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| Paul Findley Exposes The Israel Lobby (He's Anti-Semitic Right?) |
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| Monday, 15 October 2007 | |
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Readers have left 14 comments.
JWD:
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at Findley is spouting is old rubbish from 2003. Scraping the barrel eh?
(1)
2007-10-16 07:20:33
RSD:
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The Palestinians / Phillistines are mentioned in the Old Testament. They were a Greek speaking tribal group who had migrated along the Levantine coast from the Greek Islands to Gaza. They had ceased to exist as an identifiable national / tribal group at least two centuries prior to the beginning of the Christian period. The Romans resurrected the name following the Jewish Uprising in the 1st Century AD / CE in attempt to eradicate the identity of the Israelite nation. Subsequently Palestine / Palestinian came to be used to describe the Jewish community in the Holy Land. It was not until the 20th Century that Palestinian came to be used to describe the non-Jewish population of the Mandate area.
Whatever the original Palestinians were, they were not a Semitic group.
(2)
2007-10-16 09:45:35
Justice:
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To JWD. I respect your honesty, but I don't respect your failure to recognise Israel's aggression.
- Would I be anti-Semitic when I say that Israel is wrong in its occupation of Palestinian lands (according to the UN)? Would I be anti-Semitic when I say that Israel is wrong when denying the indigenous people from getting the same amount of water from their land that is allowed for new (illegal) immigrants? - Would I be anti-Semitic when saying that Israel's record of human rights is appalling? If you don’t stand against those aggression by Israel then you will not get any respect from people here. Standing by the aggressor makes you an aggressor yourself. In Islam we have better guidance: "Help your brother whether he is an oppressor or an oppressed person. A companion asked: 'Messenger of God (it is true) I will help him if he is an oppressed person, but please tell me how I am to help him if he happens to be an oppressor.' The Holy Prophet (P) answered: check him from doing injustice. Because preventing him from committing aggression is a help to him." Reported by Anas Bin Malik and recorded by Imam Bukhari.
(3)
2007-10-16 15:11:17
George:
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JWD
I sympathise entirely. One thought: If you go looking for anti-semitism you will find it.
(4)
2007-10-16 15:16:40
JWD:
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To JWD. I respect your honesty, but I don't respect your failure to recognise Israel's aggression. — Justice- Would I be anti-Semitic when I say that Israel is wrong in its occupation of Palestinian lands (according to the UN)? Would I be anti-Semitic when I say that Israel is wrong when denying the indigenous people from getting the same amount of water from their land that is allowed for new (illegal) immigrants? - Would I be anti-Semitic when saying that Israel's record of human rights is appalling? If you don’t stand against those aggression by Israel then you will not get any respect from people here. Standing by the aggressor makes you an aggressor yourself. In Islam we have better guidance: "Help your brother whether he is an oppressor or an oppressed person. A companion asked: 'Messenger of God (it is true) I will help him if he is an oppressed person, but please tell me how I am to help him if he happens to be an oppressor.' The Holy Prophet (P) answered: check him from doing injustice. Because preventing him from committing aggression is a help to him." Reported by Anas Bin Malik and recorded by Imam Bukhari. OK, let me put the record straight:- Israel can be brutal, stupid, careless and strategically wrong. However, it doesn't deserve 75% of the comments made against it. Example:- "Tear down the Wall". Its NOT a wall. 5% is wall and 95% fence. So, to evoke emotion when its a barrier that stops suicide attacks seems unfair criticism. Take teh case of Mohammed Al Dura. A fake in order to invoke the Intifada. Doesn't that deserve to be countered? Don't you deserve to acknowledge the truth?
(5)
2007-10-16 17:06:39
Truth:
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JWD:
You are so devoid of reality that to you evrything is a fantasy. Wake up JWD the truth is coming to get ya! It's too late to spin,lie,weave ,deceive, your way out anymore.
(6)
2007-10-16 17:33:08
Justice:
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JWD,
Again, you are NOT doing yourself any favours here by calling the case of M Al Dura a fake. It was captured on camera and the whole world accepts it was the IDF who deliberately killed him. The Israeli army (as usual) acted in complete disregard to take away the life of a child. I find it sickening that you even try to defend that case. But I guess in your mind, the Israeli Army bulldozer that crushed Rachel Corrie and the bullets that killed Tom Hurndall James Miller were all fake too. The uprooting of olive trees and the destruction of houses is also a stunt fabricated by the Palestinians to gain sympathy from the world and to show the "poor, innocent, capable of no harm" state of Israel in a bad way. I don’t blame Jews for the atrocities committed by Israel and I think true Jewish people should distance themselves from such attrocities (allegedly committed in their name) but regardless of what your religion is, if you support, approve or even remain silent against such acts, makes you as bad as the perpetrators. If rape was being discussed and a person says “I support rape” or even “I have no opinion about it”, that person would be as bad as the rapist. Similarly, if you don’t acknowledge that the occupation is wrong, the killing of innocent civilians is wrong, the destruction of houses and the uprooting of trees is wrong then you are as evil as those doing it. JWD, do you accept that the state of Israel is engaged in an act of ILLEGAL OCCUPATION? It all boils down to this simple fact. I doubt that I’d get a straight forward answer from you regarding this.
(7)
2007-10-16 18:03:30
Seeking Peace:
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JWD:
A fence?? This "fence" is in some places 20-30 metres high, 50 cm to 100 cm or more thick, and made of solid concrete, with watchtowers in some places. The WALL goes into Palestinian land (well beyond the "green line"), cutting off Palestinians from each other, cutting right through Palestinian yards, orchards, and villages. The WALL is just as inhumane as the Israeli checkpoints, which are horrific places where human beings are treated worse than animals, people die at the border while the IDF denies them entry for hours & hours (for absolutely no reason than to punish & humiliate) while en route to the hospital in emergencies, women are being forced to deliver babies right at a check point in front of IDF soldiers (with half of those babies dying! and some of the women dying as well). And the "checkpoints" are NOT for security -- hundreds of them are nowhere near the border of Israel but are placed on roads going from one Palestinian town to another. There is NOTHING humane about the Israeli occupation and the brutal treatment of Palestinians by the Israeli govt and IDF forces.
(8)
2007-10-16 18:49:11
Seeking Peace:
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... continued...
Check out www.gush-salom.org and B'Tselem -- Israeli organizations who try to show the world the war crimes being committed against Palestinians EVERY day. Gush Shalom has articles and pictures about the WALL. You can also find out about the inhumane demolition of Palestinian homes by visiting www.icahd.org - The Israel Committee Against Home Demolitions See also www.jewsnotzionists.org to learn the history behind the creation of the State of Israel, and how the great Jewish sages and Rabbis were VEHEMENTLY OPPOSED to the creation of Israel as being against the Torah. Lastly, check out this Israeli study with quotes of IDF soldiers likening themselves to "god" and being able to do whatever they want to the Palestinians with impunity: A New Israeli Study Confirms Our Worst Fears http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=22525 And yet even with this knowledge, the American govt supports the policies of Israel. For shame! The world cannot become a peaceful place until Israel stops spreading hatred and violence, and stops committing genocide and ethnic cleansing.
(9)
2007-10-16 18:50:45
Seeking Peace:
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Oh yeah - and as long as anyone is thinking Israel is a "friend" of the United States...
Check out the story about the USS Liberty - you can Google it or go to www.ussliberty.org The Chicago Tribune just had a story out in past few days revealing, finally, that the Israelis PURPOSELY attacked the US ship and tried to COVER IT UP, and that the US govt was complicit in the cover up. (The seamen who survived the attack have been fighting to get the truth out for decades) Why Americans continue to support Israel, after Israel is continuously caught spying in the US (see http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html), after Israelis were caught videotaping the WTC collapse and dancing & giving each other high fives, and while Israel controls the US govt decision to the extent that decisions made are AGAINST the interest of Americans... My goodness, just what does a "friend" have to do to finally be regarded suspiciously? Americans should, minimally, stop sending $10 Million PER DAY to Israel...
(10)
2007-10-16 19:00:36
RSD:
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Justice et al.
Regardless of which side you think you support in this debate one of the real problems is determining what is true from what is propoganda, and who is for your side in practice and who against. Stories like those of Rachel Corrie and Mohamed Al-Dura have a tendency to develop a life of their own and soon they are distorted beyond belief. In Rachel Corrie's case she was run over by an IDF bulldozer, but she had fallen into its path from an adjacent pile of rocks and the driver couldn't see her. In the Al-Dura case the situation is both more banal and more dishonest. Mohamed wandered down to Netzarim Junction to watch other boys throwing rocks at the IDF after school. His father went to collect him and they got caught up in a fire-fight between PLO and IDF. from the aerial photos that are readily available the IDF position was to Mr. Al-Dura's immediate left. The photographs taken of the Al-Duras in from face on and taken by a Palestinian camera man operating from Palestinian positions. The bullets hits Mohamed directly through the stomach and kill him. Unless the IDF have developed a new type of bullet that takes a sudden 90 degree turn to the right when it reaches a Palestinian child it is hard to see how the IDF were responsible. The TV footage of the killing is held by a French TV station who currently being taken to court in Paris to compell them to hand it over in its raw state. The TV st'n is refusing because in all likelihood it fears the outcome of the Israelis seeing the footage. The Palestinian comaeraman who filmed the incident now claims that her never stated that the IDF had killed Mohamed. The list goes on and on, including the Jenin Massacre that wasn't etc. None of this propoganda actually furthers the interests of the ordinary Palestinian, and only serves to prolong the conflict. If their supporters believe these fabrications then the decisions they make will always be flawed and so will any counsel they give to their Palestinian allies. Why on earth would the Friends of Palestine actually want that? Or is it that many of the so-called "Friends" are simply using them for their own ends?
(11)
2007-10-16 20:40:52
Justice:
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RSD:
So the UN reports about children killed by IDF are wrong, and AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL were also lying when they reported that IDF is killing children. And the UK jury that returned a verdict of unlawful killing, finding that James Miller had been "murdered" by the IDF didn't know what they were talking about. Even if you manage to lie your way out of every incident and blame it on the Palestinians, the fact remains that Israel is engaged in an illegal occupation. If you have an atom of conscious remaining in your heart you would know that occupation is wrong and you would speak against it, but like your friend JWD, you just want to dress the ugly face of occupation in plenty of makeup to hide its ugliness.
(12)
2007-10-17 13:49:06
RSD:
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Justice,
I do not dispute that the IDF have killed children (person under 18 yrs). The occupation has progressively brutalised both sides and there is an urgent need to terminate it and all acts of violence. Nevertheless the fabrication of incidents such as the one I cite only serve to polarise the situation further which postpones the coming of peace. I question the motivation of those that continually promote distortions of facts (on both sides) as this inherently weakens the side they claim to support.
(13)
2007-10-17 14:30:02
DaveZ:
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RSD,
The mythology around Corrie's death also has a twist. On the websites showing photos of bulldozers it illustrates IDF bulldozers with one of its models (it uses several). It suggests that the operators had a clear view of everything when the scoop was in various positions. In fact, the bulldozer which tragically killed Corrie was a different model that had far more restricted vision. Corrie was visible but slipped on the soft earth and disappeared out of view. You would think that her home country USA would be horrified. But Corrie was also virulently anti-American and burned USA flags. She didn't quite endear herself to the USA public. Nonetheless it was a tragedy but not a deliberate attempt to kill her.
(14)
2007-10-18 01:27:07
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There is an open secret in Washington. I learned it well during my 22-year
tenure as a member of the U.S. House of Representatives. All members swear to
serve the interests of the United States, but there is an unwritten and
overwhelming exception: The interests of one small foreign country almost always
trump U.S. interests. That nation of course is Israel.









