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| How Mosque Leaders Destroyed Our Mothers |
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| Tuesday, 20 November 2007 | |
Just like the black mind was once taught to hate itself, we are now taught the same. Just as once the blacks were demonised and were brought to the west as nothing but animals to be traded or killed, so we too are now being demonised.Instead of Muslim leaders stepping up and waking our community up, organising it, protecting it, educating it …they act worse then any traitor in our history and keep us asleep and paralysed in the face of our own doom. Our best brains, our women, are not allowed to give anything back to our community, to have any control in the mosques, not even to step foot in it, because it may challenge their prejudice, so instead our women turn away from any action and become nothing but the slaves our enemies want them to become. One day they have sons, and they teach their sons to be as mentally dead as them. They have no way of bettering themselves, no way of gaining knowledge or improving the community, no way of raising either themselves or the community they live or even their own children because when they were young and had the desire to be better than what they were for the sake of Allah – they were denied this right by the criminals who run our mosques as if it was their personal property, as if it was their own private palace. These people treated our own sisters worse than they treated the Zionist MPs who they loved to shake hands with and boast about. All my life I have looked up to these men, thinking they were somehow good, that’s what my father taught me to do. And yet year after year I couldn’t help thinking how come these people never lift a finger whenever we are in trouble? I have never seen these people do anything for us bar open up their palaces to allow us to pray, and then ask us for money on the way out. I have never seen them do anything when the Media was demonising my community, I have never seem them do anything when war drums are being banged – it’s the Christians I see who are getting organised for us, I have never seen these men teach us a single thing about how to get effective when our MP who we elect goes to Parliament and says ‘lock them all up for as long as you want’ …in fact I have never seen them do anything for anyone ever … that is except for themselves. If there was any criminal worthy of being persecuted who has destroyed our community more then these Mosque mafias, I have never heard of them. No men on earth have done more to destroy us. The reason I say this is because they destroyed the Muslim mind, they destroyed the mind of our women, and they then destroyed the mind of their children. Those children are you and I. If you don’t believe me – look at your mind, reader – how many times a day does it tell you can’t do anything for the Muslims – you're not going to make any difference? How many times have you ever done anything for Islam or for your Muslim brother that you can honestly stand back and say ‘man, that’s ground-breaking, I served the Ummah today with my wealth and my life’? No, you have never said that – because your mind is too busy telling you – you can’t make a difference, too busy, too poor, too rich and too much to lose, too Muslim, too holy, too unholy….. When they destroyed the mind of your mother, they destroyed you. And by not allowing her, lost the opportunity to have a place and a position for your mother to come to defend the Muslims of the community, to give something back, to feel proud of being part of the committee of the house of Allah. And what did they leave her with? Nothing but kitchen sink, kids and bollywood movies to fill her mind to forget the dreams she had. I say to you oh Muslims – if you thought for one second how much these men have destroyed you, you would not rest till they are removed from ever doing this to anyone ever again. To discuss this or any topic and see how you can make a real difference, come to the MPACUK manchester branch (Next meeting will be announced on the website), call 0870 7605594 or email us on info@mpacuk.org           Readers have left 47 comments.
Paul M:
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It would indeed be an excellent thing if the Muslim community worked towards the emancipation and empowerment of its women, and if it campaigned against the appalling persecution of women in the Muslim world (driving apartheid in Saudi Arabia, honour killings in Jordan and Pakistan...) which are often carried out in the name of Islam.
It is a pity that this article suggests doing it in the atmosphere of paranoia and persecution - and makes sure it chucks in the old Zionist canard as well. All the other minority communities in this country - black, Hindu, Sikh, Jewish - are getting on with it, taking the fantastic opportunities which being here affords, moving forwards in education, in business, in the arts etc. If we can keep this crazy paranoia out of it AND emancipate Muslim women, then there is nothing to stop the Muslim community from doing the same instead of languishing at the bottom of the socio economic league by most counts. It is a shame that this is not the agenda MPAC is promoting and that it is so eager to accuse anyone of promoting it as an Uncle Tom.
(2)
2007-11-20 08:55:49
shan:
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I agree that mosques are failing in this regard as the standard of edcuation for males and females is found wanting.
educate a man and you educate him,educate a women and you educate a whole family,if the mother knows how to instill a way of being upright and how to fight for your rights it will be much better as the child will grow up with this. the masjids are failing to educate according to quran and sunnah.
(5)
2007-11-20 10:28:02
brother:
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Our best brains, our women, are not allowed to give anything back to our community, to have any control in the mosques, not even to step foot in it, because it may challenge their prejudice, so instead our women turn away from any action and become nothing but the slaves our enemies want them to become.
its not our enemies who want our womenfolks to become so, it is us, our strange interpretation of our religion and us itself who have forced our women in this situation. We have looked for answers in books when the answer is in our heart and common sense. Which is why we run to ask for fatwas from ignorant mullah's and do not ask Allah.
(6)
2007-11-20 12:09:40
YossiB:
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What an insult to the dignity of Black People to say:-
"Just like the black mind was once taught to hate itself, we are now taught the same. Just as once the blacks were demonised and were brought to the west as nothing but animals to be traded or killed, so we too are now being demonised" You suggest that "You" are forced to be here? You came out of free choice. You are NOT treated like 'animals'. You are referring the the African Slave Trade. Its a common theme at MPAC UK to blame everyone else for the plight of Muslims when all other minority groups (Hindus, Sikhs, Jews, Chinese, Greek, Turkish etc) all get on with it. They don't blame anyone else for their plight they simply do better.
(7)
2007-11-20 13:19:54
shan:
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It is insult to tell people that what is happening to you is your own making when everything about islam and muslims is potrayed negatively day in day out.
so do not patrionise us as to what we should think or feel. i am sure when the jews were at the receiving end of it during the early nazi period there were people similar to yossib saying look everyone else is getting on why do these jews blame others for their own problems. your hatred of islam and muslims comes out very quickly with the words you suggest you are forced to be here,no such thing has been stated in the article. muslims get on like everyone else pay their taxes and bills like everyone else and want to be treated as equal citizens,you do the crime you do the time.not your family or community.
(8)
2007-11-20 13:36:02
jeff:
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The claim that Muslims in Britain today are trested IN ANY WAY similar to the Jews of Nazi Germany ('early' or late ) is a revolting lie.
(9)
2007-11-20 13:58:00
shan:
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revolting lies are what people such as yourselves go around telling victims of hate crimes and harrasment that they are the problem.
check the records for the news media in the early days of nazis and see how they used the media to demonise jews as is being done today to muslims. check what the public at large though about muslims before labour came into power and then check what the publc thought about muslims before 7/7 and you will see a upsurge of negative thought in peoples minds,not because of any personal experience but because of a media campaign. so i say again do not patrionise us.
(10)
2007-11-20 14:31:27
YossiB:
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It is insult to tell people that what is happening to you is your own making when everything about islam and muslims is potrayed negatively day in day out. — shanso do not patrionise us as to what we should think or feel. i am sure when the jews were at the receiving end of it during the early nazi period there were people similar to yossib saying look everyone else is getting on why do these jews blame others for their own problems. your hatred of islam and muslims comes out very quickly with the words you suggest you are forced to be here,no such thing has been stated in the article. muslims get on like everyone else pay their taxes and bills like everyone else and want to be treated as equal citizens,you do the crime you do the time.not your family or community. The point about the Jews of Nazi Germany is that they did NOT go around whingeing about their life in Germany. They were actually well-integrated German citizens. It started when their success began to get blamed for teh economic collapse of Germany. Then they were attacked by state sanction where the Socialist Party Nazi Party started attacking them physically while the police watched on. There is ABSOLUTELY NO conection between the fate of Jews in Germany and the status of Muslims in the UK. None! Zero! No Jews demonstrated in Germany and issued threats about Jews suicide bombing the transport system. No Jews demanded changes to Foreign Policy. No Jews demanded "Judaic consideration" in State Schools. I will state again, and candidly, without retraction. Some of the Islamaphobia is whipped-up by political Jihad in the UK and by assertion of any rights for Muslims that are anti-cultural in terms of integration. For example, some insistence that halal meat be exclusively served in a school is anti-cultural. Insisting that schoolchildren wear hijab is anti-cultural (as Ed Hussain also points out). Its the political edges of Jihad that try to push the British culture too fast that causes the problem.
(11)
2007-11-20 14:37:34
YossiB:
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The claim that Muslims in Britain today are trested IN ANY WAY similar to the Jews of Nazi Germany ('early' or late ) is a revolting lie. — jeffJeff, I'm pleased you felt the need to say that too. Its another Islamic Jihad tactic to constantly refer to Nazi Germany and the fate of Jews. Its especially insulting that this is part of abuse of Jews. They get used to justify the fate of Muslims in the UK and then get used for anti-Semitic hate, often by the very people who want to use their fate in Nazi Germany to beat us all up over. Anyone who tries to use that comparison is a sick racist.
(12)
2007-11-20 14:41:02
jeff:
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And these groups claiming to work for the betterment of Muslims are no more than trouble-makers whose agenda is furthered by seeing, in this case, Muslims 'demoinised' as they like to put it. Take the infamous 'Dr' Bari's comments on life in the UK: designed to offend and whip up resentment against Muslims so that the sense of victimhood can be nurtured. (When asked what he best liked about the UK he said 'fish and chips' and 'cheeses;, not a word about freedom of speech, equal rights and freedom of worship). But this is going off topic, although the article did come up with all the ususal whines.
(13)
2007-11-20 14:54:04
shan:
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the sick racist is the one who says only the chosen ones can feel pain and hurt and to show how others are being treated like jews were is being a sick racist,truly takes the hatred of muslims to a new level.
this chosen one syndrome is getting out ofd hand,what next only the chosen ones can feel real pain and no one else can use the word pain to describe their feelings. as to whether jews had anythign to say about the foreign policy of germany. according to the nazis it was the jews who controlled the german economy and had withheld materials on the behest of the british so that germnay would be defeated. the reason given by the nazis was that the jews had been promised palestine for their services in helping britain,as i said before do not patrionise us. muslims ask for equality if a christian or jewish school can be state funded then so can muslim schools be. muslims have the right to request that they are given a choice of eating what they want,muslims are citzens of britain and have as much right as any christian-jew-hindu-atheist or sikh to ask for what they require to live their lives in the way they choose. instead of answering the points raised like a good trained zionist yossib asks more questions,sorry to dissapoint you but we are citizens and you need to keep that in mind when mouthing of your sick bigoted trouble making thoughts.
(14)
2007-11-20 15:51:06
jeff:
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shan, don't upset yourself. I don't think anyone is saying that Muslims cannot feel pain. The objections come when comparisons are made between Muslims in the UK today and the Jews of Germany. There is no comparison to be made. The only effect of that is to sicken all right-minded people. Muslims in Britain today are free to practise their religion, wear whatever clothes they like etc etc etc. Anti-terror laws may effect Muslims more than other groups but these are the times we live in. It is true that some quarters of the media get hysterical about 'Muslim' stories but The Sun or the Express cannot be compared with the 'Volkischer Beobachter'.
Also you said that 'according to the Nazis it was the Jews that controlled the German economy...'. It doesn't do your argument any good to be quoting the Nazis in your defence. Question: Why do Jews answer a question with another question? Answer: What, so a Jew can't ask a question?! That's a joke.
(15)
2007-11-20 16:32:40
shan:
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Its nice to know that the good cop bad cop scenario is alive and kicking.
BTW implying words on behalf of others is not good,the word used was why do zionists not answer the points raised but ask more questions,the word jews was not mentioned,there are good and bad people in all communities and i would never label jews with the same sticker. i have chosen my words carefully and if youy see them again,i said the early period of nazis rule, i am sure that until 1942 jews in europe did not think that the nazis would try to eliminate them. muslims are leading their everyday lives like everybody else,we do not want to sleep walk into a facist police state,prevention is better than cure.
(16)
2007-11-20 16:46:27
jeff:
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I think it's an exaggeration to suggest that we are anywhere close to becoming a fascist police state. However, it is true that this country is going to have to suspend some civil liberties in order to protect the greater majority from the destructive ways of some people - not only 'Muslim' extremists but also those liberals who think we should be morally free to do as we please (drink, drugs, lesbian children, sexual freedom etc etc etc). On manythings we may agree. Surely you as a Muslim (if you are) know that 'freedom' has been totally abused by many in this country?
(17)
2007-11-20 17:11:45
YossiB:
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the sick racist is the one who says only the chosen ones can feel pain and hurt and to show how others are being treated like jews were is being a sick racist,truly takes the hatred of muslims to a new level. — shanthis chosen one syndrome is getting out ofd hand,what next only the chosen ones can feel real pain and no one else can use the word pain to describe their feelings. as to whether jews had anythign to say about the foreign policy of germany. according to the nazis it was the jews who controlled the german economy and had withheld materials on the behest of the british so that germnay would be defeated. the reason given by the nazis was that the jews had been promised palestine for their services in helping britain,as i said before do not patrionise us. muslims ask for equality if a christian or jewish school can be state funded then so can muslim schools be. muslims have the right to request that they are given a choice of eating what they want,muslims are citzens of britain and have as much right as any christian-jew-hindu-atheist or sikh to ask for what they require to live their lives in the way they choose. instead of answering the points raised like a good trained zionist yossib asks more questions,sorry to dissapoint you but we are citizens and you need to keep that in mind when mouthing of your sick bigoted trouble making thoughts. Now stop ranting because when you do- you lose it! Its obvious from your other post above that you are someone who easily slips between "Jews" and "Zionists" as if they mean the same to you. So, we can be sure of the racist context in which you use the word "Zionist". I submit to MPAC Moderators that the comment I link to of yours is deeply Antisemitic and I am debating whether to report it to the police. You disparaging conflate Jews into "Chosen One's" and so are deliberately using all devices in which to make Anti-Semitic expression. You are trying to suggest that ONLY Jews believe they can "feel pain" and so use the false suggestion in order to deliver Anti-Semitic spleen. You also deliver the Anti-Semitic canard that Jews were responsible for their own Holocaust by presenting the (false) argument made by the Nazis. I leave it to MPAC UK whether they wish to sustain and give oxygen to such deeply Anti-Semitic views.
(18)
2007-11-20 17:27:33
YossiB:
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muslims ask for equality if a christian or jewish school can be state funded then so can muslim schools be. muslims have the right to request that they are given a choice of eating what they want,muslims are citzens of britain and have as much right as any christian-jew-hindu-atheist or sikh to ask for what they require to live their lives in the way they choose. Indeed you have EVERY right to request halal meat and British, non-Muslim, schoolparents have EVERY right to keep eating pork chops, ham, sausages etc. Those are traditional meats embedded in UK culture. I say no-one has the right to demand that such eating pleasures be denied by 100% substitution of halal meat. Jewish parents never demanded the substitution of Kosher meat for all non-Kosher meat. They would not dare insult people who have been eating pig meat for centuries. They would either take sandwiches or a kosher meal service would be independently provided. Have halal meat AS WELL AS non-halal, NOT instead of!
(19)
2007-11-20 17:35:03
YossiB:
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MODS:
For teh sake of good community reloations with Jews and for prevention of providing a portal for Anti-Semitic attacks would you please consider removing shan's post about German Jews being responsible for their own Holocaust by trying to ensure Britain beat them. Its clearly false. By leaving it there after being alerted you only seek to align yourself with the comment and something that can be used to denigrate MPAC UK.
(20)
2007-11-20 17:39:00
you muppet:
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It seems mpac will be disapointed, I met a sister yesteday who was still whining about your documentary, when I asked her does she go to the Msque and would she contribute to it, she said no. She had no interest and any one who does want to help women should get a life?!!!
well MPAC you got me to agree, but I'm a guy, where are the Muslim women who agree with you.
(21)
2007-11-20 18:11:44
shan:
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YOSSIB respect is a two way street and it is earned not given.
when you come on blogs and hurl insults and disparaging remarks about muslims,then do you think people should take your insults and not reply in the tone you used. anytime the truth is hard to bear zionists cry anti-semitism,i think with the new law about incitement to relgious hatred maybe yossib shoud check his own comments before lecturing others.
(22)
2007-11-20 18:36:57
Barabarossa:
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MODS: — YossiBFor teh sake of good community reloations with Jews and for prevention of providing a portal for Anti-Semitic attacks would you please consider removing shan's post about German Jews being responsible for their own Holocaust by trying to ensure Britain beat them. Its clearly false. By leaving it there after being alerted you only seek to align yourself with the comment and something that can be used to denigrate MPAC UK. I am afraid throughout this whole thread you have been posting insulting and racist posts.. if anything you should be banned from posting here or anywhere. Only a Zionist could be so racist and then complain about racism - how twisted!
(23)
2007-11-20 19:44:31
Samson:
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YOSSIB respect is a two way street and it is earned not given. — shanwhen you come on blogs and hurl insults and disparaging remarks about muslims,then do you think people should take your insults and not reply in the tone you used. anytime the truth is hard to bear zionists cry anti-semitism,i think with the new law about incitement to relgious hatred maybe yossib shoud check his own comments before lecturing others. I've tried to follow this thread of claim and counter claim. One thing I don't understand is why you say "anytime the truth is hard to bear zionists cry anti-semitism" Surely it is only Jews who would "cry Antisemitism" so why use the word Zionist when you mean Jew (as MLK once said)? Also, what "truth" was revealed that resulted in a claim of Antisemitism. Just the precis please!
(24)
2007-11-21 07:53:14
Syed:
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One thing I don't understand is why you say "anytime the truth is hard to bear zionists cry anti-semitism" Surely it is only Jews who would "cry Antisemitism" so why use the word Zionist when you mean Jew (as MLK once said)? — SamsonIn the same way, a Zionist doesn't have to be Jewish to identify if someone else is being anti-Semitic, but Zionists often throw around false allegations of anti-Semitism just to silence any debate that they don't approve of.
(25)
2007-11-21 10:08:47
jeff:
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One thing I don't understand is why you say "anytime the truth is hard to bear zionists cry anti-semitism" Surely it is only Jews who would "cry Antisemitism" so why use the word Zionist when you mean Jew (as MLK once said)? — SyedIn the same way, a Zionist doesn't have to be Jewish to identify if someone else is being anti-Semitic, but Zionists often throw around false allegations of anti-Semitism just to silence any debate that they don't approve of. ...but many hide their anti-semitism behind criticism of 'zionism' and Israel. This is undeniable Syed.
(26)
2007-11-21 10:52:44
Barbarossa:
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And manhy hide their islamaphobia behind their criticism of 'muslims' ...This is undeniable Jeff
(27)
2007-11-21 10:56:08
muppet???:
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...seems mpac will be disapointed, I met a sister yesteday who was still whining about your documentary, when I asked her does she go to the Msque and would she contribute to it, she said no. She had no interest and any one who does want to help women should get a life?!!! well MPAC you got me to agree, but I'm a guy, where are the Muslim women who agree with you. Come to our city and you'll see for yourself. Women within Muslim community are getting battered by Muslim husband who misintrepret Islam. Mothers getting banged up for murder because they fought back against a husband who would beat, abuse his wife. Youths are lost with cris identity and don't know who they are - and you come out with that rubbish and base it on ONE MUSLIM WOMAN'S opinion. Now, I would have understood if you said: "A Muslim woman did a survey from hundreds of Muslim women around the county and she found that the women said, they don't need help. No, their youths are fine, they all pray five times a day, they are solid Muslims, there is NO BREAKDOWN within family unity, there is no cultural rubbish that mess up our daughters for them to RUN AWAY. There is no FORCE MARRIAGES! No, our youths are not drug dealers, there is no roit, some have not lost their way." Then, I would agree with you and say, "there we go, the man didn't just talk nonsense, he actually got the right information, put the time in and got it to prove it once and for all." But....you didn't. Not only that, you went and talked to ONE MUSLIM WOMAN. And that to me, is someone who isn't here for a debate but holds something of past grudges of some program done a while back. By the way - the term "Muppet" (capitalized), coined in 1954 by Jim Henson for his puppet act, has unofficially become a slang term (lowercase) with different or even (informal) a stupid or weak person. So who are you calling lower class and weak? The weak are those who call themselves Muslims and start slanging others on how weak they are or lower class, go around, with blindfolds and say, "Oh, no, we don't need help, Muslim women need no help at all." I got a damn good mind, to get that video we did four months ago of 200 Muslim women who are pissed of with the mosques and who see these mosques play no role but become ghosts, builings filled with nothing more than politic. These things continue to exist because of women that say, "nothing wrong, we ok, everything in community is ok, women don't need help." She can speak for her damn self. She has no right to speak about other women!
(28)
2007-11-21 11:33:10
Rebekah Yisrael:
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We are dumping so much crap on the doorstep of our Muslim population and its becoming really scary.
Jewish journalist, Jonothan Freedland wrote: "Right now, we're getting it badly wrong - bombarding Muslims with pressure and prejudice, laying one social problem after another at their door. I try to imagine how I would feel if this rainstorm of headlines substituted the word "Jew" for "Muslim": Jews creating apartheid, Jews whose strange customs and costume should be banned. I wouldn't just feel frightened. I would be looking for my passport."
(29)
2007-11-21 11:54:41
jeff:
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Barbarossa:
Quite so, I agree. But it's true about those using anti-'zionism' to hide thier jew-hatred, isn't it? Sorry, I missed that part of your post.
(30)
2007-11-21 12:54:45
you muppet:
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[quote=muppet???]
.. Come to our city and you'll see for yourself. Women within Muslim community are getting battered by Muslim husband who misintrepret Islam. Mothers getting banged up for murder because they fought back against a husband who would beat, abuse his wife. Youths are lost with cris identity and don't know who they are - and you come out with that rubbish and base it on ONE MUSLIM WOMAN'S opinion. Now, I would have understood if you said: "A Muslim woman did a survey from hundreds of Muslim women around the county and she found that the women said, they don't need help. No, their youths are fine, they all pray five times a day, they are solid Muslims, there is NO BREAKDOWN within family unity, there is no cultural rubbish that mess up our daughters for them to RUN AWAY. There is no FORCE MARRIAGES! No, our youths are not drug dealers, there is no roit, some have not lost their way." Then, I would agree with you and say, "there we go, the man didn't just talk nonsense, he actually got the right information, put the time in and got it to prove it once and for all." But....you didn't. Not only that, you went and talked to ONE MUSLIM WOMAN. And that to me, is someone who isn't here for a debate but holds something of past grudges of some program done a while back. By the way - the term "Muppet" (capitalized), coined in 1954 by Jim Henson for his puppet act, has unofficially become a slang term (lowercase) with different or even (informal) a stupid or weak person. So who are you calling lower class and weak? The weak are those who call themselves Muslims and start slanging others on how weak they are or lower class, go around, with blindfolds and say, "Oh, no, we don't need help, Muslim women need no help at all." I got a damn good mind, to get that video we did four months ago of 200 Muslim women who are pissed of with the mosques and who see these mosques play no role but become ghosts, builings filled with nothing more than politic. These things continue to exist because of women that say, "nothing wrong, we ok, everything in community is ok, women don't need help." She can speak for her damn self. She has no right to speak about other women! thanks, a bit of a rant but I think you are violently agreeing with me. The big difference is that I dont see her as a lone example but as a aggregate of Muslim women. They talk big but do nothing to change their own situation. But say that to a muslim women and like as not get slammed. But the fact is, other then the girls at mpac who got attacked when they stood up for themselves, Muslim women have allowed men to marginalise them. I don't like, I wish it wasnt true, but it is. And you can blame the men, but in this case, I have to ask why is it our women have let this happen? surely some blame must be portioned on them.
(31)
2007-11-21 13:37:50
Samson:
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And manhy hide their islamaphobia behind their criticism of 'muslims' ...This is undeniable Jeff — BarbarossaNo! Its not the same logic. "criticism of Muslim" IS Islamaphobia. However, if you want to say it not then I assume that criticism of Muslims is just as valid as criticism of Christians and that is acceptable to you all as NOT being Islamaphobic.
(32)
2007-11-21 19:33:51
Barbarossa:
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So i take it then we can all criticise jews - and no one including you without claiming it is anti-semitism.
....thought not...one rule for us and another for you hey...hmmmm
(33)
2007-11-21 20:52:51
Samson:
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So i take it then we can all criticise jews - and no one including you without claiming it is anti-semitism. — Barbarossa....thought not...one rule for us and another for you hey...hmmmm Of course you are free to criticise Jews, individually or collectively as long as you don't do it on racially selective grounds or succumb to anti-Semitic stereotypes. In fact I think you should have greater freedom to criticise Judaism and I should have the same freedom to criticise Islam. But why should we do so for the sake of it.
(34)
2007-11-22 08:13:41
I Sidat:
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Every comment on this discussion/and other is racial so stop the hypocrisy.
Islam welcomes criticism no one has ever said no, only the ones with tiny knowledge have objected to this. the truth is anything about jews is taken as anti-semetic if you don't beleive this MPACUK had an article about this few weeks ago in regards to academics being named and shamed.
(35)
2007-11-23 03:55:37
Samson:
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Every comment on this discussion/and other is racial so stop the hypocrisy. — I SidatIslam welcomes criticism no one has ever said no, only the ones with tiny knowledge have objected to this. the truth is anything about jews is taken as anti-semetic if you don't beleive this MPACUK had an article about this few weeks ago in regards to academics being named and shamed. I see you are playing the Race card. Islam may welcome criticism but its our right to criticise and comment on all religions whether that religion welcomes it or not. Anyway, I don't think criticism is directed towards Islam it is directed toward what people say and do when they represent Muslims. We are always free to criticise actions which have political dimensions. The lie is that you can't criticise the actions of Jews without being called an Anti-Semite.
(36)
2007-11-23 08:08:03
jeff:
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I Sidat
Ooh! MPACUK had an article about it , did they? Oh well, it must be true! Like I said - read more widely, avoid the dark world of pre-scientific to which you seem headed. I have uyour welfare at heart.
(37)
2007-11-23 09:07:41
Barbarossa:
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I Sidat — jeffOoh! MPACUK had an article about it , did they? Oh well, it must be true! Like I said - read more widely, avoid the dark world of pre-scientific to which you seem headed. I have uyour welfare at heart. I agree avoid the dark racist world that Jeff and the first suicide bomber Sampson would like to take you. Carry on standing up against Racist aparthied in Israel, carry on agains the pre-scientific jewish extremists who cause islamaphobia within the UK and carry n standing up to make Britain a better place to live in. Well done Sidat for speaking the truth in the face of blatant Islamaphobes on this site. Sadly most muslims never speak up.
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2007-11-23 10:40:27
I Sidat:
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Samson if a muslim in america or anyone for that matter criticises Israel or aginst israel for anything they would loose thier jobs (look it up if you don't believe me There was a governor in one of the states can't remember who and Colin Powell) the truth is Israeli's can't take the criticism i have misquoted above and apologies because most jewish people do accept criticism and we get on fine its the small minded illeterate people in this world that think ten centuries back.
Criticism does not mean to defame or insult its about construing the text for a better understanding try it this way and will see a human try it the other way and we know your a biggot that's why i have never had a problem with many friends of different faiths.
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2007-11-23 15:06:04
Samson:
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I Sidat — BarbarossaOoh! MPACUK had an article about it , did they? Oh well, it must be true! Like I said - read more widely, avoid the dark world of pre-scientific to which you seem headed. I have uyour welfare at heart. I agree avoid the dark racist world that Jeff and the first suicide bomber Sampson would like to take you. Carry on standing up against Racist aparthied in Israel, carry on agains the pre-scientific jewish extremists who cause islamaphobia within the UK and carry n standing up to make Britain a better place to live in. Well done Sidat for speaking the truth in the face of blatant Islamaphobes on this site. Sadly most muslims never speak up. Sadly, some Muslims have your attitude and let the cliche's roll off the togue without engaging the brain. Its like you are full of macros. I note the propensity for calling anyone who disagrees an "Islamaphobe" or a "Zionist". What a bore! What an error!
(40)
2007-11-23 16:29:07
Samson:
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Samson if a muslim in america or anyone for that matter criticises Israel or aginst israel for anything they would loose thier jobs (look it up if you don't believe me There was a governor in one of the states can't remember who and Colin Powell) the truth is Israeli's can't take the criticism i have misquoted above and apologies because most jewish people do accept criticism and we get on fine its the small minded illeterate people in this world that think ten centuries back. — I SidatCriticism does not mean to defame or insult its about construing the text for a better understanding try it this way and will see a human try it the other way and we know your a biggot that's why i have never had a problem with many friends of different faiths. The fact that you believe you can get sacked for criticisng Israel shows that you ARE one of those small-minded people of a mindset ten centuries back.
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2007-11-23 16:31:14
Rob:
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the modern mindset says if you question the right of theives to steal and murder than you are a anti-semite.
that really is progressive thinking i have to say. never mind getting sacked for criticising israel in some countries aspiring leaders have to call themselves zionists and promise to protect israel before lobbies who support israel.
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2007-11-23 16:53:30
I Sidat:
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Samson prove me wrong, just prove me wrong you have been trying not just this thread but all other ones as well, i persume your jewish (if am right) and you only think the way the 'stupid' israelis think (many of them are decent human beings and they are de-famed becuase of people like you) try it my way put all differences aside look at all facts not from the media or the internet (except the academic ones) read the proper text such as text books and journals you will see a very differnt picture this is why i defend palestine, i support an israeli state because thousands of jewish people were dumped by fascist europeans in palestine (this is true, every academic book has this except the media). if you want i can send pdf files to you to see for yourself because many of these books or sites tend to charge you a lot so be careful.
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2007-11-24 03:50:04
Samson:
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Samson prove me wrong, just prove me wrong you have been trying not just this thread but all other ones as well, i persume your jewish (if am right) and you only think the way the 'stupid' israelis think (many of them are decent human beings and they are de-famed becuase of people like you) try it my way put all differences aside look at all facts not from the media or the internet (except the academic ones) read the proper text such as text books and journals you will see a very differnt picture this is why i defend palestine, i support an israeli state because thousands of jewish people were dumped by fascist europeans in palestine (this is true, every academic book has this except the media). if you want i can send pdf files to you to see for yourself because many of these books or sites tend to charge you a lot so be careful. — I SidatYou really must stop reading "Islamic Jihad for Dummies" and "The Middle East conflict for Dummies". No, you cannot assume I am Jewish, Hindu or a follower of Shinto. "Jewish people were dumped by fascist europeans in palestine" - (you will note that while people try that old canard of calling me a racist that I ALWAYS use capital letters when writing "Muslims" or "Islam". I hardly ever see any of you writing the word "Jews" with a capital "J".) In order to be 'dumped' you would have to have a process of forced transportation. Which 'forced transportation' do you refer to? (you won't have an answer) And you are telling us there are these secret books that no-one in the Media has ever seen or, hence, broadcast. Hey! You've read them!! Perhaps you could give us a title. (there won't be an answer) I love this "if you want i can send pdf files to you to see for yourself because many of these books or sites tend to charge you a lot so be careful" you mean I have to PAY to read a pack of lies??? Boy were YOU duped!!! I seriously suggest you start to get your head back instead of the poison you've been feeding yourself. BTW the area called Palestinie is Ancient Israel renamed by the Romans in order to complete their ethnic cleansing of the Jews from that region. Yes, Jews WOULD go home to Palestine.
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2007-11-24 11:36:26
I Sidat:
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Firstly i am quite insulted that you assume i am reading some form of twisted version of my religion, no am not reading stupidity am reading the truth books and articles written by non-muslims.
am not even going to answer your next point because it has no foundation. Lastly know i will send you pdf files from these websites it not my fault if they charge that price hey maybe you could complain and get them to lower it to 50p its economically viable for some people.
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2007-11-24 18:00:16
Barbarossa:
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Samson prove me wrong, just prove me wrong you have been trying not just this thread but all other ones as well, i persume your jewish (if am right) and you only think the way the 'stupid' israelis think (many of them are decent human beings and they are de-famed becuase of people like you) try it my way put all differences aside look at all facts not from the media or the internet (except the academic ones) read the proper text such as text books and journals you will see a very differnt picture this is why i defend palestine, i support an israeli state because thousands of jewish people were dumped by fascist europeans in palestine (this is true, every academic book has this except the media). if you want i can send pdf files to you to see for yourself because many of these books or sites tend to charge you a lot so be careful. — SamsonYou really must stop reading "Islamic Jihad for Dummies" and "The Middle East conflict for Dummies". No, you cannot assume I am Jewish, Hindu or a follower of Shinto. "Jewish people were dumped by fascist europeans in palestine" - (you will note that while people try that old canard of calling me a racist that I ALWAYS use capital letters when writing "Muslims" or "Islam". I hardly ever see any of you writing the word "Jews" with a capital "J".) In order to be 'dumped' you would have to have a process of forced transportation. Which 'forced transportation' do you refer to? (you won't have an answer) And you are telling us there are these secret books that no-one in the Media has ever seen or, hence, broadcast. Hey! You've read them!! Perhaps you could give us a title. (there won't be an answer) I love this "if you want i can send pdf files to you to see for yourself because many of these books or sites tend to charge you a lot so be careful" you mean I have to PAY to read a pack of lies??? Boy were YOU duped!!! I seriously suggest you start to get your head back instead of the poison you've been feeding yourself. BTW the area called Palestinie is Ancient Israel renamed by the Romans in order to complete their ethnic cleansing of the Jews from that region. Yes, Jews WOULD go home to Palestine. My God - how lies trip off your tongue. Historically Jews only had the land of Israel for a period of hundred years or so, please note they conquered the land of the cananites and philistines (modern day Palestinians). How can to push that trash on here and think no one will catch you out. Sampson your a Zionist and trying to remain hidden here is pretty hard, because your sooo obvious about it. Stop lying, stop trying to act like the worst undercover Zionist in the UK - people are laughing at you and most of them are Muslims!
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2007-11-24 21:08:23
Delila:
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Quote:- "My God - how lies trip off your tongue. Historically Jews only had the land of Israel for a period of hundred years or so"
You must stop listening to those radical Islamic preachers and their Taqiyya. Potted History of Israel:- "The name Israel derives from the name given to Jacob (see Old Testament). So, the names Israel, Israeli or Jewish refer to people of the same origin. The descendants of Abraham crystallized into a nation at about 1300 BCE after their Exodus from Egypt under the leadership of Moses (Moshe in Hebrew). The people of modern day Israel share the same language and culture shaped by the Jewish heritage and religion passed through generations starting with the founding father Abraham (ca. 1800 BCE). Thus, Jews have had continuous presence in the land of Israel for the past 3,300 years. The rule of Israelites in the land of Israel starts with the conquests of Joshua (ca. 1250 BCE). The period from 1000-587 BCE is known as the "Period of the Kings". The most noteworthy kings were King David (1010-970 BCE), who made Jerusalem the Capital of Israel, and his son Solomon (Shlomo, 970-931 BCE), who built the first Temple in Jerusalem as prescribed in the Tanach (Old Testament). In 587 BCE, Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar's army captured Jerusalem, destroyed the Temple, and exiled the Jews to Babylon (modern day Iraq). The year 587 BCE marks a turning point in the history of the region. From this year onwards, the region was ruled or controlled by a succession of superpower empires of the time in the following order: Babylonian, Persian, Greek Hellenistic, Roman and Byzantine Empires, Islamic and Christian crusaders, Ottoman " History shows 3,300 years - you think its a few hundred. OK, only 33 hundred. Denial of Israel's heritage is a bit like Holocaust Denial and amounts to ethnic cleansing of history. As for Samson's answer - we await!
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2007-11-26 21:06:47
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