| Israelis Enjoy Torturing Palestinians |
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| Monday, 22 October 2007 | |
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Interviewing 18 Israeli soldiers and three officers, Yishai-Karin heard confessions of brutal assaults troops routinely commit against Palestinians. All of the interviewees were among those serving with her at an army base in Rafah in the Gaza Strip. After finishing service, Yishai-Karin spent seven years investigating soldiers' abuse of Palestinians during the first intifada in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Some of the interviews soldiers revealed how they enjoyed the intoxication of power when they abuse helpless Palestinians. "It's like a drug," one solider told her. "If I don't go into Rafah and if there isn't some kind of riot once in some week, I go nuts." God For some of the Israeli soldiers, bashing the Palestinians made them feel important. "You feel that you are the law. You are the law. You are the one who decides," another soldier said. "As though from the moment you leave the place that is called Eretz Yisrael [Israel] and go through the Erez checkpoint into the Gaza Strip, you are the law. You are God." With such pleasure in power, soldiers said, nothing was prohibited. One soldier described an incident when a Palestinian passer-by was shot for no fault of his. "We were in a weapons carrier when this guy, around 25, passed by in the street and, just like that, for no reason - he didn't throw a stone, did nothing - bang, a bullet in the stomach, he shot him in the stomach and the guy is dying on the pavement and we keep going, apathetic," he recalled. "No one gave him a second look." A fourth soldier revealed how he had "no problem" abusing Palestinian women in particular, recalling when he brutally beat one woman for throwing a clog on him. "I kicked her here [pointing to the crotch], I broke everything there. She can't have children." Another woman's fault was to spat at him. "I gave her the rifle butt in the face. She doesn't have what to spit with any more." Culture Yishai-Karin found that the soldiers engage in violence against Palestinians from as early as their first weeks of basic training. Soldiers described how their commanders encouraged brutality against helpless Palestinians and even endorsed it. They recalled how one of their commanders began the first days of his leadership with beating up a four-year-old Palestinian child. "So we do a first patrol with him. It's 6am, Rafah is under curfew, there isn't so much as a dog in the streets. Only a little boy of four playing in the sand," one soldier remembers. "He is building a castle in his yard." Once spotting his target, the Israeli commander suddenly started running with his soldiers around him. "He grabbed the boy. I am a degenerate if I am not telling you the truth. He broke his hand here at the wrist, broke his leg here. And started to stomp on his stomach, three times, and left," said the soldier. "We are all there, jaws dropping, looking at him in shock. "The next day I go out with him on another patrol, and the soldiers are already starting to do the same thing." The report findings, which recently found they way to mainstream Israeli media, sent shock waves in Israel, where new recruits are usually taught they are joining "the most ethical army in the world". Israeli author David Grossman said Yishai-Karin's research is not about individuals but rather about hundreds and thousands "who carried out a kind of 'privatization' of a vast and general evil." Erlik Alhanan, the public face of Israeli refuseniks, has said that the number of soldiers who defy army orders to serve in the occupied territories is on the rise due to illegal army practices. At least 80 percent of reservists who refuse to do their military service in the occupied Palestinian territories have lost confidence in the declared moral principles of the Israeli army. Source: IslamOnline           Readers have left 29 comments.
George:
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Uncomfortable reading. But this is an exception - not the norm. Credit to Israeli society and freedom that these things can be exposed. And without making any moral equivalence - this stuff goes on wherever there is occupation.
(1)
2007-10-22 09:49:46
Taz:
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Zioinism is a disgusting racist ideology that justifies anything in it's names.
@ George. Your weasle words won't work here I'm afraid. Run along back to hole you crawled out of.
(2)
2007-10-22 12:00:02
azaad:
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George, I agree: it is a credit to Israeli society that this is out in the open. At last Israelis are beginning to see truths about themselves that the rest of the world (excluding USA) has known/suspected for a long time.
What has also to be remembered that many of these IDF personnel hold dual nationality and, after the atrocities, merge back into British/American/European societies and no one is any the wiser. Why isn't the UK Government raising this issue (when they have raised, rightly, with Sudan the atrocities committed by forces there)? Itb is time that UK passports were withdrawn from those dual nationals who breach Geneva conventions whilst serving in another country's uniform. Oh, and where is the BBC: why isn't it reporting it? We know why: it dare not cast aspertions on Israel.
(3)
2007-10-22 12:48:14
RSD:
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Azaad, I am afraid you are wrong... very few combat personnel in the IDF have dual nationality and few return to merge back into British / American / European societies. Part of the reason for this is that few Jews outside of Israel are functionally literate in Hebrew to meet the requirements of the IDF. Also a large proportion of Jews emigrating to Israel are too old to be drafted into combat units.
The majority of the IDF combat units are composed of locally born people, and of those the majority are Mizrachim (i.e. Middle Eastern Jews. Over the years much has been made of overseas volunteers but in fact their contribution in all the wars as been minimal. How much their inheritance affects their behaviour towards the Palestinians seems not to have been explored, but there have been past allegations that Jews from Muslim states are more likely to be brutal towards the Palestinians. It is also notable that Druze and Bedouin serving in the IDF have a reputation of greater brutality towards the Palestinians than their Jewish counterparts. Whatever the truth of the matter, it is clouded by communal inheritances and the constant statements of the propoganda machines. The only thing that we can state is that despite the evidence of this research the IDF certainly conducts itself better than neighbouring forces. Perhaps MPACUK should be urging the forces of the local Muslim states to act in accordance with the standards that it expects from the "Zionazi" IDF.
(4)
2007-10-22 13:56:43
DaveZ:
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Zioinism is a disgusting racist ideology that justifies anything in it's names. — Taz@ George. Your weasle words won't work here I'm afraid. Run along back to hole you crawled out of. It is good that these soldiers can be so candid and illustrate the great mental stain they are under. Some of their stories remind me of the Hamas vs Fatah killings in Gaza where two Palestinian children on a school run were killed by Hamas because their father was Fatah. The stories of throwing opponents off buildings, shooting them in the back or killing them while in hospital. No side has clean hands. Realise that bad behaviour is also on the side you support.
(5)
2007-10-22 14:08:33
George:
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azaad
Obviously the BBC hasn't picked up on this story yet. i totally disagree with you, however, that the Beeb dare not cast aspersions on Israel. Most Israel suuporters find the BBC coverage of all matters middle eastern to be almost totally biased AGAINST Israel. Their journos there have been and still are very one-sided (Orla Guerin, Jeremy Bowen...) For the British government to get involved there would have to be proof of (in this case) British citizens being involved in abuses such as this. If you read the left-wing Israeli press they are shocked by the disfigurement of the national character that years of war and dealing with an implaccable foe have caused. Taz - Israel exists, the Jews exist. Tough luck if you would have it otherwise.
(6)
2007-10-22 14:08:55
DaveZ:
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@taz
"Zioinism is a disgusting racist ideology that justifies anything in it's names. @ George. Your weasle words won't work here I'm afraid. Run along back to hole you crawled out of." Could you explain what the actiond of a few IDF members has to do with Zionism? Any Israeli born in Israel cannot be called a Zionists since, like anyone born in a country, only knows the home they live in. Hence, you cannot automatically say they are Zionists, especially since joining IDF is compulsory. Undoubtedly, anyone who emigrates to Israel is a Zionist and anyone who supports the State of Israel and its creation/existence is a Zionist. But a young Israeli soldier does not necessarily fit that description. Did everyone note that the reports were from 1980 to early 1990's. We are talking about events (regrettable) between 27 and 10 years ago. In which case you cannot necessarily extrapolate that behaviour to the current situation.
(7)
2007-10-22 14:20:13
roadkill:
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maybe the difference here is the near total lack of coverage by the MSM and the tacit acceptance of the role of what is effectively an army of occupation.
Compare the coverage against that of Iraqis in Kuwait, Serbs in Boz. Herc. or Kosovo, Russians in the Caucuses or British / US troops in Basra and Abu Graib (or the Nazis in Poland, the Japanese in China) and we can see a subtle difference in the justifications used by journos for the shocking use of aggression. I agree that it is promising that such a report was possible however. Credit where credit is due and blame where blame is due. The IDF are no doubt behaving in just the same way as all armies of occupation have done. As history teaches us, the real horrors won't come out until after the occupation is over.
(8)
2007-10-22 15:52:19
Taz:
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DaveZ. Let's pretend that you are not being deliberately obtuse or an apologist for toture for a moment so I will explain what is wrong with your argument.
Firstly people who enjoy torturing others are sadistic. No excuse. The state that sanctions those actions is even more so. Zionism is used to justify that wicked behaviour. The fact that these confessions are about acts that took place 10 to 27 years ago does not mean they are not happening today. Or should be forgotten. With your justification shall we forget about the Holocaust since it happened over 50 years ago? Israeli politicians are even more guilty than the sadistic soldiers. @ George: Jews can exist without Israel since they are not one and the same. Stop being a cry-baby.
(9)
2007-10-22 16:05:47
George:
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roadkill:
what justifications used by journos for the shocking aggression?? Israel routinely gets accused of everything under the sun, whether guilty or not. And not only by journalists but by one-sided organisations like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and the EU to name but a few.
(10)
2007-10-22 16:09:34
DaveZ:
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maybe the difference here is the near total lack of coverage by the MSM and the tacit acceptance of the role of what is effectively an army of occupation. — roadkillCompare the coverage against that of Iraqis in Kuwait, Serbs in Boz. Herc. or Kosovo, Russians in the Caucuses or British / US troops in Basra and Abu Graib (or the Nazis in Poland, the Japanese in China) and we can see a subtle difference in the justifications used by journos for the shocking use of aggression. I agree that it is promising that such a report was possible however. Credit where credit is due and blame where blame is due. The IDF are no doubt behaving in just the same way as all armies of occupation have done. As history teaches us, the real horrors won't come out until after the occupation is over. You are right. I haven't heard a single thing about the Nazi invasion of Poland and the Japanese in China. Must be a Zionist conspiracy.
(11)
2007-10-22 16:16:47
George:
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Taz
I wasn't aware I was in tears. so Jews can exist without Israel, can they? Where? Eastern Europe again? By the same logic Muslims can exist without Jerusalem as they are not one and the same. And Muslim 'Palestinians' can live without 'Palestine'.
(12)
2007-10-22 16:18:47
DaveZ:
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DaveZ. Let's pretend that you are not being deliberately obtuse or an apologist for toture for a moment so I will explain what is wrong with your argument. — TazFirstly people who enjoy torturing others are sadistic. No excuse. The state that sanctions those actions is even more so. Zionism is used to justify that wicked behaviour. The fact that these confessions are about acts that took place 10 to 27 years ago does not mean they are not happening today. Or should be forgotten. With your justification shall we forget about the Holocaust since it happened over 50 years ago? Israeli politicians are even more guilty than the sadistic soldiers. @ George: Jews can exist without Israel since they are not one and the same. Stop being a cry-baby. Just because they took place 10 to 27 years ago doesn't mean they are taking place today! There is no excuse for the way they behaved but there are reasons. I never said we should foget these atrocious acts. Of course we should NEVER forget The Holocaust and should memorialise it so we don't repeat it. Unless you are MCB of course!
(13)
2007-10-22 16:23:31
George:
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...unless you are the MCB of course!
...which has conveniently forgotten the genocide of the Armenians and the attempted genocide of the Bangladeshis at the hands of Pakistan.
(14)
2007-10-22 16:26:59
DaveZ:
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roadkill: — Georgewhat justifications used by journos for the shocking aggression?? Israel routinely gets accused of everything under the sun, whether guilty or not. And not only by journalists but by one-sided organisations like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and the EU to name but a few. George, HRW criticised Hezbollah for their conduct in attacking Israel. Palestinian Human Rights criticised Hamas and Fatah for their conduct during their civil war. Kofi Anan and Ban Ki Moon have criticised UNHCR for their focus on Israel and ignoring real human rights abuses in China, Darfur etc. Salim Mansur in the Toronto Sun criticised Palestinians lack of good faith on achieving peace in "Time to End The Charade":- "The truth of the matter is that there is nothing to broker when one party, the Palestinians and their Arab-Muslim financiers and supporters, remains committed to the destruction of the other party, the Israelis. Instead of another international conference the Americans would do better in accepting the obvious — that a Palestinian state exists, and it is called Jordan with its population being overwhelmingly Palestinian." It only SEEMS one-way!
(15)
2007-10-22 16:30:34
Taz:
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The MCB has never advocated forgetting the Holocaust. They have taken a principalled stand to extend HMD to commemorate ALL acts of genocide instead of making it the political tool of Zionists.
(16)
2007-10-22 16:36:09
George:
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DaveZ
OK. Not before time, however. But you're right. There has been a sizeable shift in public perception (I feel) away from blanket sympathy for the Palestinians in the last year or so, from Muslim and non-Muslim alike. Pity the 'average Palestinian (Jordanian) in the street' - occupied by Israel and instrumentalised by Arab nations with no interest in a settlement.
(17)
2007-10-22 16:50:58
shan:
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SO it seems some of us like to make up stories about genocides now.
if genocde took place 100 years ago as claimed by the armenians we have the world court and the U.N,the armenians should take their claims to the world court or the U.N and the veracitry foi their claims will be scrutinised. the fact that armenians refuse to take this before the world court or the U.N shows they have no proof but use lies to try and create reality.
(18)
2007-10-22 16:52:37
DaveZ:
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The MCB has never advocated forgetting the Holocaust. They have taken a principalled stand to extend HMD to commemorate ALL acts of genocide instead of making it the political tool of Zionists. — TazI suggest that you go to the HMD official website where you will discover that each year there is a special theme on a genocide OTHER THAN THE Holocaust. You have been duped to think that HMD is ONLY about The Holocaust. Don't take my word for it. Check it out yourself (unless you are so blind prejudiced you just 'know' MCB are correct). BTW it was this issue that led to the Government sidelining MCB. I know Ruth Kelly's speech very well and I also know the Hansard entries where she referes to MCB and their HMD denial.
(19)
2007-10-22 19:12:48
roadkill:
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DaveZ and George - perhaps you are right? I was only referring to 2 terrestrial chanels, 4 satelite news channels and 3 broadsheets so who am I to make such sweeping generalisations?
Infact I was not attacking the IDF just pointing out that IDF staff are simply carrying out the actions of most occupying forces. Brutality is part of war etc. But in this story, as unpleasant as it is, perhaps there are reasons to be hopeful. One of the problems facing an occupying force is stress. Or rather guilt. Whilst the politicians are able to see the 'bigger picture', the soldier is forced to confront the truth. Some might turn this pressure in on themselves (depression) whilst others will direct it outwards (aggression). Military brass cannot afford to loose staff to the former so the later is preferable, as perhaps this report is showing? Perhaps the cracks really are opening in IDF ranks over its (and the Israeli government's) policies. Time will tell. Re Nazis in Poland and Japanese in China; watch news clips from the time or read press cuttings. Afterall, aren't we always being told that ignorance of history is non-permissable?
(20)
2007-10-22 19:13:35
DaveZ:
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SO it seems some of us like to make up stories about genocides now. — shanif genocde took place 100 years ago as claimed by the armenians we have the world court and the U.N,the armenians should take their claims to the world court or the U.N and the veracitry foi their claims will be scrutinised. the fact that armenians refuse to take this before the world court or the U.N shows they have no proof but use lies to try and create reality. Armenian Genocide Denial!
(21)
2007-10-22 19:14:59
DaveZ:
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DaveZ and George - perhaps you are right? I was only referring to 2 terrestrial chanels, 4 satelite news channels and 3 broadsheets so who am I to make such sweeping generalisations? — roadkillInfact I was not attacking the IDF just pointing out that IDF staff are simply carrying out the actions of most occupying forces. Brutality is part of war etc. But in this story, as unpleasant as it is, perhaps there are reasons to be hopeful. One of the problems facing an occupying force is stress. Or rather guilt. Whilst the politicians are able to see the 'bigger picture', the soldier is forced to confront the truth. Some might turn this pressure in on themselves (depression) whilst others will direct it outwards (aggression). Military brass cannot afford to loose staff to the former so the later is preferable, as perhaps this report is showing? Perhaps the cracks really are opening in IDF ranks over its (and the Israeli government's) policies. Time will tell. Re Nazis in Poland and Japanese in China; watch news clips from the time or read press cuttings. Afterall, aren't we always being told that ignorance of history is non-permissable? You are guilty of extrapolating what this means TODAY - when it happened between 1980 and the early 1990's. I didn't seek to minimise its brutality but people are using this article as if it happened yesterday - not between 10 and 27 years ago.
(22)
2007-10-22 19:17:30
C Carter:
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These guys are sick. How can any human do this to a 4 year old.
(23)
2007-10-22 20:23:56
DaveZ:
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These guys are sick. How can any human do this to a 4 year old. — C CarterI suppose you could ask the Palestinians terrorists who ambushed a car and shot the pregnant mother and her four children in cold-blood. Ask then why they did it and perhaps it will help us understand. ANother reference point would be the Palestinians who tore apart with their bare flesh two Israeli reservists who accidentally took the worng turning. They gleefully showed handfuls of flesh to the baying crowd below. Perhaps if we understood them then it would lead to understanding. What about the Palestinians who decapitated Israeli soldiers and who played football with their heads and gleefully displayed the heads on a table in their office. Perhaps this will help us define the human condition we are dealing with. Don't try and suggest 'atrocities' and "animalistic behaviours" are the sole province of Israeli troops who have gone wayward those 10 - 27 years ago.
(24)
2007-10-22 22:03:52
muzzylogic:
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@DaveZ
Time is irrelavent. The people they killed are still dead and the people they tortured aren't likely to forget. You seem to keep waving the "it happened 10 - 27 years ago" as some sort of "this doesn't count" rationale here. Does that mean that in 10-27 years time, the counter atrocities you describe won't matter?
(25)
2007-10-22 22:10:07
AA:
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All the zionists that try to defend or make excuses for the sick twisted IDF soldiers are as bad and evil as the ones committing the Palestinian Holocaust.
You are terrorist supporters and apologists for Zionazis. You should hang your heads in shame.
(26)
2007-10-23 01:51:44
DaveZ:
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All the zionists that try to defend or make excuses for the sick twisted IDF soldiers are as bad and evil as the ones committing the Palestinian Holocaust. — AAYou are terrorist supporters and apologists for Zionazis. You should hang your heads in shame. What Palestinian holocaust? Note the non-capitalisation of the letter "h" in its proper useage. There is NO Palestinian holocaust. I don't see anyone defending or making excuses for the behaviour of these IDF members between 10 and 27 years ago. The assertion that this is the creed of the IDF is like suggesting that all Muslims are terrorists based on the fact that some Muslims are terrorists or that all doctors are killers based on the fact that some doctors have been killers,
(27)
2007-10-23 07:25:15
DaveZ:
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@DaveZ — muzzylogicTime is irrelavent. The people they killed are still dead and the people they tortured aren't likely to forget. You seem to keep waving the "it happened 10 - 27 years ago" as some sort of "this doesn't count" rationale here. Does that mean that in 10-27 years time, the counter atrocities you describe won't matter? I never once stated that what these IDF members did "doesn't matter". My point is that what happened 10-27 years ago does not mean that it happens today or is a creed of behaviour that is acceptable.
(28)
2007-10-23 07:27:18
MPACUK:
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Commenting closed as the debate is just going round in circles.
(29)
2007-10-23 09:23:04
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CAIRO — Israeli soldiers enjoy torturing Palestinians, both men and women, and many of them use it to discharge energy, according to a recent study by an Israeli psychologist. 
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