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Israel doesn't want UN to adopt Annapolis decisions

Friday, 30 November 2007

Israel doesn't want UN to adopt Annapolis decisions
By Shlomo Shamir, Haaretz Correspondent and The Associated Press

In a sudden about face, the United States on Friday withdrew a United Nations resolution endorsing this week's agreement by Israeli and Palestinian leaders to try to reach a Mideast peace settlement by the end of 2008, apparently after Israel objected.

Israel expressed opposition to the American initiative to pursue Security Council support for the proposed resolution because it does not consider most of the member states of the council to be friendly toward Israel.

U.S. deputy ambassador Alejandro Wolff informed the Security Council that the United States was pulling the resolution from consideration less than 24 hours after U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad introduced it and welcomed the very positive response from council members.

UN sources said that Israel expressed dissatisfaction over the fact that Zalmay Khalilzad, the U.S. ambassador to the UN, did not give it advance notice of its intentions to pursue UN adoption of decisions made at the Middle East peace conference held in Annapolis, Maryland earlier this week.

"It's not the proper venue," Israel's deputy ambassador Daniel Carmon told reporters after Friday's council meeting. "We feel that the appreciation of Annapolis has other means of being expressed than in a resolution."

"We were not the only ones to object, Carmon added," saying the Americans had told the Israelis that the Palestinians also objected. UN sources also said that the Palestinian Authority said it wasn't interested in a resolution.

Although Israel apparently had no problems with the uncontroversial text, analysts suggested it was worried a formal resolution would get the United Nations too involved in Middle East peace efforts. Israel and the United States often complain of bias in the world body against Israel.

However, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas told reporters in the Tunisian capital, Tunis, on Friday, that while he didn't know the details of the draft resolution, it was a sign of the seriousness of the United States, which he also perceived at this week's U.S.-sponsored conference in Annapolis.

"This means, if what we have learned is verified, that there are serious steps that speak to the existence of an American position supporting the negotiations," Abbas said.

Wolff told reporters the U.S. had held intensive consultations over the past few days and the upshot was that there were some unease with the idea of a resolution.

"The focus, we all realized again, should be placed and remain on Annapolis and the understanding that was reached there," Wolff said.

"It's a momentous decision... and rather than dilute from that and in respect to both parties in terms of what they thought would be most helpful, we reached a conclusion that it would be best to withdraw it," Wolff added.

Word of the opposition to the resolution came after Khalilzad told reporters after closed-door discussions Thursday on the draft resolution that there was enormous support for the decisions taken by Olmert and Abbas at the peace conference.

"Everyone that spoke was very positive," he said. "Everyone recognizes that we collectively and individually have to do what we can to be supportive, sustain the momentum and help the parties as they make the difficult decisions that they have to make."

Khalilzad had said he would consult with the Israelis and Palestinians overnight on the text of the resolution to ensure that it's what they want.

Indonesia's UN Ambassador Marty Natalegawa, the current council president, had expressed hope that the resolution would be adopted on Friday, after the council's monthly Mideast briefing.

"From the presidency perspective, we see there is a good potential for a common, positive response to Annapolis which we wish to nurture and capture as early as possible so that positive momentum is maintained," he said, before the resolution was withdrawn.

The Annapolis conference drew 44 nations, including Israel's neighboring Arab states whose support is considered vital to any peace agreement. A joint understanding between the Israelis and Palestinians, in doubt until the last minute, was salvaged and Abbas and Olmert reiterated their desire to reach a peace settlement by the end of next year.

Qatar's UN Ambassador Nassir Al-Nasser, the only Arab member of the Security Council, told reporters "we are happy with the language as it is in the U.S. draft resolution."

"I am happy that the council is dealing with this issue," he said. "For me, this is the main thing."

The draft resolution affirmed the Security Council's vision of a region where two states, Israel and Palestine, live side by side within secure and recognized borders.

It welcomed the diplomatic efforts at the Annapolis conference to realize this vision as a concrete step towards a comprehensive Middle East peace, and also endorsed the program of action for negotiations and implementation of outstanding obligations pursuant to the road map peace plan agreed upon by the Israeli and Palestinian leadership at Annapolis, Maryland on Nov. 27, 2007.

http://www.haaretz.com

Readers have left 50 comments.

I Sidat: Quote

This is the precise reason what am talking about the lies and deceit from Israel, they don't want Palestine to be free, they want everything as once shown by Sharon, these thugs want every thing becasue Eretz Israel says so, i bet that if there was a war in the middle east at the end of it syria, lebanon and many other places would become Eretz Israel. Why becasue it's thier land hey you guys left not the palestinians you left with your free will no one pushed you out, Palestinians were pushed out where is there justice?

Incredible as i predicted nothing would happen and its true, it really is 'goodnight vienna' for palestine, may our brothers and sisters of all faiths living in hardship today live in strength and secure.

(1) 2007-12-01 01:41:59

Annapolis Myths: Quote

All the Muslim losers who have gone to Annapolis to please Israel and its vassal state the USA should know that in return for pleasing Israel and its allies Muslims will get nothing but humiliation.

Now that the sacrifices of our brothers and sisters in Gaza and Lebanon have defeated Israel, America is forcing a recognition of Israel on countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan in a desperate attempt to save Israel. By his own admission, Olmert has said that Israel will be destroyed if Annapolis is not fails. This speaks volumes of the failure and defeat that is staring Israel in the face at the hands of the Muslim world. But alas ! America's puppets who rule over the Muslim world want to snatch loss from the jaws of victory . Our traitorous leaders cannot see that victors do not negotiate --only losers like Israel do .

By collecting all of the Muslim world's CIA appointed tin-pot tyrants and puppets and asking them to pledge their allegiance to Israel's existence, America will achieve nothing---simply because these American moles who rule the Muslim world do not represent Muslims.
This is not just true for Mahmoud Abbass , the fake President of Palestine and his erstwhile companion Israeli agent Tony Blair, both of whom have been given the task of annexing as much land, water and oil for greater Israel as possible before Hamas defeats and deposes Abbass. It is also true of the lying and thieving house of Saud.

If America does not have the decency to talk to Hamas and Hezbollah in Palestine just as it does not directly negotiate with the Islamic State of Iraq then Israel will be wiped off the map very soon. God-willin.

(2) 2007-12-01 02:26:23

RSD: Quote

I Sidat: From my reading of this article neither Israel nor Palestine wanted a UN resolution for whatever reasons each have.
It appears that Palestine, Israel and the Arab League are happy with the content of whatever agreement has come out of Annapolis. Thus I fail to divine quite how you arrived at your conclusion.
In asking for justice it must be for all. Where is there any offer of justice for the Samaritans whom are by rights Palestinians? They had lived around Nablus since the end of the Babylonian Exile, before Christianity and Islam. But because they were not Christians or Muslims they were ethnically cleansed out of their homes, and their property seized. Where is there the justice for the Jews asset stripped and expelled from their ancient homes across the Middle East? Their crime was to be Jews, not Zionists. Yes, there is a desperate case for everyone to have justice, but in the meantime it would be better just to stop the killing and oppression, especially the killing & oppression of people by their own side.

(3) 2007-12-01 03:05:01

MelanieP: Quote

— Annapolis Myths

If ever Private Eye wanted to write a spoof article about the Middle East I hope they take you'rs and pay you the 50p its worth.

If you want to use hyperbole without rationality then I feel I can suggest that the already crushed, discredited Plaetsinian terrorists are lucky to be granted parity of negotiation with the victim of their terrorist attacks, Israel.

You cannot ask for Israel to be destroyed and then say "God-willing" because, clearly, that is a statement of apostacy by going against the fact that Allah granted the Land of Israel to the Jewish People. It is clear from the inability of Arabs to defeat Israel that they owe their protection to Allah (as their creator) and that the Arabs owe their defeats and humiliation to Allah who defends what He has created. Perhaps Israel is Allah's punishement to Muslims for straying from the path of Peace and Beauty.

(4) 2007-12-01 11:07:35

I Sidat: Quote

— RSD

What are you talking about? Abbas agreed to whatever decision was made he never has rejected anything am not just talking about this article am talking about various other ones. And as for the ridiculous assumption i'll have you know that there were jews in palestine prior to the ones that decided to come back there was no ethnic cleanising that's a lie, yes when Israel was born there was ethnic cleanisng that's evident

Mel how stupid are you on a scale of one to ten stop telling muslims what the quran says we know what is says all your using is one line wherre's the rest of the explanation use some common sense, and Palestinians are not terrorists, in fact many people believe Israel is a terrorist state

(5) 2007-12-01 13:14:23

Mashfiq: Quote

MelanieP,

I certainly accept that analysis that the Annapolis conference provided some form of timetable to move forward. However, I understand Israel continues to have its concerns, particularly when it is a nation in a region swamped by other hostile nations. I take this into full consideration.

The vision for the future is clear. The conference reaffirmed its aim to continue to promote dialogue and negotiation between the Palestinians and the Israelis, and I hope that there will be a final two-state solution based on the road map. The priority now is, as the Conservative's William Hague put it, "obviously, to build on what momentum has been created and to address some formidable obstacles that remain."

As a British Bangladeshi from the Muslim faith, I want to see my country establish full diplomatic relations with Israel. I believe, and have always believed, by establishing diplomatic relations, it will benefit Bangladesh socially, economically and politically. It will also strengthen our nation in the region.

As one pro-Israeli commentator put it, "Of all the nations that were carved out of the former British colony in South Asia, Bangladesh has become the most successful in accommodating a diverse population." Bangladesh is today home to Christians, Hindus and Muslims, something Pakistan would never accept. We are a democratic and secular state. We support all our citizens. I accept that Bangladesh should work closely with India, rather than Pakistan. We must never forget what the Pakistanis did to us, committing one of the worst genocides in human history. I will never forgive them. Muslim brother or no Muslim brother. They killed millions of my country men and raped thousands of innocent women. That is unforgivable.

Bangladesh, as Israel is to its region, a unique example of a nation that allows its people freedom of religion, even while having its own state religion. Yes, Bangladeshis do have a great deal to teach the peoples in the Middle East.

Why should the world assume that only a superpower like the United States, or a European country like Norway, should offer itself as a broker for peace? Bangladesh is really a more logical vehicle to bring together Israelis and Arabs. On the one hand, they share a Muslim heritage with Arabs. On the other, you share Israel's religious diversity. (Do you know, Israel has approximately the same percentage of Jews as Bangladesh has Muslims?) They share the Arab world's past subservience to western powers; but Bangladesh's democratic government is much closer to Israeli democracy than Arab autocracy.

It would be very difficult for Bangladesh to play such a role in this conflict while it does not formally recognize the sovereignty of one of the parties. It would be difficult to broach such an issue when there is no Bangladeshi diplomatic corps in Israel to contact its Israeli counterparts.

Imagine for a moment what would happen if Bangladesh established diplomatic relations with Israel, then announced its intentions to hold a peace conference for the parties in the Middle East? Although it would not be the first Muslim nation to recognize Israel. For they would be denying the pernicious belief, which holds that a sovereign Jewish state can exist in the Middle East only at the expense of Muslims. Consign that lie to the ashbin of history where it belongs. Declare to the world that Jews and Muslims can live side by side as equals, and the world can know peace. Your bold action would demonstrate to the world a level of courage and maturity that too few nations possess. And it would place Bangladesh on the center stage of world events.

Peace is possible in the Middle East, but it will take a special kind of wisdom and courage. Bangladeshi courage.

(6) 2007-12-01 14:13:43

MelanieP: Quote

In all this discussion about Annapolis and Peace there is an assumption that Israel has to do everything and the Palestinians get everything they ask for.

The reality is that neither Israel or the Palestinians will get 100% of what they want and that Israel and Palestinians have to make concessions.

There will be some things the Palestinians want that they will never get. There is one thing the Palestinians have to do - or no deal. That is immediate cessation of violence and incitement, and recognition of Israel as the Jewish Nation. That is no different to recognising that China is the Chinese Nation. It has NOTHING to do with Religion.

(7) 2007-12-01 14:57:28

I Sidat: Quote

MelanieP,
As one pro-Israeli commentator put it, "Of all the nations that were carved out of the former British colony in South Asia, Bangladesh has become the most successful in accommodating a diverse population." Bangladesh is today home to Christians, Hindus and Muslims, something Pakistan would never accept. We are a democratic and secular state. We support all our citizens. I accept that Bangladesh should work closely with India, rather than Pakistan. We must never forget what the Pakistanis did to us, committing one of the worst genocides in human history. I will never forgive them. Muslim brother or no Muslim brother. They killed millions of my country men and raped thousands of innocent women. That is unforgivable.

— Mashfiq

What genocide are you talking about, Pakistan offered THE then east pakistan with a viable solution which bangladesh rejected, that's why they decided to annex you and THEN steal from India.

As an Indian muslim i must say that India should have never partitioned, Pakistan like bangladesh decided to make a run when the going got tough instead fighting for thier rights like the indian muslims, so there's no difference between yous including israel, you lot ran away then you want to blame others and want more or steal.

As far as am concerned with this issue its to do with race not religion israeli's despise palestinians and arabs that's why they will never agree to a two part solution

(8) 2007-12-01 16:43:17

europamedical: Quote

Henry Siegman in August wrote the following in an article worth reading :

The Middle East peace process may well be the most spectacular deception in modern diplomatic history. Since the failed Camp David summit of 2000, and actually well before it, Israel’s interest in a peace process – other than for the purpose of obtaining Palestinian and international acceptance of the status quo – has been a fiction that has served primarily to provide cover for its systematic confiscation of Palestinian land and an occupation whose goal, according to the former IDF chief of staff Moshe Ya’alon, is ‘to sear deep into the consciousness of Palestinians that they are a defeated people’. In his reluctant embrace of the Oslo Accords, and his distaste for the settlers, Yitzhak Rabin may have been the exception to this, but even he did not entertain a return of Palestinian territory beyond the so-called Allon Plan, which allowed Israel to retain the Jordan Valley and other parts of the West Bank.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/sieg01_.html

(9) 2007-12-01 17:35:24

Mashfiq: Quote

What genocide are you talking about, Pakistan offered THE then east pakistan with a viable solution which bangladesh rejected, that's why they decided to annex you and THEN steal from India.

As an Indian muslim i must say that India should have never partitioned, Pakistan like bangladesh decided to make a run when the going got tough instead fighting for thier rights like the indian muslims, so there's no difference between yous including israel, you lot ran away then you want to blame others and want more or steal. As far as am concerned with this issue its to do with race not religion israeli's despise palestinians and arabs that's why they will never agree to a two part solution

— I Sidat

I very much doubt you are Indian. If you are Indian, then you are probably one of those anti-Indian self haters, particularly when India was a friend of Bangladesh since its inception not Pakistan.

As you are probably lacking academically and have little understanding of Bangladeshi history, you will find that in 1971 Pakistan launched into a mass killing of Bangladeshi people by the Pakistani army and their collaborators during the war of liberation in 1971. No definite survey has yet been made to ascertain the exact number of people killed by the Pakistan army. Immediately after the War of Liberation, it was estimated to be as high as three million. The genocide committed by the Pakistan army is one of the worst holocausts in world history. So please do not try and undermine the hurt of Bengalis, just like you would not undermine the hurt of Jews in the Holocaust. Or would you? Pakistan's central target were Hindus, minorities in Bangladesh, innocent women, who were raped in thousands and were forced to give birth to war babies. And the thousand killed for defending their mother tongue. India actually helped Bangladesh gain independence. So please verify your facts.

I hope the Bangladeshi government wipes all the militant terrorist out of our country, as Israel is trying to do in its country. We should not work with Pakistan, but work with India. We do not benefit from Pakistan, we beenfit from India. And we would benefit from Israel too. An Islamic fanatic would say what you stated above.

(10) 2007-12-02 13:14:54

MelanieP: Quote

— europamedical

And here is why he's wrong!

The Roadmap to Peace states that the FIRST act of either party is for the Palestinians to "immediately and un-conditionally renounce terrorism and incitement". Had the Palestinians done this then The Roadmap would be underway. Well they didn't do it and so The Roadmap never progressed. The people who DON'T want peace are The Palestinians because the Islamic core in Fatah and Hamas want Israel to become Islamic Lands. That is why Abbas cannot agree that Israel is a "Jewish State".

Its one-sided when one side demands that a land become "Islamic" and taken by force when the people already living in the State that the land encompasses merely ask for recognition.

(11) 2007-12-02 14:34:41

I Sidat: Quote

[quote=Mashfiq

I very much doubt you are Indian.

The genocide committed by the Pakistan army is one of the worst holocausts in world history. So please do not try and undermine the hurt of Bengalis, just like you would not undermine the hurt of Jews in the Holocaust.

And we would benefit from Israel too. An Islamic fanatic would say what you stated above.
[/quote]

Firstly don't accuse me of denying the holocaust or delibrately stating i am hurting the jews by using the holocasut. I recgonise that incident also acknowledge humanity which is beyond your senses

Secondly what ACADEMIC proof do you have that Pakistan had created genocide?

And am not a fanatic am only saying the truth which is exposing your lies, e.g. pakistan engaging themselves in ethnic cleanisng which is abhorrent becasue there are hindus, sikh' and many other religions in that country unlike Israel who only have people of the Jewsih faith from Europe and the rich and middle class, get your facts right before accusing me with stupidity

And yes i am an Indian and very proud

(12) 2007-12-02 19:41:03

Mashfiq: Quote

Firstly don't accuse me of denying the holocaust or delibrately stating i am hurting the jews by using the holocasut. I recgonise that incident also acknowledge humanity which is beyond your senses

Secondly what ACADEMIC proof do you have that Pakistan had created genocide?

And am not a fanatic am only saying the truth which is exposing your lies, e.g. pakistan engaging themselves in ethnic cleanisng which is abhorrent becasue there are hindus, sikh' and many other religions in that country unlike Israel who only have people of the Jewsih faith from Europe and the rich and middle class, get your facts right before accusing me with stupidity

And yes i am an Indian and very proud[/quote]

Firstly, you are probably one of those extremist who claims you recognise the holocaust, but unlike some people, would never attend Holocaust Memorial Day. You are all talk and no action.

In regards to academic evidence, maybe you should go and do some research, and clearly if you are too incompetent to achieve that goal, go and speak to an academic expert in the field. Maybe he or she would enlighten you.

My lies? hahahaha The only lies emanate from extremist like you, oh please don't blow me up now. And leave Taslima Nasreen alone. She is only an author, you sick extremist are not representative of moderate Muslims, you represent an extremist section of society.

(13) 2007-12-02 22:58:35

Paul M: Quote

Mashfiq - the massacres of Bengalis by Pakistanis is an established fact. The numbers ran into the hundreds of thousands. You don't need to argue with I Sadat. These were real massacres, not fake one like Jenin.

I Sadat - Israel is 20% Arab (of which over 75% are Muslim). They have a free Arabic press, they sit in the Parliament (both in their own parties and in the mainstream ones), they have served in prominent roles in the army and diplomatic core. I would not claim that there is no discrimination at all in Israel but to say that there are only Jews in Israel is just ignorance.

As for the Jews in Israel being European Jews, are you not aware that around half of Israeli Jews originate from Iraq, Morocco, Yemen etc?

(14) 2007-12-03 11:58:37

MPACUK Mod: Quote

Shem and Mashfiq your last two posts were off topic- Play nice.

(15) 2007-12-03 14:01:46

Mashfiq: Quote

Paul M:

Thank you for clarifying my point. It is certainly an established fact, but anyone who hates India and loves Pakistan would always deny this fact.

One Muslim Pakistani I was recently debating decided to gloss over it by saying "we help Bangladesh now", so you must forget what happen before. This is how demented some people are. Then Israel is helping Palestinians now, so they must forget everything Israel has done to them in the past. Let us play that game then LOL.

(16) 2007-12-03 14:05:40

I Sidat: Quote

Firstly, you are probably one of those extremist who claims you recognise the holocaust, but unlike some people, would never attend Holocaust Memorial Day. You are all talk and no action.

In regards to academic evidence, maybe you should go and do some research, and clearly if you are too incompetent to achieve that goal, go and speak to an academic expert in the field. Maybe he or she would enlighten you.

My lies? hahahaha The only lies emanate from extremist like you, oh please don't blow me up now. And leave Taslima Nasreen alone. She is only an author, you sick extremist are not representative of moderate Muslims, you represent an extremist section of society.

— Mashfiq

Ok stop using quotes and phrases, no am not extremist, your saying that becasue i am saying the truth, Why don't you just give me your evidence and i'll tell you if its right. You have no proof becasue this is the first time i have heard of pakistan being accused of genocide and i have studied almost everyone since the holocaust hows that for an answer.

The only moderate muslim is people like me we don't preach hate we say the truth and we get sluaghtered by peeople like you, i say well done mpacuk well done me and milliosn of decent muslims around the world.

Jai Hind, Salaam and good night vienna

(17) 2007-12-03 14:09:32

shem: Quote

mods

aplogies, but Bangladeshi fish - shut'ghi in particular - is very good and if all sides in the ME process sat down in Annapolis to a nice dish of it and other fish there might be hope that differing sides could find some common ground. Peace through fish-eating.

(18) 2007-12-03 14:17:46

I Sidat: Quote

Before i forget the situation arising between east and west pakistan became a civil war, so no there was no genocide, there was genocide in europe becuase there was systamatic killing of millions of Jews now there's your truth

(19) 2007-12-03 14:30:39

I Sidat: Quote

What planet are you from? establsihed facts are that Israelis come form europe that's fact no where history has that been more apparent, yes thousands of Jews did come from other places but not untill the later years.

Israelis are more violent than ever before that's academic fact, and the muslims who are in your hypothetical consensus is outside the UN agreement use common sense for crying out loud

— Paul M

(20) 2007-12-03 14:35:46

shem: Quote

i sidat

for Pakistani mass murder/attempted genocide of Bangladeshis just google 'bangladesh genocide' and see what you get. just because YOU never heard of it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

(21) 2007-12-03 14:37:56

Mashfiq: Quote

Ok stop using quotes and phrases, no am not extremist, your saying that becasue i am saying the truth, Why don't you just give me your evidence and i'll tell you if its right. You have no proof becasue this is the first time i have heard of pakistan being accused of genocide and i have studied almost everyone since the holocaust hows that for an answer. The only moderate muslim is people like me we don't preach hate we say the truth and we get sluaghtered by peeople like you, i say well done mpacuk well done me and milliosn of decent muslims around the world. Jai Hind, Salaam and good night vienna

— I Sidat

I Sidat, maybe you a bit inarticulate then, if you have researched all the genocides, then you must be selectively choosing what to read. Reading anything that agrees with your mindset. Type it into google and subsequently confront your family as to why your previous family members did what they did. I don't have time to debate with people who are not versed in history.

Secondly, that is what Bin Laden always says, he claims to speak the truth. Does that mean everyone should believe what Bin Laden states?

Thirdly, I agree with Shem bhai, we should all sit down to some Basmati rice with shut'ghi and bring peace. If we all love that, then we all love peace LOL HAHAH!

(22) 2007-12-03 15:06:37

Paul M: Quote

And, picking up on your point Shem, just because I Sidat does not know that there are close on 1.5m Palestinian citizens of Israel does not mean that they do not exist.

(23) 2007-12-03 15:19:09

shan: Quote

It seems zionists are throwing mud every where to hide their own crimes.
what mass murder by pakistan,zionists may have a problem remembering there was a civil war in pakistan out of which one component bengal became bangladesh and the other 4 remained part of pakistan.
civil wars are by definition a messy affair,with brother and sister on diffrent sides,that is what happened in east pakistan.
the goverment was fighting against terrorists trained and financed by india,tens of thousands died on both sides,those who wished to stay as pakistanis and those who supported seperation.
but what i wish to know is what about the on going genocide in palestine,when will the zionists give back what they stole,at least the west pakistanis left and bengal became bangladesh.

(24) 2007-12-03 15:38:05

I Sidat: Quote

i sidat

for Pakistani mass murder/attempted genocide of Bangladeshis just google 'bangladesh genocide' and see what you get. just because YOU never heard of it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

— shem

That's here say it's not proof am asking for academic proof, there was no genocide it was a civil war period end of story. A genocide takes palce when there is systamatic abuse by a power, the bangladesh issue was not both sides were figthing and lost people, it was not ethnic cleansing it was not a case where hundreds of people were killed because of thier beliefs. Think clearly not angrily and you will see what i mean.

(25) 2007-12-03 20:43:14

I Sidat: Quote

She you want me to google, am asking for academic evidence there is non, it was a civil war, period! Pakistan has never committed genocide neithr has anyone recgonised it

(26) 2007-12-04 15:25:22

shem: Quote

Please look up 'genocide' in an etymological dictionary - one which explains what 'genus' means.

I Sidat: I'm still waiting for your quotes from academics that "Israel behaves like the Nazis".
Re. Bangladesh - why don't you ask some Bengalis whether it was a civil war or an attempt to cancel the Bengali language and menfolk? Don't you like Pakistan being criticised. And using your logic, if 'Palestine' is one country which should include what is now Israel then the war between Israelis and Arabs is just a civil war. end of story.
Now go look up 'genocide' - or can't you find a biased enough dictionary?

(27) 2007-12-04 17:06:31

shem: Quote

"What mass murder?" You are a total hypocrite if you choose to overlook what Pakistanis did to Bengalis. Are you of Pakistani origin by any chance? Is that why you won't accept what Pakistan did? They tried o eliminate somebody'd language an then all there men. O fyou gloss over this you have NO place coming here and lecturing to others. Now go read a book. Any book.

(28) 2007-12-04 17:11:26

shan: Quote

its quite nice to see zionists throw mud everywhere to cover their own crimes.
give us the proof that genocide was attempted in east pakistan,from what i know having a national language has never been called genocide.
also you may care to rememeber there was no bangladesh it was pakistan,there was a civil war in which patriots and traitors died,these kind of events happen in all civil wars.
the total number of west pakistani soldeirs was 90,000 out of which around 45,000 were front line soldeirs,so if you are telling us that 45,000 soldeirs attempted genocide against 40 million people.
they sure had to be super human to fight the indian army-the terrorists trained and backed by india and still attempt a genocide.
lies and more lies will not change the fact that israel is built upon stolen land and the owners want their lands and homes back.
if we use your logic then bengalis only endured 24 years of oocupation,whereas palestinians have been under occupation for 60 years,so by your standard your genocide has been more succesful and still caries on today.
since you care for the rights of muslims when wil you be vacating palestine so the palestinians and enjoy freedom in their own lands and homes.

(29) 2007-12-04 17:42:51

Mashfiq: Quote

I Sidat, you are an Islamic fanatic, but please don't hurt us, we are peace loving Muslims. We need to distinguish between sick people like you, and the good Muslims.

Pakistan should be bombed by Israel. full stop. And Bangladesh should formulate diplomatic relations with Israel. Now go away....

(30) 2007-12-04 21:07:01

I Sidat: Quote

— shem

ha ha ha ha i think i answered your qustion in anotrher thread when you asked me am waiting for your. I am simply saying pakistan has never been accussed of genocide and they havn't committed it. Its very simple NO ACADEMIC has stated there was a genocide in bangladesh and wikipedia and dictionary is not academic source.

Use some brains and why don't find me the details and thenn i'll see for myself

lastly i think your the fanatic by being biased towards pakistanis don't put me in your shoes, and you have just incited violence who is the faantic?

(31) 2007-12-05 00:10:01

shan: Quote

mashfiq the zionist says we are peace loving muslims,then goes onto say pakistan should be bombed by israel.
your brain has been so mashfiqed that you contradict your own comments.
so if you are a peace loving muslim why would you advocate israel bombing pakistan thereby killing more people.

(32) 2007-12-05 10:29:21

shem: Quote

Mass murder of men and rape of women, an attempt to eliminate their language - does that sound better than 'genocide'? If you're happy with that description then I am too. Why don't you go and discuss the matter with some Bangladeshis - ask them about their memories of what was done to them by Pakistanis.

(33) 2007-12-05 11:21:41

I Sidat: Quote

— shem

This is a classic example of terrorists and fundemental beliefs which is unislamic, well done brother for showing yourself up, Islam says forgive and forget, infact its forgive and repent, if you say what is true then forgive your fellow brothers and sisters and make dua for them to Allah hows that for some advice? do i get claps i certainly do becuase i know Allah will be proud of me today for spreading knowledge saying the truth and helping a fellow muslim

(34) 2007-12-05 11:44:19

shem: Quote

shan:

perhaps mashfiq was upset that there are some blogging here who would like to minimise the mass rape and murder of Bangladeshis by Pakistan. As you and your mentor Rob seem so fond of saying - actions cause reactions. Perhaps it would have been better to tell him that the mass rape and murder of Bangladeshis by Pakistanis was a shameful event in Pakistani history - rather than denying it or sweeping it under the carpet (as you claim Zionist Jews do). Re. personal remarks - I apologise. Heat of the moment stuff. However, some of your comments deny the right of exstence to others - so you can imagine that people may get hot under the collar.

(35) 2007-12-05 11:51:16

shan: Quote

shem it is lies and deception that i have a problem with,the civil war that occured in pakistan involved the people,patriots and terrorists fought one another and people died on both sides as documented and written about by independent researchers.
as for asking bengalis,my own family members are married to women of the bengladeshi background in britain.
so as i said before by slinging mud on others it is not changing the reality of here and now,which is isareli occupation of palestine.
if we use your logic then palestinians have been suffering from a longer continued cultural and human genocide,the west pakistanis left 26 years ago,so when will israelis leave palestine.

(36) 2007-12-05 12:12:25

I Sidat: Quote

— shem

This was answered earlier, again some form of problems, anyway Shem if your a muslim i don't think you should be saying this, Islam says forgive and repent, basically if what you say is true then you should forgive these people and pray for them, this is islamic.

Muslims don't look for revenge you should have been taught this in mosqu obviously you wern't get a proper knowledge of your religion.

(37) 2007-12-05 15:59:24

I Sidat: Quote

— shem

(38) 2007-12-05 23:34:44

shem: Quote

I sidat:

I'm not Muslim although your concern for my spiritual well-being is appreciated - no sarcasm intended. I wasn't talking about revenge either - I don't know where that came from - just pointing out that some people here seem to minmise the gross acts that went on in that civil war - the mass murder and rape of Bangladeshis by Pakistanis and that it is not nice to see it being waved away as if it were nothing more that the act of war. rape and murder on a massive scale should not be forgotten. where you deny it you show yourself capable of seeing it done again.

(39) 2007-12-06 09:22:13

shem: Quote

...and generally if your Weltanschauung comes from the Mosque/religion, then what place is there for the impartial academic Reason in your repertoire. To me the two can not go together.

(40) 2007-12-06 09:26:03

shan: Quote

shem the west pakistanis left 36 years ago,what are your fellow zionist occupiers still doing in palestine.
rape-torture-murder-daily humiliation and tens of thousands locked up for daring to demand freedom,it is happening here and now.
so why are you talking about what allegedly happend 36 years ago,you care so much for muslims so lets start by condeming zionist occupation of palestine and campaign to end it.
we shall see from your comments whether you are for real or a hypocrit.

(41) 2007-12-06 10:38:00

Mashfiq: Quote

I support all nations, including the state of Israel because it believes in supporting democracy, defending freedom and standing up against terrorism. However, yes, we should critically question the decision and actions taken by Israel. However, I retain my full support for the roadmap and peace process.
We know Israel as many of the moderate countries, including the United Kingdom is at the front line in the struggle against terrorism and extremist violence and we therefore should show solidarity with all involved in that joint effort. Israel is and remains the uniquely positioned lone democracy in a region that no other Arab states are. As some politicians from all parties would agree with my sentiments, I am a strong admirer of what Israelis in all walks of life and have positively achieved in the fields of science, the arts, business and philanthropy, and of the immeasurable contribution of Jewish culture to our own society.
As a British Bangladeshi, I support the establishment of diplomatic relations between Israel and Bangladesh, regardless what other Arab or non-Arab supporters say. Bangladesh is also, as some argue the most inclusive democracy in the Asian sub-continent. While so many other nations seem to have turned away from democracy, for instance, Pakistan with its frequent military coups and extremist madras’s whose members are so politically extreme. We are proud of our Bangladesh, a country for Hindus, Christians and Muslims and those with no religion.
I also believe that Bangladesh is uniquely positioned to help bring peace to a region that has resisted peace for so long: the Middle East. The Middle East can learn a lot from us Bangladeshis. Of all the nations that were carved out of the former British colony in South Asia, Bangladesh has become the most successful in accommodating a diverse population. Its different groups have been able to live side by side without inter-ethnic violence. Can either India or Pakistan make the same claim? My great country provides the world with a unique example of a nation that allows its people freedom of religion, even while having its own state religion. Yes, Bangladeshis do have a great deal to teach the peoples in the Middle East.

It would be very difficult for Bangladesh to play such a role in this conflict while it does not formally recognise the sovereignty of one of the parties. Therefore, there is a need for recognising the sovereignty Israel, along with other nations, such as Turkey and Egypt who, for instance, already recognise the sovereignty of Israel. If they can, why can’t Bangladesh recognise the legitimacy of Israel? It would be difficult to broach such an issue when there is no Bangladeshi diplomatic corps in Israel to contact its Israeli counterparts. Furthermore, Bangladesh needs to send those collaborators from Jamaat Islami back to Pakistan, those same Islamist who were traitors and worked against the people of Bangladesh.

(42) 2007-12-06 11:16:49

sufik: Quote

Annapolis sabotaged

ISRAEL has proceeded to sabotage the Annapolis agreement even before the ink has dried on it. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has told his cabinet he was not going to abide by the deadline given under the agreement that visualises the emergence of an independent Palestinian state before the end of 2008. The accord was signed last week at Maryland’s capital with great fanfare by President George Bush, Mr Olmert and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in the presence of delegates from 22 countries. Now Mr Olmert says that Israel is not bound by the agreement and that progress in the negotiations depends on Palestine reining in its militants. This volte-face by Israel is nothing new. It has a track record of violating solemn pacts on the slightest pretext. That is how it has maintained its hold over the occupied territories and strengthened its stranglehold on the West Bank — and until recently on Gaza.

The irony of the document signed on Nov 27 is that it contains repeated references to the 2003 road map unveiled by President Bush and approved by the Quartet — the other three of its members being Russia, the EU and the UN. The road map was itself never implemented with the tacit agreement of Washington and Tel Aviv. The road map had provided for the emergence of a Palestinian state ‘by 2005’ but President Bush had scuttled it by saying that 2005 was an unrealistic date for a Palestinian state to come into being. Whatever possibility was there for the road map’s success had disappeared when, on one of his visits to the White House, the Israeli prime minister had prevailed upon Mr Bush to let Israel retain ‘some’ land in the West Bank. President Bush went public with the acceptance of this demand. The road map was dead. Now within a week of the signing of an international accord at Annapolis, Mr Olmert has made his intentions known. He is confident that Israel will get away with his intransigence because in an American presidential election year no one in the US media or Congress will have the courage to tell the truth and hold the Jewish state guilty of violating an agreement to which America is a party.

(43) 2007-12-06 13:33:02

shem: Quote

Palestinian women are not being raped, so let's get that straight. That kind of comment is used to whip up hysteria amongst suicide-bombers. If you choose to ignore what happened in Bangladesh because it was 36 years ago - then that is up to you. Israel should not be occupying ARAB JORDAN. But as her neighbours tried many times to invade and drive out the Jews, and as Israel would only be 22 miles wide without the West Bank (which is not enough for security reasons) I think they should renegotiate the borders. But as you don't think Israel has the right to exist and you deny the Jews their identity as Jews there is no discussion to be had between us. Israel exists. If that bothers you as a Christian or a Muslim I would suggest that you have a problem with Jews at a religious level. Is it because they invented monotheism and don't recognise Jesus and Mohamed?

(44) 2007-12-06 14:54:21

shan: Quote

shem,so what do you think indian trained and financed terrorists were saying to whip up hysteria in east pakistan.
what a hypocrit you are shem you tell me not to ignore what allegedly happend 3 years ago,but you refuse to accept what is happening here and now.
i do not deny anybody the right to be jews or whatever i do not like people lecturing others about rights and wrongs,first of all palestine must be freed from occuaption ad subjugation,i find it amusing mashfiq the zionist claim to be a bangladeshi and supports what the bengalis did,instead of siding with the palestinians to gain freedom he sides with the occupier.
see mashfiq this is how your mask slips from time to time.

(45) 2007-12-06 16:54:27

I Sidat: Quote

Ha ha ha ha i think there is only one and decent democracy who play by the rules and that is the Indian one, becasue inda does not discriminate on the grounds of race and religion when it comes to leadership, if you look at bangladesh you will see that only a muslim can be a leader, look very carefully before making a comment back.

Anyway, as my first point on this thread, palestine will never be free and those poor souls will never get their home back this is because of the UN, if these people did thier job properly and used 'democratic' measures over a million peopletoday would have been in peace and homed.

(46) 2007-12-06 20:38:55

Mashfiq: Quote

Shan:

You accuse me of being a Zionist, next you will probably fling the accusation that I work for Mossad and once you have run out of levelling such accusations, gradually your claims will fall into anti-Semitism. You have no evidence whatsoever to prove that I am a Zionist.

I have always advocated a two-state solution, where there is a viable Palestinian state, bordering the democratically established state of Israel. As a Muslim and British Bangladeshi, regardless of what you convey, I ardently seek diplomatic relations between Bangladesh and Israel.

If you have any evidence, I suggest you either publicly present it, or run back to your extremist shell and remain silent.

(47) 2007-12-06 21:12:03

shem: Quote

Israel exists. Jews exist. If that bothers you, hard cheese.

(48) 2007-12-07 09:09:57

shan: Quote

israel exists no skin of my nose,just do not lecture us about human rights and democracy in occupied palestine.

(49) 2007-12-07 10:27:31

shem: Quote

Bangladeshi girls, 7 and 8 year olds raped a buried alive - no pakistani has the right to lecture others without first confronting that!

(50) 2007-12-10 09:05:42

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