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| British Doctor Visits And Reports On Palestine |
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| Thursday, 22 November 2007 | |
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"Go and see the truth for yourself. I did." I have been following the debate in these columns with a mixture of interest and incredulity. I wonder how many of those who accuse Tom Hickey and Derek Summerfield of 'anti-Israel bias' and 'anti-Semitism' have actually visited the West Bank or Gaza to see the facts for themselves? I had the good fortune to visit Israel and the West Bank for two weeks in August. What I saw there changed my life forever. We spent a lot of time at checkpoints in the West Bank. Unfortunately, the word 'checkpoint' sounds so benign that it hardly conveys the horror of the place. Have you seen a cattle shed crammed full of animals? With only one gate to get out, guarded by a farmer with a stick? Well, just replace him with an Israeli soldier with a rifle – and the animals with Palestinians – and you're not far. At Huwwara checkpoint near Nablus, we saw a queue extending for half a kilometre out of the cramped shed and into the merciless sun. One by one, the Palestinians were called forward and their documents inspected. Some got through, others were turned back. Depending on the mood of the soldier. The explanation given for the checkpoints – 'security' – is a lie, as the barriers mostly stand between Palestinian cities and towns, not between Palestine and Israel. Israel, through its system of 700 checkpoints, roadblocks and earth mounds in the West Bank strangles the Palestinians' freedom of movement. 68 women have been forced to give birth at checkpoints since the year 2000. Half of the babies involved have died, as have 4 of the women. Many of the babies born have suffered irreversible brain damage. Imagine being the helpless husband or son of a woman forced to endure the pain of labour on the baking earth at a checkpoint- with an armed soldier looking on- and you will begin to understand how suicide bombers are born. 18,000 houses have been demolished by Israel since 1967, often over the heads of their inhabitants (Source: Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions). The reason given again? The big lie – security. The truth is that even if a Palestinian owns a piece of land, to build or extend an existing dwelling on it, he must put in an application costing $20,000. This is almost uniformly rejected, and as his family grows, he is forced to build illegally. Then in come the bulldozers. The Palestinian then has to clear the rubble themselves and pay the Israeli government for the cost of demolishing his house. There have been several references in these columns to the attempted terrorist attacks by Muslim doctors in Britain. Such people would do well to remember that the first 'doctor terrorist' was Jewish – Baruch Goldstein, who gunned down 29 Palestinians at prayer in the city of Hebron in 1994, injuring 150 others. A shrine to Goldstein has been erected in the fanatical settlement of Kiryat Arba – a plaque there reads: "To the holy Baruch Goldstein, who gave his life for the Jewish people, the Torah and the nation of Israel". It has become a pilgrimage site for those with extreme right-wing views. In the old city of Hebron, 400 fanatical settlers – protected by Israeli Defence Force soldiers – hold 30,000 Palestinians to ransom. They stone and kick the inhabitants, while the Israeli army forbids Palestinians to drive – in some areas, even to walk – on the streets. I saw for myself the concrete blocks, rubbish and human excrement thrown down onto passing Palestinians by the illegal settlers occupying the flats above Arab shops. The racist graffiti is shocking: – 'Arabs to the gas chambers!' – 'Watch out Fatima, we will rape all Arabs!' – 'Mohammed is a pig'. Below this is a drawing of a pig reading the Quran. – 'If you Arabs had just used a f***ing condom, then none of this would have happened!' (If anybody finds this unbelievable, give me your email address and I shall be all too happy to send you photographic evidence.) Walking through old Hebron, you pass row upon row of abandoned shops with their doors welded together and spray-painted with the Star of David. The resonance of the Warsaw ghetto is chilling. As for the stance that Israel is the 'only democracy in the Middle East' and 'treats all its citizens equally', I invite you to visit the Negev desert in Israel. The Israeli organization Physicians for Human Rights told us of the plight of Bedouins there. There are 60 villages which have existed before 1948, the existence of which Israel does not recognize. As a result they have no healthcare, electricity or clean water. Their infant mortality rate is 7 times the Israeli average – in the 4th richest country in the world, with possibly the best healthcare system anywhere. Those who grieve at the potential loss of academic freedom that a boycott of Israel may cause would do well to learn about the violation of Palestinian academic freedom. We visited Birzeit University just outside Ramallah. There we were told by Yasser Darwish, the Public Relations officer for the institution, how during the Second Intifada the Israelis constructed a checkpoint between Ramallah city and Birzeit. This checkpoint was nothing but a series of earth mounds, piles of rubble and huge rocks stretching for a mile and a half – with the sole purpose of obstructing the passage of people. This was not all – people trying to reach the University by walking around the obstacles were often greeted with beatings, rubber bullets and teargas. Sometimes students and teachers would be allowed to go to Birzeit in the morning but the checkpoint would be completely closed in the afternoon when it was time to go home. 5000 students and teachers would then have to take a circuitous route over hills and through valleys to get home- this would take upto 2 hours. Students – including females – were subjected to humiliating body searches. Soldiers stormed the women's dormitories on several occasions, breaking windows, doors and furniture. Electricity, water and telephone lines in Birzeit and Ramallah were cut off, isolating people from the outside world. Healthcare is not a 'basic human right' in Palestine. It is incredible that some people have been highlighting the graciousness of Israel in agreeing to treat wounded and ill Palestinians. Under the Geneva conventions, an occupying power has responsibility for the health of the people it occupies. In Nablus, we visited Rafidia Hospital, the main general hospital. We were met by Dr Sadaqah, the Deputy Director. He told us that each time the Israelis invade Nablus, the first thing they do is to encircle the hospital, preventing the passage of staff and patients and resulting in unnecessary deaths. Sometimes patients need to be transferred to hospitals in Jerusalem or Israel – however the Israeli authorities create hurdles at every opportunity. Often by the time permission is obtained (a minimum of 2 days even for an emergency), the patient dies – this happened to a burns patient two days before our visit. At the height of the 2002-2003 invasions and curfews, Rafidia received 8-9 cases of serious injuries every day. Staff ended up living in the hospital for 23 days. The Israeli army prevented casualties from the Old City from going to Rafidia – a clinic was set up in a mosque in the Old City to deal with them. Dr Sadaqah told us that this clinic had to perform two emergency amputations without anaesthesia. The Israelis would also prevent bodies from being taken for burial- as a result the hospital morgue overflowed and ice-cream trucks had to be used to store the bodies. He also told us that the Israelis would regularly enter the hospital, and actually removed 4 patients from their beds. One of these was actually an intensive care patient who had just returned from major surgery. When the doctors and nurses asked for reasons, they were simply pushed aside. We were horrified to learn that when the soldiers removed patients from the hospital, they were accompanied by Israeli doctors who never tried to stop this happening. The soldiers would often remove patients from ambulances while they 'checked' them. Do you hear the Israeli Medical Association protesting against these gross violations of human rights by Israel? I had the good fortune to interview two students from Al Quds University Medical School in Jerusalem. To understand the unique situation that al-Quds students – and indeed all Palestinian Jerusalemites – face, it is important to revisit 1967 when Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza, and illegally annexed East Jerusalem. Israel declared Jerusalem to be 'the unified capital of Israel'; a position not recognized by the international community, including the United States. The Palestinian residents of Jerusalem were offered Israeli citizenship – however this entailed pledging allegiance to Israel. Unsurprisingly, most of them declined. They were therefore declared 'residents' without citizenship, and are obliged to carry blue Jerusalem ID cards. The space next to 'Nationality' on these cards is blank. The residents of the West Bank, in contrast, carry green ID cards. Blue ID holders cannot travel to the West Bank, and those with green ID cannot enter Jerusalem. This situation has divided families – including married couples. If a Jerusalem resident marries a West Bank Palestinian, it is forbidden for them to live together either in the West Bank or Jerusalem. As a result, many couples live illegally, in constant fear that one of them will be discovered and expelled. The only precedent to this obscene situation is that of South Africa under apartheid. The students explained that the campus of the medical school is located in the Jerusalem suburb of Abu Dis. The main teaching hospital – Maqassed – is in the city proper. You used to be unable to tell where Abu Dis ended and Jerusalem started. Not any more. Israel's Separation Wall has separated the two and for all practical purposes, Abu Dis is now in the West Bank. One of the students told us that of the 40 students in his year, 5 have blue ID and the rest green. You can imagine the consequences. To go to Maqassed for their training, students with green ID need a special permit – which is very difficult to obtain. Even those who manage to get one can never be sure they will make it to the hospital as they are frequently turned away at the checkpoint for no reason. Therefore most green ID students are forced to travel to West Bank hospitals for their clinics – across more checkpoints. The converse situation is that blue ID students may be able to attend clinics but are often stopped from going to lectures in Abu Dis. And this is no straightforward trip – a journey that should take no more than ten minutes can last an hour and a half due to checkpoints and the circuitous route the students have to take. When they do manage to qualify, al-Quds doctors are prohibited from working in hospitals in Jerusalem and Israel as their qualification is not recognized by Israel. The West Bank hospitals are only an option for those with green ID. This situation forces many to go abroad.
As for those who claim that Israel, with its violations of human rights, is 'merely defending itself', I would like to bring to your attention the following statistic from the BBC: In 2006, 660 Palestinians were killed by Israeli 'security' forces. These included 141 children. The total number of Israelis killed by Palestinians in 2006? 23. Follow the link below for the story: Now that I am back in the UK – and have opened my mouth in these columns – I know I shall be accused of being anti-Semitic. This is intellectually bankrupt nonsense. I have many Jewish friends in Britain, and now in Israel as well. They are disgusted at what Israel is doing, and are fighting a brave and often dangerous battle, sometimes at the expense of being ostracized by family and friends. The leading critics of Israeli policy – Noam Chomsky, Amira Hass, Ilan Pappe, Norman Finkelstein, the late Tanya Reinhart – are all Jewish. This is not a centuries-old Jews versus Muslims conflict. (Also remember – 12% of Palestinians are Christians, and this number includes leading figures like Hanan Ashrawi and the late Edward Said.) It is a matter of basic human rights. If one is criticizing house demolitions, checkpoints, extrajudicial executions etc, and one is accused of being anti-Semitic, then the accuser is bizarre indeed. In order for these criticisms to be anti-Semitic, the accuser has to accept those violations of international law as inherent characteristics of Judaism. So who is being anti-Semitic here? Another question I am likely to be asked is, 'There are so many conflicts in the world today – why are you so obsessed with Palestine?' In case you hadn't guessed by now, justice for Palestine is the key to peace in the Middle East. It is a festering sore in the flesh of every Arab; the longer it goes on, the more resentful of the West they become. Yes, there are many terrible conflicts like Darfur, Somalia, the Congo, Chechnya and Kashmir. But these are relatively recent, while the oppression of the Palestinians has been going on for 60 years. It is the longest ongoing occupation in the world today – and the only one apart from Iraq. And the only one where the oppressor is being financed and armed to the teeth by the 'civilized' world. You may wonder what all this has got to do with the debate over a boycott. Well, despite individual dissenting voices, it is clear that Israeli academia and the Israeli Medical Association have failed to come out as a body and condemn the occupation. This is despite repeated calls by Palestinian, Israeli and international human rights organizations. By their silence, they are complicit in human rights abuses – I have no choice but to campaign for a boycott. The 'exchange of ideas' has led nowhere – despite years of talks at governmental level, a just peace for the Palestinians remains a distant dream. It is time for people in other countries to adopt measures to stigmatize Israel, something which their governments refuse to do. There is a precedent – South Africa. Given the fact that many prominent South Africans – including Nelson Mandela, Ronnie Kasrils and Desmond Tutu – have publicly said that Israel's oppression of the Palestinians is far worse than South Africa under apartheid – why the hesitation to enforce a boycott? As for those who sympathize with the Palestinians but are against boycotts, I have a simple question – in that case, what are they going to do for the Palestinians – whom the world has boycotted and abandoned for so long? If the academic freedom of Israelis is sacred, should that not apply to Palestinians as well? Competing interests: I am a Muslim who refuses to be labelled an anti-Semite simply for criticizing the oppressive policies of the Israeli state. For a full account of Asad Khan's trip, please visit: chestdocinpalestine.blogspot.com Readers have left 46 comments.
Tahira:
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This brother argues the case for boycotting Israel very powerfully mash'Allah. It is so encouraging to see a Muslim professional not just retreating into a comfortable middle-class life in Britain but trying to inform and activate his fellow doctors - and even going to Palestine himself.
(1)
2007-11-23 08:46:58
Samson:
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There's a lot to argue against. Here's the first:-
"The explanation given for the checkpoints – 'security' – is a lie, as the barriers mostly stand between Palestinian cities and towns, not between Palestine and Israel. " (Well I wouldn't take the biased word of the writer for that as a fact) So, terrorists don't travel between Palestinian towns? Weapons smugglers don't try and move between Palestinian towns? Great writing. First describe the plight of animals and then try and plant that model onto the situation. You then construct "Israel treats Palestinians like animals" headline possibility and all due to a bit of hyperbole by the writer.
(2)
2007-11-23 09:35:54
Samson:
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This one always creases me up!
"68 women have been forced to give birth at checkpoints since the year 2000." Absolute rubbish. No-one can FORCE anyone to give birth. It is the height of stupidity to try and travel through a checkpoint when heavily pregnant, when you know you could be subject to a delay. Why do Palestinian men allow their women to do this? Its almost as if some Israel soldier says "Give birth now, and that is an order!" Its statements like this that simply dissolve any perceived injustices into fantasy land.
(3)
2007-11-23 09:39:08
Syed:
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Absolute rubbish. No-one can FORCE anyone to give birth. It is the height of stupidity to try and travel through a checkpoint when heavily pregnant, when you know you could be subject to a delay. — SamsonBut as usual, you already know what the author is trying to say, but you twist the words so to dilute the point and direct the debate in a different direction. I urge Muslims to ignore the likes of Samson and take inspiration from this doctor; let us pray that we can also go to Palestine and assist the oppressed either by volunteering with charitable organisations or simply as an observer to report our findings back in the West. Back to the article. I completely agree with the following points 100%: "This is not a centuries-old Jews versus Muslims conflict. [...] It is a matter of basic human rights." and "Another question I am likely to be asked is, 'There are so many conflicts in the world today – why are you so obsessed with Palestine?' In case you hadn't guessed by now, justice for Palestine is the key to peace in the Middle East."
(4)
2007-11-23 10:03:44
truth:
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Poor Samson:
your delusions are taking control of you. try and speak the truth if you are a true believer. remember it finally catches up with you. what do you want the palestinians to do? love the nazi's who have taken over their land, demolished their homes, killed their families and have imprisoned them like cattle. the only thing left now is the gas my freind and i dont think these nazi's are far away from it. i understand the the germans are still paying reparations. i wonder how long these nazi'z will have to pay?.
(5)
2007-11-23 10:30:42
Rob:
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anyone who watches the news knows that palestinians are humiliated at checkpoints by young gun toting terrorists day in day out.
whenever israel feels like it,they close crossings with people stuck in places for days if not weeks,according to the bigoted hatefilled samson palestinian women should not go out when pregnant,they should give birth at home as after all according to zionists palestinians are sub humans. you can see real anti-semitism day in and out agaimst the semitic people of palestine by israeli gun toting terrorists. if you steal some ones property then there can be no peace until the property is returned and in this case,the lands and homes of millions have been taken.
(6)
2007-11-23 10:43:11
you muppet:
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everyone dont let Samson or waht ever he calls himself and Jeff (probably the same person or at the very least sisters) subvert this thread, don't respond to their incitment, and if they try to subvert the discussion why hasnt MPAC danned them?
the article is powerful and I want to give it to my local shop that sold Israeli dates for Muslims to open their fasts during ramadan. but I bet that they will not read anything that isnt relvant to them making money.
(7)
2007-11-23 11:13:36
zayba:
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i agree ignore the delusional samson and appreciate the efforts and compassion of this wonderful brother. Leave appreciative comments on his blog too....
(8)
2007-11-23 13:44:55
Samson:
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Poor Samson: — truthyour delusions are taking control of you. try and speak the truth if you are a true believer. remember it finally catches up with you. what do you want the palestinians to do? love the nazi's who have taken over their land, demolished their homes, killed their families and have imprisoned them like cattle. the only thing left now is the gas my freind and i dont think these nazi's are far away from it. i understand the the germans are still paying reparations. i wonder how long these nazi'z will have to pay?. LOL!!!!!
(9)
2007-11-23 13:56:25
Samson:
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anyone who watches the news knows that palestinians are humiliated at checkpoints by young gun toting terrorists day in day out. — Robwhenever israel feels like it,they close crossings with people stuck in places for days if not weeks,according to the bigoted hatefilled samson palestinian women should not go out when pregnant,they should give birth at home as after all according to zionists palestinians are sub humans. you can see real anti-semitism day in and out agaimst the semitic people of palestine by israeli gun toting terrorists. if you steal some ones property then there can be no peace until the property is returned and in this case,the lands and homes of millions have been taken. Even MORE LOL!!! Antisemitism ONLY applies to hatred against Jews. How restrictive were the checkpoints BEFORE Palestinian suicice bombers. All I know is that Israel doesn't suffer suicide bombers any more. You would think that the conditions the Palestinians suffer would have made them follow The Roadmap - but No! If ever a people were abused by their Arab and Muslim brothers then its the Palestinians. I'll bet you will tell me that compared to Israel, Hamas are like the Red Cross! I find that trying to make THIS point is the height of idiocy. You said "palestinian women should not go out when pregnant,they should give birth at home" YESSSSSS!!!!! Any pregnant mother and expectant father doesn't take this risk. Where are the Palestinian midwives???? They get enough aid money! While Palestinians spend their money on guns and weapons in order to fight when they get peace by following the Roadmap then I have zero sympathy for self-inflicted harm. Stop selling me "Brutal Occupation" and "Get out of occupied territory". That is exactly what The Roadmap gives the Palestinians but they obviously don't want peace by peaceful means. You ALL ignore a peace process. You ALL seem to think its OK to kill the so-called occupiers rather than follow a peaceful process. Quite frankly its the Palestinians choice so why not expend energy on getting the Palestinians to negotiate peace? If its so tough then sit down and follow the peace plan.
(10)
2007-11-23 14:04:41
Have Deceny:
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I've reading the comments here by some and for me, I must say:
"What planet you're living on? Cause it's not planet earth." When people read such articles, they seem to all ways, like idoits and morons, who been living in some fantasy world to believe, "No, 69 women forced to have birth in the street! Never happens, no one CAN ever force women to do that!" They'll even come out with downright ignorant and lies as, "Oh, there is no suicide bombers in Isreal now. No, we got it all in control." Bull****! I swear, some people are either stupid, or ignorant or have been living in some box for God knows how many years. These atrocities are happening! And more, worse than these are happening today as well around the world but some of you are stuck up in some blind folded world, you think we live in some world of damn justice! You thick people here are thick or believe what that it doesn't happen. It happens! It's a fact! What school or college, or university has warped your minds to come out with some of the most unbelievable stupid comments. At least this doctor has verified what he saw but some of you here, talk a lot of rubbish, with no facts, no photographs, no videos, nothing. I swear, if women were raped right in your city, and it was televised, filmed, photographed and slapped right on your face, you will still say: "No! It NEVER HAPPENS. I NEVER SAW IT." And Samson. Get a dictionary or something. How many LOL's" you're going to use? Either answer, debate or come out with something more than.. And Isreal don't suffer suicide bombers anymore. Oh God, I know you ain't for real. I now know from your comments here, you just ain't. Oh, wait for it now. Here's another joke and absurd comment: You ALL ignore a peace process. You ALL seem to think its OK to kill the so-called occupiers rather than follow a peaceful process. Negotiate peace? Negotiate? Let me see now. We got a wall ruunning right through. We can see what? Check points all over the place. We got got conditions for peace process that is so ridicolous that if that was thrown at the Brits or USA - they'd be a damn revolution and blood bath. Give over. Wake up. Don't play that stupid game mate. We all know what Isreal want and it sure isn't peace. They want the whole shabang, everything or nothing. And USA is funding them to the teeth. That is a FACT and you can paint the next comment of yours with as many LOLS and "mideives" comments which shows how you just so not into debating the facts that the article and the doctors blog has shown. Don't bother debating people on this issue because it is always boils down to: 1. Oh, they don't want to negotiate peace. 2. Palestine is the Promised land of Isreal. 3. Suicide bombers and that's why we go through every Palestinians homes and blasts holes and buill doze their houses. 4. They got funding and blah blah. I thought I would see better reason, better thoughts, more deeper and reality check, and rationale but what I have seen here by some people, is stupidity to the max. And what some don't understand - if this issue isn't sorted out, there will be NO PEACE within the world. This issue is fueling hatred against Isreal, against America and also against the silent global community. Go back to your hole Samson or is it Jeff? When a human being says, "This one creases me up.." And its about women who giving birth in the street, then it shows what state you are in, and how people will see what you're really are. At least have the decency to show human compassion, and disgust, to even if it was one woman. Forget 69 but one woman mentioned on here.
(11)
2007-11-23 17:48:58
Samson:
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Have Decency. It would be rude to ignore your post. So I won't.
Let's just take one issue. No Palestinian woman is FORCED to give birth at a checkpoint. It simply is NOT true that they are FORCED to give birth. Why leave homw when heaviliy pregnant when you KNOW you can get caught at a checkpoint. It just doesn't make sense unless its something you planned to do in order to blame it on Israel. Where are the Palestinian midwives you could have bought with all the aid money. Sorry but the point is invented and manipulated. I do NOT doubt that Palestinian women have given birth at a checkpoint. I dispute they are FORCED to do so. Now, don't insult our intelligence with this stuff.
(12)
2007-11-23 23:34:00
Qaiser:
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Where are the Palestinian midwives you could have bought with all the aid money. I do NOT doubt that Palestinian women have given birth at a checkpoint. I dispute they are FORCED to do so. Samson, As someone who seems fervently pro-Israel I would be under the impression that you have travelled there many times and indeed helped the demographics by producing a few dozen zionist offspring. Can you then clarify for me the following points: 1. Do all Israeli women give birth at home? 2. Are all Jewish births in Israel dealt with by midwives? 3. Do no births take place at your hospitals and specialist childbirth units? The billions that Israel receives in direct economic and military aid from the United States allows Israel to build facilities that Palestinians can only dream of with the meagre amounts they receive. Dr Khan, thankyou for this article - thankyou for having the courage to travel to occupied Palestine and the conviction to write about the horrors you saw. Many will cry anti-semitism - this is as predictable as the morning traffic on the M1!
(13)
2007-11-24 08:11:08
Samson:
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Where are the Palestinian midwives you could have bought with all the aid money. I do NOT doubt that Palestinian women have given birth at a checkpoint. I dispute they are FORCED to do so. Samson, As someone who seems fervently pro-Israel I would be under the impression that you have travelled there many times and indeed helped the demographics by producing a few dozen zionist offspring. Can you then clarify for me the following points: 1. Do all Israeli women give birth at home? 2. Are all Jewish births in Israel dealt with by midwives? 3. Do no births take place at your hospitals and specialist childbirth units? The billions that Israel receives in direct economic and military aid from the United States allows Israel to build facilities that Palestinians can only dream of with the meagre amounts they receive. Dr Khan, thankyou for this article - thankyou for having the courage to travel to occupied Palestine and the conviction to write about the horrors you saw. Many will cry anti-semitism - this is as predictable as the morning traffic on the M1! Here is your answer to what Israeli women do when giving birth. They do exactly what any European or Westerner does. Hey, really good of you to accidentally expose your anti-Semitic undertone. Started out with "Israeli" and then slipped in "Jewish" in Q2. Why are you concerned with what "JEWISH" people do about births in Israel? Israeli citizens are Jewish, Christian and Muslim. Why does it ONLY concern you what "JEWISH" women go through. Do ALL Palestinian women give birth either at home or at a checkpoint or do they sometimes go to a clinic or hospital? Do Palestinians have zero hospitals? Where have the billions of dollars of aid money sent to the Palestinians gone to? Why is it that anyone now giving aid to the Palestinians only send it to Palestinian Finance ministers to ensure it doesn't get stolen and used for arms instead of food and infrastructure? Palestinians have received more aid money per capita than any other people on Earth.
(14)
2007-11-24 11:00:44
The Box:
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Due to the war that happened in our country, of civil wars especially within both sides of Yemen - many men died. Many who were providing for mothers, wife, etc.
Some of the kids too who were 12 -13- 15-16 years old killed and sometimes it was accident, someone times it was a bullet flying through. I was one of the lucky ones and now live in UK. I saw women in my village that had no one to look after them. Three of them were pregnant. No one would help. Everyone had their own problems, own sickness, own challenges to such, it would be crazy to mention here. It was mad chaos at that time So, these women, though it pained them so, they needed money. They needed to get food. They needed to get powdered milk. They also could not just go and give the money they had to anyone as one would run away with the money. I saw this happen with my mother too. I was that child in her womb, 8 month in her womb, when she had to walk for miles to get just milk powder and flower for Khubs which like chappattis but thicker. She would walk all the way there and back. One cannot comprehend living here in UK or USA this kind of journey or reasoning - because women in our country were strong, gone through major hard time, no shoes when walking in the heat and not like here. They were tough women. But also, the way people think here, the way I see here - is they live in a box. They rationalise things within their world, their assumptions, their logical thinking. There is no logic to war, famine, and pregnant women giving birth at check point. There is only the desperation of, "I got to get food my child, or he won't stop crying and die." At the age of 9 years old in my country, I saw this happen even more. More and more men were getting killed, or they were imprisoned for not complying with Yemeni government to be in the army for 2 years and then they can leave and do whatever. Other men were journalist and like now, imprisoned because they speak out against the courrupt president of Yemen, against USA's policies and kissing butt of the Yemeni President who pockets all the funding and gives it to his merry men. Now, I seen this with my own eyes. I been in my own country and saw it. I also been to Occuppied Palestine and so, I know exactly what the Dr says. So for me, whatever you say Samson is something that is way out of order. I don't have a hard time believing, women walking for miles, to go to other end, even if they are 9 months pregnant. You in other hand have this logical thing that all is merry, justice is there, and hospital is right in corner, and if there were one, all are Palestinian doctors. And that people can go there and hey presto, they will by fine. Or, there are mid wives too. Or EVERYONE with ID card can walk right up and get a mid wife. Yes, its so easy. No. People go to check point and sometimes, it takes them 8 months to get to other side, to sort out a doctor, or midwife or whatever they need. But you won’t know this Samson. You haven’t I suppose been there. Have you? No, you haven't. You debate with your own logic and that's the problem which gets people to really see through the eyes of the Palestinian people.
(15)
2007-11-24 15:48:36
Delila:
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"No. People go to check point and sometimes, it takes them 8 months to get to other side, to sort out a doctor, or midwife or whatever they need. "
Then its pretty daft to get pregnant if you believe you have no means of delivery and no hospital. What did 'Palestinians' do BEFORE hospitals?
(16)
2007-11-25 00:03:16
Asad:
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Hello
I am the author of the above article and I've just stumbled upon the discussion it's led to. Samson and Delila- thank you for spending so much time here, you have certainly made me more important than I am.
(17)
2007-11-25 03:52:43
Delila:
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Asad, as a doctor you are VERY important.
Your politics are separate from your chosen profession. But how you can suggest that Palestinian women are FORCED to give birth at a checkpoint is beyond reality. Would you, as a doctor, suggest a heavily pregnant mother try to negotiate a checkpoint? Why aren't you suggesting the Palestinians fund more midwives? Also, isn't the word "FORCED" ambiguous? A few days ago a mother was "forced" to give birth in an NHS cap park because the maternity unit was closed. WHen you are giving birth you are 'forced' to do it whether you are in a maternity bed or ina field. There is little choice.
(18)
2007-11-25 10:18:23
Qaiser:
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Samson,
Clearly you are a dim witted imbecile and this therefore will be my last response to your pathetic assertions. 1. Palestinians were sent billions in aid and have received more aid per capita than any other country - please provide sources for this information. 2. Funds are now given directly to the finance ministry so that they are not used for Arms - Please can you tell me the number of F16's, Tanks, Missiles, Nuclear Warheads, Cluster bombs, Helicopters, Submarines and Aircraft carriers the Palestinians have made or purchased with the supposed Billions that has been diverted from Infrastructure programs towards weapons. 3. Is the USA currently not providing small arms and training to the Fatah group - Ultimately it will be these Arms that will end up in the hands of the so called terrorists - but whats a few AK47's & home made rockets against one of the worlds largest armies? 4. Anti-Semitic undertone? Oh please -Do grow up! I suppose Sansom if your home and land was taken over by an individual who claims his ancestors lived their a few thousand years ago you would happily move out, give him a box of chocolates and send him a Christmas card every year?! Give the Palestinians Justice and their dignity and Israel will have peace.
(19)
2007-11-25 11:57:27
Asad:
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A heavily pregnant woman about to go into labour doesn't jump into a car for fun. She does so because she needs to get to hospital.
The report of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights dated 23 February 2007 states that between 2000 and 2006, 69 pregnant women on their way to hospital were forcibly prevented from completing their journey, and therefore they had to give birth at checkpoints. 35 of the babies and 5 of the women died during the process of childbirth. Have you wondered why the infant mortality rate in this report is more than 50%? Because these are women whose labour ran into difficulties- many women whose childbirth is expected to be uncomplicated don't bother going to hospital, because they know they risk being detained at checkpoints. In any case, most women these days prefer to give birth in hospital and I don't see why it should be any different for Palestinian women. But with hundreds of restrictions on movement throughout the West Bank, a simple journey of a few kilometres from home to hospital can end in tragedy. The right to access healthcare is a fundamental human right. But some of the people posting here are playing with words like 'forced' to deflect from the inhumanity of the situation. They are resorting to desperate tactics like this in panic, now that more and more people are exposing Israel's crimes. Want to read more about pregnant women and other patients at checkpoints? Visit Amnesty's website and look up their report on 'Enduring Occupation: Palestinians under siege in the West Bank.'
(20)
2007-11-25 15:37:15
Delila:
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Qaiser,
Jews don't 'claim' that their ancesters lived in Ancient Israel (aka Palestine) but in fact they DID come from that region. Anyway, read your Koran, its in there. I'm looking at an article entitled "Palestinian minister admits aid millions lost", Daily Telegraph 11th March 2007 "In the 14 months since Hamas won elections, Palestinian finances have descended into such chaos that there is now no way to confirm whether aid is going to its stated purpose, according to Salam Fayyad, 54, who is poised to start his second stint as treasury chief once the rival Hamas and Fatah factions finalise a "unity" government. An estimated £362.5 million has flowed into Palestinian government coffers from abroad since the election that brought Hamas to power and ushered in a period of internal conflict that came close to all-out civil war. The European Union alone provided £59.5 million last year and sent a far greater sum directly to hospitals, power generation projects and to families in need. Now, Palestinian Authority spending is out of control, salaries are being paid to workers who never turn up, and nobody can track where the money is going, according to Mr Fayyad. There was no way to be certain that aid was being used as intended, he admitted. "Please write this: no one can give donors that assurance. Why? Because the system is in a state of total disrepair." As for 'billions' and 'most aid per capita' I am unable to substantiate Samson's claim.
(21)
2007-11-25 15:49:59
Muslim reader:
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Why not send the photographical evidence of the racist graffitti to the BBC and publicise what's happening?
(22)
2007-11-25 22:19:08
RSD:
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What occurs along the Security Fence / Wall and at checkpoints is frequently disturbing, but this description is highly partial to say the least. Dr Khan fails to mention that the reason that the Israelis have cracked down upon the movement of pregnant women and other ill people is that the Palestinian Forces, with the apparent sanction of the Palestinian Red Crsecent, have repeatedly used ambulances and other vehicles marked with RC symbols to move weapons, bombs and combat personnel. Some of you may recall that a while back Hamas attempted to use a young woman from Gaza receiving plastic surgery in Israel, for burns she got after her cooker exploded, as a suicide bomber intending to detonate the bomb in the hsopital where she was getting treatment. Dr. Khan should be fully aware that international law provides protection for medical facilities only so long as they are not used as a means of prosecuting war or any kind.
Dr. Khan also fails to recognise that the medical facilities that the Palestinians came to rely upon between 1967 and the late 1990's only came into existance due to the occupation and as a direct cause of that occupation. Dr. Khan demands much from Israeli academics and medical professionals, but he is strangely silent when it comes to demanding the same from their Palestinian counterparts. He condemns the Israelis for their failure to condemn the occupation, but as he cites that the occupation is 60 years old he intends it to mean everything from 1948 onward. Does he seriously expect Israeli nationals to demand the end to their own state? Finally yes there are Christians amongst the Palestinians but citing Said and Ashrawi is misplaced. Edward Said's claim to be a Palestinian are tenuous at best and Hanan Ashrawi is a now marginalised person closely associated with the gross corruption of the Arafat years. Anyone reading Ashrawis accounts of life in Palestine before 67 with some local knowledge is fully aware that she can only be a scoundrel or a fool, and she is certainly not the latter.
(23)
2007-11-26 08:49:18
Rob:
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what RSD seems to miss everytime is that if there was no occupation of palestine,there would be no need to resist.
no occupation no resistance.
(24)
2007-11-26 11:36:56
Paul M:
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Rob - no refusal to recognise Israel, no 'To those who want war we say Ahlan waSahalan' (Nasser), no expulsion of the UN, no closing of the Straits, no shelling of West Jerusalem... no 6 day war, no occupation.
No three noes of Khartoum, no rejection of Camp David 1979, no rejection of Clinton's plan, no endless shelling from Gaza... no occupation.
(25)
2007-11-26 12:00:36
Rob:
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Paulm all these events came after the occupation of palestine which started around the early part of the 20th century.
so no occupation no resistance.
(26)
2007-11-26 14:06:06
Delila:
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what RSD seems to miss everytime is that if there was no occupation of palestine,there would be no need to resist. — Robno occupation no resistance. What Rob seems to miss every time is the Arab attacks in 1948 and 1967. Due to the Arab abject and devastating failure to steal Israeli land they have ended-up with less than they started with. And refusal to negotiate Res 242 means they never took the chance to get it back. If Palestinians are 'occupied' thenm its their own fault.
(27)
2007-11-26 17:37:54
Delila:
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Paulm all these events came after the occupation of palestine which started around the early part of the 20th century. — Robso no occupation no resistance. There was NO occupation of Palestine at the turn of the 20th Century. There were Jews and Arabs and the League of Nationions granted Palestine as The Jewish National Home. Israel is some 60% of what it was given sovreignty over. Who stole the other 40%. How could Palestinians be occupied after the Mandate when they didn't even identify themselves until Arafat's Intifada after 1967. To state that you wish to end occupation under the logic you have used to define Palestine is actually just calling for Genocide of the Jews of that region. Your grasp of history and regional politics is tenuous and third hand from someone who heard it third hand.
(28)
2007-11-26 17:42:33
Paul M:
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Rob - you slyly use the word 'occupation' to suggest what you object to is Israel's presence in the West Bank, when in fact you object to Israel's existence. Any number of Muslim and Arab states of any size is fine, but one tiny Jewish state in the historic homeland of the Jewish people is a sin to be washed away. And the refusal of the Jewish nation to be annihilated is tantamount to Nazism.
Tell me, what do you do with the 6m so Jews in Israel when you end the 'occupation' i.e. when you end Israel? Clearly they will not be able to remain in situ, since at least 99% of the Jews in every Arab country have been ethnically cleansed, and as they were ethnically cleansed from their historic homes in the Old City and Hebron before the State of Israel came into existence. Will you let those from Muslim lands return to their homes and properties with full civic rights, not as dhimmis, which is how they were forced to live for centuries?
(29)
2007-11-26 17:52:41
RSD:
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Rob,
Which occupation are you refering to: post-1967, post-1948 Western Palestine, the occupation of Eastern Palestine by the Hashemite Monarchy, the Ottoman Occupation, the Mameluke Occupation, the Outremer~Crusader Occupation, the Arab Conquest Occupation, the Roman Occupation.... The only Occupation that I understand in the terms of modern international relations is that of post-67. Certainly Israel could withdraw unilaterally to the 1948 Green Line Ceasefire Boundary, but that would not provide for Palestinians to have access to health care. To expect the Israelis to return to the pre-67 position where they as Jews are denied access to their holy sites is a recipe for continuing suffering on both sides. To expect the Israelis to carry out the ethnic cleansing of Jews from east of the Green Line as happened in 1948 is wholly unrealistic. The entire post-Oslo pweriod has been a disaster for the Palestinians, a second Nakhba, caused in large part by the inadequacies of the Palestinian leadership. Saying this does not absolve the Israelis of culpability but it is the Palestinians that want and need a viable state of their own. The Israelis have potentially much to offer, but sadly the Palestinians have only one thing to trade against it and that is an end to violence.
(30)
2007-11-26 18:16:42
Rob:
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delila-delila some of us can read and recognise who was in occupation of palestine from the 20s to 1947.
so please do not belittle this blog with such outright lies. dear me so if palestinians are given their homes and lands back that will mean genocide of jews,only twisted logic can be used to come up with that assertion. one man one vote one nation.
(31)
2007-11-26 18:19:52
RSD:
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Delila - Israel was not awarded sovereignty of anything in 1917 / 19 / 47. There was no agreement. In the 1948 war the Palestinian AHC stated that all Jews would be deprived of their property until they demonstrated their anti-Zionist credentials. Unfortunately for the AHC in the subsequent civil war they were not able to exercise that policy except in Gaza, the West Bank and the Old City of Jerusalem. Israel in 1948 did not define its boundaries and never has. It has been the Int'l Community that has cited the 1949 ceasefire lines as being the defacto boundaries, but the UNSC acknowledged in 67 that they would need adjustment.
Rob - the LoN Mandate 1919 onward was assigned to the UK who took over the rule of the region and is the only political entity that can be said to have been in occupation. The LoN gave UK authority to rule the region for the period of the mandate and as such it had the legal right to distribute the assets of the region as it saw fit. Any issues regarding the management of the mandate should be directed to the UK. Looking at current ME politics, if a Palestinian state were to be created out of Israel and OT's without the Israelis agreeing to it - then there undoubtedly would be a civil war of almost unimaginable savagery. There is almost no likelihhod that there would be a genocide of Jews, Delila, as the Palestinian forces and the leadership are basically incompetent (as they were in 1948). What is likely to happen is that the Palestinians would be trapped between the Israelis and Jordanians (who also have litle love for the Palestinians and lots of reason to fear them.)in an explosion of violence.
(32)
2007-11-26 20:22:34
Delila:
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delila-delila some of us can read and recognise who was in occupation of palestine from the 20s to 1947. — Robso please do not belittle this blog with such outright lies. dear me so if palestinians are given their homes and lands back that will mean genocide of jews,only twisted logic can be used to come up with that assertion. one man one vote one nation. It was clear youy are a "Genocidist" because that is what the single state arguers are. They know it destroys the Jewish State and so argue for it. Israel already has one nation and the democracy of OMOV. The Palestinians have an anarchy dictatorship split over two states. They have the Stat of Gaza and The State of West Bank. How many states do the Palestinians need? They also have Egypt and Jordan to which they belong. Seems they have too many possible homes so why do they want to steal someone else's?
(33)
2007-11-26 20:38:17
Delila:
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Rob, — RSDWhich occupation are you refering to: post-1967, post-1948 Western Palestine, the occupation of Eastern Palestine by the Hashemite Monarchy, the Ottoman Occupation, the Mameluke Occupation, the Outremer~Crusader Occupation, the Arab Conquest Occupation, the Roman Occupation.... The only Occupation that I understand in the terms of modern international relations is that of post-67. Certainly Israel could withdraw unilaterally to the 1948 Green Line Ceasefire Boundary, but that would not provide for Palestinians to have access to health care. To expect the Israelis to return to the pre-67 position where they as Jews are denied access to their holy sites is a recipe for continuing suffering on both sides. To expect the Israelis to carry out the ethnic cleansing of Jews from east of the Green Line as happened in 1948 is wholly unrealistic. The entire post-Oslo pweriod has been a disaster for the Palestinians, a second Nakhba, caused in large part by the inadequacies of the Palestinian leadership. Saying this does not absolve the Israelis of culpability but it is the Palestinians that want and need a viable state of their own. The Israelis have potentially much to offer, but sadly the Palestinians have only one thing to trade against it and that is an end to violence. Rob clearly objects to ANY Jewish State. Quote:- "Paulm all these events came after the occupation of palestine which started around the early part of the 20th century." He means The Mandate for Palestine. He doesn't even realise there was no such thing as a Palestinian Nations. He doesn't know that the Arabs of that region belonged to Jordan and Egypt after 1948. Jewish Nation 2000+ years old Palestinian Nation - 40 years old (although not really a nation yet).
(34)
2007-11-26 20:41:11
RSD:
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Delila, I am afraid you are partially wrong. Only the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan awarded the Palestinians citizenship in the areas under its control. The Egyptians did not allow Palestinians the right to obtain Egyptian citzenship in Gaza. It was the policy of the Arab League to deny the Palestinian refugees the right to acquire citizenship in any of their countries. This was an illegal action by the Arab League in which they denied the Palestinians right afforded to every other refugee in the world. The object of this policy was to ensure that the Arab-Israeli conflict continued and that the Palestinians could be used as pawns in a cynical games of politics. Perhaps Israel shoud by int'l law have returned the West Bank to the Jordanians and this might have been a neat solutions, but the Jordanians didn't want it back. This was entirely due to the destabilising influence of Fatah. What Rob overlooks is the impact throughout the 20th C of the fratricidal violence prevalent in Palestinian politics which has inhibited political development and the capacity of the Palestinian nation to engage in effective dialogue and nation building.
That the Israelite peoples defined themselves as a nation in that highly political manifesto called the Chumash / Five Books of Moses does not entitle them to anything. Nation / Statehood as we understand it today it a relatively new occurrence. What entitles the Israelis to a state is their capacity to create it and maintain it, and nothing more. What validates the need for a Jewish state is the historic inability of both Christian and Muslim societies to create communities that consistently afford equality to all.
(35)
2007-11-27 08:51:46
Rob:
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i have heard a lot of codswallop but rsds comment ending with,what entitles israelis to a state is their abilty to create it and maintain it and what validates the need for a jewish state is the chrisitian and muslims societies inabilty to afford equality.
so the standard of equality is the nation built upon ethnic cleansing-murder-rape-torture and theft of another peoples homeland. i need not say more about the thinking behind this logic.
(36)
2007-11-27 11:19:11
RSD:
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Rob, thank you for your illuminating comments. However I would point out that in the conflict in question the Jews are not the only perpetrators of the crimes in question, and they have yet to establish any of them in a defined policy. Sadly the Palestinians and their allies have done so. A tad more humility and self-examination would go a long way.
Is it really any wonder that an abused nation like the Jews should become abusers themselves once they obtain power. Perhaps the only surprising thing is their relative lack of violence. BTW the only thing that validate the so-called Palestinian claim to the land is their historic ability to exclude others from power. It is easy to forget that prior to Tanzimat Jews of "palestine" were subject to extreme oppression, denial of basic human rights, rape, murder and ethnic cleansing, all carried out by the people that today claim to be Palestinians. Even after Tanzimat the Jews were subjected to outbreaks of violence - or do you believe that the massacres of Hebron and Jersualem did not happen?
(37)
2007-11-27 14:13:42
Rob:
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I would have thought a nation like the jews,who have been on the receiving end of abuse would be the last people on earth to become abusers.
they can see the pain and hurt that was caused to them so why would they abuse a people who had nothing to do with the abuse they suffered. out breaks of violence occur and have occured all over the world,there is a diffrence between outbreaks of violence and state sanctioned oppression. your comments are showing you to be a person who thinks on the lines of the chosen ones syndrome,your assertion that there has been a reltive lack of violence is a insult to the memory of the tens of thousands of dead palestinians and the millions living as refugees in camps longing to go back to their ancestral homes. what you claim happend centuries ago is happening today the rapes-torture-murder and ethnic cleansing ia taking place today against palestinians. so it seems you condone wanton violence against innocent people,as the saying goes,if you live by the sword you will die by the sword.
(38)
2007-11-27 15:18:50
RSD:
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Rob,
In theory one would think that an abused person or group would be more sensitive to abuse and watchful of their own behaviour, but regardless of where you look around the world this is not the case. When the powerless get power they have a tendency to abuse that power at an individual and collective level. IT is also a learnt behaviour and the abused often know nothing else but abuse. If the abused find their abuse denied or minimised, as Mizrachi Jews do, then they are likely to react angrily and excessively, and I would suggest the ready evidence of this can be seen in the aggressive behaviour of IDF forces, the majority of which are Arabs, towards Palestinians. I do not regard the Palestinian people as innocent anymore than the Israelis are innocent. They both have agency and have the capacity to direct the progress of their societies. To describe the Palestinians as innocent powerless victims is to infantilise them and undermine their social progression. The friends of the Palestinians must demand a more rational and intelligent range of responses from them. The Intifadeh's have been totally irrational responses which work to the Israelis strengths and do not exploit their weaknesses. Israel's fundamental weakness is its incapacity to deal with non-violent protest at any level. If Palestinians, instead of brandishing guns, had simply & peaceful walked up to IDF troops and handed them flowers, saying "Go home, we want no more than you do.. a home of our own." the IDF would have melted away and the Palestinians would have broken the will of the Israelis to maintain the occupation. Violence only encourages a nation that regards itself as having the toughest and most effective armed force in the region. If there is to be peace and progress both sides must admit to their own wrong doings, neither can hold up their hands and claims to be free of blood or guilt.
(39)
2007-11-28 09:27:06
Rob:
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please rsd do not belittle our intelligence,if palestinians would have walked upto idf soldiers with flowers,they would have melted away.
you can give flowers to a occupier for a 1000 years and he will still not leave until he is forced out.
(40)
2007-11-28 10:21:15
RSD:
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Whether anyone likes it or not the IDF is composed of ordinary men and women who have ordinary feelings and ordinary ambitions, just like you and me. The vast majority of them want to enjoy their lives and not to be called up to carry a gun and face violence.
Our media concentrates on the violence because it makes good TV, but it ignores the acts of kindness on both sides and the humanity of individuals. Also the Palestinians have become weaker and weaker. They have lost their jobs in Israel, they have lost free access to the Israeli health care system, they have lost access to the Israeli judiciary that protected them. Every act of violence results in the Israelis taking away another positive feature of their lives, and increases Israeli indifference to their plight. Violence has failed to achieve one positive thing from the Israelis. It is now time try something different - non-violence. Except it takes a lot more guts to try non-violence.
(41)
2007-11-28 16:15:10
Rob:
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What use is healthcare and a judiciary that is built upon your stolen homes and lands.
of course israel would love the palestinians to take humiliation and theft of their homes and lands and then say thank you very much sir. do you know what rsd i pray god forbid that you or your family go throgh what the palestinians have gone through and then be asked to y you should give flowers to your tormenters. so if they are so caring why do they carry a gun to occupy another mans homeland. i suppose when the boot is on the other foot you will consider occupation as a positive feature as well. a question for you i have time and time again stated that the best humane solution for all is one vote one man one nation,but zionists have a problem accepting this even though they gloat israel is a democracy.
(42)
2007-11-28 16:40:06
RSD:
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Rob,
Every adult citizen of the State of Israel has the vote regardless of ethnicity, religion, or gender. But the people in the former & current Occupied Territories are not Israeli citizens and thus it would be illegal by int'l law to give them the vote unless they by poplar vote chose to become Israeli citizens and the entities merged into a single state. The idea of a single state is proposed by various groups but they always see their favourite dominating the single state for their own advantage. The proposers of the single state never state how they would persuade the other community to accept their vision of a single state. So as someone who wants a single state dominated by the Palestinians, how do you suggest that the Israelis are persuaded to agree to this? How would you persuade the Israelis to surrender their community assets to a Palestinian leadership which is renown for being corrupt? How do you propose to persuade the Israelis to live under the current Palestinian constitution? How woud you persuade the IDF to follow orders from Fatah or Hamas? - The PNA areas are so inviting to Palestinians that Israeli Palestinians rejected a proposed idea that the borders might be redrawn so that they became part of Palestine. Once an independent Palestine is the West Bank & Gaza is established and demontsrates that it is competent and not a source of regional instability then Israel & Jordan might consider an open-border policy whereby defacto the orginal Palestinian Mandate territories are put back together. But this is a long way off and fantasising about a single state merely serves to delay an end to violence.
(43)
2007-11-29 13:25:32
shan:
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so its illegal to give them the vote but it is legal to forcibly occupy them using all forms oppression.
equality before the law of the land as practiced in nations all over the world,matters pertaining to jews to be judged by people versed in jewish law if both parties agree or national law of the land as agreed by the people.
(44)
2007-11-29 14:31:26
Rob:
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well said shan but it seems there will be no taker for my sugestion for one state for all.
i said this nearly a year ago to date no zionist has agreed to this just solution.
(45)
2007-11-29 16:31:18
RSD:
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Yes the peculiarities of international law allow for an nation state to occupy territory following the successful outcome of a war prior to there being a peace treaty. Yet the same law forbids the occupying nation to make any changes or integrate the captured territory into its own. Thus the UN condemned Israel in the 1970's for starting slum clearance in Gaza and encouraging new house building. The occupying nation has the right to assert control of the territories it has captured and is obliged to do so. The occupying nation should extend to the occupied the means by which its own citizens obtain redress against arms of the government, and so Palestinians can take the IDF to court because Israelis can take their government to court. However were Israel to deny their citizens the right to take the government to court then it would appropriate to deny that right to the Palestinians.
You overlook that Israel was attacked by Jordan from the West Bank despite evidence Israeli attempts to persuade Jordan not to attack, and thus at present Israel only occupies land captured in a clearly defensive response. Gaza has been evacuated and largely the situation is back to pre-June 67, thus legally Israel has complied with demands. The compounding problem in the Arab-Israeli conflict has been that the Arabs have denied Israels legitimacy and existance. Thus from their perspective Israel is not a nation state. Therefore as Israel does not exist to them it cannot invade as the borders do not exist, and it cannot be taken to court because that would provide it legitimacy. Int'l law only applies to nation states. Sadly equality before the law is not practiced all over the world in all lands and it is a relatively new concept in human existance. I am not sure what the relevance of Jewish law is as Israeli law is fundamentally the same as UK law as Israel didn't change it after 1948. Palestinian law is still in development and the absence of robust and indepedent judiciary and appellant system is worrying. Unless the Palestinians sort this out they will find it impossible to secured significant inward investment. Consider that the PNA is still dependent upon the Israelis to collect VAT & Customs Duty on their behalf, and thus Israel can withhold the moeny as and when it chooses.
(46)
2007-11-29 18:55:02
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Last summer the British Medical Journal published two articles in a "head-to-head" feature asking the question: Should we consider a boycott of Israeli academic institutions? Tom Hickey wrote the article supporting the motion, and Michael Baum against. As you can imagine this topic caused quite a stir in the BMJ forum which is still ongoing. One of the posts which stood out was by Dr Asad Khan which we've reproduced here for your perusal...










