Choose Your Region

UK-Region IRELAND-region

MPACUK LEEDS

Adverts/Promotions

Powered by: MuslimPages
 
Kent Muslim Welfare Association Halal Hamper CHL Properties When Slaves Become the Masters Journalism Diversity Fund Stop War On Iran

Disclaimer: MPACUK does not select these automated ads.


Subscribe to our newsletter:


That sinking feeling! Print E-mail
Sunday, 23 September 2007

antiapartheid.gifIRAQ is burning. This is something even the most brazen of neocons can’t deny. And given the extent of America’s woes in Iraq and the intolerable heat the current occupant of the White House faces over this war right now, you would think starting another war is the last thing this administration would want.

But then this administration is like no other. Incredible as it may sound, Iran is back in the sights of US hawks as the next target of the Zionist-neocon brigade.  French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner’s warning to Iran last week promising war if it didn’t fall in line was no slip of Gallic tongue. France’s Nicolas Sarkozy has lost little time in stepping into Tony Blair’s shoes as the handmaiden of friends across the Atlantic.

If signals emanating from Western capitals and broad hints dropped by Israeli and neocon hawks are anything to go by, the Middle East may be in for yet another war. The fact that Iran happens to be only next door from the current battlefield fits rather nicely with the general scheme of things of the Zionist-neocon lobby.

All that the coalition of the willing, entrenched in Iraq, has to do is broaden its horizon, extending the battlefield from Iraq up to Iran. And maybe further up — to include Pakistan, in one long sweep — from the Middle East to Central Asia. After all, this was the original blueprint of our neocon friends — to take over the reins of the whole of the Middle East and Muslim world in what was to be an American century.

So let’s get ready for the hunt. Jackals have smelt the blood and are moving in for the kill, all over again. In any case, having sucked Iraq bone dry, there is little for the coalition of the willing to do in the land of Abraham and Salahuddin.

It is time to move on. To a new target and to a new battlefield, then. The masterfully choreographed charade of smoke and mirror on Iran has begun in all earnest. Don’t be surprised if the tricks and players look a tad familiar. Remember, we saw them not long ago next door?

Just as they linked Saddam’s Iraq to uranium stocks in Niger and Weapons of Mass Destruction that — Colin Powell assured the UN — were a clear and present danger to world peace, Iran and Syria are being accused of toying with ‘biological weapons’.

Syria has been charged with building WMD for Iran, with the help of North Korea. What a fine coincidence! What fantastic way of throwing Bush’s original Axis of Evil together!

The whole of Western media, led by big names like The New York Times and Washington Post, has dutifully bought the Lobby’s fiction that Syria and Iran are hobnobbing with North Korea to build what Saddam once pretended to in Syrian territory. It is being claimed that Israel’s air strike inside Syrian territory recently targeted those WEAPONS!

Haven’t we been here and heard that before?  I mean, how many times the world would be taken for a grand ride in this manner? Damn it, they don’t even have the ingenuity to change the route.

However, reality may be a little different from what the Lobby and its friendly media would have us believe. 

Israel’s air strike in Syria, which the Jewish state has in its characteristic smugness neither denied nor confirmed, could be a dry run for the next war on Iran.  This is no flight of fancy of a paranoid hack. Britain’s Observer and Daily Mail have carried in depth reports detailing how Israel’s Iran Command — responsible for planning and executing an attack on Iran if ordered — carried out the Operation Orchard deep inside Syrian territory earlier this month.  Quoting highly placed sources, the UK papers confirm the fears that the operation in Syria was indeed a drill for Iran attack.

This may not be a full-scale invasion like Iraq but a quick and target specific one, thoughtful pundits reassure us.

If there were any doubts about Israel’s designs, they were cleared by its former PM Netanyahu on Thursday when he broke official silence to croak that the operation had been a “success and of strategic significance.”

So there you go. The noose is tightening around Iran’s neck. Slowly and decisively. Helpfully, Condi Rice was in the region to use her good offices for the mission. America’s top diplomat blasted IAEA’s ElBaradei for his ‘unhelpful’ stand on Iran. Demanding bold action against Iran ‘with teeth,’ Condi reminded him that IAEA “is not in the business of diplomacy.”

Of course. Diplomacy is not for straight-talking men like ElBaradei. Diplomacy is for big bullies who can use it to cut troublesome players like Iran to their size.  The IAEA chief, clearly wiser after the Iraq disaster, has been resisting the US pressure to declare Iran a rogue state.  Carefully avoiding Western traps to ensnare the Middle East in another dangerous conflict, ElBaradei has been trying his best to find a peaceful solution to Iran question.

Recently, IAEA sent a compromise formula to Big 5 of UN that allows Iran to continue limited uranium enrichment. Which is its right in any case, as a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty.  Iran for its part will open its nuclear installations and sites to international inspections; which Teheran has already been doing anyway.

This is not acceptable to the US and company though. For it leaves with them no excuse to teach Iran a lesson or two. No wonder Condi is upset with IAEA.

But IAEA or no IAEA, this administration is building its case for another war before Bush leaves the White House. Addressing the American Legion on the 9/11 anniversary, the commander-in-chief used rhetoric against Iran equal in bellicosity to anything he used before invading Iraq:

Iran “is the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism.”

Iran “funds terrorist groups like Hamas. …Iran is sending arms to the Taleban.”

Iran’s pursuit of nuclear technology threatens to put the Middle East “under the shadow of a nuclear holocaust and America will confront this danger before it is too late.”

So here we are — the Arabs, Muslims and rest of the world — hurtling towards yet another disastrous war in the world’s most volatile region.

This is a war that we do not want. This is not of our making and is not in our interest, not that other wars serve any purpose. Yet it is being forced on us. Just as Iraq had been and the wars before that were.

Aren’t we going to do anything to stop this war? Are we going to stand and stare while another Middle Eastern country with a great civilisation is thrown to hungry lions, as they did in a Roman coliseum?

And for goodness sake, let’s cut this crap about Shia Iran scheming to rule the Sunni Arab world. Okay, Iran’s Ayatollahs may still talk of the Islamic Revolution and could be playing their little games in Iraq with their blessings for the Shia alliance and militias.

And Ahmadinejad may have his moment in the sun once in a while with his outbursts of political incorrectness and absurd periodic reports on nuclear programme.

But Iran is no threat to its neighbours and rest of the Arab world. In fact, it is as vulnerable as its neighbours to the machinations of big powers.

The Sunnis and Shias have lived in peace with each other over the past 15 centuries across the Muslim world — until our colonial friends came along. Would we allow the old imperial game of divide and rule to succeed once again?

Yesterday they came for the so-called Sunni Saddam Hussein. Tomorrow they’ll come for the Shia Iran. Who knows who is going to be next?

Aijaz Zaka Syed writes a weekly column on the Middle East and Muslim world affairs in the Khaleej Times. 

Source: theamericanmuslim.org




Reddit!Del.icio.us!Facebook!

Readers have left 37 comments.
JamalA: Quote

"The Sunnis and Shias have lived in peace with each other over the past 15 centuries across the Muslim world — until our colonial friends came along"

Iraq/Iran War - one million dead.

"Incredible as it may sound, Iran is back in the sights of US hawks as the next target of the Zionist-neocon brigade. French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner’s warning to Iran last week......"

So France is now a "Zionist neo-con" country?

"The New York Times and Washington Post, has dutifully bought the Lobby’s fiction that Syria and Iran are hobnobbing with North Korea to build what Saddam once pretended to in Syrian territory. It is being claimed that Israel’s air strike inside Syrian territory recently targeted those WEAPONS!"

Let's see. After Israel's air-strike at some "swimming pool" in Syria who complains (completely at random)? Syria, Iran and South Korea! Doh!

"And for goodness sake, let’s cut this crap about Shia Iran scheming to rule the Sunni Arab world. Okay, Iran’s Ayatollahs may still talk of the Islamic Revolution and could be playing their little games in Iraq with their blessings for the Shia alliance and militias."

Ah, that would be 'playing games' by mass killing of fellow Muslims at prayer or lining-up for jobs/petrol.
(1) 2007-09-24 01:33:29
shamsur: Quote

Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Morrocco, Pakistan, Malaysia, Turkey, Yemen, Dubai, etc etc etc etc. We have more than a billion soldiers, why cant we muslims get together and force Israel to withdraw from Palestine?

I'll tell you why , its because the big bellied sheiks in the middle east are in a state of Jahilia..... shame on them
(2) 2007-09-24 13:39:38
roadkill: Quote

JamalA
the Iran / Iraq war had little to do with sunni / shia rivalry. Bathists, backed by USSR and USA and commanded by Sadam went to deal a blow for the US. Most of Sadam's senior Generals were Shia.

when independant Palestinian terrorists launch rocket attacks on Israeli targets it responds with the full force of the IDF against all Palestians. Perhaps Syria should take a leaf out of Israels book and start a war with the Jewish state? No, perhaps not.
Invasions of one's airspace is a serious matter, bombing runs are even worse. Syria's restraint here is comendable.

(3) 2007-09-24 14:14:27
JamalA: Quote

Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Morrocco, Pakistan, Malaysia, Turkey, Yemen, Dubai, etc etc etc etc. We have more than a billion soldiers, why cant we muslims get together and force Israel to withdraw from Palestine?

I'll tell you why , its because the big bellied sheiks in the middle east are in a state of Jahilia..... shame on them
— shamsur


Because you'd get whacked by Israel if you tried it, just like every Arab attack on Israel since 1948 has been whacked and defeated.

Don't quote Hezbollah and The Lebanon at me. Hezbollah were saved by a ceasefire and Israel was too slow to respond with any real force.
(4) 2007-09-24 14:41:06
JamalA: Quote

JamalA
the Iran / Iraq war had little to do with sunni / shia rivalry. Bathists, backed by USSR and USA and commanded by Sadam went to deal a blow for the US. Most of Sadam's senior Generals were Shia.

when independant Palestinian terrorists launch rocket attacks on Israeli targets it responds with the full force of the IDF against all Palestians. Perhaps Syria should take a leaf out of Israels book and start a war with the Jewish state? No, perhaps not.
Invasions of one's airspace is a serious matter, bombing runs are even worse. Syria's restraint here is comendable.

— roadkill


Yes Syria's realisation that any response would be devastating for them is what prevents them from responding.

Just explain how Israel was allowed to enter Syrian airspace without any challenge, take out a military facility and return home without a scratch. Syria couldn't even do it for their own protection.
(5) 2007-09-24 14:43:33
roadkill: Quote

probably because one of those countries struggles under arms and trade embargos and one is the single largest recipient of US aid anywhere.

One country is threatened with destruction for things it has only been suspected of whilst one is supported for human rights abuse and military abuse of neighboring territories.

Syria is still commendable in its stance, whilst at the same time Israel distances itself from everyone but a collasping super power badly in debt to China.

Oh yes, and Israel has the bomb despite refusing the NNPT that most other countries (USA, UK, China, Iran etc.) have signed up to. Its rather like the mafia; if you have bought the law, you are beyond touch for your crimes. Well, in this life.
(6) 2007-09-24 15:05:10
JamalA: Quote

shalom, still have to debase everything to Antisemitic remarks, don't you.

Your posts will do more to close down MPAC UK than anyone else (and past misdemeanours are certainly being taken into consideration).

Why did Nasrallah apologise to the Lebanese people because he didn't realise Israel would respond so strongly?

What was Hezbollah's goal?

Unless you have a stated goal then you can't measure whether you achieved it.

Which side was calling for a ceasefire? Not Israel. Surely, if Israel was getting a 'bloody nose' then it would have been calling for that ceasefire.

Which side is blamed for the conflict in the UN Ceasefire reasolution? The Lebanon/Hezbollah

Do you consider all those civilian Lebanese deaths A VICTORY????

Just indicates your mentality.
(7) 2007-09-24 16:09:16
JamalA: Quote

shalom, still have to debase everything to Antisemitic! Antisemitic! Antisemitic! Antisemitic! Antisemitic! Antisemitic! Antisemitic! Antisemitic! Antisemitic! Antisemitic! Antisemitic! remarks, don't you.

Do you consider all those civilian Lebanese deaths A VICTORY????
— shalom


Cry! Cry! Cry! Mr Wolf[owitz]. How you try to pull wool over the eyes of the world Mr Wolf[owitz] in sheeps clothing?

The reason I contradicted you saying "Israel was t-o-o s-l-o-w was because Israel the coward of all 'democracies' was NOT t-o-o s-l-o-w to kill so many innocent Lebanese civilians. True victory lies in HEROISM. Israel was humiliated and defeated...and it's gonna get even better, there's more to come if you mis-behave. The world is watching Y-O-U!
— JamalA


Let's see how much you know. How many Lebanese civilians were killed? How many members of Hezbollah were killed?

What is the total of those two numbers?

(You will refuse to answer I'll bet)
(8) 2007-09-24 16:43:49
RSD: Quote

Dear All, I though the following might help inform the debate as international law is being quoted.

The United Nations Charter acknowledges the "inherent right of individual or collective self-defense," although states undertaking such an exercise are in theory obligated to inform the Security Council under the terms of Article 51. According to the jurist Louis Henkin, "It has...been accepted that the right to self-defense, individual or collective, is subject to limitations of 'necessity' and 'proportionality,' but that self-defense includes a right both to repel armed attack and to take the war to the aggressor state in order effectively to terminate the attack and prevent a recurrence." (Source US Marine Corp Officers training materials)

War is a filthy disgusting brutal activity in which the stupid and naive are sacrificed usually for the benefit of the powerful. It occurs to me that many in the Middle East have become entranced by a cult of death which serves only to further the interests of an elite. The same cult makes a mockery of the greetings Salaam ~ Shalom.
(9) 2007-09-24 19:32:16
JamalA: Quote

As I said...TRUE VICTORY LIES IN HEROISM, not cowardly attacks on innocent Lebanese civilians, (Martyrs -not aggressive, cowardly dogs). Besides, both sides have committed such crimes, but not on the scale as Israel, with Jets, Tanks, Bulldozers and other means such as Sanctions, Restrictions on Movement (Nazi style). Israel is a coward par excellence...in the name of DEMOCRACY -shame on YOU!
— shalom


The most recent Human Rights report condemned Hezbollah for exclsively targetting civilians. How heroic is that?

Whereas, Israel targetted Hezbollah positions which were located amongst civilians. More Heroism by Hezbollah.

If Hezbollah were so competent then why didn't they make a ground incursion into Israel with massed terrorists? Because they are cowards with limited fighting ability in open combat. They would rather hide behind the skirts of women and locate their rocket launchers amongst the playgrounds with the hope of drawing civilian casualties.
(10) 2007-09-24 20:13:42
JamalA: Quote

And...how many civilians in Israel were killed? Compared to the number Israel indiscriminately bombed and blasted to death in Lebabnon? (Including of the U.N.-United Nations Emergency Relief coordinator, Jan Egeland, visited Beirut. The BBC reported: "[Egeland] said the 'disproportionate response' by Israel was a 'violation of international humanitarian law.'")

You are obviously bent on victory and heroism through mayhem, bloodshed, and chaos...according to you, suffering of the Palestinians is also a victory for Isreal.
— shalom


I predicted you wouldn't/couldn't answer the question and I have been proven 100% correct.

Not a single politician has EVER defined what is proportional. Do you demand proportionality?

OK then, you will accept that Israel fires a missile at Gaza every time Hamas fire a missile at Israel.

Isn't that fair and proportional?
(11) 2007-09-24 20:15:53
JamalA: Quote

Dear All, I though the following might help inform the debate as international law is being quoted.

The United Nations Charter acknowledges the "inherent right of individual or collective self-defense," although states undertaking such an exercise are in theory obligated to inform the Security Council under the terms of Article 51. According to the jurist Louis Henkin, "It has...been accepted that the right to self-defense, individual or collective, is subject to limitations of 'necessity' and 'proportionality,' but that self-defense includes a right both to repel armed attack and to take the war to the aggressor state in order effectively to terminate the attack and prevent a recurrence." (Source US Marine Corp Officers training materials)

War is a filthy disgusting brutal activity in which the stupid and naive are sacrificed usually for the benefit of the powerful. It occurs to me that many in the Middle East have become entranced by a cult of death which serves only to further the interests of an elite. The same cult makes a mockery of the greetings Salaam ~ Shalom.
— RSD


RSD, it is under the same laws of engagement with an enemy that makes the assassination of Yassin and Rantissi legal since they were commanders of enemy combatants at war with Israel.

When you are at war then you may persue your enemy anywhere and without warning.
(12) 2007-09-24 20:18:15
RSD: Quote

JamaalA,
Perhaps you did not read the text carefully enough. It is legitimate to take action to prevent a reoccurence and this includes killing to commanders of the forces faced and the political leaders. The objective is to prevent the purposeless killing of those unconnected with war, but in most societies this is a very small number.
You perhaps also failed to understand fully my final paragraph. I urge you to take time to consider it.
(13) 2007-09-24 20:38:32
JamalA: Quote

So, I get it, therefore, the assassination of Rabin was legal then?

Israel's Policies Assassinate Jews, Too

“The Israeli government yesterday carried out a targeted assassination on an unspecified number of unnamed, randomly selected Israeli Jews.” That’s how the headlines should read. In fact, they said that Israeli rockets killed 10 civilians and injured many more, a day after assassinating Jamal Abu Samhadana, head of security operations for the Hamas-led government in Palestine.

This is the same policy Israeli leaders have pursued for decades: dooming their own people to die randomly and justifying it all “bishvil bitahon” -- for the sake of security. It’s all tragic madness. It can’t go on forever. Some day the Israelis will have to make peace and make the terribly difficult decision to dismantle their settlements and accept a viable Palestinian state in all of the West Bank and Gaza. Why not face the political difficulties now? Why try in vain to postpone the reckoning of history, when it means that more of their own people must die?"

— shalom


No, you DON'T get it. The assasination of Rabin is not legally justified.

Some day the Palestinians and Arab nations will realise that Israel is there to stay, as sanctioned by God and that they will see the benefit of making peace as Egypt and Jordan did.

One day the Palestinians will realise that they are the architects of their own demise and that the World is tired of their Professional Victimhood.

One day the Palestinians will actually stick to a peace deal. They may EVEN go back and start to implement The Roadmap.

By trying to remove Israel since 1948 all the Arabs have achieved is pain, humiliation and the loss of land.

When will they learn from their mistakes?
(14) 2007-09-24 20:58:53
JamalA: Quote

"Islam is on its way...don't you worry now!"

I'm so pleased. I think I can see where its going. So, I'm not worried!

I think 200 nukes and the technology to deliver suggests there won't be any major attacks on Israel.

How come the 'pussies' in Syria didn't fire a shot in anger? I guess you've actually got to see the planes first. Then you've got to be brave enough to scramble.

I guess its the 'brave' bit that's lacking.
(15) 2007-09-24 22:43:05
JamalA: Quote

shalom, you describe Islam as a conquering army sweeping all despotic Arab leaders away and installing Talibanesque and Iranian regimes that will go on to threaten non-compliant countries.

1939 all over again it seems according to your description. Now where was that post about The Pope, The Prophet and the Sword?
(16) 2007-09-25 07:46:06
Paul M: Quote

'Islam is on its way' promises Shalom. Two points / questions:

1. Why does 'Shalom' adopt a Hebrew name when he is clearly a Muslim? Did he originally plan to pose as an anti-Zionist Jew and just get tired of the pretence? Is this tantamount to a lie? If so, he cannot be a Muslim, since Islam prizes truthfulness.

2. I am old enough to remember those who endlessly promised 'Socialim is coming'. When we pointed out that there were already 57 varieties of Socialism, all of them ruinous, the local Socialist said 'Oh, none of those are real Socialism.' It's the same with Islam. There are 57 Muslim countries in the world, some of them declaring themselves as Islamic republics. Even Syria has Islam enshrined in law (the President must be a Muslim, hence all the fuss about whether the Alawis are or are not). But for the local purists, of course, none of them is the genuine article, which is just around the corner.

(17) 2007-09-25 08:46:23
RezaV: Quote

Reading Shalom's posts make me feel genuinely sorry for him and his ilk. They also help me understand the enormity of the challenge we face combating the increasing radicalisation of so many young Muslim men.

Inside many Muslims’ heads is a voice whispering: “Our faith is so pure and true, our civilizations lasted so long and ruled so many, our God was so potent: yet here we are in the modern world, backward and poor except where accidents of nature have blessed us, our rulers corrupt, our culture mocked or ignored, our people squabbling among themselves, or fleeing the homelands to work as taxi drivers and menials in the great glittering cities of the infidels, those homelands themselves part-stolen by the wretched Jews and Zionists. It’s all wrong, wrong, wrong! Grrrrr!!!”
(18) 2007-09-25 09:55:58
JamalA: Quote

Paul M & RezaV,

Have you noticed how shalom responded when points made at MPAC UK were challenged and his own points contradicted?

He resorted to personal attacks.

He attempted to smear anyone he disagrees with as "Zionist" or "Jewish", using Antisemitic canards.

He then descended into quoting the Old Testament wrt the concept of Israel being the 'money-changers in the Temple".

Finally, revealed his core beliefs. A strong adherence to the Koran in its denigration of any other faith and Islamist supremacy as a domination.

Indeed, an exercise in flushing-out the danger we all face.

One often feels sorry for those who cannot think freely outside of religious indoctrination.

In fact, Israel, the country he so despises, is successful BECAUSE it is more secular than fundamentally religious.
(19) 2007-09-25 10:49:51
JamalA: Quote

Isn't it amazing that I made my last post before seeing shalom's latest rant - and its EXACTLY as I predicted. Doh!
(20) 2007-09-25 10:51:10
shan: Quote

The winds of change are blowing throughout the world,the oppressors of today they think they can maintain their oppression forever.

but in the history of the world nothing is forever and those informing us israel has 200 nuclear bombs and those that attack will get whacked,are forgetting one thing two can play that game.

nuclear bombs are no longer exclusive to some nations only and it would be better for all to understand this.

2 billion people cannot be subjugated forever,no arab nation at the moment is led by people who were chosen by the people.

when the arabs get real leadership it shall be apparent for all to see that the timne has come for change.
(21) 2007-09-25 11:02:18
Paul M: Quote

Shalom - what a long and rather incoherent post. If it comforts you to think that a world of pure Islam is around the corner, good for you, but you need to square it with your belief at the same time that the Zionists and their American stooges are controlling everything.

Three questions:

1. Can you answer why you call yourself 'Shalom'? Clearly you are a Muslim, and good luck to you for that, but why did you at first pose as a Jew? This, as I suggests, runs counter to Islam's strict insistence on honesty.

2. When your glorious Islamic regimes (or regime) arise(s), can you tell us what fate awaits non Muslims? Would you impose on them the dhimmi status which (while being better than being gassed) means the non Muslim cannot have any weight in a court of law and that therefore any so called Muslim can attack or rob him with impunity? Surely equality before the law is better - and what MPAC is striving for?

3. Which regime in the world today - or in the recent past - comes closest to your ideal? Iran - where the Sunnis are oppressed and marginalised and where homosexuals are strung up in public? Taliban Afghanistan, where Shias were massacred and women punished for learning to read? Or do you have some other near paradise in mind? Libya, maybe, that shining beacon of human rights?

By the way, if you can answer without being rude or offensive it would be nice, but it is not essential if being crude makes you feel better.
(22) 2007-09-25 11:12:56
JamalA: Quote

Don't you just know when someone has lost the argument when they turn to personal insult and abuse because whatever they have has nowhere to go.

I am NOT the only poster who has referred to your inadequacies and so I share good company.

I would welcome the removal of ANY Islamaphobic or Antisemitic material.

If anything I have said is Islamphobic I apologise but believe I have been very careful to avoid it.

We can't say the same about YOU trying to avoid Antisemitic comments and disparaging of anyone who so easily destroys your argument.
(23) 2007-09-25 11:50:02
shan: Quote

look who,s talking about losing arguments and them making personal remarks.

look who hides behind a muslim sounding name but displays complete hatred for islam and muslims.
(24) 2007-09-25 11:56:13
JamalA: Quote

"Guess you lost the debate and your marbles - kiddo! "

"Please Miss! Please Miss! I won! I won! I won, didn't I Miss?"

"Yes shalom, we ALL won and you will get your sweetie. Now STOP doing that with your hands! Go and wash them!"

LOL!!!!
(25) 2007-09-25 12:07:31
JamalA: Quote

There gets to be a point where the debating and argumentative sophistication of posters diverges so far apart that further discussion is rendered an un-equal farce.

That point has been reached.

(BTW repetition of the sentiment of my responses may seem like flattery but its classical pacing and leading, I pace, I lead, you salivate! Its called Mind Control and you are Mine baby!)

LOL
(26) 2007-09-25 14:39:50
RezaV: Quote

There gets to be a point where the debating and argumentative sophistication of posters diverges so far apart that further discussion is rendered an un-equal farce.

That point has been reached.

(BTW repetition of the sentiment of my responses may seem like flattery but its classical pacing and leading, I pace, I lead, you salivate! Its called Mind Control and you are Mine baby!)

LOL
— JamalA


Agree with you JalaL

But wouldn’t be nice to see a few intelligent and rational Muslims contributing to these debates?

The name-calling and unfounded, bitter rants posted by ‘cartoon-cut-out-Islamists’ simply reinforce the negative Daily Mail caricature of ‘subversive’ British Muslims.
(27) 2007-09-25 15:41:56
you muppet: Quote

it seems that the zionnazies are trying to denigrate and move the discussion away from the topic again.

I don't think Iran wants a Nuclear weapon, but if they did have one as long as it pointed at Israel, I have no problem.

Infact that would be called Detente and may force Israel to stop behaving as a rogue state.

saying that I really can't stand Iranians, ever met one who didnt say they were persian? what a complex.
(28) 2007-09-25 15:45:07
Paul M: Quote

I find Shalom very difficult to read / understand. Shalom - I appreciate you are very angry, but it would be really helpful if you could calm down and articulate yourself a little better. What is 'Paul erM' supposed to add to the discussion? It's not even an insult.

Of course you are under no obligation to answer my questions, but I think we would all comprehend what you are trying to say if you would answer them, or at least one of them, since to my mind, given what I think you are saying, they are all germaine. So to repeat:

1. Why as a Muslim do you go by a Hebrew name?

2. What is the closest model in current or recent times to the kind of Islamic state to which you aspire?

3. What protection will there be for non Muslims in such a state?

I am trying to take you seriously, despite your general incoherence, so please do me the courtesy of answering the above, all of which seem sensible, non-leading questions.
(29) 2007-09-25 16:49:17
JamalA: Quote

RezaV said of shalom:-

"The name-calling and unfounded, bitter rants posted by ‘cartoon-cut-out-Islamists’ simply reinforce the negative Daily Mail caricature of ‘subversive’ British Muslims"

I see we just need to call your name shalom and you oblige.

Rant, abuse and spread a dominating, conquer-all philosophy reminiscent of 1930's German National Expansionism
(30) 2007-09-25 18:18:38
JamalA: Quote

"Himmler: "Muslims responded to the call of Muslim heads and joined our side because of their hatred of our joint Jewish-English-Bolshevik enemies, and because of their belief and respect for the one we place above all -- towards Fuhrer."

("HIMMLER WAS THEIR DEFENDER" translated from Serbian article of the period at website SVIJET)

""These Muslim volunteer units, called Hanjar (sword), were put in Waffen-SS units, fought Yugoslav partisans in Bosnia, and carried out police and security duties in Hungary. They participated in the massacre of civilians in Bosnia and volunteered to join in the hunt for Jews in Croatia..."
-- Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, Edition 1990, Volume 2, page 707"

"From Aleksa Djilas, The Nation That Wasn't. Appears in The Black Book of Bosnia, Nader Mousavizadeh, Ed., Basic Books, New York, 1996, p. 23.

The creation of a Bosnian Muslim S.S. division is a favorite theme of Serbian propaganda, however. Indeed, there was such a unit. The Nazis asked the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, el Husseini, to lend his support to the project. He accepted, visited Bosnia, and convinced some important Muslim leaders that a Muslim S.S. division would be in the interest of Islam. In spite of these and other propaganda efforts, only half of the expected 20,000 to 25,000 Muslims volunteered. The S.S. unit was nonetheless formed, named the "Handzar" (scimitar) division, and was brutal in the "cleansing" of Serbian regions in eastern Bosnia. But it never achieved the reputation of a good fighting unit, and failed to sell the idea of a Muslim Bosnia under a Nazi protectorate. "

shalom, who am I to determine whether these links are broken or a thread remains?
(31) 2007-09-25 19:35:55
RSD: Quote

Shalom, you are obviously hurt and angry. And to some extent as a convert from Judaism to Islam it is probably not surprising, I imagine you have had a hard time.
But you are also wrong, the Roma and Sinti have not disappeared through assimilation.They remain isolated and discriminated against. Travel through Eastern Europe and look for yourself. Ask the "Gypsies" why they seek asylum in UK and elsewhere.
As for the Judenrat they had little choice but to cooperate in the hope that some might survive. It is too easy to condemn them from our comfortable 21st century armchairs. I would have thought that you would have had some sympathy for their plight as they watched their hopes disappear. You overlook the fact that the very Jews who opposed Zionism composed the "Judenrat"s. They were mainly Assimilationists or Orthodox Separatists. There was much anger directed towards them by the post-war Zionists and far too much blame was awarded them.
Hecht is right, but as "honourable human behaviour" has not shown itself to be predominant in the world it hardly invalidates the existance of Israel.
As for getting rid of the Nazis in Germany, Austria, Italy, Bosnia etc, was this really achieved? The truth is that they simply sank back in the general population and bided their time. A few were punished, and that was about it. As for the Zionists being Nazis, this is an absurdity and simple as means of insulting Israelis. Nothing more. As you will know the Ba'ath Party is the last direct descendant of 1930's Fascism.
(32) 2007-09-25 20:43:00
JamalA: Quote

shalom, your Antisemitic spew is SO valuable.

What you have done is turn MPAC UK website into one where Antisemitism flourishes.

We can say it is encouraged by MPAC UK too becuase they have the option to remove it or keep it.

They choose to keep it and so that makes them complicit in its publication.

That is a great shame because I think the subjects raised by MPAC UK are great debating points.

But to you they are engine to promote your Antisemitic views.
(33) 2007-09-25 21:42:59
RSD: Quote

Shalom, Can you identify for me a government of a major industrial nation that has made clear that it seeks to eradicate the entire Muslim population in the world?
You do perhaps raise an interesting concept that Zionists "join hands" with nations that onec oppressed Jews. I assume therefore that you think they they should not forgive the past. As a consequence I assume therefore you believe that Zionists / Jews should only have relations with nations that have no history of denying them equality in law and opportunity. That therefore excludes the entirety of the Christian and Muslim world. That leaves Hindu and Buddhist Asia.
Muslim accounts of how well Jews and other minority religions were treated have about as much credibility as Southern White claims about how well Afro-Americans were treated. The dishonesty surrounding this issue remains a major issue for reconciliation.
Ahmednejad is playing a game and his performances are primarily directed at his constituency in Iran. His statements regarding Israel and the Holocaust are designed to offend on one hand and appeal to the prejudices of his supporters.
(34) 2007-09-26 11:04:14
you muppet: Quote

JamalA: here we go again, I want Mpac to do this, I want mpac to do that, go ask the Jewish Security Trust to stop being so Islamophobic and then come here. you across like a 14 year old brat. let me guess, 'its not fair!'

Seems like you got a fetish for Muslims. Go else where and play with your little IDF dollies.
(35) 2007-09-26 11:14:28
shan: Quote

RSD shows his real hatred of islam by saying jews in muslim land were like blacks in white america in the south.

it is news for all of us and decent jews that muslims bought and sold jews as animals in a farm.

it is news to me that jews were beaten and killed with impunity and made to work like animals in fields and made to live in barns.

it is news to me that muslims took jewish women bny force and raped them all their life with impunity.

RSD you in your hatred of muslims have shown self to be a lying delusional zionist who will stop at nothing to invent lies.

Jews found safety and refuge in muslim lands,they were not enslaved and treated like animals,in future all comments by your self shall be treated with uttter disdain as you have attempted to smear the jews of the world with being ungrateful to their helpers.
(36) 2007-09-26 12:35:53
RSD: Quote

Back to the topic. Iran over the last few decades has sought to destabilise further a region that is already unstable. One has to give them credit that they have achieved it with considerable finesse. The Iranians could have withheld supplies of weapons into Iraq following the invasion and remained neutral, but it did not. The consequence has been that Iraq's instability has prevented the US / UK withdrawing, the creation of stable government and the deaths of many tens of thousands of Iraqis. To Iran's benefit it is now been presented as a possible broker for peace. Similar events have happened in Palestine and Lebanon, Iran has supplied finances and weapons to the forces opposed to peace, and the consequence has been the deaths of Lebanese and Palestinians. And again Iran positions itself as "peace maker".
Iran in essence is little better than a protection racketeer who sends out his thugs to beat you up, and then offers to protect you from them if you pay a fee.
The Iranians are buying a place at the top table through the deaths of the very Muslims they claim to be championing. They have sought to appeal to the basest of instincts through extreme sectarianism cloaked as scholarship, and they are very clever at this indeed.
But this activity is not in the interests of people anywhere, except the small number that control Iran. Iran is now having to be very careful that it does not overplay its hand and bring on an attack by either US / UK coalition or Israel. An attack by Israel would be preferable for the Iranians because they could use it to garner more status. I would suggest that this recent Israeli raid into Syria is less a dry-run, and more a "gentle" reminder that the IAF can reach out to Iran if Iran oversteps the mark. The IAF demonstrated that it can penetrate the recently installed anti-aircraft defenses the Syrians bought from Russia.
None of us know how the Iran leadership reacted to this attack, but we can be certain that they will be giving it very serious thought.
(37) 2007-09-27 20:41:29
The author or administrator has closed this item for comments.
 
Media Workshops

Search MPACUK.org

Recommended Books