islamic law in britain it can only be applied to muslims in their personal lives,islamic law believes prevention is better than cure.
sharia punishments act as a deterrent as criminals know they will get a harsh punishment for their crimes.

one thing that always happens on these topics is muslims talking about things that happened centuries ago,,,some of the comments are intellectually dishonest,,my first comment was..Fact:their is a threat from SOME muslims,,it is not fair that all muslims become targets..Question: how would muslims deal with the threat of terrorism..ps the ira never killed in the name of god..we are going round in circles and after reading these threads i am startin to think i am an islamophobe..just like some of you are anglophobes..can we ever work it out??

Leaving aside the terrorism, the barbaric laws, the oppressive, anti-assimilation dress code, the on-going grievance theater, the "blame everyone else" attitude and the hideous, violent over-reaction to any slight offense. Leaving aside that huge mountain of provocation, there's still no valid reason why people shouldn't be what you call "Islamophobic".

Equally, we should have the freedom to hate Marxism or capitalism. We should be able to deride vegetarianism or global warming skepticism.

We should be able to slag off David Cameron without being labeled an "evil conservaphobe".

We should be free to hate Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Wicca and Atheism.

And yes - we should be free to hate Islam, its teachings and precious bleeding prophet.

Islam could be as innocuous, peaceful and gentle as the Andrex Puppy, but we should still be free to vilify it if we want.

This is because Islam is not a person, a people or a race. It isn't an affliction or affectation.

It's ideas and ideas are there to be challenged, questioned, loved or hated. It isn't personal (even if people take it personally).

The freedom to express our hate of Islam, should not be confused with any blanket bigotry towards Muslims. It's "Islamophobia" I'm defending, not "Muslimophobia". If you can't see the difference, that's your identity crisis, not my cultural ignorance.

There should also be no confusion between racism and Islamophobia. Islam is not a race. You can't even say that adherents of Islam are a race.

Since your kneejerk reaction is always to compare the treatment of Muslims with the treatment of Jews, let's look at that.

As a Jew, I have no problem with anyone attacking the doctrines, history, patriarchs and clergy of Judaism.

If you say something I disagree with, I treat it as an opportunity to argue the truth.

I don't wet my knickers and cry about "hate crimes".

Hating Judaism is not the same as hating Jews. Just as hating Islam is not the same as hating Arabs or Asians.

There is no such thing as islamophobia there is an awareness of the truth about islam and all it stands for. What does it stand for? So-called prophets indulging in pedophilia, plundering of peaceful merchant caravans, beheading non-believers, forcing the world to become islamic, claiming to be the victim when muslims are the criminals, honour killings, death martyrs, mothers preparing their children to kill themselves, killing people who leave islam such as the 70-year-old woman in Pakistan who recently left islam and becam a christian and was burned to death on February 5th this year, I could go on and on and on. If there was such a thing as islamophoboia it would be well justified.

M,your hypocrisy is all to apparent,the i.r.a never killed in the name of religion,so they were catholics and their adversaries were protestants.
this has nothing to do with it, that is why catholics were killed by protestants and vice versa,that is why clergymen were used as go betweens.
so tell me where and when someone said i am killing because my religion tells me to do so and it has nothing to do with occupation and oppression.

Karl jones you are too late with that horse manure its been said a million times and its been shown to be full horse s**t.
read all the previous blogs we do not have time for full of hate pathetic excuses for humanity such as yoursleves.

Karl Jones

It's about time you woke to 'Christrocities' such as: murder of millions of Red Indians; murder of millions of Incas/Aztec; exemplary rape/butchery/torture of native populations as means of conversion to a so-called religion; six million exterminated in the Holocaust; Apartheid and the deliberate murder of black children; the idustrialised slavery of hundreds of millions of Africans; the incineration of babies/children/elderly of Hiroshima and Nagasaki; the death of 50+million
people in the 2 so-called 'world' wars; pedo priests galore; man-to-man/woman-to-woman marriages -- I could go on and on.

Oh, and excuse me: who was it that used to burn 'heretics' at the stake? How many women do you think were burned at the stake for being 'witches'?

Phobia indeed!