| The Times Own Uncle Tom 'Abul Taher' Gets Racist |
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| Monday, 04 February 2008 | |
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When the girl arrived from Pakistan expecting to meet the handsome man she had been shown in a photograph, she found that he was 40 years old, unemployed and disabled. To make matters worse, her mother-in-law decided to exploit her attractive looks by forcing her into prostitution. The family invited men to the family home to rape her before she managed to escape to the police by bolting through the front door. She was taken into care and now lives in a refuge. The case is highlighted in a report by the Centre for Social Cohesion, which has found that policemen, councillors and taxi drivers are turning a blind eye or even conniving in enforcing the Asian community's strict "moral code" on young women. The girl's marriage last April was not recognised by the Home Office but was approved by the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain. She is typical of the runaway brides at risk of an "honour killing". According to official figures, 10 to 12 women are murdered in Britain in honour killings each year, but the government has been warned by MPs that this is a serious underestimate. Police often record the deaths as cases of domestic violence, while other girls are driven to suicide or taken away to their family's country of origin and never seen again. Many Asian parents would rather resort to violence against their children than see their reputation tarnished by the perceived dishonour of allowing them to become "westernised". The report, Crimes of the Community, claims the problem is no longer an issue of first-generation migrants importing attitudes from "back home" but is "indigenous and self-perpetuating" because it is sustained by third and fourth-generation immigrants. The study reveals the case of Saamiya, a 16-year-old girl from Birmingham, whose parents were so angry when they discovered she had a boyfriend that they flew her to Pakistan and told her they had arranged a marriage two hours before the ceremony. "During the Islamic ceremony my dad was standing behind me with one hand on my shoulder and with his other hand he had a gun which was pointed at my back so that I didn't say 'no'," Saamiya said. "To everyone else it looked natural — he was just standing there stroking my shoulder — but just before he had told me that he would shoot me if I didn't go through with it." She was rescued from Pakistan by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office's forced marriage unit and now lives in a refuge in the Midlands, but has been told that she will be murdered by her brothers. The girl told investigators: "I haven't been back home since then. My brothers say that they want to take me back to Pakistan so they can kill me basically. They'll just pay the police there to keep quiet... I don't want to be killed. I'm only 16. I want to live my life." The think-tank's report comes after Gordon Brown, the prime minister, said last week that he was extremely concerned that too little was being done to prevent honour crimes. The study criticises the police and schools for failing to take action in a misguided attempt to avoid offending cultural sensibilities. Karma Nirvana, a support group in Derby, claims it asked local schools last year to display warning posters produced by the forced marriage unit. It said the schools refused. Derby council last week denied that the group had made the requests, but the prime minister has pledged to investigate reports that the government unit cannot get its advice posters into schools for fear of upsetting local opinion. According to the report, women who go to the authorities to seek protection have been tracked down through their mobile phones or even by leaks of confidential information from government databases. Jasvinder Sanghera, director of Karma Nirvana, said that police who find girls who have escaped from their families often simply return them to their parents where they face further abuse, with some Asian officers actually colluding in crimes. Sanghera is taking a case to the Independent Police Complaints Commission of a girl who fled her family but was kidnapped by relatives and held prisoner. She claims that a police officer tipped off the family where the girl was staying. "Police have a long way to go before they get on top of honour crime. There is a lingering fear among officers of being dubbed racist for probing cultural issues. We've got to shake off that myth," she said. Source: The Times
MPACUK comment: We wonder what has Muslim got to do with this story? This is surely a cultural evil and nothing to do with Muslims. Once again Abul The Uncle Tom from the Times seems to be part of the machine that wants to demonise the Muslim community in the eyes of the wider community.
   Readers have left 24 comments.
Dr. Hanan:
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I must say when I read the article before reaching the paragraph of mpac's comment, I was thinking exactly the same thing. It happens nobody will deny that but it is OBVIOUSLY a CULTURAL issue and not an Islamic one AT ALL. Islam gives women full rights in determining who their marriage partner will be. She is allowed to refuse to marry someone no matter WHAT the reason. She is allowed to refuse ALL suitors if she so wishes to remain single her whole life. This story highlights an ignorant cultural issue. Also the Sharia courts demand a million and one things before approving a marriage and if it didnt then the marriage is not valid and it was not conducted according to the Sharia law. I have just been married recently and faced months of delay because so much paperwork had to be verified. Its not easy to just get married like that. Where was the bride's father or brothers? Its not enough to give consent over the phone they need to be accompanying her or otherwise giving power of attorney which has been attested at the appropriate embassies and ministries along with passport copies to verify signatures etc and the girl if at any time when asked by the cleric conducting the ceremony has the option of refusing...why on earth did she go ahead to marry a retarded 40 yr old if she was aware she had been scammed anyway?? This story is too flawed in many aspects and personally I have trouble believing it. If it was true in any part, there have been grave errors made out of stupidity and ignorance on part of all parties involved. I think along with a cultural issue this is a story about how the girls parents possibly sold her out of poverty (a SOCIAL issue) and out of dreams and hopes of her acquiring British nationality and eventually possibly having a better future. Naive or utterly stupid indeed.
(1)
2008-02-04 07:17:22
shan:
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I Can say with a degree of certainty that this story is not what it seems.
the lady in question does not wish to stay with her husband so to make it look good and make sure she gets permanent stay in the country,these stories are weaved. people coming from pakistan do not give a hoot as to who they are being married to as long as they get into britian and get permanent stay. this is not just a female matter but the same with males,they come into the country and once they get permanent stay then their real face shows. there are plenty of agencies out there to give advice on what tpo say and how to say to make sure you get what you want as the system is designed in a way to make sure the men is always at fault. if you were to hear the excuses these type of immigrants come up you wil be shocked.
(2)
2008-02-04 10:21:05
shan:
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I have just read another story on times on line about 6 suicide bombers being stopped at gatwick airport by a tip of from barcelona.
Mpac this is your chance to show what you can do to outright malicous anti-muslim behaviour inciting religious hatred. the foreign secretary david miliband has shown regret and has apologised for any offence in this matter,as the 6 people stopped were the pakistani ruling group leaders brother and his nephews. the british high commisoner in islamabad was called in and a protest lodged yet this dishonest newspaper after knowing all the facts prints a clear lie as incitement to religious hatred. if muslim groups cannot do anything about such blatant lies when will they act.
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2008-02-04 10:41:34
Reality's Sister:
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Dear MPAC:
What it has to do with Muslim is that these practises are perpetuated by fools who will shout 'Sharia', 'Sharia' whenever they want to oppress women. You can be sure that such atrocities are condoned by (illiterate) bearded 'elders' and illiterate women in 'jilbaabs/niqaabs'. It should be made illegal to import village girls (of uncertain age) from Pakistan, (particularly)to wed British men. Similarly, in instances of forced marriages of young British girls, the husband's family should be jailed for life. We DON'T want the 'village' people here, thank you! British Muslims are struggling to play a positive part in British society (as shown by MPAC's work), and these idiots keep dragging us back.
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2008-02-04 11:53:17
shan:
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if a reality check is done it will shown it is muslim men who are the oppressed party as well.
they work like dogs all day and come home to food that was cooked a few days ago. the wife was too busy watching dramas and movies,so less of the opressed women malarkey,muslim men are opressed as well.
(5)
2008-02-04 13:40:31
Abu Haadiya:
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Reality's Sister - you must be the most backward person posting on this site. The enemies of Allah try and link such evil practices to Islam, and instead of responding to this you attack the Sunnah of our Prophet! It is because MPACUK are full of Anti Islamic people like you, that they have become one of the most hated Muslim groups about. You want to defend Muslims but at the same time you attack Islamic practices. If the prophet of Allah was to come into the world today, then people like you would be the first to oppose his practices. Go and crawl back into whatever hole you came from, and leave the job of defending Islam and Muslims to the real believers.
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2008-02-04 14:03:49
gr0undh0g:
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Blimey one that got through the net eh?
You want to defend Muslims but at the same time you attack Islamic practices. If the prophet of Allah was to come into the world today, then people like you would be the first to oppose his practices. Go and crawl back into whatever hole you came from, and leave the job of defending Islam and Muslims to the real believers. — Abu Haadiya
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2008-02-04 15:39:37
Reality's Sister:
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@Abu Haadiyaa
If our Prophet was to come into the world today then the people like will be the first to be ashamed to realise that all along you have been fooled and are following not what he taught but simply male-dominated 8th century Arab culture. You would also have to explain why the so-called 'Sharia' is applied more harshly to women than to men, who get let off time and time again. These utterly backward men will think nothing of beating their wives, daughters, perhaps even molthers in the name of Islam. If you support the subjugation of women then you are no follower of our Prophet (pbuh). How you can say that MPAC is 'full of anti Islamic people' is beyond me. We want to go into the future well-equiped for changing times and challenges. You and your ilk want to go back to the past, and bring the name of Islam into disrepute, and make ordinary Muslims, especially the women/girls a laughing stock (or in worst case scenario -- murder victims) When was the last time you heard of a man being killed for an 'honour' crime? Exactly. Don't tell me men don't bring dishonour to their families! Time you started practicing Islam, and ceased being just an imitation Arab.
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2008-02-04 16:17:21
zayba:
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abu hadiya your post is hysterical realitys sister isnt attacking the sunnah unless you think forced marriage is sunnah it is true that such practices are perpetuated by illiterate people and they justify them by calling them Islamic didnt you see programme on last night about divorce in sharia? and mpac isnt hated myself my family all my friends love mpac because they defend Islam and Muslims you must be very ignorant if you think otherwise.
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2008-02-04 18:17:59
Sam:
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In line with Islamic ettiquette I will remain polite and not slander anyone. However, it is my duty to guide if sins have been corrected, that is my only objective, obedience to Allah SWT. Brother Abu Haadiya I have 2 issues to raise with you:
1) When Reality's Sister has posted something that I too found offensive, I do not think it v Islamic to respond to her in the manner you did. We must protect the Sunnah of the Prophet and separate the Muslim from Islam. Islam is perfect, its followers are prone to error and sin. However, let the sinless one be the first to criticise others, our beloved Prophet SAW would not have responded to her as you did, so I suggest brother you study the manners of the Prophet SAW yourself and embody his ways rather than just quote them. 2) Just because Reality's sister is posting on MPACUK's website, v unlikely she is a member. Are you brother given you are posting here and the countless people who do everyday Slander is a very grave sin in Islam and you are slandering the brothers and sisters in Islam as Anti-Islamic when I expect you don't even know any of them personally. Ours is not to judge brother. Your good deeds are passing to Reality's sister and MPACUK members by slandering and backbiting against them. The Prophet SAW hated such actions. Also on what basis are you classing MPACUK as one of the most hated groups about? Why are you on this site if you hate them so much. Dear brother, people will always disagree with each other in terms of how to defend the Ummah but at least they are doing something and Allah SWT is the only judge. On the day of Judgement brother how will you respond to Allah SWT when he asks how you helped your Ummah?
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2008-02-04 18:33:28
MAQ:
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"Abu Haadiya": Who are you to judge who the "real believers" are and who aren't? It doesn't seem to me at all that "Reality's Sister" was attacking Islamic practices or law. The point was that the people who perpetrate acts against Islam are the same "bearded elders" that quote those Islamic laws in the first place out of ignorance and some percieved notion of wisdom. You need to calm yourself down and not be so hasty in launching full scale attacks on people you happen not to agree with.
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2008-02-04 20:06:23
K Urban:
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The ''Thunderer'' is now not much better than a totalitarian state newspaper after Rupert 'Murderdock' bought it.
The last quality item made in this Country has been perverted. Just as well for it's owners that it's not covered by a money-back guarantee.
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2008-02-04 20:22:21
I Sidat:
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How can one call the Times a broadsheet, there's no difference between the times and the sun and news of the world, it's simple Rupert Murdoch's news organisations are anti islamic and that's prevelant in fact the man addmitted it himself.
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2008-02-05 03:35:32
wendy mann:
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interesting the concern for 10 asian females who are murdered in so called honour killings is so great that the media seems to forget that 110 women are murdered through domestic violence and crimes of passion in which asian culture or honour killings have no role at all.
should we blame christianity in these 110 cases?
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2008-02-05 13:57:09
Dr. Hanan:
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Great point Wendy Mann.We need more smart people like you. Anything negative that can possibly be linked with Islam immediately gets coverage and greater issues that cant smear this religion get swept under the rug.
Reality's sister: whilst I get your point I think you should have explained more carefully what you meant as to read them as they were it seems you are saying that the Sharia oppresses women..Most Muslims would know otherwise but to the non-Muslims it is very likely they will interpret it as being that if the elders shout Sharia everytime they want to oppress women then indeed the Sharia must contain elements which allow this oppression and support it...this is absolutely NOT true. There are hundreds of misconstrued opinions out there particularly with regard to the treatment of women in Islam etc and people that don't understand or deliberately want to perpetuate a bad reputation for our perfect religion will interpret some of the laws however they want...Even ignorant Muslim men will manipulate hadiths,sharia etc in order to 'control' women but of course those that are educated on their rights can defend them. I read a wonderful quote yesterday "The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance but the ILLUSION of knowledge". Hope everyone reflects on that. Furthermore, I found a great quote from the Prophet Mohammad SAW who said that and as I can't remember the exact quote the gist of it was that the most precious thing on this earth is a righteous woman. This goes to show the status of women. Also I think its unfair of you to say "illiterate women in jalbab/niqaab"...this makes a very dangerous connection..it insinuates that every/most women in jalbab/niqaab are illiterate and vice versa those that are illiterate are mainly those in jalbab/niqaab...that is almost a blasphemous statement and you should be careful...some of the smartest most educated women I know practice wearing jalbab/niqaab and its something ordained in Quraan in Surah Nur so they are better than educated you and I who dont have enough Taqwa to cover up so completely. Instead of educating others who already hold this notion, you are encouraging them to judge Muslim sister's who cover up and whose lives are already terribly difficult in doing so with regards to integration and being judged as being oppressed and ignorant. Also as I stated previously there is no such thing as a 'forced' marriage with regards to Islam. Although it may exist in practice due to ignorance, however, if its forced and the girl did not agree it is not a recognised or valid marriage :) Also in your second retaliatory post you mention that some men will think nothing of beating their wives daughters..in the name of Islam..whilst it is true that many men are abusive and violent this is not restricted to Muslims only...Oprah did a show on a man who abused and physically beat up his wife and called her shameful names and recorded it all and he was not a Muslim...there are horrendous statistics on men who get away with domestic violence and there are just as many if not more non-muslim men doing it. This is a very complex psycho-social issue...men who saw their mothers being beaten and are conditioned throughout life to believe that this is normal acceptable practice and carry it into adulthood and their later relationships, in addition, men who are uneducated, egotistical, insecure, jealous, psychopathic, endured troubled pasts etc...there are endless reasons for this and EVERY WOMAN READING THIS post should read up on her rights in Islam and in my next post I will delve into them as its a huge fundamental issue and they need to know how to educate their husbands in order to achieve marital harmony and take full advantage of their rights as per Islam. There may be some men who DISTORT and misinterpret Islam however there are so many hadiths etc to the contrary and ignorant selfish men who bring disrepute to our religion or try to make women believe they are inferior need to be set straight.
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2008-02-06 08:32:09
Dr. Hanan:
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Reality's Sister..also you made a final insinuation though not openly proclaiming it that I found to be quite offensive. It was the fact that Arabs oppress women. This is a sweeping statement that generalises a huge population of millions and is inaccurate to say the least not to mention bordering on slander. In 2008 and for the past decade, Arab women are becoming more free. More free than Western women and I'm sure freer than you and I too. This is not to say all of them of course. Its a very divided concept. There are some who are oppressed, some who are moderate and some who are completely free. You have to live in an Arab society to be able to truly appreciate what I'm getting at. Most societies face their own set of challenges but we should be careful to isolate cultural issues from religious ones even when others do not. Some Arab men treat their women with so much love, tenderness and respect that they can be taken as a model for all other societies to follow so you are mistaken in your belief :) That is not to say that oppression doesnt exist of course but its a world-wide issue...I know many Asian wives particularly a generation back who suffered constant physical and emotional abuse and the same goes for any other culture or region. Its not confined to any particular demographic. Having said that it seems in the newer generations that women are getting their own back and some are just plain wrong and hence now you also see widespread cases of what Shan was talking about. Its a battle of the sexes. In my next post I shall cover womens rights in Islam and its things that every woman should know and I'm sure there are new things that they don't as well and it should be a good read for men too and this should hopefully lay the whole men vs women in islam debate to rest and I hope it will enlighten non-Muslims reading it too :)
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2008-02-06 09:06:51
Dr. Hanan:
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WHAT EVERY MAN AND WOMAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT WOMEN'S RIGHTS IN ISLAM.
Before I begin don't forget that these were revealed at a time when burying female infants was prevalent and no other country or religion in the world gave women a status as great as Islam did and it is only recently in the West that women became more liberated and enjoy rights that were given to Muslim women over 1000 years ago. Traditional roles and responsibilities were divided between men and women according to the innate nature of the 2 sexes. First I shall outline proof for the mutual respect and value of humans in general (whether male or female). The Prophet (SAW) said: ‘A Muslim would neither abuse nor speak bad words to, nor curse others.’ (Sahih Muslim) He also stressed that men should treat women fairly and not use violence ‘Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should not harm his neighbors. And I command you to take good care of the women.’ (Bukhari) Even if women are wrong, tolerance and not violence is recommended, as a way to solve the problem. The Prophet (pbuh) said: ‘No believing man should hate a believing woman, if he hates one of her manners, he should be satisfied with another.’ This is commanded in the Qurán: "live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good" Surah 4 Verse 19. This clearly states to a husband that his wife may do something that displeases him but there may be a great lot of good in it, hence to sometimes let women have their way. the Prophet (pbuh) stressed to treat women well, saying: ‘The believers who have the best manners are those who have the most perfect faith. The best amongst you are the best towards their wives.’ (Tirmidhi) There cannot possibly be a more clear way to express how highly wives are regarded in Islam. The Prophet (pbuh) did not say the best amongst you are those that worship the most, or any of the other commands we are given and would expect that doing excessively would make us the best Muslims. No. He said the best amongst you are the best towards their wives which shows again the high regard Islam has for women and how men that abuse their wives can conversely be considered amongst the worst. To give an example he criticized men who do not take care of their womenfolk by saying: ‘Many women come to Muhammad's family members to complain about their husbands, those men are not the best amongst you.’ (Ibn Magah) This is a statement which condemns treating women badly. Now for the physical examples: 1) The husband should not share the money or assets that a Muslim woman possesses, either through inheritance or from her work. He doesn't have any claim on any part of it, which is opposite to many Western constitutions that give the husband a claim on his wife's wealth! Women have a right to work in Islam IF THEY CHOOSE and their husbands do not object (on reasonable grounds) and the work is in accordance to certain criteria that will not put her in danger of being sexually harrassed etc. However, if she feels she has enough work at home and with raising kids she has the RIGHT to remain at home and not work and her husband is not allowed to force her to work. 2)On the other hand, while husbands are not obliged to sustain their wives in western family laws, the Muslim wife is exempted from spending her income - however big it is - on the family unless she would like to help in a voluntary way. This is while the husband is asked to sustain her fully, regardless of her wealth. If he doesn't do it, it becomes a reason for her to get a divorce. 3) Inheritance: the brother inherits more than the sister. This is just because in Islam whatever the sister inherits it is for her PERSONAL use to spend as she wills, however the brother is responsible to sustain the female members of the family- mother, unmarried sisters, wife, daughters etc. therefore the matter comes balanced and is in fact advantageous to the woman.
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2008-02-06 09:36:21
Dr. Hanan:
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5) Marriage- a woman is allowed to refuse suitors presented to her and until she does not give consent of her own free will she cannot be co-erced to marry anybody else's choice of prospective husband. In Islam, a man has to give a woman a Dowry which is a wedding gift or either money, gold, or any other valuable posessions they agree upon and neither he nor anyone else is allowed to take this dowry, it is solely the woman's assets and even if they divorce it remains the property of the woman.
Muslim women are forbidden from marrying non-Muslim men in order to protect them (scientifically women are the weaker sex physically and more emotional than men also) and such a marriage could possibly lead to a woman being forced to partake in non-Islamic behaviour which would be detrimental to her spiritually and possibly culminate in divorce. A man on the other hand is allowed to marry a Christian or Jewish woman as he is generally considered the head of the household and Islam is tolerant of and orders respect towards other religions and guarantees the non-Muslim woman that she can practice her faith freely. However other religions cannot guarantee that for a Muslim woman and there are many things Muslims are required to do e.g. abstinence from intimate relations during fasting in Ramadan, that perhaps a non-Muslim male would not understand or be tolerant towards. However, Muslims are generally encouraged to marry other Muslims based on their common beliefs. A Muslim woman is also upon marriage not supposed to take on her husband's surname unless this is HER personal wish, she may continue with her maiden surname as a mark of her identity as an individual. 6) Polygamy- This is a huge discussion topic and is used a lot by non-Muslims who don't understand its origin. The ideal of a Muslim family is a monogamous marriage. Polygamy existed long before Islam came into existence and was practised previously by many other religions but Islam was the first religion to RESTRICT the number of wives allowed (as opposed to the previous practice of taking as many wives as one desired) as well as setting down conditions for it which include treating every wife equally and justly and is in practice extremely difficult to achieve. Polygamy abolished the practice of taking concubines and mistresses. In addition, previously men used to take part in battles whereas women were not supposed to fight and many men died leaving the ratio of women to men far greater so in order to support them financially and fulfil their needs, it made sense for a man to take more than one wife. However, these days its not really necessary (in my opinion!) but this is a huge subject with so many conditions and things mentioned in it. Polygamy is not encouraged it is simply permissible. 7) Divorce- whilst allowed it is the most hated thing in Islam to illustrate the sanctity of marriage. However if a woman is unhappy in her marriage she has the right to get a divorce. In the West, there are many legal complications resulting from gaps in the civil and church law. 8) Maternity- Islam recognises a woman's right to spare a certain stage of her life to rest and take care of herself whilst pregnant and around the post-partum period and hence in almost all if not all Muslim countries, women are granted long paid maternity leaves. The Prophet (SAW) said that "Women are the twin halves of men" which shows their equality and neither one is superior over the other only more suited and excelling in different roles. Other religions before the advent of Islam regarded women as being possessed of inherent sin and wickedness whereas Islam introduced that men and women were created from one soul. I found the quote that I couldn't in the previous post the Prophet (SAW) said: ‘The world and all things in the world are precious, but the most precious thing in the world is a virtuous woman.’ In his final and farewell sermon he again mentioned women: ‘Fear God regarding women. Verily you have married them with the trust of God.."
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2008-02-06 10:50:58
Dr. Hanan:
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(there is so much more evidence etc however it is beyond the scope of my posts here so I'm going to have to end it but hope it has proved useful to everyone who reads it)
The shari'a (Islamic Law) regards women as the spiritual and intellectual equals of men. The main distinction it makes between them is in the physical realm based on the equitable principle of fair division of labor. It allots the more strenuous work to man and makes him responsible for the maintenance of the family. It allots the work of managing the home and the upbringing and training of children to woman – a mission, which has the greatest importance in the task of building a healthy and prosperous society. It is a fact, however, that sound administration within the domestic field is impossible without a unified policy. For this reason shari'a requires man, as head of the family, to consult with his family and then to have the final say in decisions concerning it. In doing so, he must not abuse his prerogative to cause any injury to his wife. Any transgression of this principle involves for him the risk of losing the favor of God. That is because his wife is not his subordinate but she is, the queen of her house, and this is the position a true believer is expected to give his wife. This is the true Islam and its a shame that not everyone knows and follows it. Any deviation thereof is the invention of man and not associated in any way with our religion. I don't find anything in these examples or indeed Islamic literature in general to give men the right to treat women badly. It just depends on the man himself and how much he earnestly practices his religion and whether he is good or not. Islam does not give any other way. Similarly women are instructed to take care of their husbands too but in different duties. A marriage is a partnership based on mutual respect, love, beliefs, tolerance, compromise, patience and dreams. It can either be a beautiful fulfilling, rewarding experience or a miserable, terrifying brutal ordeal. This all depends on many factors: the 2 people involved, the families, the social network, the extent to which religion is practiced, their pasts and childhood and own domestic experiences and much more besides. As far as Islam is concerned though, it has laid out a great framework for a happy lasting marriage. I think the pressure from other societies and what is seen as the ideal to live by and women going to the opposite extreme concerning their rights also doesnt help but only serves to compound the problem. E.g. some Muslim women may look at her non-Muslim female colleague enjoying unlimited freedoms and may feel she is deprived, however when the consequences of such freedoms are studied carefully it would most likely not be as attractive anymore. With rights come responsibilities. When 16 yr old Jamie-Lynn Spears announces that shes pregnant by her boyfriend and society accepts such behaviour as we hear of it constantly, we are headed for serious moral disintegration and I am NOT attacking any religion for this AT ALL, my point, quite simply is that we need to re-evaluate our freedoms and revert back to a sound social structure which actually works harmoniously rather than plough forward with self-destruction and pressuring people to conform to democracy and pushing for lawless, orderless societies in which crime is prevalent amongst countless other things. On a final note to all the women of the world whilst its wonderful to educate yourself and I believe every woman should in order to maintain her independence even within her marriage, don't allow society to make you feel that without a career you are a backward, illiterate, housewife/mother. Being a mother is such an honourable and important job and you have so much power and control over how your kids and hence the future generations will become. There is just as much prestige in being a mother as there is in being a graduate. Without mothers, life would stop and mankind would cease to exist. Everything great starts from home!
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2008-02-06 11:17:12
Reality's Sister:
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Dear Dr.Hanan
Its good that you've made such an effort to expalin some aspect of the Sharia. However your view appears to be somewhat idealised. You also accept that some (if not many) of the practices carried out in the name of Sharia, or Islam, are just customs invented by, and imposed by men to keep the women subservient. You cannot, on the one hand quote Hadith, and say that men and women are equal, and on the other hand that women are 'weaker', or that the husband is the head of the household. Do remember that it was Khadijah who was the boss, and employer. As for women being physically weaker: only cowardly men beat women. And that's part of the problem. Most Muslim men are simply cowards, when faced with the threat from a white/European/African man. In the house they push their women around and beat them. Outside they run like rabbits. They oppress the Muslim women by making them feel like whores if they don't wear hijaabs/jilbaabs, or if they so much as even look at another man. In the meantime they themselves, scartch their privates and leer at scantily-clad women in the streets of Britain/Europe/US etc. How shameless they! How cowardly! How illiterate! And you know what? They even make their 4 and 5 year old daughters wear the hijaab. That makes these men not only buffoons, but also sick in the head. No Sharia court/council should be recognised unless at least half the judges/members are women. It is time for Muslim women to start educating first themselves and then their men. We are Muslims; not imitation Arabs.
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2008-02-06 15:00:27
Dr. Hanan:
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Dear Reality's Sister,
The only reason my view appears idealised is because it is. It is ideal according to the Hadith and Sunnah. If it was practised correctly, it WOULD work better than any other system in place today. It only seems unreal/idealised because it is not practised uniformly. Yes of course I am aware that some men distort/misinterpret/misquote Sharia in order to control women but the point of all of my posts was to show that Sharia in fact itself shows no such thing. Next, it seems you misunderstood something. Women are SCIENTIFICALLY the weaker sex. On the whole the female population's skeleton is a lot lighter, smaller than the man's. Whilst the man naturally has more muscle mass, is supposed to weigh more etc, the woman has more fat reserves to give her her characteristic feminine figure and her hormones play a role in this. The woman is typically shorter than the man (and yes I know there ARE exceptions). In addition, the way a woman's hormones function, it affects her mood, judgements etc..She is more emotionally labile, fragile, sentimental etc than a man. She is likely to express sorrow, grief etc more easily than a man. Any woman with PMS can tell you how it changes her mood. This is a medical fact and whether you accept it or not it will remain so. Based on this and hence the way in which women were created and the nature they were assigned, they are the weaker sex in the sense that they deserve to be protected by men. Whilst this may be seen as a traditional view it is expressed by scholars throughout and believe me I'm very feministic but even I cannot refute that. The Qurán therefore has assigned roles to each sex to complement each other, that when combined, work in harmony to create an ideal. Therefore the man is constantly asked to take care of the woman and the woman (being the more attractive sex) is supposed to take measures that ultimate ensure her safety and protect her reputation in society. This is also applicable to men in most instances, e.g. a man is not allowed to shake a womans hand as is vice versa and both the man and woman are forbidden of having sexual relations outside of marriage etc. Also I said men and women are EQUAL not the SAME. There is a difference...equality refers to rights..there is a balance of rights according to the nature of each...the SAME would mean every single thing the man is allowed to do the woman is too...that would overburden many women. The husband IS the head of the household and the decision maker but that does not give him the right to abuse that privilege...the FINAL decision can be taken by him but by consulting his wife first and reaching an agreeable compromise and in accordance with having respected the woman's rights Islamically. Yes Khadijah was an employer and I did not at any point state that a woman cannot reach great heights career-wise, if you have the ability to own a company, run your own business, be a consultant..why not?? But this has no relation to who is the head of the household! Whilst men are in this position though they have the financial burden of providing for their wife kids and home and with living expenses on the rise, this is not an easy task, its a burden on most men. Women don't HAVE to work if they don't want to. There are pros and cons dont just look at it from one way. I do not condone beating a woman AT ALL there is NO justification for resorting to violence and if you read my above posts properly you will see how even Islam does not approve of mistreating women i.e. beating them and yes those men are cowards and AGAIN its not just Muslim men there are far more non-Muslim men beating their wives too and if you do a little research you will find out...this is a MALE issue not an Islamic one. As for your next statements, I will not condemn them on account of it being obvious you have obviously been through some really traumatic experiences and I can relate to that however there are some things I have to say to you. Do not denigrate 'most' Muslim men by stating such things.
(21)
2008-02-07 06:55:15
Dr. Hanan:
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Dear Reality's Sister..
You sound really bitter and that's why I assume you are basing your statements on personal bad experiences. Going back to your statement of Muslim men being cowards, you are not doing justice to a whole nation of Palestinian men and boys as young as 4 yrs who strive to protect their homes, neighbours, families and women by braving tanks and soldiers armed with rifles and guns, armed with nothing but rocks and stones. That is not an act of cowardice and if you have ever heard how terrifying gunfire sounds in real life you will come to realise just how strong these men/boys truly are. Moving away from them, there are plenty of other men I know who treat their wives with so much love and adore them and strive to make them happy and I also know their wives are really hard working in their domestic duties and fulfil their obligations to their husbands and they have really happy marriages. Aside from this, I also have heard of many men who do abuse their women in the Arab as well as the Asian (Indian and Pakistani) plus African communities. To wear hijaab or jalbaab is NOT oppression. It is something you should discuss with your husband before marriage and if he is free-minded enough to not care then fine but to wear hijaab and to practise it correctly (hijaab is a way of life not just a scarf to cover your hair btw), it is an act of protecting one's modesty as well as obedience towards Allah and the instructions in the Qur'an specifically Surah Nur. It shows that you value your body and are not on open display for any man to leer at as per his wish. Yes you will argue why should men leer even if he sees a half-naked woman parading around in front of him but then this is not just confined to Muslim men it is a universal MALE thing. In fact if a man practices his Islam well, he would not gawp at scantily-clad women on account of it being wrong. That is why unmarried men and women of advancing age are advised to fast in order to protect themselves from many sins including forbidden sexual thoughts and actions. On a completely different note though and away from Islam, if a woman does not respect her own body and considers herself cheap enough to expose her breasts, thighs, abdomen etc then why does she feel she has a right to demand so much respect from a man to the extent that he shouldn't even look at her?? (I'm NOT one of those people that think such women deserve to be raped btw!!) Surely most women who dress 'sexily' do it to attract the opposite sex and give themselves an ego boost? If I saw a woman in a skimpy outfit I would look at her too. To not look at all, would be to accept and tolerate it as the norm and for men to do so would mean that we expect they have become desensitised and exposed to it so much that it not only doesnt turn them on but they just dont care. I dont think this can ever happen based on what science knows about the male libido and testosterone levels. They are very easily aroused (a biological issue as well as psychological one) and for that we cannot blame them (hence the reason women do hijab and not men) but yes they should control how far they take that. Also, if you still feel like you are oppressed because you are FORCED to wear the hijaab then dont do it because you will not benefit from it, its pointless for you and will only make you more bitter and venomous towards Islam. You should only do hijaab when you understand it fully, are enlightened completely, are ready to follow Islam in whole as much as you can and you WANT to because then you will not see it as an oppressive thing rather it will liberate you and I don't expect you to understand it now. You are wrong to assume that most women are forced and I hate to hear that from a few Muslim women because you help to perpetuate a mistaken notion to non-Muslims who assume that anyway. I'm certain that MOST women do it out of choice. Referring back to men leering at scantily-clad women..again if this happens and yes it does then the man is weak of faith.
(22)
2008-02-07 07:29:40
Dr. Hanan:
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However, a woman, so long as shes between mahrams or in her home with her husband is allowed to wear whatever she pleases, the only barrier being her own modesty (there are many things I wouldn't wear in front of my brother!) but when I'm alone or with my husband which is most of the time anyway, I will wear literally whatever I am in the mood for no matter how skimpy. I love it when my husband grooms himself and wears perfume and is presentable as it reminds me how attractive he is (though I wouldnt love him any less if he didn't) and I like to dress up for him and for myself too. I think its nice for a husband to see his wife in attractive/seductive clothes to remind him that shes just as physically beautiful as the women that hes exposed to daily that don't cover up. Most men who know the true purpose of hijab respect their wives for practising it and consider them to be more precious and beautiful. I'm only 24 and when I'm in the mood to make an effort, in my home, I will do my hair,make up, add some scent, jewellery, a belt and feel totally glam as it makes me feel good about myself and despite me knowing I am loved unconditionally as it should be, its still nice to be appreciated for external beauty. It doesnt matter to me that nobody sees it except my female friends or my husband as in all honesty I do not want random guys harrassing me or even looking when I go out. I command respect for my body by covering up when I'm out and let others wonder what lies beneath if they want. Only I choose what to expose to the only man that I chose to share myself with. I'm not a cheap commodity to give unlimited access to everyone that wants it. Having said that, I do not judge others by what they wear (frankly, I don't care, religion is a personal issue and every man will be asked to account for HIS deeds not anyone else's). Plus, I only discovered shortly before marriage how important intimate relations between a man and wife are. I was shocked to learn that they constitute one of the greatest factors in divorce. A healthy physical relationship between 2 people where both are mutually satisfied can make for a lasting happy marriage. The lack of one can lead to straying, infidelity, adultery etc and this is true of all marital relationships not just Islamic ones. This is a fact not my opinion or observation. Providing that a man is good and finds his wife attractive and she satisfies him emotionally and physically he would most likely disregard all other women irrespective of external beauty. The opposite is also true, women need to be satisfied in order to not cheat her husband or have an emotional affair with another man. Again, social issue. You are referring to the hypocrites who tell their women to cover yet make no secret of finding uncovered women attractive. Like I said if a man is satisfied, unless he is just a love rat, he would not resort to such behaviour. I read an interesting article lately that suggested that men who have unhealthily close relationships to their mothers are more likely to have affairs.
To make a 5 yr old wear hijaab is pointless in my opinion but to educate children from a young age so a girl will automatically take that decision upon reaching puberty for herself is a better idea. Yes women should educate themselves so they can counter-argue their rights if a man misrepresents something to her in the name of religion. With respect to the head of the house issue, let me clarify something here. Its ok if 2 ppl understand each other so much and share much in common if both of them make the decisions however even they would at some point face some issue they can't agree upon or compromise their way out of..so who should get the final say?? Thats a tough one but I think in most homes its the guy. Also I mentioned a woman's duties to do the housework but I'm not being sexist & I don't see anything wrong if as a gesture of goodwill the man offers to help out too-it jst shows what a nice guy he is and makes him appreciate what his wife does for him daily.
(23)
2008-02-07 08:49:47
Dr. Hanan:
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@ Reality's Sister: I am not aware of the restrictions if any of a Sharia court comprising women so do not feel qualified to comment but will say instead you are entitled to your opinion I suppose.
I am now however extremely offended by your last statement which you reiterated despite knowing how offensive it is. You are making a sweeping generalisation which I don't think you have the right to do as your comment is slanderous to a whole race of people many of whom do not fall into the category of being oppressive. As I told you before, unless you live in an Arab society (as I do) you cannot begin to comprehend the freedoms many of these women enjoy. I do not deny some are oppressed by uneducated backward thinking men but this stands true to ANY culture. So please stop with the imitation Arabs business unless you're referring to those in the Jahiliyyah period before the existence of Islam. I know even more Asians that are much worse oppressors of women but that doesnt make all Asians bad as I have seen some, particularly the newer generations who are so tender and loving too.
(24)
2008-02-07 09:10:17
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A GIRL of 15 was tricked into a "telephone marriage" ceremony to a Sheffield man with a mental age of five in a ceremony recognised by sharia (Islamic law).
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