| Do the Saudis own Eid? |
|
|
| Friday, 12 October 2007 | |
|
Either the astronomical calculations (www.moonsighting.com) are wrong or someone is taking the Muslims for a ride.
I'm a mathematician, but you don't have to be mathematician to know that to prove something wrong you just need one example of failure. Proving something right on the other hand is much more difficult. Astronomical calculations about moon visibility may have never been wrong yet but it doesn't mean they'll be right this time.
It's always Saudi that declares they've seen the moon before the calculations say possible. If that is so then the Saudis should be sharing this information with the astronomical societies all around the world so they can adjust their calculations.
But personally I think something more sinister is happening in the Saudi ministry of moonsighting. If the moon has truly been sighted then it should be easy to photograph the sighting using camera technology for the world to see. But we don't get that. Muslims of this country are overwhelmingly from the sub-continent, have a high reverence for the holy land and everything associated with it. A decision comes from there is taken to be gospel and not to be faulted or questioned. The Saudis are using this authority to export their version of Islam with complete disregard of one of the five fundamentals of the religion and the millions of people around the globe.
It takes me back to one of the Dispatches documentaries where the leader of the MCB was questioned about inviting a Saudi cleric to East London Mosque after the cleric was recorded inciting hatred against the West in Arabic sermons in Saudi. The truth is the people who invited the cleric, the Imam of the holy mosque in Mecca, didn't know anything about the teaching he propagates to his listeners. The Muslim populous of this country only revere this personality for one reason and one reason only - he leads the prayer in the holiest place in Islam. They, by no means share the religious interpretations of the Saudis, they don't even understand the lingo.
You might say that I'm trusting the calculations over people without reason. But I have perfectly good reason for not trusting the Saudis... I spent some time in the deserts of the Sudan, where the night sky is clear and it's a habit for the people there to seek out the new moon every month. I recall one Eid when I was there, the capital Khartoum celebrated Eid on one day (following Saudi) and we celebrated Eid the day after, after we saw the moon. So in that instance, Saudi authorities were definitely misleading the Muslim world (or at least those that are stupid enough to trust them).
These Saudis authorities are, whether intentionally or otherwise, destroying Islam and exporting this distruction to the rest of the Muslim world. All these Muslims in this country who accuse the Saudi wahhabis of exporting distorted Islam with the oil money do have a case.
All these mosques and Muslim community leaders that associate themselves with the Saudis without question should be very careful so as not to be complicit in the destruction of this religion that our beloved prophet, the mercy to the worlds, brought to us.
May Allah forgive our mistakes and protect His religion. Readers have left 24 comments.
SHAHIN:
Quote
EID MUBARRAK TO ALL MY BROTHERS & SISTERS!
This problem stated above can only be resolved via ONE SOLUTION. That is under the single leadership that Islam demands from all the believers. It is by appointing our Khaleefah/Sultan back to being our shepherd over the Muslims. Not the Bangladeshis like myself, or Pakistanis, or Somalians, or Arabs etc. but for the whole Ummah. The Solution to this problem is simple. Muslim Countries need to unite and be ruled by one system, the Khilafah Rashidah. This should be attained following the Prophet's (saw) Method of establishing the first Islamic State in Madinah. Jazak-Allah Khair. Your Brother in Islam, SHAHIN. www.yspyouth.blogspot.com
(1)
2007-10-13 02:52:32
nicholas:
Quote
Indeed this deliberate misleading of the ummah is a great cause for concern.
Allahu alim. Eid Mubarak everyone!
(2)
2007-10-13 06:04:10
Tahir:
Quote
I do not understand why Eid is celebrated when Saudi say so considering we live in the UK. How hard is it to observe the moon in the same country in which you live? Let's all pray Maghrib namaaz when the sun sets in Saudi too then!
(3)
2007-10-13 06:57:08
Tahira:
Quote
What I want to know is WHY the leadership of our mosques cannot get together and come to a consensus so that at least everyone in the country would celebrate Eid on the same day? Surely our unity should outweigh differences of opinion on this? I'm planning to write to all my local mosques this week to ask them about this, and what plans they have to improve the situation for future years insh'Allah. I'll let MPACUK know how I get on...
Eid Mubarak!
(4)
2007-10-13 08:49:34
dude:
Quote
What I want to know is WHY the leadership of our mosques cannot get together and come to a consensus so that at least everyone in the country would celebrate Eid on the same day? — TahiraThere quite a few factors involved - 1 is the use of an observertory, the people who dont use it (i.e follow anoher country) say moon sighting has to be with eyes no observertory (where will poor people in poor countries get an observertory from?) Both parties need to get together and come up with a compremise.
(6)
2007-10-13 11:00:23
bigman:
Quote
we the muslims are a laughing stock of the world how can we as muslims stand united as one ummah when we cant even have are eid at the same time in this country come on let stand up and have a look what this is doing to the ummah and work together to show the world the we are united as one ummah. eid mubarak to all brothers and sisters in this country and round the world.
(7)
2007-10-13 12:19:39
shaheenk:
Quote
Salaams to all ,
These are excactly the sentiments I was feeling when the news came in on Eid, I felt that there was no accounting or questioning on the matter being done, we talk about a unity , but we are devidedin our own religion. We will never be able to be ruled by 1 person or 1 system because each sect chooses to brainwash us into believcing that their system and teachings are correct. We have been give the so many differing versions without our leaders sitting down and finding compromise that we make a mockery of ouw own religion, we kill each other based on school of thoughts, we judge each other and refute the claims of other sects because we feel that our leaders know more then we do. When in fact it is every Muslims DUTY to aquire knowldege so that a decision for oneself could be made, how many of us bother to find out about why another sect believed different to what we FEEL is right. Without this we cannot make a decsion on what is right or wrong. Personally I do not see how Eid could have been called on Friday , but Allah knows best , I ask him for forgivness if I am wrong and fasted on Eid day, i also ask him for forgiveness for those who choose to blindly follow. WE NEED STRONG LEADERSHIP, without this we will never find unity. Leaders who are intellegent enough to understand the various schools of thougth and are willing to let us know about them. Insha-allah I make dua that we will overcome this .
(8)
2007-10-13 13:27:52
Saj:
Quote
ENOUGH! ENOUGH! ENOUGH! It is time for the Muslim youth of the UK to DEMAND that their local Muslim community and religious leaders meet and decide on a unified Eid and how to reach that decision within the bounds of Sharia.
The youth are the future and we have a right to demand from our leaders that they get their act together. The fact is our leaders through nationalism, ignorance, pride and competition for status are deciding on differing Eid days. All the Muslim youth male and female from the ages of 13 to 35 must launch a campaign write an open letter together with a national petition and demand that the Muslim leaders meet and deicide on one Eid in the UK and then one Eid in Europe we do not need the Saudis or and other Muslim nation to decide for us we now have enough religiously qualified people and resources to decide on Eid and furthermore once this committee is established and any leader who goes against the decision the youth must be prepared to boycott and expose those individuals as dividers of the community. MPACUK is in a good position to start this campaign I am ready to donate £100 for this cause! MUSILM YOUTH 13-35 FOR A UNITED EID!
(9)
2007-10-13 15:50:36
mohsin:
Quote
Eid Mubrak
The community which cant unite, will be exploited. The community which cant unite, will experience humiliation. The community which cant focus on the same objective,simultaneously with other communities will be isloated and weakened. Disgrace the Muslims in the UK. How can we preach others about our deen and when we ourselves, cant EVEN UNITE on the day of EID. This is a very important and serious issue. We need MEASURES, We need strong decisive Muslims, whom will eliminate those from the positions who divide the community. Maybe Perhaps we should learn from the leadership strategies of others communities in how to remain united. Perhaps George Bush am sure, can give us a few lessons on "United WE STAND"/ Losers !! MB
(10)
2007-10-13 16:56:23
shakil:
Quote
Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger. There is misunderstanding with connecting unified fasting and `Eid with the unity of the Ummah. In fact, having different opinions on fasting according to the sighting or not sighting of the moon is part of the mercy of this Shari'ah. It even happened at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him.) The meaning of the unity of the Ummah is beyond fasting or having `Eid in one day. We as Muslims need to study and analyze what the real unity of the Ummah and the factors leading to this. Surat Aal-`Imran can be studied to see how Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) united the Ummah at his time. The unity of the Ummah starts by having a unified religious reference of the Qur'an and Sunnah and following the teachings of Islam. It is then strengthened by keeping the Islamic identity and the values that we are far away from today. The unity of the Ummah is restored by bringing back to life the great principles of justice, kindness, mercy, forgiveness, tolerance, freedom, etc. If these major principles of Islam are restored to our life, the issue of the moon will never take that time to solve. Allah Almighty knows best
(11)
2007-10-13 20:21:00
shakil:
Quote
part one:
These are the type of question arrive every time when Ramadan comes or the day of Arafah comes Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked: what if the day of ‘Arafah is different because of the moon being sighted at different times in different countries? Should we fast according to the moon sighting in the country where we are or according to the moon sighting in al-Haramayn (the two Holy Sanctuaries)? He replied: This is based on a difference of opinion among the scholars: Is there only one moon sighting for the whole world or does it vary according to when the moon rises in different places? The correct view is that it varies according to when the moon rises in different places. For example, if the moon is sighted in Makkah, and today is the ninth, and it is sighted elsewhere one day before Makkah, and the day of ‘Arafah in Makkah is the tenth for them, it is not permissible for them to fast on this day because it is Eid. Similarly if it so happens that they sight the moon after Makkah, and the 9th in Makkah is the 8th for them, then they should fast the day that is the 9th for them, which is the 10th in Makkah. This is the correct view, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When you see it (the new moon) fast and when you see it break your fast.” Those who did not see the moon in their own location have not seen it. Just as people are unanimously agreed that the times for dawn and sunset vary according to their own location, so too the months are also worked out by location, just like the daily timings. Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 20. And he (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about some people who worked in the Saudi embassy in a foreign country, who said that they were having a problem concerning the fast of Ramadaan and the fast on the day of ‘Arafah. The brothers there had split into three groups: One group said: we will fast with Saudi and break the fast with Saudi. Another group said: we will fast with the country where we are living and break the fast with them. The last group said: we will fast Ramadaan with the country where we are living, but we will fast the day of ‘Arafah with Saudi. They asked the Shaykh to provide them with a detailed answer concerning the Ramadaan fast and fasting the day of ‘Arafah, whilst noting that for the past five years, in the country where they were living neither Ramadaan nor the day of ‘Arafah had been observed on the same days as in Saudi; their Ramadaan started one or two days after it had been announced in Saudi, and sometimes three days after. He replied: In the name of Allaah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) differed concerning the issue when the moon is sighted in one part of the Muslim world and not in another: do all the Muslims have to act on the basis of that, or only those who sighted it and the people who live in the same region, or only those who sighted it and the people who live under the same government? There are many different points of view. The most correct view is that the matter should be referred to those who have knowledge of it. If the moon rises at the same point for two countries they become like one country, so if it is sighted in one of them that ruling applies to the other. But if the rising points differ, then each country has its own ruling. This is the view favoured by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him); this is the apparent meaning of the texts of the Qur’aan and Sunnah and what is implied by analogy.
(12)
2007-10-13 20:25:45
shakil:
Quote
part two
In the Qur’aan it says (interpretation of the meaning): “So whoever of you sights (the crescent on the first night of) the month (of Ramadan i.e. is present at his home), he must observe Sawm (fasts) that month, and whoever is ill or on a journey, the same number [of days which one did not observe Sawm (fasts) must be made up] from other days. Allaah intends for you ease, and He does not want to make things difficult for you. (He wants that you) must complete the same number (of days), and that you must magnify Allaah [i.e. to say Takbeer (Allaahu Akbar: Allaah is the Most Great)] for having guided you so that you may be grateful to Him” [al-Baqarah 2:185] What is implied by this verse is that whoever does not see it is not obliged to fast. In the Sunnah, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When you see it (the new moon) then fast, and when you see it, break your fast.” What is implied by this hadeeth is that if we did not see it we are not obliged to fast or to break the fast. With regard to analogy, the times for starting and ending the fast each day should be worked out in each country on its own, according to the local times of sunrise and sunset. This is a point on which there is scholarly consensus. So you see the people in east Asia starting their fast before the people of west Asia, and breaking their fast before them, because dawn breaks for the former before the latter, and the sun sets for the former before the latter. Once this is established with regard to the times for starting and ending the daily fast, it also applies to the start and end of the monthly fast. There is no difference between them. But if many regions come under the same government, and the ruler gives the command for the fast to start or end, then his command must be followed, because this is a matter of scholarly dispute but the command of the ruler dispels that dispute. Based on the above, you should fast and break your fast along with the people of the country where you are living, whether that is in accordance with your country of origin or not. Similarly on the day of ‘Arafah you should follow the country where you are living. by Muhammad al-Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen, 28/8/1420 AH. Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 19.
(13)
2007-10-13 20:26:38
Karlos:
Quote
Let's face it, no two locations on the same physical longitude that are also within the range of latitudes for which the moon is readily visible can possibly differ on their date of sighting the new moon. It's not physically possible. Also, those who don't trust calculation perhaps fail to realise that there are no secrets left to discover in the orbital mechanics of the moon. It's possible to predict it with almost arbitary levels of precision for any location on Earth. Of course, direct observation is Sunnah, but calculation should be trusted to work out when to start looking for any given place.
Locations at different longitudes will naturally observe the moon at different times. As a consequence, two countries that are relatively nearby but otherwise on opposite sides of the international date line can't help observing the moon on different dates (yet actually at the same absolute physical time) as it crosses their horizon. Therefore, Eid shouldn't ever fall on more than 2 consecutive days, and it should fall on the same date for all places on any given longitude. If we want Eid to fall absolutely on one date for the whole Ummah, then we need to pick a location as a point of reference and stick with that. There aren't any other options.
(14)
2007-10-15 00:15:28
family seperated...:
Quote
Though Eid came, and I'm happy in rejoicing it - it has caused some problems within family. My family is not just one culture but Arab and Pakistani. I so wanted to celebrate Eid together as one family for the children sake.
But, the mosque one part of family go to didn't celebrate Eid on same day. It was a right mess up. I am really upset and so the children. I can't believe our communities can come together as one. Personally, this is a small step but since this can't be done, I really have no faith anymore in the mosques, no matter what community one is in. Just once in my damn entire life, I like it we all agree one thing but the pathetic stance on each side, really shows that our community, our Ummah can't even solve this. Never mind peace in the world.
(15)
2007-10-15 07:23:48
I.D.:
Quote
VERY GOOD POINTS OF VIEW BUT AS ALWAYS IT COMES DOWN TO ONE THING CONTROL! THE WAHABI SECT CLAIM THAT ALL OTHER SECTS BESIDE THEM ARE BLIND FOLLOWERS BUT THEY THEMSELVES FOLLOW THE ARAB LEADERS BLINDLY AS THEY ARE AND ALWAYS WILL BE HYPOCRITES. I FOLLOW THE FOUR MADHABS AND CANT SEE HOW ANYONE WITH A SINGLE BRAINCELL CAN OR IS ABLE TO DECYPHER AND INTREPRET THE QURAN AND HADITH JUST BY GOING IT ALONE. IF YOU HAVE A MEDICAL CONDITION YOU WILL ALWAYS GO TO THE DOCTOR BUT NOT THE WAHABIS THEY WILL GET A PHD THEN FIND A CURE FOR THEMSELVES RIGHT !!!!!
(16)
2007-10-15 23:38:59
abuzainab:
Quote
Its another unfortunate event to note. All the mosqu leaders signed an agreement to have Eid on Saturday, as soon as the Saudis announced for Friday the Deobandis wnet against the agrrement and did Eid on Friday. They were a minority and once again they managed to divide the Muslim community.
The problem is not with the Saudis the problem is the people in UK who like sheep wish to follow the Saudis. I blame the Deobandis who do not take their fiqh from Saudi but are the blind, dumb and deaf followers of the Saudis when it comes to Eid and Ramadhan.
(17)
2007-10-16 10:46:39
Yes&No:
Quote
Those who celebrated Eid on Saturday, on what basis did you have your Eid on that day?!
(18)
2007-10-16 15:04:15
Guest:
Quote
Those who celebrated Eid on Saturday, on what basis did you have your Eid on that day?! — Yes&No
(19)
2007-10-16 15:41:43
Karlos:
Quote
How do you know that it was below the horizon?! — Yes&NoIt's very simple to ascertain mathematically if you are familiar with the orbital mechanics of the Moon and with geometry in general. As I said above, there aren't any great mysteries to the former. For example, laser beams have been reflected off prismatic reflectors left there from the Apollo space program, you can't hit something that small from over a third of a million km away without knowing the orbital parameters to a silly degree of precision. It's relatively straightforward to predict when the moon will be above/below one's local horizon with such knowledge. Hence if we know when the moon ought to be visible from such calculations, we should start physically looking for it, say a day or two beforehand and then announce it for sure the first night it is directly visible, to satisfy the Sunnah. However, I defy anybody to observe something totally occluded by the limb of the planet they are standing on. It's like my trying to observe the Eiffel tower from my bedroom. I know when the sun should hit it, but that doesn't mean I can observe it. Now, the new moon was actually visible from the 11th, but only for people living in the tip of South America and a few south pacific islands. That's the opposite side of the equator to here, there's not a chance it was visible anywhere in Europe, or even the Middle East for that matter, then.
(21)
2007-10-17 21:59:00
conclusion:
Quote
About 20 years ago a group of prominent ulema sat down and discussed this issue, following morrocco etc was put on the table, they concluded that saudi was the best option. Do a google search and you will find the info. When a standard then why change it??
(22)
2007-10-17 22:13:20
muzzylogic:
Quote
About 20 years ago a group of prominent ulema sat down and discussed this issue, following morrocco etc was put on the table, they concluded that saudi was the best option. Do a google search and you will find the info. When a standard then why change it?? — conclusionFor a start, you are resting on the assumption that Saudi will always be correct. Which evidently is not the case. Would you pray using the times in Saudi, or would you choose times based on your own locality? It is exactly the same issue in minature. We live on a (almost) spherical planet, it will never be the same date for the whole world at the same physical instant. If you must pick a single location to base it on, it should really be the farthest eastern place you can find closest to the international date line so that everybody else will be behind them in timezone meaning that there's never any danger someone has already started their fast only to have some guy 12 hours behind decide it's already Eid.
(23)
2007-10-17 23:08:43
riya:
Quote
I do not understand why Eid is celebrated when Saudi say so considering we live in the UK. How hard is it to observe the moon in the same country in which you live? Let's all pray Maghrib namaaz when the sun sets in Saudi too then! — TahirMaybe because that is where islam started from and the fact is that we can`t see the moon in our country in ramadan, and in islam according to hadith it says we should follow the nearest islamic country if they`ve seen the moon for eid.Saudi is the closest islamic country.So thats why.
(24)
2007-11-06 14:12:21
|


















