I agree wid sista Yvonne how can we co-operate with police when they are shooting us? shall i turn my cheek so they can shoot both sides of my face?

Plus I think your quote is inaccuare it relates to muslims living under a muslim ruler. If you were to apply that ruling to muslims in non muslims lands-it could lead to muslims co-operating with zionist rulers so that they avoid anarchy?

Lets clear things up - Yvonne Ridly is no spookeswoman for the muslim community, neither are the Respect party. They are obviously trying to exploit the situation to their advantage. The sooner the party disbands the better.

I want Islam Channel to sack Yvonne Ridley, she is the wrong kind of influence young muslims need.

Why are they reporting Yvonne Ridley. Why do they take notice - to ridicule the muslim community even more. With representatives like her, you'll look like a laughing stock.

And remember, everyone wants to get rid of terrorist, because it might be you next time targeted by them. It might be your sister that is innocently targeted.

Commander Steve Allen, who heads territorial policing, said: "What is more likely to deliver effective police and community and responses to situations like this?

"Is it when we talk to each other, when we spend time trying to understand each other's perspective or is it when we call for complete disengagement?

"I'm sure your listeners will have a view on that."

He added: "Society has to trust us to make decisions based on sometimes less than perfect information.

"The best interests of the community always lies in preventing acts of terrorism, and we have to make those difficult decisions about when to act and when not to act.

"Our view and our job is always to do that job alongside and in engagement with the people for whom we work, i.e. the communities of London.

I do not agree with Yvonne, but why are MPAC running to disagree with her? This is not right. This is far too public a stand for MPAC to take against a Muslim Leader ..and for what purpose?

It strikes me that the response has been largely inappropriate given what we know, or rather don't know.
Had the police conducted the same type of raid against Irish Republicans suspecting that they were in possession of a large bomb, then we would have said "Absolutely right, we need the police to be proactive to protect us, and we accept that sometimes they may get it wrong."
If, heavan forbid, it had been a BNP terrorist cell we would expected the police to be as tough as nails with the suspects, and we would not have had any sympathy for them.
To date we know nothing of why the police suspected that there was a real threat to society posed by these two brothers. Given the numbers of officers involved it certainly wasn't some speculative action, and the cost must have been astronomical.
I would suggest therefore that we hold fire until such times as we know more. Had the two men been in possession of a bomb with the intention of repeating 7/7, I think we would want the police to take action to ensure that our Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist and Atheist neighbours would not be hurt.
It is very unfortunate that at the moment the real threat to public safety comes from misguided Muslims. This has much to do with poor leadership. Up to 10 years ago the threat was from the Irish community, insofar as the IRA moved amongst them. The Irish community had to cope with the embarrassment of the association, even though the vast majority had no association with terrorism.
Finally spare a small thought for the police involved in this action. Given their state of preparedness, many amongst them must have genuinely feared that there was a very high risk of them being hurt or killed. If I had been amongst them I too would have been scared. It is little wonder then that they may have overeacted at some point shooting one of the men.
But for the grace of God, go we all.

Ridley really is the biggest muslim around, aint she just so committed.

What a numpty!

Salams

Sister Yvonne Ridley's comments are obviously in the same vain as the rest of the RESPECT party: Rant And Rave politics.

What else do you expect when you've been taken in by the Socialist Worker Party's dogma?

This is obviously a publicity gimmick from an increasingly desperate RESPECT party.

Constructive and intelligent criticism befitting the teachings of Islam has to be the way forward.

Of course non-cooperation is absolutely the right way to go. If you cooperate with the police and grass on someone, chances are that he might be shot dead, as De Menezes and the latest incident clearly showed. Therefore it's best not to co-operate under the circumstances. This is the core principle of non-violent resistance. This is the principle that Mahatma Gandhi chose. Was he wrong?

I find it stunning that MPAC on the one hand, are telling Muslims to rise up and resist this oppression by the state authorities against the Muslim community, but then are saying that we should cooperate with the police, putting the lives of innocent Muslims in danger and more hysterical Islamophobia against our community. No - the time for cooperation is over. It's got nothing to do with whether or not Respect or calling for it. I wish our so-called Muslim leaders had the guts to say this a long time ago.

can someone ban banari - he is a zionist pretending to be a human!

regardless of peoples views on what Sister Yvonne said, it is not for Mpac to respond. Her frustration is understandable as the police seem to be victimising muslim communities. We should also understand that the inteligence agencies and police have a responsibility to protect this country from any attack. The responsibility of the police should be to make the muslim community aware of the criteria for suspicion, and the level of intelligence received. In this current climate to some it feels like victimisation of young muslim men, who may be 'religious', wear 'middle eastern' clothes and be quite. Untill the police take the concerns of the Muslim community seriously maybe an idea should be to withdraw cooperation for a time until our grievences are taken seriously. This action may pressure the police into developing a policy which will actively engage our communities and go someway into making us feel less vicitimised. Yvonne Ridley is not a spoke person for every muslim, but she does speak for some people, her opinion is just an opinion and not a fatwa, or legally binding verdict, but her opinion should be heard and respected.

may be anarchy will result in change.. much needed change!!!

there is only so far you can be rational humans - then survival instinct take palce - look at palestine!!

MPAC you are right but it's very difficult to trust an institution that has acknowledged to be racist couple this with the "accidental" shootings in Forest Gate and that of poor Jean Charles De Menezes throw up very important questions about police procedure and that of intelligence. Yes the police have a difficult line to walk but the public cannot accept innocent people being shot and then the shooting being covered up as was witnessed by all with the lies eminating from police sources after the shooting. When the police take training from tehe Israelis you know this country is turning into a fascist police state under our very feet.

Lets remember Muslims need police to protect them !

the respect party has nothing to do with the remarks of Yvonne as she is speaking as a Muslim first, unlike the cowardly people who say they represent the Muslims.
why would any sane person cooperate with an authority which is clearly victimising and creating a climate of fear.
I have heard some of Yvonnes other comments and can say that she has real Iman and only utters what her belief in Allah and the prophet of Alah (pbuh) stand for, which is steadfastness and justice.

SalamAre MPAC now sensoring people who criticise them for advertising for the Met on their website??Please post my original comments as well as this or are you guys hypocrites on top of everything else???



MODERATOR: [LINK REMOVED]

There should be full cooperation with the police. It’s a law of the country you are living in and you should abide by it.

But if you feel like I do that the police are doing wrong then demand answers and changes. Not from the police directly but to those who give the orders and make the rules for the police. And that is the current party in power (labour) who are pushing through Acts through Parliament and who’s policy and decisions that has created this problem.
Demand changes and go about making change in the right democratic way, the way MPAC suggest.

I agree with sister ridley, the police are taking it too far shooting a man and for what, not too long ago you had the Jean Charles de Menezes case where unarmed brazilian was shot many times including one gun having its whole clip emptied into him, The brazilian autorities and relatives where outraged and critiziced the police and there behaviour MPAC obviously have the opposite stance when its a muslim victim!

I am inclined to agree with Bilal Patel and others who support the view taken by sister Yvonne Ridley. People who critisize her have misunderstood what she is saying.She is NOT saying we should become anti-Police.I think her startegy can work if we Muslims unite and give the message to the Police that we are not prepared to be oppressed by them. Dialogues with the Police have been going on for years and have yielded nothing except more tyranny. Sister Yvonne's strategy is refreshing and needs to result in some action now.Anyone there willing to set up a group etc? Count me in.

I support sister Y's comments.

I was at the Newham Respect meeting in Forest Gate, and i think that the BBC took Yyonne Ridley's comments out of context,

But i'm proud that Newham Respect and others are organising a Demo this Sunday 11th June at 2.30pm outside Forest gate Police station

Muslims were victim of Paki-bashing in the past and now they are victim of terrorism. Allah knows what is going to happen in the future.

Excellent points by MPAC.

Non cooperation is not the way, and the way to change it through democratic processes. Muslims as a whole, and leaders in particular, rely on empty rhetoric rather than real action.

Keep up the good work, MPAC.

Quote from a politician " Change occurs only when people get Angry", under the freedom of speech banner, which allows all to criticise a perfect religion, why should Sister Yvonne Ridleys word erk the MPAUCKC or the Police.

This brave and fearless woman is worth her weight in gold, and if we had more people who were as honest and as open as the sister, Muslim would not be in the dilema they are in.The PM, the Home Office and the Police would think twice, and ensure that there was "real Intel" or was it the "Fake Sheikh" again providing the tip off?

Sister Yvonne should be the next Prime Minister, she has the intelligence, understanding, commitments and integrity and resilience, and gets our vote.

Those "Men" in Frocks who criticise Yvonne may do well to take a leaf out of the sisters book, or have they taken up wearing the Nikab

i've heard the demo this sunday has been postponed to a later date, but Newham Respect can be contacted on 0208 548 4647

I completely agree we should not cooperation with the police.When my house gets burgled I will NOT call them.When those racist youths at the bottom of my road throw a brick through my window I will NOT call them.When my car radio gets stolen I will NOT call them.I think this is definitely the way forward...Get real people!!

Non-cooperation is NOT the way. Yvonne Ridley's comments were incredibly irresponsible. We should all be cooperating now more than ever.
If a lack of mutual understanding and trust is an issue right now (and it clearly is), then how is not cooperating - which must entail not communicating - going to help?
Things are only going to get better if we talk with and help each other more.

Yet lets cooperate with them, let them use taxpayers money and let them shoot an innocent person AGAIN!!!! When are we going to learn from our mistakes, has it helped cooperating with them....the answer is NO!!!!!

What is incredibly irresponsible is the sight of 'moderate' Muslims brown-nosing the very people oppressing their community. They need the deep and sincere approval of their white masters. It's about time they were cast aside for people who have the guts to say 'never again'.

Unfortunately this was a bungled police operation, but let's not forget the police were trying to stop terrorism, two brothers locked up for a few days and one person shot and injured, how does it compare to 52 people murdered on the tube? The police are responding to that, Ridleys comments are very typical of her, they serve little purpose apart from rabble rousing.

Alhamdolilah
the "Brothers" have been cleared, so Sister Yvonne Ridley was RIGHT, well done Yvonne. So far so good for non co-operation

This is an especially hard call to make in many repects. There are 2 & many more sets of complete lunatics running amok in the world. The USA neocons ARE capable of any kind of Grand Strategy of Tension action to jusitfy their wars/ propping up of the petrodollar. This was why when a pro Bin Laden Jihadi boasted about his military training on the Sept 28th 2002 anti Iraq war demo, I did not report this matter (to MI5) until immediately AFTER the 7/7/05 bombings (This is after all my country & I do not wish to see mad freaks ripping it to pieces any more than I want other such to do so with Iran etc). Even today I wonder if this was the right thing to have done when I look at the mad plotting of the neocons. The issue is WHO can you trust? So many puppets on so many strings. But there is no evading such, if we have knowledge of something like 7/7/05 (that is not concocted) it IS on balance advisable to report this. WHEN to make the decision, the call, THIS the individual is stuck with. The reality is we are caught morally either way. But that is the price we pay for being human. For in the contempory era, NO-ONE has a monopoly on the apocalyptic.

To Ishaq...why what great purpose have the police served you when a brick was thrown thru your window anyway??? We have been victims of hate crimes and racism in London many times over and everytime we called the police they didnt do anything at all and it seemed they weren't interested in taking up the case and many times we've been told "we are too busy to come over and try to evaluate your complaint"..so SCREW THEM! When someone scratched National Front on our car a few years ago and smashed the windows...the police came to take a look, took the car over to brush it for 'forensic evidence' and returned it saying that they found absolutely nothing...funnily enough my mother who was cleaning the car, discovered 2 torn cinema tickets a cigarette stub...funny how their expert forensic team missed that...or should I attribute it to the dirty cops themselves having taken our car for a joyride for the weekend with their friends??? Justice is never served anyway unless you are a Muslim and these days it seems without having evven committed a crime...the UK under the Blair government has turned into a real shitty place to live and the corrupt govt itself is perpetrating a regime similar to Nazism where it has turned into a police state. Co-operation with them is useless. Kudos to Yvonne Ridley for telling it how it is...im all for reform thru media control, education dialogue etc...but when ppl question what about when Muslims blow up so and so...I would like to remind them that someone else is giving the action and some extremists or frustrated individuals give the reaction and quite frankly I dont blame them anymore...co-operation has got us zilch just more humiliation heartache and pain..next it could be YOU being targeted stop being so naive wake up and refuse to co-operate until justice is served and our demands are met...it is in our hands to empower and to what extent empower our oppressors. Use it well.

Ingratiating attitude towards the oppressors never helps the oppressed although they believe that it does and that is why they keep sucking up to them. When your house gets burgled or you are assaulted and you report it to the police, this is what will happen. They will give you a crime number and in most cases will not even visit you or the scene of crime. They will not look for the perpetrator/s but will get some one later on in the police cell to admit your crime to be taken into consideration (tic) and this way the crime will be solved as positive and the statistics will show how effective the police are. The story is of course different if the complainant is white and middle class. Go on open your eyes to reality and don't bury your head in the sand. The police should be impartial but show me the evidence. They traumatised the two brothers and their family because they were Muslim. Would they do that to a white family? Of course not, because according to police ethics the principle of 'reasonable ground to believe' would be applied and in this case there wasn't any.

I think MPAC have lost a lot of credibility with regards to their stance on this issue. The quote above by imam malik is completely irrelevant.